ES Xeon Discussion

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AlexKaz

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Jun 4, 2021
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?? how much, where ?
There are stock leftovers about 350-400 $, in Russia. Our retail stocks now are mainly operate with X13/H12 motherboars because the price of LGA4189 and SP3/LGA4677 approximately the same, but the latest have DDR5. LGA4189 too old (~5 years time lag introduction) and unpopular now a day as a platform with low size cache memory.
 
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AlexKaz

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Jun 4, 2021
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I've uploaded to X12DDW bios v1.0a through SMCIPMITool. Is there any way to make staging bios as current? In the board is installed ES CPU now. If I'l install the final non ES CPU how to make v1.0a as current?

1704299517784.png
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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I've uploaded to X12DDW bios v1.0a through SMCIPMITool. Is there any way to make staging bios as current?
on successfull POST the used BIOS is reported by BIOS/CPU
do you have seen the blue led flashing (BIOS flash) ???
 

AlexKaz

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Jun 4, 2021
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Yes with SMCIPMITool using, May be it works one time, but another tries does not making full update with blue light, only string of staging bios is replacing, and the main BIOS is staying 1.1. Update process through HTML5 interface is not finishing, uploading is stopping on the message of unappropriated downgrading. The system is stopping with FF code (to get it I've run the command "sh SMCIPMITool ip user pass bios postCode").
Well, I think, after replacing ES to final CPU something will be clear. I'll do this tomorrow, it's already late. Thank you for discussion!
 
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RolloZ170

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Update process through HTML5 interface is not finishing, uploading is stopping on the message of unappropriated downgrading
BIOS 1.1 is signed, 1.0a not = not allowed. you have to replace the BIOS chip (soldering, must be done on X12SPL,X12SPM too)
but it is not clear that works then.
 
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AlbertD007

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Jan 1, 2024
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Hi All! Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and happy new year!

Been contemplating weather an ES/QS Saphire Rapids system will be worth the pain till I can buy a real pair of them(dual CPU config).
Can't justify dropping almost the same cash on a cascade system when they don't offer such huge benefit and the cut-down future of the platform... (The single CPU family release) So I am looking at Saphire Rapids then to make my money worth it.

Been eye-balling the MS73-HB1 as the mainboard and looking at these Gold 6430 QS xeons with stepping 6 and rev E3 in this ebay listing ( 176102355125), that is if the ebay seller is to be trusted. My only question is, are the QS xeons worth their increased cost compared to say just an earlier ES pair? Would QS be less hassle/stress?
 

RolloZ170

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Would QS be less hassle/stress?
yes but you don not get what pictured. he shows a prod.unit not a QS.
i don't know why they do that. at the end it is what you see on the CPU-Z screenshot.
btw: this 6430(QS too) is a 4 tile XCC config SPR not MCC single DIE, MCCs have lower IDLE power(40-50W)
 

AlbertD007

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Jan 1, 2024
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Thanks Rollo! Yep so I would be after the XCC types since they offer more and don't mind the higher juice requirements as this is a single machine I use for dev stuff and testing concepts.

I also wondered if the MS73-HB1 board is the right one to get. I see you @RolloZ170 use a MS33-AR0. Any particular recommendations for any board? I was primarily looking at Gigabyte because they are quite liberal about the CPUs they support(QS/ES with D0 stepping and so on...). The single socket boards do look interesting and having a single CPU to worry about is better than 2 :D. Looked at the ASUS W790 Ace & SAGE SE boards they look pretty good, although I need a remote console in case things go weird for some reason so maybe not a good option.

I am intending for this rig to run ESXi most of it's life.
 

RolloZ170

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I see you @RolloZ170 use a MS33-AR0.
I recommended this to someone(because of known ES support) before I found out that SPR ES2 also runs on ASUS W790. He bought it, but then decided to go on ASUS W790 SAGE, I then bought the MS33 very cheaply from him (thx again @JosefHrib)
single socket: MS03 will be better if you want to use long size GPU.
Looked at the ASUS W790 Ace & SAGE SE boards they look pretty good, although I need a remote console in case things go weird for some reason so maybe not a good option
but unfortunaly only SPR-SP D0 ES work, all E steppings not,
 
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AlbertD007

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Ah right! Thanks Rollo, any advice on if I should stick with single socket or with dual socket if I choose ES/QS? Thinking about reliability for another year till a 50+ core option is obtainable.

I see lots of higher end ES platinum Saphire Rappids chips on Ebay for cheap even as combos with the Gigabyte board I am looking at although even post verification and research etc I do wonder if they would have a shorter lifespan?
 

RolloZ170

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any advice on if I should stick with single socket or with dual socket if I choose ES/QS?
with QS or stepping E/S ES(E0-E5,S0-S3) you can choose any motherboard.
but cheap SPR-SP D0 ES2 run only on Gigabyte (confirmed with latest BIOS R01) and ASUS W790.
 

RolloZ170

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I see lots of higher end ES platinum Saphire Rappids chips on Ebay for cheap even as combos with the Gigabyte board I am looking at although even post verification and research etc I do wonder if they would have a shorter lifespan?
stepping D0 is rarely supported, microcode D0 is not supported anymore by intel(19.04.2022)
XCC D0's need more IDLE package power than EV-QS/QS/prod.units.
 

