EU ASRock Rack B450D4U-V1LQ5 mATX AM4

[VirMach]

Yeah, I get that I will need to use the BIOS Programmer. I got a couple of CH341A but I'm a bit concerned about the Voltage.

I'm at this stage currently. Just wanted to drop in and say it definitely works, doesn't destroy the chip. Using a random "black" version of the tool. Apparently there's either "black" or "green" (when we're talking about the $8 made in China ones) and I'm using NeoProgrammer instead of the other popular one as that didn't work.

So I'm wondering where you're at right now specifically regarding VGA not working, ECC or any other good stuff, and I noticed the other person you were speaking with (who I don't want to tag, unless he becomes active again) was mentioning some specific settings that match the rabbit hole I'm going down right now.

I've figured out how to import/export bits and so on and have a general idea of what's left to try to get VGA working on the latest BIOS. If I could avoid it (like you already figured it out) let me know, or if you have a version with some improvements already let me know as well as I'd like to use that as my "base" instead so we can maybe have a final version that's most usable. I really don't want to have to do the workaround which involves a GPU.

EDIT -- Alright, testing out a few modified settings and mashed with X470D4U BIOS versions of varying risk levels, wish me luck.

@VirMach: I ordered those Brackets from Supermicro after I sent an Offer to the Seller (8$ / Set of 10x) that he accepted. Turned out to be around 2.6 $ / Pair shipped & including VAT. Not too Bad I guess (22.5 USD plus VAT & Shipping -> 8 USD plus VAT & Shipping).

More or less what the Aliexpress black Bracket was basically .

Now trying to get the Chassis confirmed .

The one where I said "don't quote me on that exact one" right? They're not amazing but should work, definitely better than what you were trying to get in some ways. Going to potentially be a little more complicated with the nuts and bolts, but lucky for you if you do run into troubles I happen to also have a hardware store, a need for rails, and those exact brackets (lots of them.) EDIT -- actually it could potentially be better in some ways if done right. Don't worry I'm probably making it sound way more advanced but keep an emphasis on "a little more" complicated. Let's just say different, and it's due to that little dip. And it can be better because it'll be more flush and "held in" but then you need to make sure it's the right height on the perforated steel.

"Punching" in the steel at a specific point would make it solid. I'm thinking of potentially using a flaring tool for that. First idea is to use a cheap flaring tool meant for copper pipes and seeing if it's strong enough to make a dent.

So seems like we'd be in the same boat again and can share ideas.

I got the KVM dongles in today, I was supposed to go down to the datacenter and try it out but I've spent way too long on the CH341A flashes. I'm so close yet so far.

 

[luckylinux]

I'm at this stage currently. Just wanted to drop in and say it definitely works, doesn't destroy the chip. Using a random "black" version of the tool. Apparently there's either "black" or "green" (when we're talking about the $8 made in China ones) and I'm using NeoProgrammer instead of the other popular one as that didn't work.

So I'm wondering where you're at right now specifically regarding VGA not working, ECC or any other good stuff, and I noticed the other person you were speaking with (who I don't want to tag, unless he becomes active again) was mentioning some specific settings that match the rabbit hole I'm going down right now.

I didn't move at all basically. Still looking for Server Chassis (the guy that was selling 10+ Servers stopped answering me after a few Exchanges), could place the Order since there is some Protection for Buyers, but he didn't go down in Price. 22 EUR/each (including VAT, without Shipping) or 30 EUR/each including VAT and shipping. Looking at the current Market that's a quite good Price for Chassis + PSU though. I miss the Riser and prices for that alone, on eBay, are like another 20-30 EUR /each .

I've figured out how to import/export bits and so on and have a general idea of what's left to try to get VGA working on the latest BIOS. If I could avoid it (like you already figured it out) let me know, or if you have a version with some improvements already let me know as well as I'd like to use that as my "base" instead so we can maybe have a final version that's most usable. I really don't want to have to do the workaround which involves a GPU.

EDIT -- Alright, testing out a few modified settings and mashed with X470D4U BIOS versions of varying risk levels, wish me luck.

The VGA Issues I ONLY had with the 2600X (or 2700X). The 5700X worked out of the Box with L2.09 / L2.12.

What CPU and BIOS Versions did you have Issues with ?

