Questions on New Server Build with U-NAS NSC 810A Chassis

[BigServerSmallStudio]

Hello all - cannot believe I stumbled upon this forum after looking for people who may be experts in what I'm trying to accomplish

Per my username, I live in a tiny studio apartment. I have outgrown a 5-bay enclosure and would like to build a QuickSync capable server in the tiniest possible chassis to fit in my TV stand for my apartment, which is where the U-NAS NSC 810A comes into play. So I've embarked on building a system that suits my needs and I've pasted the basic parts list below. I had a few questions specifically for anyone who has built or is familiar with this case after reading some of the threads here:

1. I have been trying to decide going back and forth between the Enhance ENP 7660B 600W, FSP Flex Guru 500W and the Seasonic SS-350M1U. I realized that the Seasonic isn't really "modular" per se (i.e. can't remove excess unused SATA cables or floppy disk cable), so why not go with the shorter 150mm FSP Flex Guru that has more power or go all out with the 7660B.
   • Am I correct to assume that the only cables from my PSU I'll need right now are: (1) 24pin to motherboard (2) 8 pin for CPU and (3) convert two molex from PSU into 4 molex using a splitter to wire the 4 total molex ports on the chassis backpane?
   • Is there any issues I should be thinking of with the non-modular nest of cables that come with the FSP? It is a 4cm shorter PSU so I thought that may help with the unused cables in that set which seem like a lot (1x 8 pin / 2x 6+2 / 2x daisy SATAs / 1x floppy won't be used I think)
   • Is there any bracket issues by using a "Flex" PSU that is 150mm vs. the recommended 190mm Seasonic SS-350M1U which is billed as "1U"? I was reading a few reviews on a similar 300W PSU on Newegg that seemed to imply there is a difference in bracketing between "Flex" and "1U" PSUs
2. I want a mobo that supports at least 8 SATA connections, ECC RAM and Intel QuickSync (IPMI and 10GBe are a bonus). That left me with deciding between the Gigabyte W480M Vision W and the AsRock Rack W480D4U
   • My BIG concern with the Gigabyte W480M is that the 8 SATA ports are right on the edge of the mobo and I want to make sure there is some sort of clearance to actually plug in SATA cables (whether L-shaped or straight). Any help here would be greatly appreciated before I waste $200 on a useless mobo. See below picture of what I'm trying to solve for (bottom two pictures is someone else's build)
3. Since this will be in my studio, running quiet is almost as important as size to me. Are there any specific upgrades or parts you'd focus on to maintain a really quiet server? I was thinking of upgrading the stock fans to Noctua NF12s and getting the 7660B with Noctua A4 20mm, not sure if there's anything else to do to make it silent proof
4. Does my below build accommodate 2 PCI expansion cards later in the future? I was thinking a GPU and a 10GBe card (not sure what else people use their server PCI slots for, any creativity / ideas would also be helpful)
   • I believe the Seasonic won't allow me to add a GPU so I may strike that off my list for just that reason
5. Am I missing any other basic components (cables, extenders etc.) from the below list? I had read negative feedback re: "standard power cables won't reach" and "front panel cables don't reach mobo" so I wasn't sure how exactly to know if my build below has those issues or which specific cables I need if it does have that issue
   • Does anyone know exactly how long power cables I would need from my PSU to "reach everything"?
6. What are some first time tips you'd give for building in this chassis given the tight space?

Case	UNAS NSC-810A
Motherboard	Gigabyte W480M Vision W (LGA 1200)
CPU	Intel Xeon 1.9GHz W1290T (10C/20T)
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-L9i
RAM	16GB DDR4 ECC SDRAM
GPU	not needed right now with Intel QuickSync
PSU	Enhance 7660B 600W (Platinum) or FSP Flex GURU 500W (Gold)
HDDs	8x 16TB WD Easystore
M.2 Drive #1	1TB NVMe 4.0 M.2 SSD (Samsung 980 Pro)
M.2 Drive #2	1TB NVMe 4.0 M.2 SSD (Sabrent Rocket)
HBA Card	Not needed with selected mobo
O/S	Unraid Plus
Other	Noctua NF-S12A PWM Fans (2x)
Other	Noctua NF-A4x10 (PSU Fan Replacement)
Other	PCI-E Riser Cable (10GBe card in future)
Other	Miscellaneous Cables / Extenders?

