Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report

[Stovar]

Hi has anyone noticed their topton or Qottom or similar boxes when in idle its not dropping the watts much?

For example the servethehome N6005 with 4x intel Nics review mentioned its around 16-17 watts with idle, can ramp up to just over 30 watts.
If one is using this as a router seems a bit energy NOT efficient it can't go into a more deeper sleep state and use 2-3 watts vs the 16-17 watts.

Or is this a limitation of using pfsense, opensense, openwrt I wonder.

 

[DomFel]

Using an N6005 with 6x i226, another one with N6005 and 4x i226, another one with N6005 and 4x i225, no issues with any of them with C-States enabled.

Running proxmox 7.3, pfsense 22.05, adguard, and other shenanigans. Kernel 6.1, mitigations off, pci passtrough.

 

[Stovar]

Using an N6005 with 6x i226, another one with N6005 and 4x i226, another one with N6005 and 4x i225, no issues with any of them with C-States enabled.

Running proxmox 7.3, pfsense 22.05, adguard, and other shenanigans. Kernel 6.1, mitigations off, pci passtrough.

thanks interesting to hear, I can't be 100% sure though since you are using Proxmox I think that might be allowing it to handle better idle/power states, never used Proxmox though but was thinking of trying a VM state of openwrtx86 to see if it does lower power wattage during idle or when in morning when no one is using the internet.

 

[T.Sharp]

thanks interesting to hear, I can't be 100% sure though since you are using Proxmox I think that might be allowing it to handle better idle/power states, never used Proxmox though but was thinking of trying a VM state of openwrtx86 to see if it does lower power wattage during idle or when in morning when no one is using the internet.

The settings that made the most difference for me, runnning opnsense bare metal :

In the bios :
PCH-IO > PCIe Config > Root Ports 1,4,5,6,7,8 > ASPM = Auto

In the opnsense tunables :
hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest = C3 (enables C3 C-states)

Then you can also limit the CPU clock speed with P-states. I use dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp = 99 (has to be applied to each core, 0,1,2,3)
This limits my N5100 to 800-16000 MHz. You might not want to kneecap the CPU that much, but my setup is pretty lightweight right now.

Full post of the settings I've used

 

[Stovar]

The settings that made the most difference for me, runnning opnsense bare metal :

In the bios :
PCH-IO > PCIe Config > Root Ports 1,4,5,6,7,8 > ASPM = Auto

In the opnsense tunables :
hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest = C3 (enables C3 C-states)

Then you can also limit the CPU clock speed with P-states. I use dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp = 99 (has to be applied to each core, 0,1,2,3)
This limits my N5100 to 800-16000 MHz. You might not want to kneecap the CPU that much, but my setup is pretty lightweight right now.

Full post of the settings I've used

thanks, looks like you have done a lot of work to get the wattage down well done.

I am not quite sure I can do this though am using a different PC system build with very limited bios options and openwrtx86 on it for now. But I will double check the bios and see if I can perhaps apply those settings somehow.

Good to know it can be reduced.

 

[skimikes]

thanks, looks like you have done a lot of work to get the wattage down well done.

I am not quite sure I can do this though am using a different PC system build with very limited bios options and openwrtx86 on it for now. But I will double check the bios and see if I can perhaps apply those settings somehow.

Good to know it can be reduced.

The idle draw varies wildly depending on what hardware you have, whether you have set C-States to Enabled (mine defaulted to disabled), PCIe ASPM enabled (mine defaulted to off), what PSU you have, and how many NICs you have connected. I have an N6005 on the CW-N6000 platform and it only draws 7.5-8.1W idle with C-States Enabled, ASPM Auto, 1x 16GB Samsung SODIMM (2x8GB didn't make an appeciable difference in power use), SK Hynix P31 500GB NVMe drive, 2 NICs connected, running pfsense+ with PowerD enabled.

Between the 3 different platforms I have (N6005, N5105, and J6413 on various CW boards), the N6005 on CW-N6000 is the most capable CPU but draws the least power at idle. The J6413 draws the most power at 15W, and that's with C-states Enabled and ASPM auto.

 

[rj_connor]

Looking to get the Ryzen 7 5800U, but not sure where to get it from, either aliexpress or cwwk. From everyone's experience on here which one would ship the quickest to the UK. Aliexpress at the moment has an estimated delivery date of 3 Feb, can't see any estimated date on cwwk.

 

[Stovar]

The idle draw varies wildly depending on what hardware you have, whether you have set C-States to Enabled (mine defaulted to disabled), PCIe ASPM enabled (mine defaulted to off), what PSU you have, and how many NICs you have connected. I have an N6005 on the CW-N6000 platform and it only draws 7.5-8.1W idle with C-States Enabled, ASPM Auto, 1x 16GB Samsung SODIMM (2x8GB didn't make an appeciable difference in power use), SK Hynix P31 500GB NVMe drive, 2 NICs connected, running pfsense+ with PowerD enabled.

