ES Xeon Discussion

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Shiitake

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Oct 31, 2023
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hello. Greetings from Korea.

After secretly spying on this thread and studying hard over the past few months, I also managed to configure an Intel QYFQ + GIGABYTE MS73.

It has been working well for two months now. First of all, I would like to share that QYFQ works well with the most recent F21 BIOS+13.05.07 Firmware.

Actually, I have a problem. I signed up today and wrote a post because I was wondering if there was someone else going through the same situation as me.

So far, I am running Windows 10 Pro. And now, I'm trying to upgrade it to Windows 11 Pro, but I can't proceed.

When I burn the *.iso file onto a UEFI USB and boot it, I see a BSOD before even seeing the installation screen. The main error contents are as follows.
Stop code: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL / What failed: ntoskrnl.exe

It's like a kernel panic, but I don't know why it's happening.
I thought there was an error with the add-on card, so I removed everything and plugged in only the storage devices (SATA/NVME), CPU RAM, VGA keyboard, mouse, and OS USB, but I couldn't get rid of the error. I even tried replacing the USB just in case.
Of course, if I test it on another PC with the same USB, it works without problem.

Everyone at Google said there might be an error in RAM, but there was nothing detected in memtest86. Also, like me, there were a few posts saying that an error occurred as soon as they tried to install the OS. There was no proper reply, so it was not helpful information.

Could it be due to the absence of the TPM module?

I know there are several people who use the same configuration as me. I'm looking for advice from people who have tried installing Windows 11 or know how to solve the same error as me. If I'm in the wrong thread, it would be great if you could point me to another place.
 

RolloZ170

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it would be great if you could point me to another place.
i have MS33-AR0 and a QYFQ should be not that different from MS73, i create installatin media for W11 now and check whats happening, hold the line.
So far, I am running Windows 10 Pro. And now, I'm trying to upgrade it to Windows 11 Pro, but I can't proceed.



When I burn the *.iso file onto a UEFI USB and boot it, I see a BSOD before even seeing the installation screen. The main error contents are as follows.

Stop code: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL / What failed: ntoskrnl.exe
USB media with Win11 booted but i got no picture with BMC VGA monitor.

after installation of a PCIe GPU i got picture and tried to install..

"PC currently does not meet the minimum requirements to run Windows 11"

MS33 BIOS support TPM v1.2 only, so i think this is the first issue.

i know on the ASUS W790 Ace & SAGE SE and QYFQ windows 11 is possible, BIOS supports TPM 2.0( without module )
When I burn the *.iso file onto a UEFI USB and boot it, I see a BSOD before even seeing the installation screen. The main error contents are as follows.

Stop code: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL / What failed: ntoskrnl.exe
Could it be due to the absence of the TPM module?
no, you should only see "PC currently does not meet the minimum requirements to run Windows 11"

create USB media with microsoft mediacreationtool
edit:
w. only TPM 1.2 you can update to w11 from w10 with a registry tweak
 
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Shiitake

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Oct 31, 2023
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i have MS33-AR0 and a QYFQ should be not that different from MS73, i create installatin media for W11 now and check whats happening, hold the line.


USB media with Win11 booted but i got no picture with BMC VGA monitor.

after installation of a PCIe GPU i got picture and tried to install..

"PC currently does not meet the minimum requirements to run Windows 11"

MS33 BIOS support TPM v1.2 only, so i think this is the first issue.

i know on the ASUS W790 Ace & SAGE SE and QYFQ windows 11 is possible, BIOS supports TPM 2.0( without module )




no, you should only see "PC currently does not meet the minimum requirements to run Windows 11"

create USB media with microsoft mediacreationtool
edit:
w. only TPM 1.2 you can update to w11 from w10 with a registry tweak

Thank you very much for taking the time to test it.

As you said, I also saw data showing that TPM2.0 for the W790 series works well without installing a separate module. W11 is also installed. However, it was very difficult to find data on W11 running on the C741.

Like the MS33, my MS73 only supports up to TPM1.2 without a module.

