[Update: Seller Complaints Accumulating] HGST Ultrastar He10 - 10TB @ $129.95

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heromode

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Anyone know what kind of hours to expect from these HUH721010AL5200 (0F27352) HGST 10TB SAS3 12Gb/s 7K2 LFF - 100% Health - 512e HDD | eBay

thinking of adding some more when i rebuild my pools
Mechanically it's the same drive as all SAS or SATA 7200rpm 10TB Helium filled models (HUH721010****). Your best source for reliability would be the Backblaze Hard Drive Stats

The second H in HUH = Helium, so avoid drives starting with HUS, which are conventional air.

These drives are statistically the most reliable helium filled 8TB+ that exists in the world. So basically you just buy them at 15€ / TB or less, run a SMART long selftest on them, if they pass, you're good to go, if not, you return them. Nothing more to it than that.

Also remember to check with smartctl that the helium level is 100%:
Code:
smartctl -a /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_2YK9XX7D | grep Helium

22 Helium_Level            0x0023   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       100


3.5-INCH HELIUM PLATFORM DATA CENTER HARD DRIVES Datasheet to decode the specs from the model id:

2022-04-14 14.12.49 documents.westerndigital.com a46df460c37e.png

And finally (sorry) to answer your question, they are MTBF 2.5M hours (see specsheet)

EDIT: If they don't spin up when you receive them, they are probably not faulty. It's likely the P3 pin issue. To check see the SE/ISE Part# and see if your drive has the Power Disable Feature:

https://documents.westerndigital.co...h-brief-western-digital-power-disable-pin.pdf

If you don't check that PDF and return a drive that has the Power Disable Feature, WD officially considers you a Stupid Customer.
 
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wildpig1234

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at $10/TB, it's not a bad price, given the bigger capacity. It's too bad that they have the 4k format so they might not work with the older controllers
 
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antsh

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Is there a way to flash the firmware on these drives when they are behind a raid controller (LSI 9266 in my case), or do I need to put them on an HBA to flash them and put them back on the raid controller?
 
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heromode

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at $10/TB, it's not a bad price, given the bigger capacity. It's too bad that they have the 4k format so they might not work with the older controllers
True. Physically they are all 4k (4kn = 4k native) 512e = 512 emulated. You can reformat 512e to be 4kn, but not the other way around. (i think, don't quote me on this)
 
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heromode

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Is there a way to flash the firmware on these drives when they are behind a raid controller (LSI 9266 in my case), or do I need to put them on an HBA to flash them and put them back on the raid controller?
I believe you could flash them if your controller is in IT mode (passthrough to host)
 
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antsh

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Just to answer my own previous question, hugo will flash the drives even if they are part of an array in RAID mode on the 9266 in my case. They will drop off the array while they're being updated, so best not to have the filesystem mounted.
 
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heromode

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Just to answer my own previous question, hugo will flash the drives even if they are part of an array in RAID mode on the 9266 in my case. They will drop off the array while they're being updated, so best not to have the filesystem mounted.
HEHE. Flashing the firmware of your HDD with the filesystem mounted is some serious Alpha OG attitude :)
 
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heromode

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at $10/TB, it's not a bad price, given the bigger capacity. It's too bad that they have the 4k format so they might not work with the older controllers
Here is a (incomplete) template ebay search for every model from 8TB to 12TB. to leave out the 4kn versions, edit the two characters before the last two characters, ie remove 42 or n6 and replace with 52 and e6 :

repeat for SAS/SATA as per the screencap above

(huh721212ale600, huh721008ale600, huh721010ale600, huh721212ale604, huh721010ale604, huh721008ale604, huh721212aln600, huh721010aln600, huh721008aln600, huh721212ale604, huh721010aln604, huh721008aln604)

edit the search to the specs you're looking for, 4k/512, SAS, SATA, size, save the ebay search and activate email alerts on ebay, then sit back and watch until an offer hits

edit: the search lists has some errors in the size and generation code i think, but it's a start
edit2: You need to combine the model number codes from the he8, dc510, dc520 etc etc pdf's to create your ebay search:

https://documents.westerndigital.co...astar-sas-series/data-sheet-ultrastar-he8.pdf
https://documents.westerndigital.co...c500-series/data-sheet-ultrastar-dc-hc510.pdf
https://documents.westerndigital.co...c500-series/data-sheet-ultrastar-dc-hc520.pdf
 
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UhClem

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...
Also remember to check with smartctl that the helium level is 100%:
Code:
smartctl -a /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_2YK9XX7D | grep Helium

22 Helium_Level            0x0023   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       100
...
I thought this thread was about SAS drives ... what's the point of above?
 

heromode

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I thought this thread was about SAS drives ... what's the point of above?
all HUH drives are the same, SAS or SATA, there is no mechanical difference at all. No HDD manufacturer makes mechanically different SAS/SCSI drives anymore in the world today.

