Seagate Backup Plus 4TB Drive - Cheap 2.5" 4TB drives

Discussion in 'Hard Drives and Solid State Drives' started by Patrick, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. Patrick

    Patrick Administrator
    Staff Member

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    @CyberSkulls the dozen or so I have between the Fremont and Sunnyvale data centers all work well.
     
    #181
  2. sth

    sth Active Member

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    24 in SC216 running fine here too....admittedly not hammering on them hard yet.
     
    #182
  3. PigLover

    PigLover Moderator

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    30 drives so far. Light use. 1 'soft' failure in first month (no data loss but drive reallocating sectors and having transport failures). Wrote that off to infant mortality and/or shipping damage.

    Totally satisfied.

    Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
     
    #183
  4. CyberSkulls

    CyberSkulls Active Member

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    My problem here is a lot of my 2TB reds have less than 1,000 hours on them and with a 42U rack in my back bedroom, I'm not running out of rack space by any means.

    But I have to be honest, I've already looked at used prices for my current drives if I sold them on fleabay and could get more than it would cost me to replace that same capacity with these 4TB models. Stripping my 846 chassis for parts would pay for the 216 chassis. So I would actually come out ahead money wise. Actually, about $500 ahead.

    So my issue is although I don't need these damn things for some compelling reason, I want them!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #184
  5. PigLover

    PigLover Moderator

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    If you need more justification: Your power consumption should go down by at least 50%/Gb too. Half as many drives for the same storage, each of which consumes less power both at idle and when writing.

    Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
     
    #185
  6. whitey

    whitey Moderator

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    My 6 are humming along kicking butt and takin' names! Roughly 7TB loaded up across my raidz2 so far.

    Code:
    [root@freenas-esxi6a] /mnt/datazilla/recovery-recovery-CYA-clone# zpool list
    NAME            SIZE  ALLOC   FREE  EXPANDSZ   FRAG    CAP  DEDUP  HEALTH  ALTROOT
    datazilla      21.8T  6.98T  14.8T         -    13%    32%  1.00x  ONLINE  /mnt
    
    Code:
    [root@freenas-esxi6a] /mnt/datazilla/recovery-recovery-CYA-clone# zpool status datazilla
      pool: datazilla
     state: ONLINE
      scan: scrub repaired 0 in 4h23m with 0 errors on Sun Sep 18 04:23:58 2016
    config:
    
            NAME                                            STATE     READ WRITE CKSUM
            datazilla                                       ONLINE       0     0     0
              raidz2-0                                      ONLINE       0     0     0
                gptid/684d888f-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7  ONLINE       0     0     0
                gptid/699161ef-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7  ONLINE       0     0     0
                gptid/6ade9b2f-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7  ONLINE       0     0     0
                gptid/6c2112df-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7  ONLINE       0     0     0
                gptid/6d64c12f-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7  ONLINE       0     0     0
                gptid/6e6dc39f-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7  ONLINE       0     0     0
            logs
              gptid/6ea70c28-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7    ONLINE       0     0     0
            cache
              gptid/6ed6a4de-3f15-11e6-800d-0050569a0ed7    ONLINE       0     0     0
    
    errors: No known data errors
    [root@freenas-esxi6a] /mnt/datazilla/recovery-recovery-CYA-clone# zpool status -xv
    all pools are healthy
    
    6 more in a buddies co-lo DR box all happy as piggies in sh|t :-D
     
    #186
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  7. Bradford

    Bradford Member

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    I have a small 5-drive zfs array, and one failed within a few weeks. No data loss because of my zfs parity level.
     
    #187
  8. CyberSkulls

    CyberSkulls Active Member

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    If I go this route, I'll need a new HBA, anyone running a low cost one you can recommend? I don't need blazing fast speed by any means as they are just media servers. The cards I use will need to be changed to get over the 2TB limit.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #188
  9. MiniKnight

    MiniKnight Well-Known Member

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    Look for a SAS 2008, 2308 or 3008 card or an Adaptec 1000 series hba. What OS are you using?

    This is a good one for the 2308 generation - SuperMicro AOC-S2308L-L8i 8 Ports SAS-600 PCIe 8Gb/s Server RAID Controller Card and NEW SuperMicro AOC-S2308L-L8E 8 Ports SATA/SAS 6Gb/s PCI-E RAID Card Low Profile
     
    #189
  10. CyberSkulls

    CyberSkulls Active Member

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    I'm running unRAID 6.2 at the moment. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into those you listed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #190
  11. danws6

    danws6 New Member

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    For those of you that have seen failures: how long were the rebuild times?
     