However, the difference between RolloZ and me is that I could not even see the message. ( = "PC currently does not meet the minimum requirements to run Windows 11" ) When that message appears, we can force install it by modifying it a little with REGEDIT. It's true, but...


This is what happens when I try to install W11 on my MS73.

After completing the BIOS post -> Press the F10 key to select the OS USB device -> The loading part spins around and then a BSOD appears immediately.

If I buy a TPM module and test it, I would be able to check something right away, but it is not easy to find a TPM module called CTM010 in this area. And actually, I'm not sure that it's a TPM problem more than anything else. However, there are no other parts that are suspicious.

Once again, thank you very much for your time and help. Before purchasing a TPM module, I will continue to check to see if there are any other problems. If anything comes to mind, please let me know. I will be greatly appreciated.
 

RolloZ170

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However, the difference between RolloZ and me is that I could not even see the message. ( = "PC currently does not meet the minimum requirements to run Windows 11" ) When that message appears, we can force install it by modifying it a little with REGEDIT. It's true, but...


This is what happens when I try to install W11 on my MS73.

After completing the BIOS post -> Press the F10 key to select the OS USB device -> The loading part spins around and then a BSOD appears immediately.
your media is corrupt. create USB directly media with mediacreationtool, NOT burn iso to usb disk
 

Shiitake

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Oct 31, 2023
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your media is corrupt. create USB directly media with mediacreationtool, NOT burn iso to usb disk
your media is corrupt. create USB directly media with mediacreationtool, NOT burn iso to usb disk
Yes, I like the stock OS, so I tried it first using the program provided by MS. But there was the same error.

That didn't work, so I downloaded the ISO file from the program and uploaded it to USB using Refus, but the same problem occurred.

After that, I burned several tweak OS iso files for several days, and this shows the Windows installation process
but when I reboot after that, the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error message welcomes me again. Instead, the difference from before is that the What failed: ntoskrnl.exe message disappears.

W11_22H2 doesn't work, so I tried using W11_21H2, but the problem still persists. This is really sad.
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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Yes, I like the stock OS, so I tried it first using the program provided by MS. But there was the same error.

That didn't work, so I downloaded the ISO file from the program and uploaded it to USB using Refus, but the same problem occurred.

After that, I burned several tweak OS iso files for several days, and this shows the Windows installation process
but when I reboot after that, the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error message welcomes me again. Instead, the difference from before is that the What failed: ntoskrnl.exe message disappears.

W11_22H2 doesn't work, so I tried using W11_21H2, but the problem still persists. This is really sad.
tried the USB in other PC ? i used sandisk 128GB stick.
maybe you have 4GB faked to 16GB USB stick ??
 

Shiitake

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Oct 31, 2023
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tried the USB in other PC ? i used sandisk 128GB stick.
maybe you have 4GB faked to 16GB USB stick ??
Yes, that's right. It was confirmed that it was installed normally on another PC.

I own one Samsung 64GB product and one Transcend product, and since i were purchased from a Korean distributor, I don't think they are counterfeit products.

If I had purchased it from eBay or China, I think I would have been suspicious of the USB first, as you mentioned.

I'm worried that I'm messing up the thread by dragging in a case that's too hard to find. haha too sad..
 

RolloZ170

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This is what happens when I try to install W11 on my MS73.

After completing the BIOS post -> Press the F10 key to select the OS USB device -> The loading part spins around and then a BSOD appears immediately.
i noticed something important:
only if i try to boot the USB via F10 i have no display.
if i set the USB as first device first in BIOS, i have onboard VGA display.
please try that too, NOT F10, 1st Boot device = UEFI USB part1 (or similar)

you could also downgrade to earlier BIOS(BMCWebGUI,not Afu) to check if not a bug issues your problem.
 
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Shiitake

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i noticed something important:
only if i try to boot the USB via F10 i have no display.
if i set the USB as first device first in BIOS, i have onboard VGA display.
please try that too, NOT F10, 1st Boot device = UEFI USB part1 (or similar)

you could also downgrade to earlier BIOS(BMCWebGUI,not Afu) to check if not a bug issues your problem.
hahaha.png

Mr. RolloZ170, thank you for your sympathy and advice regarding my problem.

