EU [EU-GER] FS: 19x NEW SSD Samsung PM9A3 3.84TB M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 — PLP — Endurance ~7 PBW // Shipping worldwide

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Navvie

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Nov 21, 2020
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The seller paid for postage/courier insurance. The seller says the drive was working when it was sent, the buyer says it didn't when it arrived. The buyer has returned the drive to the seller. It's now for the seller to refund the buyer and claim on the insurance.

Edit: FWIW, I agree about the packaging. From the photos it looks entirely inadequate for such an expensive M.2 SSD.
 
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Sable

Active Member
Oct 19, 2016
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So what's the deal here? You ship out a broken part and then claim insurance? Seems too easy to work.
 

Navvie

New Member
Nov 21, 2020
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So what's the deal here? You ship out a broken part and then claim insurance? Seems too easy to work.
I assume that is something the seller found out about before taking out the insurance. Or does the insurance only cover items being lost?
 

NablaSquaredG

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2020
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Or does the insurance only cover items being lost?
As there is no visible damage, you will have a hard time dealing with the insurance


German law is pretty clear on this matter:
In C2C transactions, the buyer assumes the shipping risk (Gefahrenübergang auf den Käufer bei Übergabe an den Versanddienstleister)
However, the seller is obliged to pack the goods properly. If he doesn't and there is damage because the goods were NOT packed properly, the seller is liable for the damages.

But the situation is difficult: The packaging is questionable (yes, it is! You can't send an M.2 SSD in an envelope where it is prone to bending!), but there is no visible damage.
It could be the case of random deterioration (zufällige Verschlechterung) or damage due to improper packaging.

I guess a court would have to rule on this case


As always: I am not a lawyer.
 
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Lennong

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Jun 8, 2017
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Additionally, in order to send the defective part back to you, please specify the way you want it sent to you and do send the funds for that accordingly. Otherwise, i will dispose of the drive no later than 7 days from now.

Ok. As no response has been given on seller actually taking the drive out of circulation (surprise) I have sent him a PM asking this:
Code:
Ok. How much for send back the drive? What alternatives do you have?  


1. I will take for granted that it still is in same condition as when you recieved it from me?


2. That is, its in one piece and nothing has been tampered with efter you receieved it from me?


3. Do you still have the package I sent it in to you? Are you able to utilize that?


Please respond to all questions in a numbered manner so any confusion can be avoided.

I will take another hit on the shipping back but I simply cant allow this seller to 'accidently' let the drive slip out in circulation again..
 

bryan_v

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Nov 5, 2021
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Ok. As no response has been given on seller actually taking the drive out of circulation (surprise) I have sent him a PM asking this:
Code:
Ok. How much for send back the drive? What alternatives do you have? 


1. I will take for granted that it still is in same condition as when you recieved it from me?


2. That is, its in one piece and nothing has been tampered with efter you receieved it from me?


3. Do you still have the package I sent it in to you? Are you able to utilize that?


Please respond to all questions in a numbered manner so any confusion can be avoided.

I will take another hit on the shipping back but I simply cant allow this seller to 'accidently' let the drive slip out in circulation again..
Ok this is just straight up bizarre. Can you please let the community know about the outcome of refund?

Thanks!
 

Lennong

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Jun 8, 2017
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Ok this is just straight up bizarre. Can you please let the community know about the outcome of refund?

Thanks!
Ofcourse I will. My first priority right now however is to secure that the drive doesn't get out in circulation again. He has already stated in this thread that I shall respond if I want it to be sent back to me. Obviously he has read my multiple requests of snap the drive in parts and let me verify it has been destroyed with a photo of it with serial shown. Apparantly he will not respond to that and the reason for that is for you all to speculate in..

So, I have now responded within his own time frame as for arrange for sending it back to me. This has now been done. Officially here. For all to see:
Additionally, in order to send the defective part back to you, please specify the way you want it sent to you and do send the funds for that accordingly. Otherwise, i will dispose of the drive no later than 7 days from now.
My very official response here (and within stated time frame per knorps request):
Ok. How much for send back the drive? What alternatives do you have?

1. I will take for granted that it still is in same condition as when you recieved it from me?

2. That is, its in one piece and nothing has been tampered with efter you receieved it from me?

3. Do you still have the package I sent it in to you? Are you able to utilize that?

Please respond to all questions in a numbered manner so any confusion can be avoided.
 

tjk

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Mar 3, 2013
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I had the same kind of weird belligerent conversation with knorps, specifically around attempting to use Western Union transact +1000 EUR worth of drives trans-atlantic, refusing any sort of transaction protection, with the only proof being that he had access to some ebay accounts with a number of positive transactions (which ironically mandates buyer protection). I was keeping it private to give him the benefit of the doubt, though hearing about this, I just want to mention it.
This was exactly my experience too. I offered to pay for an escrow service or have him put them on his eBay account and mark them up for me to cover the transaction fee's. Anything I suggested that would protect both the buyer and seller was refused, and this wasn't for just one drive.

