H12SSL-I Stuck at "bmc initiating"

[RageBone]

, considering that you can't replace or obtain the IC's yourself,

That is not what i said.
If i had them, i could replace them on my SSL here.
I don't know the manufacturer, or the model. Searches for the writing on them have not been successful so far.
So those ICs could be available, i just don't know it yet.

I was saying that other experiences with similar ICs from phones and laptops do not bode well.
Those usually are not easily available and can even be under NDA.
The keyword being "usually".
I would not be surprised if that is the case here as well.

I also did not say that SM denies RMAs.
This one specific case i got handed to me got denied because there was strong visible scratching on the board around a screw-hole close to those 3 ICs.
There were pictures exchanged in the conversation with SM that i think were clearly showing that.

I find myself to be very conflicted with this matter.
Because if i were to break it, it is clearly my fault, no discussion about that.
But at what point is it too easy to break?
Is that gona become the default reasoning?
What if those ICs happen to die by them-self after a while?
Is that gona be blamed on me by default?
It is honestly unlikely that they just fail by themselves, but it is not impossible.
Manufacturing defects happen and there is a hole supply chain in the way where someone can **** up, touch it the wrong way and somehow break it.
Could i be getting a DOA and be blamed for breaking one of those ICs?

My perspective on the repair of such damage simple.
It is voltage-regulation, one of the most common and so to speak, easy to fix problems.

What can become a problem: Further damage through a catastrophic failure of the voltage regulator.
In my case on the DSi, the Aspeed AST2600 is surely dead and replacing that is still doable, but a bigger ordeal then just replacing that 6 ball IC.

And then we have the issue of replacement parts.
I can luckily buy the BMC, just not everywhere or at low cost so to speak. Minimum order quantity were 5 at 75$ a piece from a single supplyer.
If i could get those regulator ICs, that'd be great.

Another option of course is replacing those with something else compatible.
Just what? A bit of reverse engineering is required for that in the future i guess.

 

[Debtor8100]

That is not what i said.
If i had them, i could replace them on my SSL here.
I don't know the manufacturer, or the model. Searches for the writing on them have not been successful so far.
So those ICs could be available, i just don't know it yet.

I was saying that other experiences with similar ICs from phones and laptops do not bode well.
Those usually are not easily available and can even be under NDA.
The keyword being "usually".
I would not be surprised if that is the case here as well.

Ok I see, sorry for the misunderstanding on my part

I find myself to be very conflicted with this matter.
Because if i were to break it, it is clearly my fault, no discussion about that.
But at what point is it too easy to break?
Is that gona become the default reasoning?
What if those ICs happen to die by them-self after a while?
Is that gona be blamed on me by default?
It is honestly unlikely that they just fail by themselves, but it is not impossible.
Manufacturing defects happen and there is a hole supply chain in the way where someone can **** up, touch it the wrong way and somehow break it.
Could i be getting a DOA and be blamed for breaking one of those ICs?

My perspective on the repair of such damage simple.
It is voltage-regulation, one of the most common and so to speak, easy to fix problems.

This was exactly my point here. A good comparison in my opinion should be phone screens. They are vulnerable, but rarely are there cases that it is unclear who is at fault when the screens are broken. This is because the screens actually can take some damage, but when the treshold is broken user just has to admit fault.

Here lies the problem: What is that actual treshold with these ICs? If they can be broken so easily that it isn't even noticeable during install, is the desing really good enough? If the parts are this fragile they should be easier to just swap and the parts should be public knowledge, in my opinion. That or SM should be more understanding about these issues.

Personally I wouldn't even go as far as to wonder if the parts could die by themselves or during shipment. Those are edge cases. I would be more worried about the installations. The boards are bought to be installed, as phone screens are to be used. Are the boards durable enough to survive a normal usecase? I think this is cutting it way too close.

 

[ocfguy]

Update: I requested an RMA with Supermicro and they replaced my board.

I did some research and it seems like BMC issues are not rare on the H12SSL-i. Many reports on Chinese tech forums about BMC failures on H12 series mobos, mostly H12SSL:

超微H12SSL-i这块板子BMC暴毙问题还有吗? - 电脑讨论(新) - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验

超微H12SSL-i这块板子BMC暴毙问题还有吗?,之前在论坛看到几例BMC出问题的,这板子还能买吗ATX或者E-ATX 单路 ROME主板 也没几个选择 , asrock的romed8-2t感觉有点贵,5000左右,我也用不上万兆电口================ ...,电脑讨论(新),讨论区-生活与技术的讨论 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验

chiphell.com

 

[joet]

I'm both glad and sad I found this thread - it confirmed what I'd done to my H12SSL and saved me any more wasted diagnostic time, but ouch what a bad idea to put such delicate components so close to the edge of the board where one clumsy card insertion could scrape them off.

Does anyone know whether putting Kapton tape over those components would protect them mechanically without causing overheating issues?

 

[RageBone]

Does anyone know whether putting Kapton tape over those components would protect them mechanically without causing overheating issues?

i don't think Kapton tape is enough.
My preference would be something that can take away the "impact-force".
So, mabe a big blob of silicon / conformal coating?
Or have the chips encased in resin / plastic.
But in all of those cases, cooling of those ICs becomes a question.
It could not be a problem, but it could also very well become a problem.
Just because something is low power doesn't mean that it isn't running "hot"

 

[RolloZ170]

Does anyone know whether putting Kapton tape over those components would protect them mechanically without causing overheating issues?

now, knowing the problem you can make a little sheet of cardboard as a temporäry protector.
but is can still not follow what the problem is:
SP3/TR4: let's tackle it, 4094 pins to bent...

