So you are going all steam ahead with the ESP32 for PiKVM ? Isn't that going to be a huge project on a Tangent coupled with quite some Maintenance with the old Raspberry Pis ?
EU ASRock Rack B450D4U-V1LQ5 mATX AM4
- Thread starter Cruzader
- Start date
Notice: Page may contain affiliate links for which we may earn a small commission through services like Amazon Affiliates or Skimlinks.
yes, exactly, the esp32 does usb hid for keyboard and mouse and the gpio's do the atx power/reset control.
granted i manage quite well with wake on lan and autoboot on power-on for the moment
Once in a while, like with these boards, a company will get rid of entire servers and the work to part it out isn't worth it them. When that happens, they end up selling for about the same cost as acquiring just the chassis or slightly above it, and you end up usually also getting the power supply, fans, brackets, motherboard, and some other parts left inside.
Then you can usually make it work out for whatever you're trying to do with a drill and a 3D printer.
It's theoretically possible to get 1U to be quiet, but not financially feasible. I did it once with 1U + Ryzen... 3700X? 3800X? Don't remember the exact one but somewhere around there. Will cost around $200-300 to do. But yeah can achieve the same results doing 2U. Nothing crazy just specific expensive fans and such and works better with a longer depth chassis.1U is ***** loud though
Heck even 2U with SATA/SAS Drives is quite loud in Summer.
I think I finally resolved my KVM dilemma. I guess for this to be helpful, there's a lot of use case questions that need to be asked, such as whether or not you need to view more than one, how many you have, and what compromises are acceptable.
I'll test it out once I receive it all but I found the right combination of model numbers to get it all possibly working as low as $3.80 per server not included taxes/shipping (a little bit higher for lower quantities.) The tradeoffs are that you lose (1) HTML5, (2) precise mouse syncing which shouldn't matter, (3) any 2FA/smart card features, (4) virtual media support, this might be a big one, (5) audio support, (6) any chaining, which technically shouldn't be required unless you go past... 64 of them. You do get (A) mouse and keyboard input, (B) over IP although kind of janky.
All of this assumes I'm not wrong and it actually works. If anyone's interested, then this would work best for 16, 32, or 64 systems -- and I don't know how much it would be in Europe.
The pricing is honestly not bad considering it probably costs the same as just a VGA and USB cable.
And then you still plan to do that stuff with the old Raspberry Pi for the Video with HDMI capture via USB ?yes, exactly, the esp32 does usb hid for keyboard and mouse and the gpio's do the atx power/reset control.
granted i manage quite well with wake on lan and autoboot on power-on for the moment
Yeah an alternative could also be a Relay & set Power Recovery after Outage to "ON". The Relay however can be problematic if it starts Switching ON/OFF/OFF by itself after a while (when it's starting to fail). That will NOT be good for the PC
So why did you buy only the Board yourself then
?Or some water cooling custom Loop and a Big Radiator directly outside the House
. Not recommended during Winter though ...Well, I didn't quite understand WHAT the Solution would be. Was it in a previous Post or ?
prices do fluctuate. i got these cse512 cases including 1u power supply for 17.99,- eur /each back in 2017, some of them had 1U angle risers (pcie 3). in fact I only bought the cases with a X9SCL-F to avoid damage of the mainboard in shipping...
so if I sumup a 1u case 3700x compute 32gb ddr4 node small nvme boot ssd, i'm between 100,- eur and 150,- nothing fancy for networking, no big storage... I admit had most of the 'parts' lying around unused.
I meant with junk boards, 10-15 years old. Not the boards you want. The math goes something like this...So why did you buy only the Board yourself then
PSU - $15-30
Board - $20-100
Chassis - $20-80
Fans - $5-10
Heatsink - $5-20
Trays - $3-10
Connectors - $10-30
And let's say you want the chassis, that's $20-80 in this rough example. Or, sometimes you'll have the option to get the PSU + Board (Random) + Chassis + Fans + Heatsink + Trays + Connectors for $30 to $90. It can just work out to your benefit.
And to answer your question, I bought only the boards because I bought 200-300 of what I'm suggesting here for like $20 each a couple years ago.
I don't want to waste everyone's time so let me verify it first. Don't worry if it doesn't work I'll also let you guys know (and why I was dumb.)