You should check the helium level on your HUH* SAS drives just like above

Again, there is no difference between the HGST SAS or SATA drives except for the controller board, which is removable by a few screws (that includes the connector). As i've explained in this thread, it is likely you could convert a SAS drive to a SATA drive by switching the PCB and copy the IC ROM contents over.
 
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heromode

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Pro-tip: just get a genuine LSI SAS9300-8i controller plus cables for both SAS and SATA, and you can focus on $/TB. Teaser image of my genuine controller + 8x SATA connectors, plus the SAS cable i'm waiting for from china:

(plus brand new Solarflare Flareon™ Ultra SFN7022F for 35€ from Polish Ebay dealer as additional teaser)
 

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pr1malr8ge

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All, Having a bit of an issue maybe some-one can help me..

First, running smartctl -a on any of these drive in Truenas does not give me any output like it does with sata drive. Below is the results.
Second, when I first got the drives I shut down my truenas machine and pulled all of my existing drives so as I could run some general tests on the new drives. With that I ran a smart long test that I decided not to wait for to be done before I shut the system back down. I figured the tests would continue after they booted back up when I started to replace a drive at a time in one of my vdevs. After I got all the drives in and a week later the drives were still reporting the smart test in progress. I started a new long test but it appears it just cued that. So I went about aborting the test. How ever the abort will only stop one and nothing I can do will stop both long tests. Well, just looked at -x and it's showing the scan is progressing so I'll leave it till tomorrow to verrify the latest long test completed.

Ontop of all this, I was trying to figure out how to see the helium levels mentioned in the above test but nothing ever shows with the grep and just a standard -a /dev/daXXX shows just the below code.
smartctl -a /dev/da2/0x5000cca26a9c4c54/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXXXX | grep Helium

Code:
:~ # smartctl -a /dev/da2/0x5000cca26a9c4c54/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXX
smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p14 amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

/dev/da2/0x5000cca26a9c4c54/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXXX: Unable to detect device type
Please specify device type with the -d option.

Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary




Third question, should I even consider upgrading the firmware on the drives since they are now in an active pool?

Code:
 # smartctl -a /dev/da2
smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p14 amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Vendor:               HGST
Product:              HUH721010AL42C0
Revision:             A3Z4
Compliance:           SPC-4
User Capacity:        10,000,831,348,736 bytes [10.0 TB]
Logical block size:   4096 bytes
LU is fully provisioned
Rotation Rate:        7200 rpm
Form Factor:          3.5 inches
Logical Unit id:      0x5000cca26a9c4c54
Serial number:        XXXXXXX
Device type:          disk
Transport protocol:   SAS (SPL-3)
Local Time is:        Sat Apr 16 16:39:38 2022 CDT
SMART support is:     Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is:     Enabled
Temperature Warning:  Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Health Status: OK

Grown defects during certification <not available>
Total blocks reassigned during format <not available>
Total new blocks reassigned <not available>
Power on minutes since format <not available>
Current Drive Temperature:     32 C
Drive Trip Temperature:        85 C

Accumulated power on time, hours:minutes 28422:17
Manufactured in week 12 of year 2018
Specified cycle count over device lifetime:  50000
Accumulated start-stop cycles:  16
Specified load-unload count over device lifetime:  600000
Accumulated load-unload cycles:  1199
Elements in grown defect list: 0

Vendor (Seagate Cache) information
  Blocks sent to initiator = 5534189914947584

Error counter log:
           Errors Corrected by           Total   Correction     Gigabytes    Total
               ECC          rereads/    errors   algorithm      processed    uncorrected
           fast | delayed   rewrites  corrected  invocations   [10^9 bytes]  errors
read:          0        3         0         3    3639628      42621.389           0
write:         0        0         0         0     598221     145566.083           0
verify:        0        0         0         0      47055          0.000           0

Non-medium error count:        0

SMART Self-test log
Num  Test              Status                 segment  LifeTime  LBA_first_err [SK ASC ASQ]
     Description                              number   (hours)
# 1  Background long   Aborted (by user command)   -   28417                 - [-   -    -]
# 2  Background long   Self test in progress ...   -     NOW                 - [-   -    -]
# 3  Background short  Completed                   -   28250                 - [-   -    -]

Long (extended) Self-test duration: 65535 seconds [1092.2 minutes]
Code:
# smartctl -x /dev/da2
smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p14 amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Vendor:               HGST
Product:              HUH721010AL42C0
Revision:             A3Z4
Compliance:           SPC-4
User Capacity:        10,000,831,348,736 bytes [10.0 TB]
Logical block size:   4096 bytes
LU is fully provisioned
Rotation Rate:        7200 rpm
Form Factor:          3.5 inches
Logical Unit id:      0x5000cca26a9c4c54
Serial number:       XXXXX
Device type:          disk
Transport protocol:   SAS (SPL-3)
Local Time is:        Sat Apr 16 16:48:02 2022 CDT
SMART support is:     Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is:     Enabled
Temperature Warning:  Enabled
Read Cache is:        Enabled
Writeback Cache is:   Disabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Health Status: OK