Between the 3 different platforms I have (N6005, N5105, and J6413 on various CW boards), the N6005 on CW-N6000 is the most capable CPU but draws the least power at idle. The J6413 draws the most power at 15W, and that's with C-states Enabled and ASPM auto.

Mines a bit different set up perhaps a bit wrong also its an Acer mini desktop 840 pc with the N6005 with 8gig one of those mini laptop style mobos and sodim, no separate gpus but I use HP intel 4 port nic. I did check the bios again but its very limited options its almost empty in there, no C-States or any power settings apart from deep power off mode set to enabled in bios, rest are power on by alarm, kb/mouse, pci express devices under the power option in my bios. I can hit 27-28 watts during fuller broadband use.

I did do some more testing, disconnected the usb and front memory card slot reader, SSDs/hdds, disabled onboard network, audio and pretty much disabled anything ports or anything in the bios and it only saved 1-2 watts so did not do much, but when I pulled out my hp 4 port 364 nic pci express card my watts went from 22 idle to 7-8 idle while under openwrtx86 booted.

So I think that has to be the culprit for my higher energy usage here.

I think I should have gone for one of these aliexpress boxes and still might, some of the STH aliexpress unit reviews suggest idle and load wattage numbers all over the place I think one review mentioned the N6005 models are sometimes more higher wattage so I am surprised your seeing less at idle but sure lots of factors, hardware and power adaptors as mentioned.

I was considering the J6413 but ideally Id like to have something around that has low idle wattage around 8-12 watts and maybe 18-20 watts if possible, any advice on which unit?

 

[skimikes]

Mines a bit different set up perhaps a bit wrong also its an Acer mini desktop 840 pc with the N6005 with 8gig one of those mini laptop style mobos and sodim, no separate gpus but I use HP intel 4 port nic. I did check the bios again but its very limited options its almost empty in there, no C-States or any power settings apart from deep power off mode set to enabled in bios, rest are power on by alarm, kb/mouse, pci express devices under the power option in my bios. I can hit 27-28 watts during fuller broadband use.

I did do some more testing, disconnected the usb and front memory card slot reader, SSDs/hdds, disabled onboard network, audio and pretty much disabled anything ports or anything in the bios and it only saved 1-2 watts so did not do much, but when I pulled out my hp 4 port 364 nic pci express card my watts went from 22 idle to 7-8 idle while under openwrtx86 booted.

So I think that has to be the culprit for my higher energy usage here.

I think I should have gone for one of these aliexpress boxes and still might, some of the STH aliexpress unit reviews suggest idle and load wattage numbers all over the place I think one review mentioned the N6005 models are sometimes more higher wattage so I am surprised your seeing less at idle but sure lots of factors, hardware and power adaptors as mentioned.

I was considering the J6413 but ideally Id like to have something around that has low idle wattage around 8-12 watts and maybe 18-20 watts if possible, any advice on which unit?

Making a recommendation is difficult to do. I have a hard time recommending any of these aliexpress devices unless you don't mind tinkering and you're willing to risk being out ~$150 bucks should something go wrong. There's no guarantee that what you order is going to match what others have received. There are at least 3 different device manufacturers being resold under a variety of brands (Topton, KingNovy, HUNSN, Hero, etc). You're most likely to get something in a decent state from the CWWK store based upon we've seen in this thread so far. The units I received from Topton all needed to be repasted (and could probably benefit from sanding down of the spacers). The unit I received from CWWK did not. If I had to look for something with the hopes of it being low power, I'd probably be looking at N5105 with 4x i225 or i226 NICs. With something like that, you should be able to hit 12W or better idle state. If lowest possible power is your primary concern, then J4125. Just be aware that every device is a crap shoot.

 

[Stovar]

Making a recommendation is difficult to do. I have a hard time recommending any of these aliexpress devices unless you don't mind tinkering and you're willing to risk being out ~$150 bucks should something go wrong. There's no guarantee that what you order is going to match what others have received. There are at least 3 different device manufacturers being resold under a variety of brands (Topton, KingNovy, HUNSN, Hero, etc). You're most likely to get something in a decent state from the CWWK store based upon we've seen in this thread so far. The units I received from Topton all needed to be repasted (and could probably benefit from sanding down of the spacers). The unit I received from CWWK did not. If I had to look for something with the hopes of it being low power, I'd probably be looking at N5105 with 4x i225 or i226 NICs. With something like that, you should be able to hit 12W or better idle state. If lowest possible power is your primary concern, then J4125. Just be aware that every device is a crap shoot.