    #191
  12. CyberSkulls

    CyberSkulls Active Member

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    What do you think of the Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8? I snagged two of those on eBay for $60/EA from a seller I've dealt with in the past. I don't know jack about these cards as I've always just used HBA's since I run unRAID. So going with another simple HBA without having to re flash them seemed like the logical choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #192
  13. sfbayzfs

    sfbayzfs Active Member

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    I just cut the price of the 3 I have lying around to $80 for all with 3 other RAID cards, check out my FS posting, but they have several downsides according to my previous research:
    1. Marvell based
    2. Drivers can be a problem under Linux, and no OSX or FreeBSD support
    3. Apparently they do not support more than 8 drives per card even when connected through SAS expanders
    People seem to like them for Unraid in Windows and Linux, and Coraid used them for directly attached drives in their EtherDrive appliances.

    Overall I would highly recommend LSI IT mode HBAs (and not just because I have a bunch of extras for sale ;) they just work in most OSes, and work really well, and are very well tested and supported.
     
    #193
  14. CyberSkulls

    CyberSkulls Active Member

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    I was just basing the price on closed/sold eBay auctions. So in the event I don't like them, I can sell them, pay my fees and break even. So it was worth trying out for free :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #194
  15. Bobby M

    Bobby M New Member

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    I'm having problems with this hdds.

    TLDR:
    after writing ~600Gb the read speed drops to 2MB/s, exactly the same thing happens to a replacement hdd.

    Long version:
    I need a 2.5" hdd for on site weekly backup for my 1U server,
    I shuck my old 2TB Seagate Expansion Portable to go into server and ordered a replacement 4TB for offsite (panned to shuck it and swap it when proven worthy).
    When 4TB drive arrived i inspected it, checked smart, did some speed test and since everything seamed ok started to rsync data from old to new.
    Everything went fine for couple of hours and about 550Gb, then sync speed dropped to very low speed.
    I restarted the computer and sync process couple of times to no avail, then i noticed partition mounting took very long time so i read some files back and the speed was very very low(1.5-2MB/s).
    Thinking that hdd may be defective i did a smart short test and a selective test for first 100 lba (witch both passed).
    So i zerro filled ~1TB (witch oddly writes at ~100Mb/s) and returned the drive for a replacement.
    With the replacement drive did almost the same thing except being extra careful in initial tests and allowing the drive to rest and cool down from time to time.
    Exactly the same thing happened to the replacement only a bit latter at ~700Gb written.

    I think one of the following happens (ascending probability):
    • there is a bad batch
    • there is a firmware bug related to thermal dilatation compensation (worked fine under 30C, started weird behavior after reaching ~45C)
    • (hopefully) something wrong with usb bridge
    Any thoughts ?
     
    #195
  16. sfbayzfs

    sfbayzfs Active Member

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    Cool, the SAS2LP-MV8 cards do seem to be holding their value on ebay - please report any findings about:
    • SAS expander compatibility
    • Driver stability or issues
    • firmware updates and their affect on the above.

    I have run into similar behavior a few times:
    • I have thermal issues with two older Seagate 1.5TB 2.5" externals from a few years ago (back when they had the USB adapter unplug-able from the SATA port without shucking the drive!) If I blast the drives with an upside down can of dust-off, the transfer rates go up again for a few minutes, and then slow down again. I plan to shuck these fully and put them in a 2U with good airflow to see if it helps.
    • I have had the USB bridge chip partly die on a USB 2.0 WD 2.5" mini drive, I think 500GB or 750GB - inbound transfers to the drive were nice and fast, but at some point outbound transfers fell to something like USB 1.1 speeds - this was within the first month or so I owned the drive, so after a week copying off onto another drive, I returned it and bought another one, which was fine. It was one of the smaller WD drives which has no SATA port, just USB on the drive board, so if it had failed completely, I would have been SOL.
    • I have had a few USB 3.0 controllers on a couple of 2.5" externals fail. Shucking the 2.5" drives let me get my data off of them via SATA,
    • I had some USB 3.0 double docking stations which worked great on USB 2.0, but after transferring for a while on USB 3.0, especially with 2 drives in the dock, transfers would slow down and then the dock would disappear. I RMA'ed them and got a slightly different model in return, which worked fine for a while, but one of them started exhibiting the same problem after a couple of months, suggesting that some sort of permanent thermal damage had been done to the USB 3.0 chip in that dock.
    Suggestions/questions:
    • Your issue could be a thermal issue with the USB 3.0 controller, and not the drive itself - try shucking it.
    • What filesystem are you using on the drives?
    • What OS are you running?
    • How large are the files you are transferring? (Small files can cause a lot of writes to happen to the directory entries and data sectors in rapid succession, causing really slow write times)
     
    #196
  17. CyberSkulls

    CyberSkulls Active Member

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    I just got them a few minutes ago. I wanted a couple to play with as I have some SAS2 expanders coming for my 826 chassis. I had a slug of the old hated Seagate 3TB drives that I put into one of my 846 chassis with a SAS1 backplane. Always get into arguments with people on Reddit about how these older SAS1 backplanes can't handle any drive over 2TB. While this is partially correct that those backplanes don't play nice when loaded with 24 drives >2TB, I had 23 of them recognized with a SAS1 HBA. They just happen to only show 2.2TB due to the controller limitations. I had also read multiple times that these controllers would only see 8 drives even when connected to an expander backplane such as the SAS1 expander in my 846 chassis.