Another Option could be to get a proper KVM switch (4 Port or 8 Port, for HDMI/VGA and USB Keyboard/Mouse) and then use the standard PiKVM there, instead of Just the VGA/HDMI Switch. Price is NOT that much higher at least for 4 Ports on Aliexpress.
"Only" Modification would be the soldering of the Change Switch/Button, some GPIO Configuration and some Interface on PiKVM to pre-select the Target Device. And that Switch is a bit of a PITA since you can only Cycle using the same Button.
Much more expensive Solutions for 8 or 10 Ports might also have some Remotre / RS232 Feature, but I think at that Point you better do it yourself anyways.
"Only" Modification would be the soldering of the Change Switch/Button, some GPIO Configuration and some Interface on PiKVM to pre-select the Target Device. And that Switch is a bit of a PITA since you can only Cycle using the same Button.
Much more expensive Solutions for 8 or 10 Ports might also have some Remotre / RS232 Feature, but I think at that Point you better do it yourself anyways.
Holy **** that's CHEAP (the Case)
.Too bad the Market dried up for 3700X & co. I'm kinda tempted to go forward with the 3500X or 3100 Plan for most Systems. Or possibly 5500 although that will be PCIe 3.0.
Was it this one with the X9SCL-F
? 28 Available but 75 USD (even if I somehow manage to negotiate down to 25 USD) WAY more than I'd be willing to shed Money for (since then comes Shipping + VAT + Import Duties on top of that) ...
CSE-512 SUPERMICRO SERVER W/ INTEL i3-2130 / X9SCL-F NO RAM NO HDs TESTED | eBay
SUPERMICRO SERVER. RAM RANGE REQUIRED TO OPERATE: UP TO 32GB DDR3 ECC 1333MHz / 1600MHz, UNBUFFERED. CLEI: NONE. NO OTHER ACCESSORIES ARE INCLUDED.
www.ebay.com
That was my backup option versus actually doing the proper PiKVM/PiKVM Switch Multiport. It's great in a lot of ways, but also iffy in others. Basically, it could theoretically be much better for us, but would take a long time to do properly and without getting deep into it, I wouldn't even know if it would be better or save us money. Endless possibilities, which means more potential for it to be awesome and exactly what we need, or for things to go wrong and at the very least drag us into many more hours of work....
I guess I'll just go ahead and let you know what I'm doing, you've pretty much went down the same rabbit hole. But this is for @luckylinux's eyes only, I'd feel really awful if anyone else tried this out and it became a headache for them.
Raritan Dominion KX2. It's the only KVM switch I could find that has a "proper" control center AND isn't insanely expensive (anymore, it's old) AND can be used remotely (not all of them can at this pricepoint) AND has enough ports for us AND doesn't have some weird required insanely priced license to actually use the product AND is new enough to where the dongles actually use USB (yes, I'm comparing it to models so old they're PS/2.)
Only problem? The "official" dongles for it (DC2CIM-xxx) can also be used for the next version/model and are quite pricey ($15-30 each.)
Well okay, not the only problem, but the one that makes it not attractive on pricing. So I started looking at all dongles that were cheap, then going back and matching them to the KVM switches, and figuring out why it wouldn't work. I'd always end back up at the KX2. If only there was a way to use a dongle not meant for it with it...
The information on all this is pretty lackluster, but I eventually figured out one of the dongles meant for the Raritan Paragon II should work with the KX2. The Paragon II is also a cheaper option if you don't need the specific features on the KX2. The dongle for the Paragon II is P2CIM-USB or P2CIM-AUSB-C (this is the specific newer sub-version I'm looking at using.)
Some potential issues on top of the features you lose is weird compatibility problems in specific scenarios, lag, having it potentially drop off. These are theoretical until I get my hands on it. No official support. Depends on specific firmware version of the KX2, resolution/refresh rates, certain specific models and ports on the KX2 may have issues (there's different number of port sub-models for the KX2.)
Cost?
- $100-160 for the KX2-464 or KX2-864 (64 Ports, I bought mine $100~ plus $20~ shipping for the KX2-864.)