The one where I said "don't quote me on that exact one" right? They're not amazing but should work, definitely better than what you were trying to get in some ways. Going to potentially be a little more complicated with the nuts and bolts, but lucky for you if you do run into troubles I happen to also have a hardware store, a need for rails, and those exact brackets (lots of them.) EDIT -- actually it could potentially be better in some ways if done right. Don't worry I'm probably making it sound way more advanced but keep an emphasis on "a little more" complicated. Let's just say different, and it's due to that little dip. And it can be better because it'll be more flush and "held in" but then you need to make sure it's the right height on the perforated steel.

Not sure I fully understand. But adding 2mm at the Bottom of the Chassis will make it slighly more than 1U, thus the next Server will NOT fit. Is that what you are talking about ?

"Punching" in the steel at a specific point would make it solid. I'm thinking of potentially using a flaring tool for that. First idea is to use a cheap flaring tool meant for copper pipes and seeing if it's strong enough to make a dent.

You lost me there. I don't have such Equipment.

So seems like we'd be in the same boat again and can share ideas.

Seems so

I got the KVM dongles in today, I was supposed to go down to the datacenter and try it out but I've spent way too long on the CH341A flashes. I'm so close yet so far.

Well sounds like you are Way ahead than I am . I didn't actually play with the BIOS Mod or flashing yet.

 

[VirMach]

I didn't move at all basically. Still looking for Server Chassis (the guy that was selling 10+ Servers stopped answering me after a few Exchanges), could place the Order since there is some Protection for Buyers, but he didn't go down in Price. 22 EUR/each (including VAT, without Shipping) or 30 EUR/each including VAT and shipping. Looking at the current Market that's a quite good Price for Chassis + PSU though. I miss the Riser and prices for that alone, on eBay, are like another 20-30 EUR /each .

It's kind of funny how much headache and how little savings these Ryzen boards ended up bringing us in the end. I know in Europe power costs are high, so perhaps this comparison won't mean much, but I have a supplier here in the US that can give us bulk dual Xeon scalable or AMD Epyc servers, with chassis, proper rail kits, heatsinks, the processors, power supply, fans, everything other than memory and disks, for about $70 per unit. More powerful, enterprise-grade, with IPMI. And the memory for those are much cheaper since it's not UDIMM. Half the price if you're comparing to UDIMM ECC.

I know I'm going to have to eventually buy more heatsinks for these and it hurts paying more for those than the boards.

I feel like your total must be much worse than mine, but again, you can point to your electric bill and it makes sense. Over here I can't even do that, industrial electricity rate is like $0.06-0.09/kWh here.

The VGA Issues I ONLY had with the 2600X (or 2700X). The 5700X worked out of the Box with L2.09 / L2.12.

What CPU and BIOS Versions did you have Issues with ?

It's an awesome perk of the 5500. It's Cezanne, which is technically not supported, but it's technically not really Cezanne (it is, they just disabled integrated graphics.) So it technically works, just with extra steps. I've already looked through the BIOS, they don't define anything for Cezanne and my guess at this point is it has to do with the timing for the AST2510 coming up conflicting with CSM. I'm about 15 custom BIOS versions in right now just to avoid having to plug in a GPU for every board, because even if you disable CSM, it loads it as default on CPU swap. Even if you disable CSM in the actual BIOS flash, it loads it as default on boot.

I know it has to be something deep into the setup settings on the BIOS, where it takes the flash and then runs some scripts on top of it on first boot, but those are harder to locate.

Not sure I fully understand. But adding 2mm at the Bottom of the Chassis will make it slighly more than 1U, thus the next Server will NOT fit. Is that what you are talking about ?

Look at how they look, the part where you'd screw it in is flared out (I don't know the right word for it.) And the rails its supposed to go with also does that. It's a "bump" out toward the outer walls of your cabinet. This is technically better in some ways, like you don't have to worry as much about the clearance on your nuts/bolts. But it means for the "best" results you also want to create a bump on your hardware store steel L bars. It'll still work without it, just need longer bolts.

None of the above answered your question, the part I'm talking about is that it actually "hugs" the bar. Which is good, more reinforcement, but bad because now you have to be more precise on the size of your bar. you could also just have it be taller and it'll still work, but you lose that benefit and also lose some clearance on the sides, not on the top/bottom.