Cheers, yeah that is why its been a bit of a confusing affair really I was considering the N5105/i226 since the reviews generally say its not too weak or overly powerful just the right balance, I think not much difference between the 4 or 6 port nic though wattage wise.

Good to hear that CWWK has better build quality, will stick with that rather then take the risk. thanks

 

[istwok]

This is a follow up to my earlier request for help regarding lower than expected iperf trhoughput when my CWWK, N5105, i226 router was sending the traffic. I eventually found the recommendations to disable C states in earlier posts. When I first skimmed this entire thread, I didn't yet have my router and that detail got forgotten.

Anyway, disabling C states restored all of the throughput I was expecting. Of course, doing so also raised the power usage by about 5 watts. Further experimentation revealed something that I don't recall being mentioned here before and I want to pass it on for future readers.

Leaving C states enabled, but disabling "Enhanced" C states seems to be a good compromise. It restores most most of the power savings but also keeps almost all of the throughput. On my system, this configuration uses only about 2 watts more than with C states fully enabled and maintains full throughput on iperf almost all of the time. When it doesn't maintain full throughput, it only drops by about 100 Mbps instead of the 700 Mbps it always dropped with C states fully enabled.

 

[Stovar]

This is a follow up to my earlier request for help regarding lower than expected iperf trhoughput when my CWWK, N5105, i226 router was sending the traffic. I eventually found the recommendations to disable C states in earlier posts. When I first skimmed this entire thread, I didn't yet have my router and that detail got forgotten.

Anyway, disabling C states restored all of the throughput I was expecting. Of course, doing so also raised the power usage by about 5 watts. Further experimentation revealed something that I don't recall being mentioned here before and I want to pass it on for future readers.

Leaving C states enabled, but disabling "Enhanced" C states seems to be a good compromise. It restores most most of the power savings but also keeps almost all of the throughput. On my system, this configuration uses only about 2 watts more than with C states fully enabled and maintains full throughput on iperf almost all of the time. When it doesn't maintain full throughput, it only drops by about 100 Mbps instead of the 700 Mbps it always dropped with C states fully enabled.

thanks good information to note especially with the recent discussion on this page, was that 700Mbps under OpenVPN or Wireguard or just normal wan/lan traffic?

Our of curiosity do you have some idle and max power consumption numbers?

Possible you got more addons/packages or VM or other stuff going on in the background, someone a page ago mentioned to me they have a similar N5105 and get 1Gbps with nordvpn openvpn use.

 

[istwok]

My trhoughput tests so far have only used plain, Proxmox to bridge the interfaces together. Using iperf3, I've tested both directions between the router and another host and also between two hosts with the router bridging between them.

I will eventually install OPNsense under Proxmox but that will take a while longer. I'm still researching how to get from where I am now (OpenWRT and everyting on a single subnet) to where I want to be (OPNsenes on the new router with multiple subnets and VLANs) and with the least disruption.

My current, idle power is about 8 watts. My kill-o-watt only reports integer watts and it bounces around betwen 7-9 watts but mostly on 8 watts. I don't recall the exact, max power when I stress tested the CPU but I want to say it was around 27 watts. I know the max temp was 78 degrees.

 

[Stovar]

My trhoughput tests so far have only used plain, Proxmox to bridge the interfaces together. Using iperf3, I've tested both directions between the router and another host and also between two hosts with the router bridging between them.

I will eventually install OPNsense under Proxmox but that will take a while longer. I'm still researching how to get from where I am now (OpenWRT and everyting on a single subnet) to where I want to be (OPNsenes on the new router with multiple subnets and VLANs) and with the least disruption.

My current, idle power is about 8 watts. My kill-o-watt only reports integer watts and it bounces around betwen 7-9 watts but mostly on 8 watts. I don't recall the exact, max power when I stress tested the CPU but I want to say it was around 27 watts. I know the max temp was 78 degrees.

thanks those power readings are very good, sounds about right also others get around 8-12 watts in idle and yes you can ramp up to 18-30+ when maxing out stuff.

