Seems a similar case as in the CWWK Alder Lake series. The Case gets pretty good reviews in this thread. Would be nice to know if the case has heatpipes as its bigger brother (probably not). I'll wait until CWWK has this case in their store and ask them about.
Phew, this is an epic thread, thank you to everyone who has contributed! It has taken numerous sittings to get through, but totally worth it because I am looking at these types of boxes on Aliexpress and wondering about the options I mention further below. I wonder if anyone has any comments to help me make an informed choice? I want to use a 4-port device primarily as a home firewall and a VPN client, but with whatever additional security functions are useful as I learn more about all this. Additionally, it would be nice if the thing is able to be repurposed for other modest home network uses in a few years rather than just becoming junk because it's too slow.
A crowdsourced comparison chart is also below. Since the brand new N95 & N100 devices are almost double the cost of the cheap N5XX ones, while only bringing a modest increase in performance (although they ought to create less heat being a smaller fab?), it seems like they may not be worth the extra cost for me yet, especially if DDR5 ram is still expensive. But the old-time 7505U basically splits the difference price-wise, while having performance almost as good as the N95. I am a bit suspicious though as it is an obscure CPU and doesn't appear in these device specs very often. Also I am wondering, since it has only two real cores, and uses those to make 4 'hyperthreads' -- will these kinds of firewall applications do very well in such an environment, or would four slower 'real' cores do just about as well in practice? In which case the popular N5XX would seem the best choice?
@Iko the benchmark results for the N510x aren't very accurate since it's an average of many devices with varying power limits. With the router boxes, the power limit is unlocked, and all cores can boost to what would typically be the max single core boost clock. The N5100 scores 4400 if it's not hitting power limit.
Also I am wondering, since it has only two real cores, and uses those to make 4 'hyperthreads' -- will these kinds of firewall applications do very well in such an environment, or would four slower 'real' cores do just about as well in practice? In which case the popular N5XX would seem the best choice?
I wish the 7505 was available when I bought mines. 2 REAL cores are definitely better than 1 physical core, and the linux kernel will manage them just fine. Just go for the 7505.
Small detail, but relevant: Topton also has an I3 router with this taller case - but here you can see heat pipes, which is not the case for the YSJMNPC version. So the thermals of the shorter one with the holes (which was the best one for the N5105 series) also might be the best for the N100 series. However with a 6W TDP instead of 10W TDP the generated heat should be less a problem, which in the end results for me in waiting for CWWK to present their version of the N100 on their own web page
I wish the 7505 was available when I bought mines. 2 REAL cores are definitely better than 1 physical core, and the linux kernel will manage them just fine. Just go for the 7505.
Thanks @T.Sharp & @DomFel for your replies. I don't understand the distinction between 'physical' cores and 'real' cores, but come to think of it I've heard OpenVPN is limited to a single thread, so I guess the 7505 with its higher single thread speed should do well with that task. The whole reason I began looking at buying a firewall box is that my Asus RT-AC68U runs OpenVPN client at a snails pace, and it seemed hardly worth paying hundreds and hundreds to upgrade it just for that, when it still serves wifi just fine.
I found a reddit thread where someone asks a similar question in connection with OPNsense: "How is Pentium Gold 7505 better than Celeron N5105?" but noone with any actual experience with it has commented there.
In my experience, with the boost TDP tuned properly, I can get all two cores to boost permanently to 3.4 GHz for an almost indefinite time. With a 120mm fan running at 5V, during these tests the worst I've seen is 55°C on the cpu.
My machine is currently running "idle" at 8% cpu load (proxmox, OPNsense, Ubuntu Server, Home Assistant + InfluxDB and Grafana). I've ran a few test with from the proxmox's console both with sysbench and stress-NG and these are the results:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time
Prime numbers limit: 10000
Initializing worker threads...
Threads started!
CPU speed:
events per second: 2505.85
General statistics:
total time: 10.0002s
total number of events: 25063
Hi Iko, I just recently got a N5100 (like in your first link), it is running quite hot idling, but I've not tried to tune it for lower power though nor repaste the cpu. I think you should concentrate on the ones that have better casing with greater surface area.