You lost me there. I don't have such Equipment.

Look this up, or actually don't because it could end up not working at all, but it's cheap enough plus you can use it for installing a split AC system if you ever get one of those. Actually the more I think about it the more variables there are than I originally accounted for plus it really shouldn't work... but it might.

https://www.amazon.com/Wostore-Eccentric-Aluminum-Refrigeration-Applications/dp/B07LDY4Y2D/

What you really need is a hand operated steel punch (if you're strong) or a hydraulic punch but you're not trying to open a factory in your home. Except not really a punch, you'd get a punch but add a dimple/flare tool to it. I have no idea why I'm going through such lengths explaining this when I could just show you a photo of the rail.



I do actually have a cheap solution to do this "properly" because I had to do it years ago, I just need to remember what it was and I'll spill the beans.

And again it's possible to skip over it, not if you're OCD.

Well sounds like you are Way ahead than I am . I didn't actually play with the BIOS Mod or flashing yet.

Yeah, don't. Well you technically did modify the BIOS for the ECC support with your EFI file, right? But yeah this is a lot different (probably.) I'm staring at hex files all day.

If I do get anywhere with it, I'll share, so you can flash it to a version where you know the VGA might work on all processors, maybe.

 

[luckylinux]

It's kind of funny how much headache and how little savings these Ryzen boards ended up bringing us in the end. I know in Europe power costs are high, so perhaps this comparison won't mean much, but I have a supplier here in the US that can give us bulk dual Xeon scalable or AMD Epyc servers, with chassis, proper rail kits, heatsinks, the processors, power supply, fans, everything other than memory and disks, for about $70 per unit. More powerful, enterprise-grade, with IPMI. And the memory for those are much cheaper since it's not UDIMM. Half the price if you're comparing to UDIMM ECC.

I know I'm going to have to eventually buy more heatsinks for these and it hurts paying more for those than the boards.

CPU Cooler I got from PIOPartsLap the GELID 1U cooler for 3 EUR / Piece .

I'd be interested in those AMD EPYC Servers . Heck even just a Motherboard + CPU from China was 500 EUR !!! But 1U EPYC? I'd prefer 2U.

I feel like your total must be much worse than mine, but again, you can point to your electric bill and it makes sense. Over here I can't even do that, industrial electricity rate is like $0.06-0.09/kW here.

Not in Summer with my Solar System. But in Winter, yeah ....

It's an awesome perk of the 5500. It's Cezanne, which is technically not supported, but it's technically not really Cezanne (it is, they just disabled integrated graphics.) So it technically works, just with extra steps. I've already looked through the BIOS, they don't define anything for Cezanne and my guess at this point is it has to do with the timing for the AST2510 coming up conflicting with CSM. I'm about 15 custom BIOS versions in right now just to avoid having to plug in a GPU for every board, because even if you disable CSM, it loads it as default on CPU swap. Even if you disable CSM in the actual BIOS flash, it loads it as default on boot.

I know it has to be something deep into the setup settings on the BIOS, where it takes the flash and then runs some scripts on top of it on first boot, but those are harder to locate.

Pretty sure, on a related note, that the ECC Support, with my Script, only started working once you enable UEFI Boot. Well you technically need to do that anyways, otherwise you cannot run the EFI Shell Script.

We are starting to have some doubts about ECC Support, since @chlastakov tested with an AMD Ryzen 3 3100 with ECC Memory and it did NOT boot at all. So between conflicting Informations online (all AMD Ryzen CPUs and all AMD Ryzen PRO-APUs support ECC ... except the Ryzen non-PRO APUs that have been turned into a CPU ) and erranous Reports e.g. on TechPowerUp, we are not sure what we can trust to be honest.

The "Feeling" is that non-X CPUs (at least some of them) might NOT support ECC.

Look at how they look, the part where you'd screw it in is flared out (I don't know the right word for it.) And the rails its supposed to go with also does that. It's a "bump" out toward the outer walls of your cabinet. This is technically better in some ways, like you don't have to worry as much about the clearance on your nuts/bolts. But it means for the "best" results you also want to create a bump on your hardware store steel L bars. It'll still work without it, just need longer bolts.