 

[ullbeking]

I'm a huge fan of the U-NAS 800 and I'm planning on upgrading to a U-NAS 810* or some variation in the next year or so.

What have your experiences with the 810A been so far? Is it noisy?

 

[PigLover]

I have two of these cases running my NAS and backup-NAS. Its kind of a love-hate relationship. As long as you keep it simple they work well enough even with the poor airflow design. If you start adding in PCIe cards the flex riser blocks what little airflow there is and things get pretty hot pretty fast.

On one of the two cases I actually drilled a fan-grill pattern on the top, right over the CPU, and put a thin fan on the inside to push more air in (tried pulling too but pressure seemed to cool better). I don't necessarily recommend it but if your good with tools and don't mind doing a little mod it can work pretty well. Just realize there is already precious little clearance for the HSF on the CPU anyway and you'll need to be sure it all fits. Or, if you don't mind a little more industrial look, you can mount the fan on the outside.

I do not believe you will be able to get cables to onto those angled SATA connectors at the front of that MB. There is very little clearance between the board and the front metalwork in the case. Even with angled cables you'd only be able to get the top one in and the lower connector on each pair would be blocked.

As for cooling, I replaced the rear fans with NF12s and and happy with them (especially when they run slow, nearly silent). The small side fan on the case is shipped as a 3-pin fan and its pretty loud at full speed. On one case I replaced it with a 4-pin fan (don't recall the model - its hard to find that thin 70mm fan in 4-pin). On the other one I just used one of the "low noise" resistor cables that came with the Noctua's to slow it down and its fine.

 

[BigServerSmallStudio]

I ended up purchasing the U-NAS 800 as I found an great deal for the chassis + 400W PSU for $130. I also got the Asrock Z490M-ITX/AC (2.5GbE Realtek + 1GbE Intel), Intel Core i7-10700T, 32GB RAM, 1TB SK Hynix Gold P31 NVMe SSD and I'm using the leftover M.2 slot for this nifty little M.2 to 5-SATA adapter to get the extra SATA ports needed for all the HDD bays.

What's nice about this M.2 adapter is that the JMicron JMB585 chip on it seems to be rated fast enough to handle 5 5400rpm spinners without issue per someone from the Unraid forums who has tested out the controller speed. It was enough to convince me to ditch using an LSI 9207-8i and keep the PCI slot open for something else down the line. I haven't decided what I may use that slot for...been contemplating the below options:

• 10GbE NIC Card
  • Don't think I need that for now as 2.5GbE built into the mobo is probably enough for any local transfers
• Single-Slot, Unpowered GPU like the Quadro P2000 or GT 1030 (not sure if there's anything more powerful than GT1030)
  • If I'm running passthrough on the Intel GPU to docker, I think I will only need this if need GPU hardware acceleration in the VM or I want to connect this Unraid box to my TV for some reason (maybe to run gaming emulator)
• PCI to 4x M.2 Adapter like the ASUS Hyper M.2 Expansion Card
  • Since I will have used all the SATA slots for the HDDs + 1 extra left for a 2.5" drive, if for whatever reason I need more SSD storage, I could potentially use one of these types of adapters
• 3TB+ Enterprise-Grade PCIe SSD (like the Samsung F320 NVMe PCIe SSD)
  • Could use this as a massive Unraid cache drive

JMicron JMB585 PCIe gen3 x2 (1970MBps)

2 x 570MB/s
3 x 565MB/s
4 x 440MB/s
5 x 350MB/s

 

[ullbeking]

I have two of these cases running my NAS and backup-NAS. Its kind of a love-hate relationship. As long as you keep it simple they work well enough even with the poor airflow design. If you start adding in PCIe cards the flex riser blocks what little airflow there is and things get pretty hot pretty fast.