 

[nasbdh9]

None of the dozen or so H12SSL users I know have escaped this BMC problem, the motherboards are bound to have BMC failures after running for a while, SM should recall them...

 

[RolloZ170]

the motherboards are bound to have BMC failures after running for a while, SM should recall them...

they do if they found a design failure like SM has done with the X11DPi-N(T) VRM bug.
i was talking about mechanical damage by inserting a PCIe card.
the BMC failure can a result of overheating (BMC voltage regs) or FW issue, X12 and H12 are all RoT Firmware.

 

[custom90gt]

I wish I would have read this topic before purchasing a used H12SSL-I instead of a new one. My exact thought was "I'll buy it used to save $100 since SM makes such reliable boards" lol

 

[RolloZ170]

My exact thought was "I'll buy it used to save $100 since SM makes such reliable boards" lol

half of the issues are after BMC FW update. before missing sensor data for some reason.
NEW( ) china(ebay) H12SSL maybe have other/strange Firmware ?
U6 runs hot, but the 10G heatsink is hot too, even in standby (no active FANs)

 

[custom90gt]

half of the issues are after BMC FW update. before missing sensor data for some reason.
NEW( ) china(ebay) H12SSL maybe have other/strange Firmware ?
U6 runs hot, but the 10G heatsink is hot too, even in standby (no active FANs)

I did order my used MB from Amazon. I'm contemplating returning it and getting a new one so I am at least covered under warranty for a bit. The -I variant doesn't have 10GB right? Dunno if that makes any difference in the BCM failures.

 

[RolloZ170]

I did order my used MB from Amazon.

used: warehouse-deals ? got several supermicro and ASUS C621e sage in horrible condition, bent pins etc.
the advantage is: you can return even a damaged board to AZ.

 

[custom90gt]

used: warehouse-deals ? got several supermicro and ASUS C621e sage in horrible condition, bent pins etc.
the advantage is: you can return even a damaged board to AZ.

Sadly through a 3d party, VPCI. We will see how much difficulty I have to go through to return it.

 

[RageBone]

I did order my used MB from Amazon. I'm contemplating returning it and getting a new one so I am at least covered under warranty for a bit. The -I variant doesn't have 10GB right? Dunno if that makes any difference in the BCM failures.

10GBE (T in the name) should not have any impact on the risk of you killing the Voltage-Regulators.
To call them BMC Failures is a bit misleading.
At least all cases i know of were caused by the owner.

 

[RolloZ170]

that picture is sadly not good enough, to really make it out.
But U4 looks uniform and fine, U6 does not look uniform but with a bit of dust / grime, i think that one might still be ok.

U5 is in my opinion very likely dead and splintered.
Those are bare unprotected silicon wafer chips on a few solder-balls tasked with converting voltages for the BMC from 3.3VSB, called Buck-Converter.

If one of those voltages is missing,the BMC can't fulfill its job and to me, that it still can blink is luck.
I have a H12DSi with which that happened, but it killed the BMC by giving it 3.3V instead.

You can make sure of what i say by measuring the black inductors of the Buck-converters.
i have marked all three of them and where you can measure the voltage in this picture.
Please measure the voltages on all 3 and i hope for you that they all have some voltage on them.
I suspect the middle one for U5 to measure 0V.

this P/N is TPS62088YFPR

 

[hmw]

Ugh - *just* got hit by this. I installed a NIC card and lo and behold - system would not boot. The LE1 LED flashes and turns off. It stays lit when power is applied. But there's no sign of life from the LEDM1 BMC LED. Booting produces nothing, system turns 'on' in the sense the fans power up but no output from the onboard VGA.

Looks like U4 might have had some scrapes and a damaged edge. For those who sent this motherboard back to Supermicro - how much did it cost to repair?




Keep in mind I've known of this thread and I have been careful when I put the new NIC card in - it is indeed amazing how fragile this board is !

 

[zolti]

Same problem. Install new 10g nic yesterday and then got no BMC hearbeat.

 

[RolloZ170]

can someone designe a 3D model of a U4-6 protector ? mounting with the MH1 hole shown on the picture and one or both of the heatsink holes of the Broadcom chip.
some grid holes in it for air circulation.

 

[hmw]

The motherboard was in a recommended SuperMicro chassis because I thought it would be better protected. And it didn't make any difference.

Will try to send it off for repairs (folks on the thread have commented how Supermicro refused to repair their motherboard) but don't really have much faith in SM. Even if repaired - the fact that this can happen at any time - is deeply concerning. In a homelab, folks often swap cards and generally are more hands on with the systems. Compared to the H12SSL/CS-826 that has been treated with kid gloves - my Dell R440s have been poked, prodded and even dropped - and they survived and are doing just fine

 

[ocfguy]

Ugh - *just* got hit by this. I installed a NIC card and lo and behold - system would not boot. The LE1 LED flashes and turns off. It stays lit when power is applied. But there's no sign of life from the LEDM1 BMC LED. Booting produces nothing, system turns 'on' in the sense the fans power up but no output from the onboard VGA.

Looks like U4 might have had some scrapes and a damaged edge. For those who sent this motherboard back to Supermicro - how much did it cost to repair?

View attachment 28212


Keep in mind I've known of this thread and I have been careful when I put the new NIC card in - it is indeed amazing how fragile this board is !

They replaced my board (out of warranty) for free, but obviously YMMV.