None of the above answered your question, the part I'm talking about is that it actually "hugs" the bar. Which is good, more reinforcement, but bad because now you have to be more precise on the size of your bar. you could also just have it be taller and it'll still work, but you lose that benefit and also lose some clearance on the sides, not on the top/bottom.

Couldnt' I just use a straight Steel Bar of e.g. 5mm Thickness and some Countersunk Screws instead, so that I don't lose those 2mm of alignment for the next Server ?

Basically screw then in as Regular Rails after they have been attached to that Supermicro Bracket with Countersunk Screws ?

Look this up, or actually don't because it could end up not working at all, but it's cheap enough plus you can use it for installing a split AC system if you ever get one of those. Actually the more I think about it the more variables there are than I originally accounted for plus it really shouldn't work... but it might.

https://www.amazon.com/Wostore-Eccentric-Aluminum-Refrigeration-Applications/dp/B07LDY4Y2D/

What you really need is a hand operated steel punch (if you're strong) or a hydraulic punch but you're not trying to open a factory in your home. Except not really a punch, you'd get a punch but add a dimple/flare tool to it. I have no idea why I'm going through such lengths explaining this when I could just show you a photo of the rail.
View attachment 43475

I actually maybe have that Tool. I used to fit clinch Nuts in some Copper Bars, but the Device is so strong (1 Ton of claimed Pressure) and you need to apply so much Force that you end up BENDING whatever you are trying to work on. Surely Copper bends much easier than Steel but still ...

I do actually have a cheap solution to do this "properly" because I had to do it years ago, I just need to remember what it was and I'll spill the beans.

Thanks

Yeah, don't. Well you technically did modify the BIOS for the ECC support with your EFI file, right? But yeah this is a lot different (probably.) I'm staring at hex files all day.

Yeah for ECC only it seems like an easier Solution. But if I lose the BIOS Settings due to the CMOS Battery being Dead and the System disconnected from AC Power, then I'll lose ECC Support too. So I need a Systemd Script at boot to check whether ECC was enabled.

 

[luckylinux]

Weird.

Yesterday I setup a new Motherboard (which arrived as the other with BIOS L2.09) with a used AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (with some Thermal Paste on the underside that I did not manage to remove ... figured out that since it was non-conductive Arctic MX-4 I'll just let it be since I was afraid of bending the Pins otherwise).

Even with the 3000 Series not Advanced Option shows up in the BIOS under AMD CBS .

As soon as I booted into Ubuntu, I could check that indeed ECC has been enabled by default (confirmed by EDAC Messages in dmesg as well as dmidecode that reports Multi-Bit Error Correcting Capability). It's weird that also for the 3000 Series the ECC/Advanced Options do NOT show up in BIOS though.

 

[VirMach]

Weird.

Yesterday I setup a new Motherboard (which arrived as the other with BIOS L2.09) with a used AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (with some Thermal Paste on the underside that I did not manage to remove ... figured out that since it was non-conductive Arctic MX-4 I'll just let it be since I was afraid of bending the Pins otherwise).

Even with the 3000 Series not Advanced Option shows up in the BIOS under AMD CBS .

As soon as I booted into Ubuntu, I could check that indeed ECC has been enabled by default (confirmed by EDAC Messages in dmesg as well as dmidecode that reports Multi-Bit Error Correcting Capability). It's weird that also for the 3000 Series the ECC/Advanced Options do NOT show up in BIOS though.

I fixed the VGA issue for the 5500 (not a proper fix, just a workaround.) I'm not 100% sure what base version I used last as it's been a wild ride, nor if I broke anything else, but I think I may have used the version someone else provided earlier in the thread who mentioned fixing/patching ECC in some way.

I also don't remember this well, but I don't think the other boards that have more proper ECC support have an ECC option. It's supposed to just detect if you plugged in ECC memory and support it, I'm sure some people would probably like being able to buy ECC memory and then disabling the feature for whatever reason, but that's likely why it's usually left off. I assume it defaults to no ECC and you guys maybe had to use the advanced option to try to bring it back since they didn't properly add whatever part of the BIOS would normally detect it and auto switch it on. Same with the 5500 and whatever else lacking VGA, I'm sure their implementation is more advanced, but in the end all it might do is automatically switch over some of the settings I had to tick on manually and get to stick.

