CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

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lucker

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May 28, 2023
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Does anyone have a box with an additional M.2 PCB? The CWWK's device page on aliexpress CWWK's device page on aliexpress advertises a variety PCB to expand the single M.2 NVME x4 into multiple slots. I encountered the info on other pages (ali as well) that in this case the expanded slots become x1.
Since I can't find a powerful enought box to use OPNsenes / FreeBSD on bare metal with bunch of jails (I need to migrate my VPS server installation, plan to DMZ it) and ZFS mirror, this is the only option, beside CWWK AMD Ryzen (which probably will be noisy and require cleaning). I wonder if anybody tried ZFS mirror with this PCB board.
 
RevAngel

RevAngel

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May 21, 2023
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lucker said:
Does anyone have a box with an additional M.2 PCB? The CWWK's device page on aliexpress CWWK's device page on aliexpress advertises a variety PCB to expand the single M.2 NVME x4 into multiple slots. I encountered the info on other pages (ali as well) that in this case the expanded slots become x1.
Since I can't find a powerful enought box to use OPNsenes / FreeBSD on bare metal with bunch of jails (I need to migrate my VPS server installation, plan to DMZ it) and ZFS mirror, this is the only option, beside CWWK AMD Ryzen (which probably will be noisy and require cleaning). I wonder if anybody tried ZFS mirror with this PCB board.
Click to expand...
On AliExpress there are "under development" sections with the ad-pictures for this, yes. My box came with an expansion board to set the WIFI m.2 connector to a m.2 for PCIe SSD's. So it is either 2 SSD's or one SSD and WIFI. I chose the WIFI.

I would recommend to contact CWWK / Topton for these "under development" boards.

But for your use-case with, probably a Ryzen, I built a system last year that could fit you. A mini-ITX A520 mainboard and a passive-cooling case with 4-heat-pipes (didnt find mine, but it was similar to this - with this case you could use a PCIe low-profile-NIC instead of the m.2 swap), plus an AM4 Ryzen 5600G (now I would go for the 5700G), good thermal grease (depends on case: and an M.2 WIFI to 2.5G NIC swap), plus low-CL DDR4-4733 RAM or DDR4-5300 for the Gigabyte, plus this PICO PSU and a 120W PSU from Leicke, plus m.2 PCIe SSD. Works well tuned (took a lot of tries, BIOS resets and boots, dont forget a pc speaker beeper and forceps to pull the clear-CMOS-jumper) with 16W idle @+10 to 15°C delta to environment. Packs a punch! (5600G / 5700G) But pricey in sum and a lot of effort. I only recommend it if you have time, patience and really want to build your own passively cooled system from scratch without
(which probably will be noisy and require cleaning)
Click to expand...
 
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lucker

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May 28, 2023
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What a rig you have built! Awesome! Especially the lower power consumption. Though it is pricey indeed :) I thought about going this way, but eventually decided in favor of a small "router" box. Having enough time I would probably go for it, but I have to move my VPS till the October, so, not much wiggle room for try and errors. But I appreciate you share this details, maybe later I built a NAS like this and move the services there. Will see :cool:

As for Ryzen box, it is still an option for me, given the price and two NVMe x4 slots. I have even talked myself into the cleaning the box regularly, but the main concern is the heat: the MB and SSDs may not last long because of it, which increase TCO significantly. Normally, my installation (currently on VPS) utilize 2 x cores of Xeon Gold 6140 and CPU load is barely visible. But at night it performs periodic tasks and several times per year I build packages, which result in very high CPU load (building is almost constantly 100%) for hours. This mean the fan on the Ryzen box will be very noisy. And I do not like it, especially at night :)

RevAngel said:
On AliExpress there are "under development" sections with the ad-pictures for this, yes. My box came with an expansion board to set the WIFI m.2 connector to a m.2 for PCIe SSD's. So it is either 2 SSD's or one SSD and WIFI. I chose the WIFI.

I would recommend to contact CWWK / Topton for these "under development" boards.
Click to expand...
I did exactly that today and a nice guy on the other side promised to send me the testing result with pictures in a couple of days. I will post it here.
 
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goh

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Jun 5, 2023
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Becks0815 said:
Already done. I have used a load tester, set it to the values mentioned in the column "Output" and then measured at the wall how much a 12V adapter used as input. I tried an Ulefone PD charger (was laying around), a Ugreen GaN 65W and a Leicke 12V/75W adapter. the yellow values are the corresponding efficiencies. For the PD ones I used such an USB C "dummy" module to force 12V output.