- Other options exist with lower port counts but essentially drives up cost per port. KX2-108, 116, 132, 216, 232, 416, 432, 832
- $2-3 per dongle for the P2CIM-AUSB-C (I bought mine $2.50~ each shipped, versus $1.92 + $0.70 shipping other option.)
And the proper one to get is technically the KX3, which is newer, better in every way like with improved simultaneous user support, HTML5, and so on. However this also means they cost $500-800+
In the end, there's a reason they're so cheap, and I feel like I'm about to find out about many of those reasons (that I missed) very soon.
In conclusion, I just looked it up for EU and I don't think this specific one will work for you given the prices I'm seeing pop up.
Thanks for the in-depth Explanation.
The exact Part Number you gave is indeed crazy priced in EU.
Something more realistic would be IMHO at around 140 EUR + 20 EUR Shipping, but unsure if the KX2-132 1x1x32 USB - DKX2-132 would have the same Features
Cheapest P2CIM-AUSB-C I found is 20 EUR each on eBay. Where did you find yours ?
Otherwise maybe I'd try to use some Unofficial Radxa Zero 3E / Radxa 3C SBC as a ~ half Price Alternative to the Raspberry Pi 4 (GPU/Codec Support kinda sucks but not sure that's relevant if I use the cheap HDMI 2 USB Capture Device, but at least there is some Mainline Kernel Support and it's ~ 19 EUR for the Radxa Zero 3E or 23 EUR for the Radxa 3C, Radxa 2A would be even better at 17 EUR with normal USB instead of USB Type C of the Radxa Zero 3E, but almost no Mainline Support right now
).If only the Raspberry Pi 3 would also work, then there would be quite a few better Deals for those, but then I'd need the Raspberry Pi Pico to emulate Mouse & Keyboard and that adds quite a bit of Wiring & Components to the List.
EDIT 1: I'm starting to think a Custom PCB would be in order since if you have to buy 5 or 6 of these ready to go "Modules" (RJ45 Breakout x 2, USB Type-C OTG Splitter, etc) probably doing a custom PCB would end up being Easier and allow some further customization. If only I weren't so rusty after 11 Years or so after University
Last edited:
Well I kinda mentioned it (I meant the Full, since you need that for ATX Power Control, and the Board is NOT sold separately from what I recall).
EDIT 1: but for ATX Power Control you could in theory just use a single SBC / ESP32 / Pico for all Systems if you wanted a centralized approach, as there is no need to multiplex that too much (and if you need to, you need a simple Multiplexer / Shift Register Chip for like 2 Lines or so, much easier than multiplexing USB or Video).
EDIT 3: the NanoKVM Lite is around 30 EUR by itself though, for a very limited Platform IMHO. I just ordered a couple Radxa SBCs (1x3E + 1x3C) to see if they can do the Job. I will probably need a custom Build of the PiKVM though.
If it works I think I'd go with a 1U enclosure for the "Final" Version, put like 8 SBCs / Ports in each or something like that.
My understanding of the differences between the models, outside of the number of ports, is that there are limitations on the number of users allowed to log in at once, and some vague real-world limitation on how much it's capable of doing simultaneously in terms of using the console based on the underlying hardware. So more RAM, etc. As well as single/dual PSU and single/dual network.
Also eBay, but sellers in the US, not abroad. One of them has high quantities and happens to be a few states away. Sometimes eBay doesn't do a great job at representing the actual cost when it's for multiple units based on how they set up shipping, so I do know one of them will deliver to Europe (I picked France) and without any customs/duties, just the cost of the items and shipping, it looks like it would be about $4.70 each at 24 total quantity.
I'll test them out and I might end up with extras as I'm working out a deal with one of the sellers (I'm getting more to cover all 88 boards even though I only have 64 ports on the first device right now, and still haven't even tested it.) If you're interested, they do end up working, and you don't find a better option by then, I wouldn't be opposed to figuring out how much it'd cost to send them to you and sell any extras at-cost.
What's your actual use case/minimum requirements? I've seen other options along the way that I've just thrown out because it didn't work for us, maybe it would make sense for you.Otherwise maybe I'd try to use some Unofficial Radxa Zero 3E / Radxa 3C SBC as a ~ half Price Alternative to the Raspberry Pi 4 (GPU/Codec Support kinda sucks but not sure that's relevant if I use the cheap HDMI 2 USB Capture Device, but at least there is some Mainline Kernel Support and it's ~ 19 EUR for the Radxa Zero 3E or 23 EUR for the Radxa 3C, Radxa 2A would be even better at 17 EUR with normal USB instead of USB Type C of the Radxa Zero 3E, but almost no Mainline Support right now
I'm only saying this after your edit about custom PCB and talking about putting them in a 1U enclosure.