I'm going to just make sure I didn't cause any major problems and then I'll provide you guys my version of the BIOS. I did get cheeky I think and do some things like change it to version 2.13 and maybe put in some OEM details though for our chassis or company, because it was always annoying to me when I'd try to quickly check what chassis a server's in and just having everything come back as "To be filled by OEM." So if that bothers you then the version I've been working on might not be desirable.

I still have not figured out the USB though, it doesn't work on 5500. I don't know what other version(s) people reported issues on it but I'm quite ecstatic to not have to swap out a bunch of CPUs and GPUs right now just to get it to have VGA.

It should work on a CMOS reset as well. I'll test that out, I just wanted to come here real quick to do a premature victory lap as I've been staring at this for the past day trying to get it to work.

I'd be interested in those AMD EPYC Servers . Heck even just a Motherboard + CPU from China was 500 EUR !!! But 1U EPYC? I'd prefer 2U.

I don't know if I mentioned this but the reason the motherboards cost more is if you want any flexibility at all, they're a complete PITA to work with and easy to brick. So I guess that's the market price for actually being able to fully utilize your motherboard. Not worth it for us (well we're still going to have to buy those $500 motherboards for other use cases but I'm going to be grumpy when I do it.)

CPU Cooler I got from PIOPartsLap the GELID 1U cooler for 3 EUR / Piece .

Okay that's a steal. I've never seen them that cheap over the last 5 years. I guess Europe's good for heatsinks and motherboards without IPMI.

Pretty sure, on a related note, that the ECC Support, with my Script, only started working once you enable UEFI Boot. Well you technically need to do that anyways, otherwise you cannot run the EFI Shell Script.

We are starting to have some doubts about ECC Support, since @chlastakov tested with an AMD Ryzen 3 3100 with ECC Memory and it did NOT boot at all. So between conflicting Informations online (all AMD Ryzen CPUs and all AMD Ryzen PRO-APUs support ECC ... except the Ryzen non-PRO APUs that have been turned into a CPU ) and erranous Reports e.g. on TechPowerUp, we are not sure what we can trust to be honest.

The "Feeling" is that non-X CPUs (at least some of them) might NOT support ECC.

We're in the non-ECC boat right now, but I might be back on it since I just ordered 3000 series that are not all "X" -- so if that's the case I'll probably try to get that fixed as well. I'm just short on time right now so I can't spend 20 hours for something we're not going to be using, but I've already gone so deep into this stuff I might come back to do it anyway if I figure it out on a non-priority basis.

Keep in mind it'll likely mostly take a lot of luck, I'm not claiming to be a genius. Most of the work you already did for that is beyond my capabilities.

Couldnt' I just use a straight Steel Bar of e.g. 5mm Thickness and some Countersunk Screws instead, so that I don't lose those 2mm of alignment for the next Server ?

Basically screw then in as Regular Rails after they have been attached to that Supermicro Bracket with Countersunk Screws ?

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but I have not yet even once thought about any of this being an issue for the next server up/under. I'll try to demonstrate with some photos since I coincidentally have everything I've mentioned.

I actually maybe have that Tool. I used to fit clinch Nuts in some Copper Bars, but the Device is so strong (1 Ton of claimed Pressure) and you need to apply so much Force that you end up BENDING whatever you are trying to work on. Surely Copper bends much easier than Steel but still ...

Yeah you need a solid work bench/clamps.

Yeah for ECC only it seems like an easier Solution. But if I lose the BIOS Settings due to the CMOS Battery being Dead and the System disconnected from AC Power, then I'll lose ECC Support too. So I need a Systemd Script at boot to check whether ECC was enabled.

Can you let me know how I can quickly verify ECC works? Just so I can check for you to see if my current custom BIOS has that carried over and potentially persistent since I was specifically focusing on making my fix persistent and may have accidentally also done so for the ECC support.

 

[luckylinux]

I fixed the VGA issue for the 5500 (not a proper fix, just a workaround.) I'm not 100% sure what base version I used last as it's been a wild ride, nor if I broke anything else, but I think I may have used the version someone else provided earlier in the thread who mentioned fixing/patching ECC in some way.

Uhm, not sure what the Issue with VGA in your Case is. I had a lot of problems and it never worked with 2600X (or 2700X, cannot remember). 5700X worked out of the Box both for VGA and USB (Front & Rear).