 

[DomFel]

iperf with C-states and Enhanced C-States enabled:

[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr  Cwnd
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  3.54 GBytes  30.4 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  4.02 GBytes  34.6 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes      
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  3.69 GBytes  31.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  3.46 GBytes  29.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  3.73 GBytes  32.1 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  3.60 GBytes  30.9 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  3.55 GBytes  30.5 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  3.52 GBytes  30.2 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  3.45 GBytes  29.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  3.80 GBytes  32.7 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes      
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  36.4 GBytes  31.2 Gbits/sec    0             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.04  sec  36.4 GBytes  31.1 Gbits/sec                  receiver

Enhanced C-States disabled:

Connecting to host 127.0.0.1, port 5201
[  5] local 127.0.0.1 port 42074 connected to 127.0.0.1 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr  Cwnd
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  3.61 GBytes  31.0 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  3.62 GBytes  31.1 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  3.62 GBytes  31.1 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  3.81 GBytes  32.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  3.49 GBytes  30.0 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  3.89 GBytes  33.4 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes      
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  3.70 GBytes  31.7 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes      
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  3.86 GBytes  33.2 Gbits/sec    1    895 KBytes      
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  4.02 GBytes  34.6 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes      
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  3.59 GBytes  30.8 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  37.2 GBytes  32.0 Gbits/sec    1             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.04  sec  37.2 GBytes  31.9 Gbits/sec                  receiver

This is with Proxmox with kernel 6.1.

 

[Stovar]

when my CWWK, N5105, i226 router

Completely forgot to ask earlier, is this the model you have from CWWK ?

Link

Or if you can perhaps get the model number, thanks.

 

[skimikes]

iperf with C-states and Enhanced C-States enabled:

[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr  Cwnd
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  3.54 GBytes  30.4 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  4.02 GBytes  34.6 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes     
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  3.69 GBytes  31.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  3.46 GBytes  29.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  3.73 GBytes  32.1 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  3.60 GBytes  30.9 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  3.55 GBytes  30.5 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  3.52 GBytes  30.2 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  3.45 GBytes  29.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  3.80 GBytes  32.7 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes     
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  36.4 GBytes  31.2 Gbits/sec    0             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.04  sec  36.4 GBytes  31.1 Gbits/sec                  receiver

Enhanced C-States disabled:

Connecting to host 127.0.0.1, port 5201
[  5] local 127.0.0.1 port 42074 connected to 127.0.0.1 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr  Cwnd
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  3.61 GBytes  31.0 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  3.62 GBytes  31.1 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  3.62 GBytes  31.1 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  3.81 GBytes  32.7 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  3.49 GBytes  30.0 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  3.89 GBytes  33.4 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes     
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  3.70 GBytes  31.7 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes     
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  3.86 GBytes  33.2 Gbits/sec    1    895 KBytes     
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  4.02 GBytes  34.6 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes     
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  3.59 GBytes  30.8 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes     
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  37.2 GBytes  32.0 Gbits/sec    1             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.04  sec  37.2 GBytes  31.9 Gbits/sec                  receiver

This is with Proxmox with kernel 6.1.

I'm assuming this is something other than one of these cheap aliexpress devices since it looks like your numbers are more appropriate for something like a 40G card?

 

[DomFel]

I'm assuming this is something other than one of these cheap aliexpress devices since it looks like your numbers are more appropriate for something like a 40G card?

It's a cheap CWWK box with an N6005 and i226 nics. Proxmox with 2 VMs and 2 LXCs and properly optimized (with powersave scheduler).

By the way, the following is with an N5105 and i226:

Connecting to host 127.0.0.1, port 5201
[  5] local 127.0.0.1 port 43730 connected to 127.0.0.1 port 5201
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr  Cwnd
[  5]   0.00-1.00   sec  3.44 GBytes  29.6 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   1.00-2.00   sec  3.09 GBytes  26.5 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   2.00-3.00   sec  3.32 GBytes  28.5 Gbits/sec    0    895 KBytes      
[  5]   3.00-4.00   sec  3.06 GBytes  26.3 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   4.00-5.00   sec  3.20 GBytes  27.5 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   5.00-6.00   sec  3.16 GBytes  27.2 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   6.00-7.00   sec  3.19 GBytes  27.4 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   7.00-8.00   sec  3.03 GBytes  26.0 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   8.00-9.00   sec  3.19 GBytes  27.4 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
[  5]   9.00-10.00  sec  3.25 GBytes  27.9 Gbits/sec    0    767 KBytes      
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  5]   0.00-10.00  sec  31.9 GBytes  27.4 Gbits/sec    0             sender
[  5]   0.00-10.04  sec  31.9 GBytes  27.3 Gbits/sec                  receiver

 

[skimikes]

It's a cheap CWWK box with an N6005 and i226 nics. Proxmox with 2 VMs and 2 LXCs and properly optimized.

Ah, so this is not traffic that departs the device - it's over an internal network. I was trying to understand the 30Gbit/sec number with 2.5G NICs.

That's actually a really impressive number for such a low power device.

 

[istwok]

Completely forgot to ask earlier, is this the model you have from CWWK ?

Link

Or if you can perhaps get the model number, thanks.

No, I got this one.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804770355180.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.0.0.14ec4178nNzAaf&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21US%20%24190.99%21US%20%24190.99%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000031185623100%21sh&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US