(US) 90 dollar Wyse 5070 Thin client/mini-server?

Jorge Perez

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Dec 8, 2019
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No - PCIe allocates dedicated bandwidth based on directional lanes.
For PCIe 2.0 it’s 500MBytes/sec per lane, per direction. For full duplex single port 10GbE you need 2 PCIe lanes up, 2 PCIe lanes down (x4). If you need dual port 10GbE it’s either PCIe 2.0x8 or PCIe 3.0x4 (985Mbyte/sec x4). In other words, install a SFN5122F into the 5070 big and it’ll work more like a 5GBps dualport.
Kinda an old comment, but no.
PCI-E is Full Duplex, a 1x lane has two data transfer pairs four data lines total.
2.0 x 1x will give you 500MB/s in both directions at the same time.
 

jbrukardt

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Feb 4, 2016
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Kinda an old comment, but no.
PCI-E is Full Duplex, a 1x lane has two data transfer pairs four data lines total.
2.0 x 1x will give you 500MB/s in both directions at the same time.
thats exactly what he said :) " 500MBytes/sec per lane, per direction "
 

FOSSRouterNoob

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Apr 8, 2021
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Does anyone know if it's possible to install something like OPNSense on the EMMC and then install an m.2 NIC like one these:
EGPL-G201 | M.2 to Dual GbE LAN Module | M.2 LAN Card | Communication | Embedded Peripheral | Solutions – Innodisk (Thinking about the 2 port one. The specs list that a 2280 m.2 card should fit in the wyse)

https://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-M2-...1cfc5&pd_rd_wg=D33fW&pd_rd_i=B077BQXVT4&psc=1 (This one is realtek, but it's A and E key and should fit in the wifi nic slot?)

I'd opt for the extended Wyse desktop, but it seems that the extended ones are harder to come by and more expensive. Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 

ru me

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Jun 2, 2018
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Ha, before I would buy a $100 plus card for a measly 5070 there are other options to consider. Anything recent with a pcie slot should work equally well for a fraction of the total. Also, if your heart is set on a thin client, for about $30 shipped you could buy a t630 and add a second optical Nic for about $20 or any other nvme Nic for that matter. If you really want a 5070 extended they do pop up on eBay for $150 or thereabouts.
 

cageek

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Jun 22, 2018
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Does anyone know if it's possible to install something like OPNSense on the EMMC and then install an m.2 NIC like one these:
EGPL-G201 | M.2 to Dual GbE LAN Module | M.2 LAN Card | Communication | Embedded Peripheral | Solutions – Innodisk (Thinking about the 2 port one. The specs list that a 2280 m.2 card should fit in the wyse)

https://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-M2-...1cfc5&pd_rd_wg=D33fW&pd_rd_i=B077BQXVT4&psc=1 (This one is realtek, but it's A and E key and should fit in the wifi nic slot?)
I've been running PFSense with the Commell M2-210 (single Intel A/E Key M.2 2230 nic), and the onboard Realtek NIC . I've had absolutely zero problems. I made a 3-D printed adapter for the NIC:
https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...070-thin-client-mini-server.29242/post-281296

I use the 16GB EMMC no problem. There's an option in PFSense to put logs in RAM and flush to disk periodically so I use that. I recall that IDS (e.g. suricata?) requires more disk space (like 250GB), so I you can't use that.

The Ablecon definitely won't work (too long- not 2230).

I haven't tried to use an M.2 NIC in the M/B key format slot. Also dual NIC might be a little tight across the rear - there really is very little extra space - but it depends on how pretty you want it to look.

There is now another pre-built 2230 M.2 A/E single NIC available from alibaba.com, but I haven't tried that.
 

FOSSRouterNoob

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Apr 8, 2021
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Ha, before I would buy a $100 plus card for a measly 5070 there are other options to consider. Anything recent with a pcie slot should work equally well for a fraction of the total. Also, if your heart is set on a thin client, for about $30 shipped you could buy a t630 and add a second optical Nic for about $20 or any other nvme Nic for that matter. If you really want a 5070 extended they do pop up on eBay for $150 or thereabouts.
Will the t630 be able to handle gigabit internet + a few wireguard connections? I forgot to mention that I would like to be able to handle that kind of load on the opnsense box if possible.

I've been running PFSense with the Commell M2-210 (single Intel A/E Key M.2 2230 nic), and the onboard Realtek NIC . I've had absolutely zero problems. I made a 3-D printed adapter for the NIC:
https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...070-thin-client-mini-server.29242/post-281296

I use the 16GB EMMC no problem. There's an option in PFSense to put logs in RAM and flush to disk periodically so I use that. I recall that IDS (e.g. suricata?) requires more disk space (like 250GB), so I you can't use that.

The Ablecon definitely won't work (too long- not 2230).