I tried many things based on my experience and the advice you gave, but unfortunately, it didn't work out as we expected. As with previous ES CPUs, I changed the C State and it was the same.

After worrying about this problem for a few days, I thought about it a little before going to bed yesterday. Is there something wrong with the virtualization-related options or command set?

The first thing that came to mind was NUMA and vNUMA. I turned off vNUMA first.
Then, I was able to run the Windows 11 Pro installation media as if nothing had happened. This is something to be happy about, right?

I remember that this part was disabled by default, so most people may not have seen an error like mine. Of course, if I turn off this option, the L3 Cache will be cut in half, but since the reason for moving to W11 is to escape from W10's CPU grouping, I decided to take it.

Once again, I would like to thank you for your interest in my problem. I also leave a screen image of that option.
 
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RolloZ170

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I remember that this part was disabled by default, so most people may not have seen an error like mine. Of course, if I turn off this option, the L3 Cache will be cut in half, but since the reason for moving to W11 is to escape from W10's CPU grouping, I decided to take it.

Once again, I would like to thank you for your interest in my problem. I also leave a screen image of that option.
nice find. try to set this option after w11 installation, maybe only a issue with installation media(WinPE) ???
 

Shiitake

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Oct 31, 2023
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nice find. try to set this option after w11 installation, maybe only a issue with installation media(WinPE) ???
96C HT ON TURBO ON_128threads_cr.png 96C HT ON TURBO ON_128threads_vari_cr.png 96C HT ON TURBO ON_192threads_cmd.png96C HT ON TURBO ON_192threads_taskmgr.png

That's right, sir. I thought that might be the case too. I had that hope haha.

So, after installing Windows, I reinstalled all drivers, updated the latest updates, and changed vNUMA to enable again, but unfortunately, I was greeted with a kernel panic.

Anyway, I achieved what I wanted. In Windows 10, more than 64 multiprocessors are grouped, so except for programs that can distribute the load by group, only one group is loaded.

In Windows 11, this setting has been changed again so that regular programs are automatically load separated.

I am attaching two photos. In Windows 10, which I was using until yesterday, when benchmarking 7zip with QYFQ 2S 96C HT ON, the load is concentrated on only one node (group) and the load is not distributed properly. However, Windows 11 even utilizes spare resources such as photos. If the 7zip thread was capable of up to 192 threads, I think the score would have been higher. Anyway, there was the same problem not only with 7zip but also with cinebench2024.

This is where my problem ends. The process of reading here and configuring the system for several months was fun thanks to you.
 
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RolloZ170

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So, after installing Windows, I reinstalled all drivers, updated the latest updates, and changed vNUMA to enable again, but unfortunately, I was greeted with a kernel panic.
works fine here with MS33-AR0 and QYFQ. must be an issue with dual socket CPU ? maybe you go better with NUMA, not vNUMA ?
 

Shiitake

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Oct 31, 2023
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works fine here with MS33-AR0 and QYFQ. must be an issue with dual socket CPU ? maybe you go better with NUMA, not vNUMA ?
64C HT OFF TURBO ON_allNUMAoff.png 64C HT OFF TURBO ON_NUMAon.png 64C HT OFF TURBO ON_vNUMAon.png

I learned about the concept of NUMA while using this system, so I don't have anything to comment on. As far as I know, NUMA came out after the concept of UMA, and Virtual NUMA came out after that. Additionally, machines for which V NUMA is recommended must have high-density cores and memory per socket.

Since you mentioned it, I tried booting with NUMA disabled and V NUMA enabled. Then I entered Windows without a kernel panic. I didn't expect this. haha

In Windows 10, I enabled both and used them well. I don't know what part caused it.
I don't think it's a multi-socket problem, as technologies like NUMA should be used well in multi-sockets.