I also don't remember this well, but I don't think the other boards that have more proper ECC support have an ECC option. It's supposed to just detect if you plugged in ECC memory and support it, I'm sure some people would probably like being able to buy ECC memory and then disabling the feature for whatever reason, but that's likely why it's usually left off.

Well, obviously it does NOT work correctly on 5000 Series since it DISABLES ECC by default there, even if ECC Memory is installed.

I assume it defaults to no ECC

That seems to be the Case with the 5700X at least.

and you guys maybe had to use the advanced option to try to bring it back since they didn't properly add whatever part of the BIOS would normally detect it and auto switch it on.

Yes (or turn on UEFI Boot + patch using setup_var.efi + let it sit without Power for a few Minutes).

Same with the 5500 and whatever else lacking VGA, I'm sure their implementation is more advanced, but in the end all it might do is automatically switch over some of the settings I had to tick on manually and get to stick.

I think ASROCK is really good at creating Bugs where Things should just work ...

I'm going to just make sure I didn't cause any major problems and then I'll provide you guys my version of the BIOS. I did get cheeky I think and do some things like change it to version 2.13 and maybe put in some OEM details though for our chassis or company, because it was always annoying to me when I'd try to quickly check what chassis a server's in and just having everything come back as "To be filled by OEM." So if that bothers you then the version I've been working on might not be desirable.

It's good to have Alternatives . I'm still hunting for Chassis,PSU plus obviously the entire PiKVM Thing ... It will be a while before I'll have some Time to play with BIOS Flashing.

Isn't there some kind of Emulator by the Way, where we can test the recompiled BIOS (after Patching), before flashing it into the BIOS Chip ?

That would be very good but I guess it requires some proprietary, very expensive NDA with AMI or something .

I still have not figured out the USB though, it doesn't work on 5500. I don't know what other version(s) people reported issues on it but I'm quite ecstatic to not have to swap out a bunch of CPUs and GPUs right now just to get it to have VGA.

Did you try the USB 3.0 Header with an Adapter (the one that usually goes on the Front of the Chassis) ?

I never managed to get the REAR USB 3.0 Ports to work on the 2700X. With the 5700X it works out of the Box.

It should work on a CMOS reset as well. I'll test that out, I just wanted to come here real quick to do a premature victory lap as I've been staring at this for the past day trying to get it to work.

What should ("it") ?

I don't know if I mentioned this but the reason the motherboards cost more is if you want any flexibility at all, they're a complete PITA to work with and easy to brick. So I guess that's the market price for actually being able to fully utilize your motherboard. Not worth it for us (well we're still going to have to buy those $500 motherboards for other use cases but I'm going to be grumpy when I do it.)

Ah so you are stuck with OEM Systems (Dell ?) without any Freedom to change anything and with Fans that sounds like a Jet Engine at Takeoff, amongst other Things .

Okay that's a steal. I've never seen them that cheap over the last 5 years. I guess Europe's good for heatsinks and motherboards without IPMI.

That's what I offered for 25 Pieces . List Price was way higher than that.

I guess Europe's good for heatsinks and motherboards without IPMI.

Or very old Stuff

 

[VirMach]

Did you try the USB 3.0 Header with an Adapter (the one that usually goes on the Front of the Chassis) ?

I never managed to get the REAR USB 3.0 Ports to work on the 2700X. With the 5700X it works out of the Box.

It's interesting how Cezanne shares the same bugs as Pinnacle Ridge (I'm too lazy to look up if 2700X is actually Pinnacle Ridge, I only recently learned AMD loved mashing things together with naming even if they're not the same.)

I also had that on certain BIOS versions (USB and VGA issues) for the 2600. I should go back and see what BIOS version didn't have those problems and/or what settings and try to compare specific parts of it to see how they ended up breaking it, might be useful in figuring out how to unbreak it.

Yeah, the USB 3.0 header works. I need my rear USBs though for the KVM switch, I'm not about to have some weird back to front series of 5 feet USB extension cable management runs to get it going.

EDIT -- Oh one other interesting thing, it seems to think the Cezanne is Renoir (maybe, so 4000 series.) I bet this might also mean you can technically also use them with 5000G series (I'm not about to spend 30 hours figuring that one out though.)

What should ("it") ?