Grown defects during certification <not available>
Total blocks reassigned during format <not available>
Total new blocks reassigned <not available>
Power on minutes since format <not available>
Current Drive Temperature:     32 C
Drive Trip Temperature:        85 C

Manufactured in week 12 of year 2018
Specified cycle count over device lifetime:  50000
Accumulated start-stop cycles:  16
Specified load-unload count over device lifetime:  600000
Accumulated load-unload cycles:  1199
Elements in grown defect list: 0

Vendor (Seagate Cache) information
  Blocks sent to initiator = 5534258198216704

Error counter log:
           Errors Corrected by           Total   Correction     Gigabytes    Total
               ECC          rereads/    errors   algorithm      processed    uncorrected
           fast | delayed   rewrites  corrected  invocations   [10^9 bytes]  errors
read:          0        3         0         3    3639628      42621.389           0
write:         0        0         0         0     598258     145566.152           0
verify:        0        0         0         0      47055          0.000           0

Non-medium error count:        0

SMART Self-test log
Num  Test              Status                 segment  LifeTime  LBA_first_err [SK ASC ASQ]
     Description                              number   (hours)
# 1  Background long   Aborted (by user command)   -   28417                 - [-   -    -]
# 2  Background long   Self test in progress ...   -     NOW                 - [-   -    -]
# 3  Background short  Completed                   -   28250                 - [-   -    -]

Long (extended) Self-test duration: 65535 seconds [1092.2 minutes]

Background scan results log
  Status: scan is active
    Accumulated power on time, hours:minutes 28422:25 [1705345 minutes]
    Number of background scans performed: 168,  scan progress: 13.13%
    Number of background medium scans performed: 168

Protocol Specific port log page for SAS SSP
relative target port id = 1
  generation code = 2
  number of phys = 1
  phy identifier = 0
    attached device type: expander device
    attached reason: SMP phy control function
    reason: unknown
    negotiated logical link rate: phy enabled; 12 Gbps
    attached initiator port: ssp=0 stp=0 smp=0
    attached target port: ssp=0 stp=0 smp=1
    SAS address = 0x5000cca26a9c4c55
    attached SAS address = 0x500304801eec03bf
    attached phy identifier = 0
    Invalid DWORD count = 0
    Running disparity error count = 0
    Loss of DWORD synchronization = 0
    Phy reset problem = 0
    Phy event descriptors:
     Invalid word count: 0
     Running disparity error count: 0
     Loss of dword synchronization count: 0
     Phy reset problem count: 0
relative target port id = 2
  generation code = 2
  number of phys = 1
  phy identifier = 1
    attached device type: no device attached
    attached reason: unknown
    reason: power on
    negotiated logical link rate: phy enabled; unknown
    attached initiator port: ssp=0 stp=0 smp=0
    attached target port: ssp=0 stp=0 smp=0
    SAS address = 0x5000cca26a9c4c56
    attached SAS address = 0x0
    attached phy identifier = 0
    Invalid DWORD count = 0
    Running disparity error count = 0
    Loss of DWORD synchronization = 0
    Phy reset problem = 0
    Phy event descriptors:
     Invalid word count: 0
     Running disparity error count: 0
     Loss of dword synchronization count: 0
     Phy reset problem count: 0
 
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heromode

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Ontop of all this, I was trying to figure out how to see the helium levels mentioned in the above test but nothing ever shows with the grep and just a standard -a /dev/daXXX shows just the below code.
smartctl -a /dev/da2/0x5000cca26a9c4c54/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXXXX | grep Helium

Code:
:~ # smartctl -a /dev/da2/0x5000cca26a9c4c54/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXX
smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p14 amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

/dev/da2/0x5000cca26a9c4c54/scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXXX: Unable to detect device type
Please specify device type with the -d option.

Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary
Hi, i used the 'scsi-SATA_HGST_HUH721010AL_XXXXXXX' just as an example, each drive has a slightly different code. Find your drive in /dev/disk/by-id/ ( ls -la /dev/disk/by-id/ )

^^ edit sorry, you're on freebsd, but just find your drive wherever it is in BSD, every drive has a unique ending. Use grep with capital H in Helium.

or alternatively just run lsblk, and identify your drive there.

the helium level should show on any HUH* drive. It is under the 'Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:'
I admit i've never run it on a SAS drive, but should be there too by all logic.

oh yeah, u need to use capital H on helium.

Here is my Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds output as reference:

Code:
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   100   100   016    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0005   132   132   054    Pre-fail  Offline      -       103
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   154   154   024    Pre-fail  Always       -       446 (Average 408)
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000b   100   100   067    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0005   128   128   020    Pre-fail  Offline      -       18
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       12798
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   060    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       15
 22 Helium_Level            0x0023   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       100
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   088   088   000    Old_age   Always       -       14493
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   088   088   000    Old_age   Always       -       14493
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   136   136   000    Old_age   Always       -       44 (Min/Max 19/53)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 
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