On one of the two cases I actually drilled a fan-grill pattern on the top, right over the CPU, and put a thin fan on the inside to push more air in (tried pulling too but pressure seemed to cool better). I don't necessarily recommend it but if your good with tools and don't mind doing a little mod it can work pretty well. Just realize there is already precious little clearance for the HSF on the CPU anyway and you'll need to be sure it all fits. Or, if you don't mind a little more industrial look, you can mount the fan on the outside.

I do not believe you will be able to get cables to onto those angled SATA connectors at the front of that MB. There is very little clearance between the board and the front metalwork in the case. Even with angled cables you'd only be able to get the top one in and the lower connector on each pair would be blocked.

As for cooling, I replaced the rear fans with NF12s and and happy with them (especially when they run slow, nearly silent). The small side fan on the case is shipped as a 3-pin fan and its pretty loud at full speed. On one case I replaced it with a 4-pin fan (don't recall the model - its hard to find that thin 70mm fan in 4-pin). On the other one I just used one of the "low noise" resistor cables that came with the Noctua's to slow it down and its fine.

WOW!!! The amount of effort you've put into your U-NAS 800's (810's? 810A's? Something else? ... I'm a little confused which exact model you're referring to.)... It really does show the "love" part much of the relationship much more than the "hate" side. I'm definitely not going to mod the case, the reasons for not wanting to do this will become clear in short time.

I empathize completely with you re: the cramped innards of this chassis. There are times I need to do something to mine and it just feels like too much work :-( I'm wondering/hoping that the 810* series will be a little more spacious inside. And I'm not planning on doing anything fancy. It's supposed to run as a "pure NAS".

I also agree it IS noisy, however. But I'm not sure of the cause of this. It could be that I have dodgy WD Reds, or that they need grommets here and there. Or it could just be a loud chassis with loud fans. I'm past the stage where I'm inclined to experiment with swapping out different fans to get a quiet NAS. (I've noticed these same WD Reds make annoying regular clicking noises in my HP Microserver G8's too.)

I'm not too bothered about hot-swap. Quietness is the most important thing of all, so if a different chassis (e.g., a tower chassis) is better for this home NAS in our living room, then fine.

I'm also considering attaching it directly to the primary backup server, via Ethernet or an LSI HBA direct connection between the NAS and the backup server. I'm considering using a Lenovo SA120 for each of the primary and secondary backup servers, as they only need to be powered on when a backup process is active. For the backup server controllers I'll probably use a Supermicro A1SRi-2758F (post-RMA to fix Erratum AVR.54). One thing I like about this set is that it's all repurposeable. Another thing is that all these chassis are short depth.

 

[PigLover]

WOW!!! The amount of effort you've put into your U-NAS 800's (810's? 810A's? Something else? ...

Sorry about that - I did misread the model number in the OPs post - mine are UNAS-810A. And it really wasn't really that much effort - mostly planning, having all the fans, etc., ready when doing the build. Even drilling the fan grill on one of them wasn't that much work. Took longer to find a good template online than it did standing in front of the drill press .

 

[jingram]

I've built 2 of the UNAS-810A setups and while I agree with Patrick, they are super tight and airflow isn't great, for my use they are awesome, and I have them in a makeshift telco closet under my stairs that has no airflow and gets pretty toasty.

Here is the grandaddy thread on these:
U-NAS NSC-810A mATX Chassis | ServeTheHome Forums

And here is one of my build threads:
U-NAS 810a Build - XEON E- Pics | ServeTheHome Forums

The trick is as low power/low TDP as you can get the proc and still provide the overall performance that you want. I used a e-2176g, but would obviously go with an e-2200 series xeon now. I would also look at some of the newer AMD offerings hitting that could make this all work.