There's apparently also a custom build of PiKVM that runs on x86. And theoretically... network switches do sure look similar to what we need for the other part of it. You could start a multi-year project on slapping those together. Of course you still need the OTG/capture, anything else, and this wouldn't save any money unless you get investors, buy everything in bulk, and then take it to market to compete with these other $7,000+ brand new multi-port KVM devices.
So you do have some multi-access Capability for some of the different Systems ? Interesting.
I checked ebay.com with "Ship to: US". As usual eBay search SUCKS big Time. Feels like I need to use a VPN just to check Prices ...
Thanks for the Offer. And of course let us know if this ends up working
.I'm not sure if we have a Watchdog on these ASROCK Boards (and if it works as intended) and/or if anybody tested that. Given my Experience on the 5700X where I cannot even read the Fan Speed (all fan Speeds read 0 rpm in GNU/Linux lm-sensors), then I'm not counting much on that. It probably was removed as part of their cost-out Ideas anyways ...
I didn't write a PRS (Product Requirement Specification) yet, sorry
.Jokes aside, I'd say at the very least:
- Be able to access BIOS
- Be able to Issue remote reboots/start/shut-down (need ATX Power Control Board).
- Preferably (at least partially, e.g. Groups of 2/4/8) independent Systems (in your Case if the main Unit gets broken, you lose access to EVERY one of your 88 Devices)
- Target Devices: 24 Devices or Higher (can be 8x4, 4x8, 3x12, 2x12, etc Configuration)
-
- Single user, Homelab, nothing too fancy
Custom PCB for personal use of course. I don't want to spend my entire Life on this
. But at the price of the Enterprise PiKVM I feel like I can get ALL Indipendent Systems DIY using standard Modules anyways. I mean 24 Systems x 60 EUR each ... 1500 EUR even before Optimizations. If PiKVM enterprise sells for 7000 USD then that's already much cheaper even without Grouping and Optimizing.Or using as @dbram suggested a simple VGA/HDMI/USB or full-feature KVM Switch with 4 Ports to "Multiplex" say 4 PCs into 1 RPi.
Last edited:
@dbram : do you think your solution with the I/O Shield would also work with the Supermicro CSE-512L ? I found some very good Deals on those (not sure if they ship to Denmark though) but not sure if the I/O Shield is replaceable and if there is enough room for everything (Motherboard, Fans, ...) overall since the Chassis is significantly shorter Depth.
Yeah i offered on a bunch of lots like these they had asking prices in the 200-400 area, but i offered 20$ per x16 without bracket, 25$ per x16 with bracket and 15$ per other card (connectx3 2x qsfp and connectx4 lx 2x sfp28).
Biggest "discount" was 80$ accepted on a 300 something listing.
Tho i think the offer/accept im the most happy with sofar this year is this one.
23$ accepted for 8x 16gb lot, so a nice 253$ for 88x16gb (1408gb) before shipping/import.
I belive that was the riser, im not using CSE-512 but have a box of angled risers.
A seller ive bought supermicro boards from regularly just leaves them sitting on the board when pulling them from 1u cases it seems.
I guess with their current Economy in Crisis and War they might be a bit more desperate ...
That's RDIMM not UDIMM to be Fair. But yeah, 1.5 EUR / DIMM for 16GB RDIMM is also a Steal
.I would need at least 7 Riser for the CSE-512 that I have. And shopping for those alone is like 20-30 EUR each already
. WAY too much since it seems you get the Server/Chassis for that Price.could work, depends how the default io shield looks like looks like.
i think so since the original io shield design was for X470 in a supermicro.
as long as the original shield from the case has this 1u shield format size (don't mind the connectors on this supermicro X9SCL-F shield).
according to this ebay listing they're similar Supermicro Server Chassis IO Shield SC116 SC512L-200 SC512-200B SC512L-260 SC815 | eBay
but of course no warranty from the designers side