As already said: you lose a lot if you stay below 10W, and to overcome this, you need to bundle multiple devices and use a single adapter, and above 10W they are pretty much the same. I only haven't been able to test the Mean well I also have, because it is used on my router.

What I also haven't done is to test multiple voltages at the same time, something which is handy if you have e.g. a UGreen 65PD with 3 USB connectors and could use them to fire a NAS, a router (both 12V) and a switch (running at 5V).
Click to expand...
Intrigued by this. I am looking to purchase an N100 box from CWWK. I was planning on fitting it with 1GB M.2 NVMe SSD (was thinking SK Hynix P31 to maximize power efficiency) and 8-16GB DDR5 ram.

Very keen on powering via USB-PD to reduce clutter. However, I am worried about peak power usage (not sure whether one should look at an optimized vs unoptimized box, but supposedly the latter). For example, anker has a 45W 2-port usb-c power brick, but if both ports are used they are capped at 25W+20W. I suspect this would probably not handle at-load/start-up peaks very well. What do you think is a good minimum level - 3A/36W, 4A/48W, more? Or is it better to do 1-port 65W supply and split it after the USB-PD 12v trigger? Not very clean, but perhaps more power efficient?
 
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flips33

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Apr 20, 2023
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I ordered Variation A (N200) from "Topton Computer Store" on Aliexpress.

After waiting an entire month for them to even ship the device, I've now received it, but having intermittent issues. About 30-40% of the time, when the unit is powered on, I will get the short beep indicating the device is starting up, followed by 5 short beeps. Or sometimes I get a normal single beep, but nothing appears on displayport output. This can even occur on warm reboots, when saving BIOS, etc. Sometimes power cycling brings it back, sometimes I have to power cycle a few times.

I've cleared BIOS, etc. I've removed the SSD and m.2 wifi -> SSD adapter, unplugged all USB and booted just with memory - problem persists.

I've asked Topton for a manual that includes BIOS beep codes, but not holding my breath. I'm dreading the cost and delay of shipping this back to China for replacement.

edit: I am using a Crucial 32GB DDR5-4800 SODIMM module (CT32G48C40S5), which the vendor said would be fine before purchasing. I don't have any other SODIMMs to test. Is anyone else using this? If not and you have 32GB, could you let me know the model # of the memory you are using?
 
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cessquill

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I'm looking to migrate from a Dell R210 II to an N100 - mainly to make it more power efficient, but also to free up space and make things quieter. Thanks for all the info supplied - trawling through AliExpress is a nightmare!

I currently have openVPN set up and connect to it periodically - will this still run on an N100? I'm not too bothered about its performance, it's typically for when I just need to get onto the network to kick something.


Currently running pfSense, and appreciate that the NICs will not work unless I either migrate to opnSense, pfSense+ or wait a while. openVPN is the only package I've currently got installed. Running with 4 NICs, and never got around to using more than WAN/LAN - this topic has given me a few pointers.
 
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RevAngel

RevAngel

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May 21, 2023
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TLDR: new forum post about this issue.
CWWK/Topton/ N95/N100/N200/N305 quad NIC router 5 BIOS-error-beeps and black screen error


flips33 said:
I ordered Variation A (N200) from "Topton Computer Store" on Aliexpress.

After waiting an entire month for them to even ship the device, I've now received it, but having intermittent issues. About 30-40% of the time, when the unit is powered on, I will get the short beep indicating the device is starting up, followed by 5 short beeps. Or sometimes I get a normal single beep, but the device doesn't buut and nothing appears on displayport output. This can even occur on warm reboots, when saving BIOS, etc. Sometimes power cycling brings it back, sometimes I have to power cycle a few times.
Click to expand...
**EDIT**
Wait, I read your post wrong! DisplayPort and no reboots. Maybe just the same issue with some monitors. Same as I have with one, sometimes two monitors of mine, and someone else reported having issues with that here.

What BIOS-Version do you have? Mine is
American Megatrends (AMI), 5.27, UEFI 2.8; PI 1.7, ADLN 0.01 x64, 04/04/2023 11:42:38.
Can anyone with black screen / 5 BIOS error beep problems please tell us what BIOS version you have?
I asked the topton support about my issues with display out, and they told me that is the latest version. And then they told me to "pls check the system, dear"... Support speech for go f yourself. So I asked again, in a different way.

This sounds like a power or power-spike problem to me, followed by the beep-code for no monitor present or CPU defective. Check out the beep codes here (sadly no english version is to be found).