Addtionally, one of the best things I did was switch my primary 810a over to purely SSD and bought a second 810, leveraged a SM Power Control Board and added a an LSI 9207-8E which made it a DAS device. Kept the primary 801a much, much cooler with no real heat build up. Works fantastic!

 

[ullbeking]

I LOVE the overall setup that you have specified regarding this NAS/DAS setup!!

First, one thing however...

they are super tight and airflow isn't great, for my use they are awesome, and I have them in a makeshift telco closet under my stairs that has no airflow and gets pretty toasty.

By "tight", "airflow isn't great", and "gets pretty toasty" do you mean that you U-NAS 810A needs to work its fans extra hard to keep it within safe operating temperatures?

The trick is as low power/low TDP as you can get the proc and still provide the overall performance that you want. I used a e-2176g, but would obviously go with an e-2200 series xeon now.

This makes intuitive sense to me too...

Allow me to rephrase to make sure I got the overwiew right... By using an efficient CPU that still gives good performance, the fact that it's not having to be pushed very hard to get it to do what the NAS needs means that it can run more "relaxed" (i.e., the CPU doesn't need to be pushed hard and therefore it doesn't get hot), in turn the fans don't have to work too hard and the NAS runs quieter, which is good for a NAS. Right?

By the way, I wonder whether the U-NAS 810* series should be equipped with a mini-ITX or micro-ATX mainboard? I've seen comments that even though the 810* series can accommodate a micro-ATX board, it is still better to use a mini-ITX board. Is this true?

I'm strongly leaning towards a Supermicro mini-ITX E-2200 board for the U-NAS 810* if I do in fact settle for this chassis. What do you think? (@PigLover ?) This is for a "pure NAS" for now, but I'm going to start researching @jingram 's fantastic idea about getting TWO U-NAS 810* chassis, and using one as a DAS. This sounds awesome.

 

[PigLover]

People say that the 810 series is "tight" and "airflow isn't great" because the MB area on the top is quite small. It exactly fits a uATX motherboard with edges of the board a few mm away from the edges of the case - except on the side where the PSU is mounted. Vertically the MB area is just a couple of inches tall. And the only air "intake" for the MB area is a few really tiny holes on the side of the top cover. So there is little/no transfer of air to take heat away from the MB.

The airflow overall on the case is optimized to cool the drive bays. The 120mm fans in back pull air very efficiently through the drives. They also get get some negative-pressure air pulling on the MB area along the edge of the MB furthest away from the CPU. The small fan on the side of the case is nearly useless...

This is why I drilled a fan grill in the top over the CPU on one of mine. Pushing air in over the CPU creates some airflow across the MB, down by the PSU and out the back. It really dropped the temps in that chassis - with the caveat that you really can't put things on top of it anymore.

Using a mITX might give you some more airflow around the MB, but there is still nowhere for that air to come from which would allow it to move across the MB.

As @jingram says - if you keep the power spec of the CPU reasonable and don't put too much else on the MB to create heat or block the limited airflow then you should be OK. For example, I run E3-1270v6 (72W) so the E-22xx you've been thinking of should do just fine. I don't think I'd try to put a Ryzen 9 in there

 

[ullbeking]

People say that the 810 series is "tight" and "airflow isn't great" because the MB area on the top is quite small. It exactly fits a uATX motherboard with edges of the board a few mm away from the edges of the case - except on the side where the PSU is mounted. Vertically the MB area is just a couple of inches tall. And the only air "intake" for the MB area is a few really tiny holes on the side of the top cover. So there is little/no transfer of air to take heat away from the MB.

Based on my experience with the U-800, which was also very cramped inside, I can believe every syllable of this ten times over. It's just impossible to do any work in there without my poor hands emerging with scraped up knuckles, following by my four year-old daughter wanting to play doctor to heal my hands ;-)

So... If the leeway around the micro-ATX board in the 810 compares at all, or analagously, to that around the mini-ITX in the 800, then I will be use a mini-ITX in an 810, even though I could use a micro-ATX without a moment's hesitation.