I backed out, since when would a seller refuse a sale when the buyer was going to cover all the fee's that would protect both of us. His response was @Rand__ can swing by and pick them up if I didn't trust him.

Red flags, glad I didn't go fwd with any transactions.
 

bryan_v

Active Member
Nov 5, 2021
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Toronto, Ontario
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This was exactly my experience too. I offered to pay for an escrow service or have him put them on his eBay account and mark them up for me to cover the transaction fee's. Anything I suggested that would protect both the buyer and seller was refused, and this wasn't for just one drive.

I backed out, since when would a seller refuse a sale when the buyer was going to cover all the fee's that would protect both of us. His response was @Rand__ can swing by and pick them up if I didn't trust him.

Red flags, glad I didn't go fwd with any transactions.
Yea me too, which I thought was weird since @Rand__ was in Europe as well, so it would be just as bad, if not worse.

@Rand__ were you aware you were being offered up as escrow?
 

Rand__

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Mar 6, 2014
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Actually no, but we do live like 40 miles away (based on his Ebay location [confirmed by him]) and we discussed me picking up drives (for myself).
So it would not have been an issue (distance wise), but I have not been aware that there was a discussion involving me providing any services to anyone.
 

bryan_v

Active Member
Nov 5, 2021
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Actually no, but we do live like 40 miles away (based on his Ebay location [confirmed by him]) and we discussed me picking up drives (for myself).
So it would not have been an issue (distance wise), but I have not been aware that there was a discussion involving me providing any services to anyone.
Well that's mildly inappropriate then. Sorry you got dragged into it.

Yes you were being offered up as an escrow to pick up the drives, then charge one of us for the drives, and to most likely take the hit for any buyer protection claim either via PayPal or Stripe/Square.
 

Alex0220

Active Member
Feb 13, 2021
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Actually no, but we do live like 40 miles away (based on his Ebay location [confirmed by him]) and we discussed me picking up drives (for myself).
So it would not have been an issue (distance wise), but I have not been aware that there was a discussion involving me providing any services to anyone.
It was more than that. He told me he would ask you to give him my address. And if you do not, you'll be put into jail.
 

Alex0220

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Feb 13, 2021
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I hope you reported that to Patrick (not sure who he farmed out forum moderation to).
I've reported it using the "Report" button. knorps is just angry that I suspect him to sell some shady stuff in the forum.
 

Rand__

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Mar 6, 2014
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It was more than that. He told me he would ask you to give him my address. And if you do not, you'll be put into jail.
He mentioned that he provided my UserID(?) to the police to act as witness with the goal to get your address (which I actually dont have since we met in person and I have not kept the envelope of the IO shield you sent later).

And me being put in jail is quite unlikely in this case;) We are not talking about a felony here.
 
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knorps

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Feb 8, 2021
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Now that's a lot of speculation and slander from dudes not involved in this transaction. Sure it's easy piling on shit when you've got nothing to lose :)

He told me he would ask you to give him my address. And if you do not, you'll be put into jail.
Again, a lot of bending of the truth necessary here to make me look bad - in fact i have named @Rand__ as a witness in my criminal complaint, as i have no interest in personally knowing @Alex0220's address whatsoever. @Rand__ would be compelled by the police to testify against you - and if he doesn't: Erzwingungshaft – Wikipedia

In any case, @Lennong has bought from me before and was very satisfied, funny he wouldn't mention that now.


knorps is just angry that I suspect him to sell some shady stuff in the forum
Don't worry, i'm not angry - but i really love free money from dudes stupid enough to talk shit they can't prove about me in public, so i'm actually quite happy!

German law is pretty clear on this matter:
In C2C transactions, the buyer assumes the shipping risk
Exactly, unless:

there is damage because the goods were NOT packed properly, the seller is liable for the damages.
which is not the case here.

@Lennong misrepresented the state of the packaging in which the drive arrived (which i can prove btw, so actually he's guilty of threatening me AND fraud), and only so after i rejected his claim.

But @Lennong would have been free to satisfy his claim in civil court (instead of threatening me).

I have now responded within his own time frame as for arrange for sending it back to me. This has now been done. Officially here.
Indeed you have, after publicly ordering me to destroy the drive, which brings up the question if you are of sound mind and competent to conduct such business. Are you trying to create Schrödinger's SSD, which is destroyed and gone but you still want it back in one piece? :oops:



Also, @bryan_v - understandably you're unhappy, it's just too sweet a deal to have to pass up. Still, even though your requirements for a sale were inacceptable for me, that doesn't compel me to talk shit about you since it would just make me look immature. It's sad to see you go down that road, but here you are.

Anything I suggested that would protect both the buyer and seller was refused
Another false accusation, @tjk. You didn't offer anything of the sort - experienced sellers know that Paypal and ebay make money by siding with fraudulent buyers and ****ing over sellers.


Really, all i'm seeing here is a bunch of crybabies who like to hide behind straight up lies and preschooler style conduct, trying to tarnish my reputation. You're wasting your life trying to make others miserable, not that that's something uncommon in this industry, but it's fair to point out every once in a while. Your day of reckoning will come.
 
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