I would check things in the following order, to see if that triggers the issue:
0) Check the output of the PSU-power-brick with a multimeter. It should roughly meet the label on it.
1) shake the PSU (power adapter to your wall socket). Nothing should fly around in there. Listen to it (hold it to your ear) while booting the PC. Sounds calm, OK, sounds "screechy" (high frequencies) on some parts, change PSU (defective coil / resistor / capacitor).
2) (sounds ridiculous) walk a bit around in the room then touch the computer case (static charged). Does your sitting furniture charge you with static (sit down a couple of times, then touch a heating radiator - ouch=bad)? Check grounding of power over the outer connection of the barrel connector from the PSU and if it is possible (two plastic clothing parts rubbed together work) to charge and uncharge yourself over the minus pole.
3) turn on power saving for the monitor in the OS to 1 minute, let the monitor go to "sleep mode", wake it up.
4) check for a static buildup from your monitors side due to USB connections (remove them) or if it only has a 2-wire connection to the wall socket, twist that 180 degrees and try again (maybe faulty ground wiring in your house). Try the 180 degrees twist to the PC-power-brick too, if it tested OK before.

Sorry for the weird instructions, this is definitely the (nut)case of things I have heard, seen or experienced.

Maybe, since it is now 3 people on this forum who have problems with the DP/HDMI output, it is also connected to that, but that probably would not cause a reboot or fail boot of the PC. ***edited*** because I read wrong.
Mine does beep 5 times too, with the "wrong" monitor, but boots fine and shows video output when the OS is booted. Try hitting <ESC> 5 seconds after the 5 beeps and tell us what happens.

Ah yes, you could order different RAM, in your home country, to check if the problem is persistent or not with that. And return that instead of the PC, depending on the outcome.
Since that happens at cold boot and the error beeps are non-RAM-related that is also out of the question.
 
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RevAngel

RevAngel

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cessquill said:
Currently running pfSense, and appreciate that the NICs will not work unless I either migrate to opnSense, pfSense+ or wait a while. openVPN is the only package I've currently got installed. Running with 4 NICs, and never got around to using more than WAN/LAN - this topic has given me a few pointers.
Click to expand...
Migration is a b*tch, I know. I hate it too. So many things to remeber or forget. Make screenshots of your settings and try (someone told me on this forum thread that baremetal opnsense works OK).
 
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flips33

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RevAngel said:
This sounds like a power or power-spike problem to me, followed by the beep-code for no monitor present or CPU defective. Check out the beep codes here (sadly no english version is to be found).
Click to expand...
I've tested with another power supply, same issues.

RevAngel said:
Maybe, since it is now 3 people on this forum who have problems with the HDMI output, it is also connected to that, but that probably would not cause a reboot of the PC.
Click to expand...
I'm using DisplayPort, not HDMI. And it's not so much an issue with video output - the system just is just intermittently getting stuck on POST (edit: it seems like it is booting, but I have the same "no display" issued). this happens randomly on cold boot, warm restarts, even when saving the BIOS.

Eager to hear any feedback about known-working 32GB modules.
 
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RevAngel

RevAngel

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flips33 said:
I've tested with another power supply, same issues.

I'm using DisplayPort, not HDMI. And it's not so much an issue with video output - the system just is just intermittently getting stuck on POST - this happens randomly on cold boot, warm restarts, even when saving the BIOS.

Eager to hear any feedback about known-working 32GB modules.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I read your post wrong. Edited it while you were answering. I think it does not matter if HDMI or DP is the display out. It is the same chip that is having compatibility issues with some displays, would be my guess.

Mine does beep 5 times too, with the "wrong" monitor, but boots fine and shows video output when the OS is booted. Try hitting <ESC> 5 seconds after the 5 beeps and tell us what happens.
Click to expand...
If you have a bootable OS already installed, so it CAN boot.

If it is a non critical BIOS error (no STOPCODE) it should boot into your OS.

en.wikipedia.org

Power-on self-test - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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Becks0815

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Oct 15, 2022
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About the HDMI: I haven't worked on that issue. I just used a DP monitor to run the initial installation of proxmox and to play around with the Bios settings. Now, with everything running, I run it headless. It might beep 5 times on reboot, but it reboots without problems.
 
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RevAngel

RevAngel

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Becks0815 said:
About the HDMI: I haven't worked on that issue. I just used a DP monitor to run the initial installation of proxmox and to play around with the Bios settings. Now, with everything running, I run it headless. It might beep 5 times on reboot, but it reboots without problems.
Click to expand...
I think I understood that. But maybe we can find a solution with help from the manufacturer. I am not sure that the manufacturer has knowledge about the issue. Changing that could help people who want to use that mini-PC with a monitor output. Or just people that have no access to a workaround like a second monitor or a DP converter.