It may not be of much help, but I am attaching a benchmark image showing all NUMA disabled, only NUMA enabled, and only V NUMA enabled. I'm currently using a lower core profile, so it's 32 cores, but I think you'll get different results if you compare it with 48 cores with HT turned on.
I think people who work in virtual computing will know the most about this.
 

RolloZ170

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In Windows 10, I enabled both and used them well. I don't know what part caused it.
I don't think it's a multi-socket problem, as technologies like NUMA should be used well in multi-sockets.
possibly Windows 11 is buggy ? can that be LOL ?
time for a specialised thread for this issue thought.
this is helpful, applications need to manage the processor groups now.
 
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Shiitake

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possibly Windows 11 is buggy ? can that be LOL ?
time for a specialised thread for this issue thought.
Looking at the progress of Windows 11 so far, it smells plausible enough, right? That's my opinion too. But I also feel like it was divided on purpose. With Server 2022. hahaha
 

Kizune

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But I also feel like it was divided on purpose. With Server 2022.
If you mean divided into separate logical NUMA groups - yes, that was done on purpose. When Windows threading API was created processors with more than 16 threads were unthinkable so when core affinity variable was introduced it was decided that a 64-bit wide bitmask is more than enough. Unfortunately that meant that if processor would have more than 64 logical cores this API does not have any way to schedule thread execution onto all of them, only first 64 cores will be addressable. When such processors (like Intel Xeon Phi) happened it was decided that instead of breaking API in an incompatible way it is easier to introduce virtual NUMA nodes and that will allow NUMA-aware programs to do the thread scheduling using these groups. For the NUMA-unaware processes they were assigned a random NUMA node and all of its threads would be scheduled on that node.
 
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RolloZ170

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"Starting with Windows 11 and Windows Server 2022, it is no longer the case that applications are constrained by default to a single processor group. Instead, processes and their threads have processor affinities that by default span all processors in the system, across multiple groups on machines with more than 64 processors."
 

Kizune

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"Starting with Windows 11 and Windows Server 2022, it is no longer the case that applications are constrained by default to a single processor group. Instead, processes and their threads have processor affinities that by default span all processors in the system, across multiple groups on machines with more than 64 processors."
Yep, the scheduler in Win11 (and Server 2022) had to be rewritten to be less dependent on the input from programs because of the new Intel architecture with performance and efficiency cores. You can not just expose them to the user and let them schedule their threads on any core they want. Well, they’ve done it with Win10 and that’s the reason Lakefield notebooks had such a terrible reputation regarding performance and power efficiency. Microsoft had to fully rewrite scheduler introducing new API that allowed to get rid of the old limitations and to drop the old default behavior.
 
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nkw

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I have two X11SPH-NCTPF based systems currently populated with Xeon Silver 4110s. I would like to spend some eBay money and upgrade these (moar CORES! moar POWER!). These are in my personal lab so I don't mind playing around with ES cpus. I understand some of the OEM 'special' cpus may require doing the VRM mod on this board.

What is everyone's opinion on the sweet spot right now for a 2nd gen Xeon scalable for this board? Both if I do the VRM mod and if I don't. I've been looking at maybe the QQ89 or QQ8Q?
 

Shiitake

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"Starting with Windows 11 and Windows Server 2022, it is no longer the case that applications are constrained by default to a single processor group. Instead, processes and their threads have processor affinities that by default span all processors in the system, across multiple groups on machines with more than 64 processors."
It was that link that made me decide. After seeing that post, I decided to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11.

In W10, if the number of logical processors exceeds 64, they are grouped, but even though ordinary programs are designed to support multiprocessors, they only operate within the group in which they are running, and the resources of other groups are idle.

For example, 48C/2S/HTON=192 logical processors, but W10 divides this into four groups of 48 processors each. If you run a normal program under these conditions, only one group of logical processors (48T) will be used, and the remaining three groups (144T) will be idle.

Anyway, all issues have been resolved now that I upgraded to W11. If anyone operates the W10 under the same conditions as the few photos posted before, they will be able to see that the benchmark scores differ by up to half. The performance improvement is enormous. It's magic magic magic.
 
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