I haven't tried to use an M.2 NIC in the M/B key format slot. Also dual NIC might be a little tight across the rear - there really is very little extra space - but it depends on how pretty you want it to look.

There is now another pre-built 2230 M.2 A/E single NIC available from alibaba.com, but I haven't tried that.
Where were you able to source the commell nic? Also, do you have a link to the pre-build 2230 m.2 a.e single nic from alibaba?

The single NIC innodisk would be cheaper, but I wasn't sure how stable/performant the realtek NIC's were. How is your PFSense box running using the onboard realtek NIC and the intel addon NIC?
 

cageek

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Jun 22, 2018
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Where were you able to source the commell nic? Also, do you have a link to the pre-build 2230 m.2 a.e single nic from alibaba?
I bought it thru one of Commell's American distributors Global American Inc.:
Commell M2-210 M.2(NGFF) Gigabit Ethernet Card - Global American

Alibaba NIC
There was discussion of the Alibaba NIC & variants for other computers on the STH tinymicrominy thread:
https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-corporate-desktops.29075/page-10#post-290937

There is also this NIC from IOCREST...
M.2(A+E Key) to 10 /100/1000M Ethernet Card,IO-M2F8111H-GLAN
But I could not get it to work. The card never appeared in the BIOS or OS. But I bought it quite soon after product introduction and I only tried one - so the problem might a one-off or solved. Although, even if it had worked, the height of the connectors interfere with the closing of the case, so the connectors on the daughterboard would have to be changed (right-angle instead of vertical). From the pictures, you can see the Commell and Alibaba ones use much smaller pitch connectors.

The single NIC innodisk would be cheaper, but I wasn't sure how stable/performant the realtek NIC's were. How is your PFSense box running using the onboard realtek NIC and the intel addon NIC?
It's running great for me - perfectly stable. Either I'm not using it at high-enough capacity to trigger the problem or the problem no longer exists. My vague understanding of the problem is that the Realtek NIC/FreeBSD driver could get into a kind of buffer overrun/retry problem where it degrades throughput, but I've never seen that. The "fix" (mentioned in the PFSense forums) is to put in a newer OEM? driver, but I did not need to do that - I'm running stock PFSense (which is probably older than OPNSense).
 

vincent81

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Apr 19, 2021
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The 5070 has a SATA M2 slot but you'll need at least 2280 - the 2242 drives don't fit. I don't consider storage speed to be that much of an issue. Frankly, I kept my eMMC untouched and went directly to the M2. If th M2 wears out I can toss it. If the eMMC wears out, I'll have to toss the machine (even though eMMC is surprisingly resilient. My Lenovo tablet from 2013 is still doing just fine with its 32GB chip...although it's always been rather slo
@WANg
Hello and sorry to dig out a snippet from months ago, but I'll soon get my hands on a 5070 and am intrigued by the statement above.
If the eMMC wears out and fails, would it not be possible to put in a fresh M.2 at that point? or in the worst case, a USB drive? Does a broken eMMC block the whole boot process?
 

cageek

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Jun 22, 2018
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If the eMMC wears out and fails, would it not be possible to put in a fresh M.2 at that point? or in the worst case, a USB drive? Does a broken eMMC block the whole boot process?
I think the answer is that it probably will work (since I haven't worn one out). The eMMC does not contain the BIOS or anything else necessary for booting to the M.2. I've used the eMMC alone on one of my 5070s after wiping the whole thing, and an M.2 alone on another 5070.
 
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WANg

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@WANg
Hello and sorry to dig out a snippet from months ago, but I'll soon get my hands on a 5070 and am intrigued by the statement above.
If the eMMC wears out and fails, would it not be possible to put in a fresh M.2 at that point? or in the worst case, a USB drive? Does a broken eMMC block the whole boot process?
Well, the eMMC doesn’t store like a level0 bootloader for the hardware in question, so nothing of real consequence happens if it fails. Of course, I can’t remember if you can specify disabling/turning off the eMMC in the BIOS or deselect it from the boot process, or if it always try eMMC first regardless...
 
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tn00364361

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Mar 11, 2021
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If the eMMC wears out and fails, would it not be possible to put in a fresh M.2 at that point? or in the worst case, a USB drive? Does a broken eMMC block the whole boot process?
I have a model without eMMC soldered and it works just fine with a SATA M.2.
 

pypypy

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Jan 6, 2021
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Should I get this or an optiplex 3040 (micro) for a little server node to put at a friends house. Going to be right next to his couch in the living room so I like how the 5070 is fanless... Costs a bit more when I factor in the m.2 ssd and another 4 gigs of ddr4... does anyone know how silent a 3040 is under load?
 

newabc

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Jan 20, 2019
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A little question on the 5070 thin version: If I use 2 external usb 3.0 stations/enclosures to transfer data by rsync from a 7200rpm HDD to another(both are > 6TB), the host OS is debian 10, will the writing speed reaches over 150MB/s? If not, I will use a desktop computer with an additional USB 3.0 card other than the current 5070 thin. Thanks!
 