    Since swapping the controller out a few minutes ago, it does see all 23 drives again and at the full 3TB. Since I run unRAID, I wanted to see what the parity speeds would be with this older backplane just for shits n giggles till my SAS2 backplanes arrive for my 826 chassis.

    I bought the 826 chassis last year as new, old stock. So they had SAS1 backplanes but were brand new in their SM boxes still with the anti scratch crap on them and inside their factory sealed bags with the full sealed accessory box. So they were literally brand new units for used chassis prices. Couldn't pass it up. Since I will probably sell them, I knew I wanted to put SAS2 backplanes in them to get a lot more money out of them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #197
  18. Bobby M

    Bobby M New Member

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    rsync was done on out of the box NTFS partition with Arch Linux, then checked on windows, also reproduced the issue on other 3 computers running Windows 10, CentOS 7, and Linux Mint.
    For the 2nd drive (when i was paying attention) last file that transferred ok was 11Gb and the problems started at 5-6Gb of a 44Gb file.

    I don't think USB controller overheating is the problem as the speed stay at under 2Mb/s even when cool.
    It may be some kind (maybe thermal triggered) bug or corruption on USB bridge, dmesg CDB errors and slow smartctrl (6sec) seams like a communication problem with the bridge.

    I would like to shuck it and keep it but voiding the warranty on a dud that i could otherwise return doesn't seam wise :)
    I'm hopping for some feedback from ppl who used them for some time and maybe filled them with data.

    In the mean time zero fill ended and the speed is back to normal, now running a full smart test and then will try again to put data on it.
     
    #198
  19. sth

    sth Active Member

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    Coming to the STH-experts for some education, I think my understanding is wrong and want correcting.

    I recently built a SC216 with 24 of these 4TB drives and have been having some access speed issues. Its a xeon e5-1650v3, 256GB, 3*9207 HBA and Chelsio T520-LL-CR networking. They run under latest stable 9.10-U2 FreeNAS in a 3 stripe * 8 drive RAID`2 array.
    The fastest I am able to read/write to this array is circa 250MB/s which is significantly less than my other box which is significantly less well equipped running 10*WD Red 4TB drives which is capable of 500MB/s+.

    I ran some FreeNAS benchmarking and observed 120MB/s in serial use, but pretty performance in the parallel stress test of circa 10MB/s.
    I verified this with single and dual 'dd if=/dev/da3 of=/dev/null bs=8M'

    On my RED 4TB, I can run single or double thread and still see circa 120MB/s. In the image below, the area in the red box is where the second 'dd' instance was running.

    sys2parread.png

    On these 2.5" drives, starting the second thread hammers performance to 10MB/s. Did I just expect too much performance out of these PMR, NCQ enabled drives? Bonus points if you tell where the second 'dd' thread started and stops!

    25paraccess.png


    Code:
    === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
    Device Model:     ST4000LM016-1N2170
    Serial Number:    W80xxxxxxx
    LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 09bb76b3e
    Firmware Version: 0003
    User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
    Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
    Rotation Rate:    5400 rpm
    Form Factor:      2.5 inches
    Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
    ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b
    SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
    Local Time is:    Mon Oct 24 20:26:27 2016 EDT
    SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
    SMART support is: Enabled
    vs

    Code:
    === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
    Model Family:     Western Digital Red
    Device Model:     WDC WD40EFRX-68WT0N0
    Serial Number:    WD-WCCxxxxxxxx
    LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 20a967c06
    Firmware Version: 80.00A80
    User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
    Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
    Rotation Rate:    5400 rpm
    Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
    ATA Version is:   ACS-2 (minor revision not indicated)
    SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 3.0 Gb/s)
    Local Time is:    Mon Oct 24 20:21:18 2016 EDT
    SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
    SMART support is: Enabled
    Specifically interested if a firmware revision is likely to increase the perf of these drives or if I should 'retire' them to backup duties where perf matters way less. Thx in adv.
     
    #199
  20. MiniKnight

    MiniKnight Well-Known Member

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    Disk RAID-Z2 with laptop drives? I think you'd have a better chance with RAID 10 like setups.

    2.5" + slow rpm = VERY slow drives. The Reds you've got are 3.5" so they're going to be waaaay faster.
     
    #200
    KioskAdmin likes this.
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