In my experience, with the boost TDP tuned properly, I can get all two cores to boost permanently to 3.4 GHz for an almost indefinite time. With a 120mm fan running at 5V, during these tests the worst I've seen is 55°C on the cpu.
Ah great, thanks! Leaves just one question - I wonder if the fan they have incorporated runs flat out continuously or if the speed is managed by BIOS using PWM. If you have a 120mm fan, sounds like you're not using the one in this image. I would have preferred the heatsink intact with fan on top, frankly.
Ah great, thanks! Leaves just one question - I wonder if the fan they have incorporated runs flat out continuously or if the speed is managed by BIOS using PWM. If you have a 120mm fan, sounds like you're not using the one in this image. I would have preferred the heatsink intact with fan on top, frankly.
I bought my unit in october last year, so there was no fan inside the heatsink yet. I've added a 120mm fan (a spare I had around, silverstone SST-FN121p) with a 3d printed base on top of the unit, running constantly at 5V on an USB port. The fan doesn't draw much power at 5V, I would guess about 0.5W give or take. I get no useful data out of lsusb -v on the host OS.
The adapter model is available on thingiverse here.
I've added a 120mm fan (a spare I had around, silverstone SST-FN121p) with a 3d printed base on top of the unit, running constantly at 5V on an USB port.
That's rather more elegant than the takeaway food tray on which I have mounted a 120mm fan for my Asus router! I found a video that gives a real look (as opposed to design image) of that new case -- they call it a "G31F" -- with the embedded fan, which they do claim is speed regulated. I am wondering whether there'd be any benefit in drilling three or four holes in the top of the case under the fan for it to draw a tiny draft through the case from some matching holes in the bottom to cool the ram & drive. Maybe not worth the extra dust entering..
I would say do not drill the top of the case. The heatsink side houses the CPU and the four / six i225/226 NIC drivers, everything else (ram, ssd, nvme) is on the other side of the pcb facing the bottom of the unit. Once you add a fan, the heatsink works properly (look at it, it doesn't look to be designed to operate efficiently in an horizontal position) and doesn't bake everything inside under heavy loads.
With the fan running (inside a 9U network rack) on mine the cpu idles at 24-26°C with 19°C ambient temperature. My ssd (sata) is at 26°C.
The internal thermal design looks similar for both CWWK and Topton, but they have different case designs. It will be interesting to see which one performs better. (EDIT: I chatted with CWWK and they said the new design (without the holes on the side) should have better heat dissipation, about 5°C difference.)
From reading the discussion from previous posters, it seems like the CWWK versions sometimes have better build quality compared to other sellers (e.g. TOPTON). It would be nice if we can get STH to review these (especially the new case design one from CWWK).
The internal thermal design looks similar for both CWWK and Topton, but they have different case designs. It will be interesting to see which one performs better.
The CWWK image you posted seems to be off, the finns do not match the other pictures on Ali. And also the next picture with the WiFi antennas is probably not correct (4 USB Ports in front, USB C, HDMI + DP in front). They even speak about two copper tubes. Asking myself what is true. I'll ask them about the cooling, they were always super helpful.
I own a V4 N5105 from CWWK, upgrade with V5 Bios (the problem also occurs with V3 Bios), when NVME Lexar NM620 512GB is installed on slot near SATA port, computer doesn't recognize the NVME, when is installed in the slot near memory the NVME is recognized and boots.
Got it up and running tonight - still learning - and ran into an issue with one of the LAN ports.
ETH3 seems to be dead.
I can not see it in OPNsense or Proxmox.
It also does not start blinking when a LAN cable is plugged in, the other three do this just fine.
Is this a hardware issue, or something else?
Bios setting are back to default.
I opened a case with Ali and connected the seller via chat. Not really usable like this for me. Want to run VM with OPNsense and need 3 port in there (passthrough). Plus the one for Proxmox.
Any experience how they react?
On a different note.
I can not see ondemand as a option for power management in Proxmox.
is this normal? Unit is @11W in ideal.
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