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WANg

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A little question on the 5070 thin version: If I use 2 external usb 3.0 stations/enclosures to transfer data by rsync from a 7200rpm HDD to another(both are > 6TB), the host OS is debian 10, will the writing speed reaches over 150MB/s? If not, I will use a desktop computer with an additional USB 3.0 card other than the current 5070 thin. Thanks!
No - there's significant overhead in USB3, there's random seek/read/write times (which impacts hard drives even more with lots of small files), and the throughput is different between 2.5" USB3 and 3.5" USB3 HDDs even if they are 7200 rpm (usually favors big drives). From my experience a USB3 HDD usually maxes out at 80-100MB/sec on copying small amounts of very large files (like videos), but drops significantly r-synching between, say, 2 source trees with tons of small files - often down to 5-10 MB/sec.
 
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newabc

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No - there's significant overhead in USB3, there's random seek/read/write times (which impacts hard drives even more with lots of small files), and the throughput is different between 2.5" USB3 and 3.5" USB3 HDDs even if they are 7200 rpm (usually favors big drives). From my experience a USB3 HDD usually maxes out at 80-100MB/sec on copying small amounts of very large files (like videos), but drops significantly r-synching between, say, 2 source trees with tons of small files - often down to 5-10 MB/sec.
Thanks.

Small files cost a lot of time. I will expect this. My luck is that it is just a sequential reading with small files and then writing since the target drives are empty at the beginning.

On my experience of copying dozens of 2-6GB size files from an internal sata SSD to an external raid1 enclosure with NAS or enterprise 3.5 inch HDDs, iostats will usually display 150MB/s and above on writing. If the target drive is near to be full, it can still get 80-100MB/s.
 

forests_gump

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A little question on the 5070 thin version: If I use 2 external usb 3.0 stations/enclosures to transfer data by rsync from a 7200rpm HDD to another(both are > 6TB), the host OS is debian 10, will the writing speed reaches over 150MB/s? If not, I will use a desktop computer with an additional USB 3.0 card other than the current 5070 thin. Thanks!
happen to read your question, i had a 5070 extended turned into a NAS with its pcie inserted with a jmb585 sata. it hosts some 5400rpm spinners & sdd.

transfer large file size of 8GB~12GB

frm sata 2.5“ 5400 to sdd : 80~90mb/s
frm usb3.0 2.5” 7200 to sdd: 120~130mb/s
 
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WANg

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Thanks.

Small files cost a lot of time. I will expect this. My luck is that it is just a sequential reading with small files and then writing since the target drives are empty at the beginning.

On my experience of copying dozens of 2-6GB size files from an internal sata SSD to an external raid1 enclosure with NAS or enterprise 3.5 inch HDDs, iostats will usually display 150MB/s and above on writing. If the target drive is near to be full, it can still get 80-100MB/s.
Well, from what I read you are copying between 2 external HDDs, so you are dealing with platter seek/access times off a pair of spinners. Usually if you are writing from SSD to disk seek and random access times don’t matter since it’s solid state - the SSD is usually waiting for the disk to finish writing, then it’ll fire directly off the buffer. For HDD to HDD transfers you don’t get that luxury - the source drive takes time to seek, grab and transfer to the USB controller, then the destination drive must seek, allocate, grab from USB and write the files down, so you are often dealing with a fraction (60% being a rule of thumb) of the theoretical drive speeds on external HDD to external HDD transfers. It’s slightly less pessimistic with large file transfers but the results are not nearly as parallelized as one might hope.
 
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newabc

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Well, from what I read you are copying between 2 external HDDs, so you are dealing with platter seek/access times off a pair of spinners. Usually if you are writing from SSD to disk seek and random access times don’t matter since it’s solid state - the SSD is usually waiting for the disk to finish writing, then it’ll fire directly off the buffer. For HDD to HDD transfers you don’t get that luxury - the source drive takes time to seek, grab and transfer to the USB controller, then the destination drive must seek, allocate, grab from USB and write the files down, so you are often dealing with a fraction (60% being a rule of thumb) of the theoretical drive speeds on external HDD to external HDD transfers. It’s slightly less pessimistic with large file transfers but the results are not nearly as parallelized as one might hope.
Today, with 5070 thin and 2 enclosures/stations, on iostats, I got around 110-120mb/s on 1-6g files and 130-150mb/s on 0.5-1g files from a 3TB spinner to a 6TB raid1 spinner pairs. It seems rsync calculates more on a larger file.