To reiterate the point... silent or very quiet operation is the most important requirement to me.

The airflow overall on the case is optimized to cool the drive bays. The 120mm fans in back pull air very efficiently through the drives. They also get get some negative-pressure air pulling on the MB area along the edge of the MB furthest away from the CPU. The small fan on the side of the case is nearly useless...

Just to clarify... your experiments showed that positive air pressure inside this chassis is more effective than negative pressure... is that right?

This is why I drilled a fan grill in the top over the CPU on one of mine. Pushing air in over the CPU creates some airflow across the MB, down by the PSU and out the back. It really dropped the temps in that chassis - with the caveat that you really can't put things on top of it anymore.

I'm slightly warming to the idea of doing some very simple and easy mods to the 810 chassis.
sdf
HOWEVER, I don't like the idea of a top surface that's no longer flat. So I'll leave it alone at first and use the case stock, and I will modify in some way only if necessary. However, my my philoshophy is that once you get to this stage I would rather look at a different NAS with chassis and board combination that is much easier to run at the correct temperature and without fan noise.

Using a mITX might give you some more airflow around the MB, but there is still nowhere for that air to come from which would allow it to move across the MB.

I'm going to take this chance and hope it's sufficient.

I will also ask for advice for mini-ITX E-2220 server boards (see below).

As @jingram says - if you keep the power spec of the CPU reasonable and don't put too much else on the MB to create heat or block the limited airflow then you should be OK. For example, I run E3-1270v6 (72W) so the E-22xx you've been thinking of should do just fine. I don't think I'd try to put a Ryzen 9 in there

Could you please help me find a good mini-ITX board that supports the E-2200? (Or perhaps another board that would also be appropriate?)

At the risk of sounding annoying I'll mention this requirement one last time ;-) Silence or very, very quiet computing ability is the most important requirement for me.

As far as I have been able to find to date, Supermicro has only one mini-ITX board that supports the E-2200: X11SCL-iF.

Unfortunately the X11SCL-iF has only 4x SATA ports, and a single PCI-e x16 slot without bifurcation support :-(

It has two 1 GbE NIC's (dual Intel i210). Even though my infrastructure is not yet equipped to take full advantage of 10 GbE, and it's not a big deal right now... for a NAS this is the kind of thing that you would preferably want to be ready for, eh?

I'm looking at alternatives, such as those discussed here: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/mini-itx-recommendations.23194/

Then it occurred to me...

I already have an ASRock Rack E3C236D2I, which I was using for a server for an unmotivated experiment that wasn't going anywhere. If this board turns out to be suitable then it will have sound its long sought after purpose in life, and may just get the job done Now, considering I have everything I need (except a E3-1200 v6 CPU yet), perhaps I should just use this board in the 810 with something like E3-1280 v6 CPU (72 W TDP), and hope that this won't be too hot. What do you think?!

I still haven't spent much time with the E3C236D2I to know how much I like it, and I already think I'm going to feel a bit "meh" about this one, but if it works well in the application that that will be great, no?!

Obviously, this is not an E-2200 board, which I was quite curious to look into maybe purchasing. Other boards I were considering were the following:

• Supermicro X10SDV-4C-TLN2F (I already have one with a low profile fan attached to the heatsink);
• Supermicro X11SDV-4C-TLN2F ; and
• Maybe, juuust maybe, perhaps I will consider the following board. However I've heard rumours that it's louder than many folks expected: Supermicro A2SDi-H-TF .

Thank you, @PigLover , for all your suggestions and well principled and well researched opinions. I have really appreciated your advice in researching this. I would LOVE to get your opinions on the above ideas, if you have time. Thank you!!

Kind regards,

ullbeking

 

[PigLover]

Just to clarify... your experiments showed that positive air pressure inside this chassis is more effective than negative pressure... is that right?