So I tried to gather some data I can provide to the manufacturer to acknowledge and probably fix the issue with.

Want to help?
 
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flips33

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In addition to Proxmox/OPNSense, I was hoping to run a Frigate NVR container using the intel GPU for acceleration. Proxmox 7.4 doesn't completely detect the intel GPU (/dev/dri is missing). I can see there's going to be so much hacking involved, I'm looking towards Unraid as a hypervisor now, if only for the simplicity in configuring passthrough for OPNSense VM, and native docker for easy access to Intel GPU.

If anyone is interested, it looks like front and rear USB controllers are all connected to a single USB bus, so there's no way to passthrough a controller to a VM unless you want to passthrough all USB ports. Even that may not be possible because this device is in the same IOMMU group: "RAM memory: Intel Corporation Device"

I haven't tested the internal USB header yet, but given there isn't a separate USB controller listed, I think this will have the same outcome:

IOMMU group 0:[8086:46d0] 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Alder Lake-N [UHD Graphics]
IOMMU group 1:[8086:461b] 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Device 461b
IOMMU group 2:[8086:54ed] 00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation Device 54ed
Bus 001 Device 001 Port 1-0 ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 002 Port 1-1 ID 0781:5567 SanDisk Corp. Cruzer Blade
Bus 001 Device 003 Port 1-2 ID 0781:5567 SanDisk Corp. Cruzer Blade
Bus 001 Device 004 Port 1-4 ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub
Bus 001 Device 005 Port 1-7 ID 05e3:0751 Genesys Logic, Inc. microSD Card Reader
Bus 001 Device 006 Port 1-4.1 ID 09ea:0130 Generic Virtual HUB
Bus 001 Device 008 Port 1-4.1.1 ID 1189:8890 Acer Communications & Multimedia
Bus 001 Device 010 Port 1-4.1.6 ID 09ea:0131 Generic Virtual HID
Bus 002 Device 001 Port 2-0 ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
[8086:54ef] 00:14.2 RAM memory: Intel Corporation Device 54ef
IOMMU group 3:[8086:54e0] 00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation Device 54e0
IOMMU group 4:[8086:54c4] 00:1a.0 SD Host controller: Intel Corporation Device 54c4
IOMMU group 5:[8086:54b8] 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54b8
IOMMU group 6:[8086:54be] 00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54be
IOMMU group 7:[8086:54b0] 00:1d.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54b0
IOMMU group 8:[8086:54b1] 00:1d.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54b1
IOMMU group 9:[8086:54b2] 00:1d.2 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54b2
IOMMU group 10:[8086:5481] 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Device 5481
[8086:54c8] 00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation Device 54c8
[8086:54a3] 00:1f.4 SMBus: Intel Corporation Device 54a3
[8086:54a4] 00:1f.5 Serial bus controller: Intel Corporation Device 54a4
IOMMU group 11:[144d:a809] 01:00.0 Non-Volatile memory controller: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd NVMe SSD Controller 980
[N:0:5:1] disk Samsung SSD 980 500GB__1 /dev/nvme0n1 500GB
IOMMU group 12:[8086:125c] 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
IOMMU group 13:[8086:125c] 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
IOMMU group 14:[8086:125c] 04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
IOMMU group 15:[8086:125c] 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
 
RevAngel

RevAngel

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lucker said:
What a rig you have built! Awesome! Especially the lower power consumption.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I was proud to have made it too, especially since I am considered an "old guy" by probably most of the people around here, and have bad eyesight.
lucker said:
But at night it performs periodic tasks and several times per year I build packages, which result in very high CPU load (building is almost constantly 100%) for hours. This mean the fan on the Ryzen box will be very noisy. And I do not like it, especially at night :)
Click to expand...
Well, building is an issue. Even my passive system goes to 76°C when building (set throttling to 75), and the SSD's are on average 5 to 10°C above CPU. That would either require a big radiator to cool passively or, most likely, have to be actively cooled. For that task I personally would go for active cooling, depending on CPU temps. IMO passive does wear out at these temps too fast, and that would be a shame.
 
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fta

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flips33 said:
In addition to Proxmox/OPNSense, I was hoping to run a Frigate NVR container using the intel GPU for acceleration. Proxmox 7.4 doesn't completely detect the intel GPU (/dev/dri is missing).
Click to expand...
Are you running the 6.2 kernel? I'm running a 12th gen cpu (i5 1235u), and gpu passthrough works great in proxmox.
 
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rickybobby

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