SDletmk

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Dec 30, 2023
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Back to the drawing board of trying to get as many as possible modern GPU lanes for the cheapest possible...
What I need is a motherboard + CPU (including ES) that will also have a low TDP. The goal isn't to make a powerful computer, but one cheap to run while the graphics cards do their work. That brings me to LGA 4189, hopefully to a functional ES model with low power draw.
I was requested to avoid non-US sellers since the status of ES processors is a bit muddy to say the least. That brings me to two potential processors. Can someone please tell me what motherboards these will run on, and if they're expected to be stable?
Intel Xeon Gold 5315Y J003F857 E4 QU9B
Intel Xeon Gold 6336Y ES ES1 QU99

However, I have also read that Sapphire Rapids CPUs can accelerate Stable Diffusion, although I'm still not quite sure how, but also that a proper Intel Xeon w3-2423 is available within budget if a similarly-cheap motherboard is acquired (thus, no need for in-demand Gigabyte). Do all LGA 4677 boards support all processors? I didn't think so, but then I thought I saw something somewhere that said they were interchangeable between workstation and server board. However, it may be a moot point if the w3-2423 isn't even capable of working well with multiple high-spec GPUs at once, considering that I saw a benchmark that suggested was about on par with the i5-12400T.

Lastly, is there any way an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360mm meant for an LGA 1700 could be used to cool either socket?
 

sam55todd

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May 11, 2023
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I have also read that Sapphire Rapids CPUs can accelerate Stable Diffusion, although I'm still not quite sure how...
I think this is because of native support for AMX instruction set (evolution of AVX-512), unlikely IAA or QAT accelerators are involved (and DSA / DLB accelerators are completely for something else).
...Intel Xeon w3-2423 is available within budget if a similarly-cheap motherboard is acquired (thus, no need for in-demand Gigabyte). Do all LGA 4677 boards support all processors? I didn't think so, but then I thought I saw something somewhere that said they were interchangeable between workstation and server board...
Probably another thing to consider is memory bandwidth - W3 will be significantly constrained.
There are desktop/workstation CPUs and Server CPUs, those are hardly interchangeable and different chipsets (motherboards) are designed for different CPU class ( {a} desktop or workstation - vs {b} Server )
Sapphire Rapids are based on Golden Cove microarchitecture - same as P-cores of 12th Gen Desktop model CPUs, therefore in your comparison to i5-12400T (T - have artificially lower specs) is quite fair.
...then I thought I saw something somewhere that said they were interchangeable between workstation and server board...
This is unlikely to be intentional, I would say say it happens by coincidence (same platform architecture after all), not worth relying on this functionality as it may go away or exhibit some stability issues, I do not expect much of a warranties by suppliers for such support.
...However, it may be a moot point if the w3-2423 isn't even capable of working well with multiple high-spec GPUs at once...
Again - severely constrained memory bandwidth (less channels and reduced frequency), since you've mentioned "Multiple GPUs" then also probably taking into account reduced number of PCIe lines on w3 (so if you have all-slots MB - not all might be operational)
Intel Xeon w3-2423 is available within budget if a similarly-cheap motherboard is acquired (thus, no need for in-demand Gigabyte)
Depends on your semantics for "budget", some full-scale SPR QS with all features are available as low as $1500 and dual-CPU boards are going for around $1000 (plus extra cost for DDR5 RDIMMs), although I haven't seen boards with all PCIe lanes implemented in E-ATX form-factor (to put into regular desktop/workstation case), my dual-cpu SuperMicro X13DEI (with single 8461V CPU) despite fitting the case - has lots of PCIe lanes missing (or alternatively X13DAI if you want couple spare PCIe lanes and integrated SoundCard so you won't have to waste another {even x4 bifurcated via splitter cable/board to mount somewhere in a case} slot for it {unless it's USB})
 

AlbertD007

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Jan 1, 2024
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Hey guys, sqw this interesting listing on eBay: 335021831527

I can’t find this CPU listed anywhere on the web… So looks like a fake? But the seller seems to have a good rep though.

The CPU-Z output definitely looks like it’s a production unit but this looks too good to be true?? Unless this unit is some back-office special cooked up for a special use case?
 

AlbertD007

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Jan 1, 2024
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Hey guys, sqw this interesting listing on eBay: 335021831527

I can’t find this CPU listed anywhere on the web… So looks like a fake? But the seller seems to have a good rep though.

The CPU-Z output definitely looks like it’s a production unit but this looks too good to be true?? Unless this unit is some back-office special cooked up for a special use case?
Ah nevermind… This was mentioned by @sam55todd here: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/es-xeon-discussion.5031/post-389973
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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Hey guys, sqw this interesting listing on eBay: 335021831527
I can’t find this CPU listed anywhere on the web… So looks like a fake? But the seller seems to have a good rep though.
The CPU-Z output definitely looks like it’s a production unit but this looks too good to be true?? Unless this unit is some back-office special cooked up for a special use case?
just OEM
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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That brings me to LGA 4189, hopefully to a functional ES model with low power draw.
the ES with D0 prod.stepping are expensive, avoid B0/C0.
I was requested to avoid non-US sellers since the status of ES processors is a bit muddy to say the least
"status" what do you mean ? no matter where from, no intel support and no warranty for ES(QS are ES)
 

SDletmk

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Dec 30, 2023
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the ES with D0 prod.stepping are expensive, avoid B0/C0.

"status" what do you mean ? no matter where from, no intel support and no warranty for ES(QS are ES)
The whole "intel ES are stolen property" thing. I said I was looking at CPUs shipped from Italy and China, they were ES, and I got a bad reaction from above me since stolen property + customs could equal trouble by their logic.
 

RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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The whole "intel ES are stolen property" thing. I said I was looking at CPUs shipped from Italy and China, they were ES, and I got a bad reaction from above me since stolen property + customs could equal trouble by their logic.
they sell ES from intels city. i had NEVER issues with customs, i live in EU, DHL express customs are bandits,
they KNOW they are ES but even intel doesn't care.
apart from that you CAN BE OWNER of a ES/QS, it is intels decision.
the original customer of the ES signed a contract, if he sells the ES HE brakes the rule, the buyer is fine.
in fakt you can not buy a ES, you pay for the service to get the next USER of it.