To clarify: positive pressure created by a fan installed over custom-drilled holes right above the CPU. I do not believe there is any reasonable way in this chassis to get good cooling airflow over the MB without modification (especially to the CPU zone of the MB).

 

[jingram]

Here is the article around the U-NAS Cases as a DAS.

DIY JBOD Chassis. This all I need? | ServeTheHome Forums

Note that I used a CSE-PTJBOD-CB3 as my power control board vs the CSE-PTJBOD-CB2 used in that thread.

Here is a precursor to that build with a different case:

Guide: How to Build a 8-bay DAS Enclosure SATA/ SAS | ServeTheHome Forums

I went with the CB3 power control board because I wanted IPMI to check temps and keep an eye on things. Worked really slick.

As for the board and proc. I went with the X11SCH-LN4F for my board because I wanted to use all 8 drive bays and it had 2 NVME slots. Yeah, it is mATX and just squeezes in there, but that had no real impact on the build. I knew I wasn't going to be putting a video card in the machine and that the e-2176g would cover all of my transcoding needs. Once I pulled all of those spinners out of the primary system and threw them in the DAS, my temps stay VERY low and the box runs really quiet. That being said, I am just not stressing it much either.

Biggest downside is the lack of 10Gb ethernet on the board, but it does have 4 x 1Gb onboard. As Patrick said, things are so tight in there, I can't really make it work well with both an HBA, which I am using for my DAS and a separate NIC.

Overall, I was VERY pleased with the build and it absolutely beat buying an OTS model from somebody. I'm running Server 2019 on mine, but have a friend that is running unraid on his and also loves it.

 

[DebrodeD]

Figured I'd post here in case anyone else finds this thread when considering the U-NAS 810A like I was. I migrated my old server (a dell optiplex SFF i7-7700 with 16GB of ram) and 5 external hard drives into this case and I love it. I preemptively cut a hole in the case above the CPU fan to give it more clearance and alleviate any potential thermal issues. I used a 5" hole saw which perfectly fit a 120MM fan cover allowing for the grommet to be put in place around the edge as well. I also planned to cut a second 70MM fan into the side of the case to serve as another exhaust (where the SSD expansion would normally go), but given my current temps I may not bother.

I'm currently running Windows 10 with Drivepool managing 42TB and it's amazing! I also used a Supermicro PWS-351-1H 350W 1U power supply that you can get on Ebay for $30 and it also fit just fine (though the screw holes didn't align, I used a ziptie to secure it and a screw with a washer to suck it in tight with the back cover, it's very secure).

The case & fans are extremely quiet and my CPU idles around 45-50 degrees Celcius, with hard drives at around 37.

 

[Jorge Perez]

Just wanted to make sure, does this have a SAS or SATA backplane?

Because every picture I've seen has SATA cables connected to the back.

 

[itronin]

Just wanted to make sure, does this have a SAS or SATA backplane?

Because every picture I've seen has SATA cables connected to the back.

For the unas 800 and unas 810 (and a)

passive backplane (no expander) supports single port SAS drives (dual port work with only one port connected) and SATA drives. Sata connectors on backplane are the physical interconnect. Use SAS to SATA forward breakout cable if using a multilane SAS HBA. From my experience, if you use a SAS3 HBA with breakout cable and enterprise SAS3 SSD's I get SAS3 (within drive performance envelope) speeds. There is no OOB management connection for the backplane.

I know that there have been oem versions of the unas 800 that shipped with SFF-8087 to SATA forward breakout cables that ONLY worked with SATA drives. I swapped those in for some digital creations SFF-8087 to SATA forward breakout cables and SAS drives worked fine. FWIW the cable was labeled "SATA".

 

[manifest3r]

I’ve recently purchased the UNAS NSC-810 (yes, the ITX version). Has anyone modified the LED indicators for a failed disk? Does it do it by default? I have email alerting setup in TrueNAS, but a physical indicator would be great.

I've tried sesutils on TrueNAS CORE, but no dice. It can see the backplanes, but LED doesn't respond.