The modified BIOS. I have a 5800X, 5950X, I know I have a 5700X somewhere but unlikely to be found. Then a 2600, 2700X somewhere (for some reason I misplace all my 700's) and 3800 to 3950X. With the 5500 and 3500's coming in later, I should have a pretty good shot at eventually having a version that works on all of them.

Ah so you are stuck with OEM Systems (Dell ?) without any Freedom to change anything and with Fans that sounds like a Jet Engine at Takeoff, amongst other Things .

The one thing you can almost guarantee won't have DRM or some weird form factor on it is the fans. For some reason they haven't figured out a good way to make their own really weird really expensive fans yet, worst case scenario it's attached to something and you can just pop them out and replace it with a normal form factor one.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen brand new Dell servers, maybe they do have DRM on the fans now, who knows, but the old ones are fine.

 

[luckylinux]

It's interesting how Cezanne shares the same bugs as Pinnacle Ridge (I'm too lazy to look up if 2700X is actually Pinnacle Ridge, I only recently learned AMD loved mashing things together with naming even if they're not the same.)

It's Pinnacle Ridge it would seem

List of AMD Ryzen processors - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I also had that on certain BIOS versions (USB and VGA issues) for the 2600. I should go back and see what BIOS version didn't have those problems and/or what settings and try to compare specific parts of it to see how they ended up breaking it, might be useful in figuring out how to unbreak it.

Yeah, the USB 3.0 header works. I need my rear USBs though for the KVM switch, I'm not about to have some weird back to front series of 5 feet USB extension cable management runs to get it going.

It would be Good to get it fixed of course. But how much Time do you want to lose on that ?

I never did a BIOS Flash Chip Mod until now (only setup_var.efi) so for sure it would take me quite a bit ...

EDIT -- Oh one other interesting thing, it seems to think the Cezanne is Renoir (maybe, so 4000 series.) I bet this might also mean you can technically also use them with 5000G series (I'm not about to spend 30 hours figuring that one out though.)

AMD completely messed up their Naming Scheme. *some* 5000 Series CPUs that are 4000 Series. What an ugly Mess !

The modified BIOS. I have a 5800X, 5950X, I know I have a 5700X somewhere but unlikely to be found. Then a 2600, 2700X somewhere (for some reason I misplace all my 700's) and 3800 to 3950X. With the 5500 and 3500's coming in later, I should have a pretty good shot at eventually having a version that works on all of them.

5800X and 5950X are most likely too high Power for the VRMs on this Thing ...

But anyways, 5800X, 5950X and 5700X should behave the same as far as ECC Support and Architecture goes.

Same should be for 2600X and 2700X I think.

The one thing you can almost guarantee won't have DRM or some weird form factor on it is the fans. For some reason they haven't figured out a good way to make their own really weird really expensive fans yet, worst case scenario it's attached to something and you can just pop them out and replace it with a normal form factor one.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen brand new Dell servers, maybe they do have DRM on the fans now, who knows, but the old ones are fine.

Supermicro did that with a rounded Corner in the Frame so you cannot install any 80mm Fan in it as it is. But you can still (well, if you find them) take an older Version and then mount your standard 80mm Fan. That's a PITA nevertheless.

 

[VirMach]

Just making a comparison of things I've noticed that are different between BIOS version 1.14 and 2.12 - I'm underlining anything that caught my attention related to previous discussions.

• "Node 0 Information" removed in newer version
• "Advanced" is moved under setup, it was previously one level above it in configuration directories, near the end
• "OnChip SATA Type" changed to "SATA Mode"
• Additional "SB USB Configuration" group added to South Bridge with different grouping
• North Bridge has "Above 4GB MMIO Limit" added with failsafe of 512GB
• North Bridge has "Memory Configuration" removed (clock, bank interleaving, channel interleaving, memory clear)
• "Security" has "HDD Security Configuration" moved to sub-folder and 1st to 6th HDD security removed
• Additional "Boot" subfolder added under security, with setup prompt timeout, bootup num lock (moved from Boot)
• Boot subfolder under Boot removed, and placed directly in Boot folder (this is independent from last bullet point)
• Boot folder has "VGA Support" removed (previous default EFI Driver)
• Boot folder has "USB Support" removed (previously default Full Initial)
• Boot folder has other changes, perhaps these were moved somewhere else (poorly?)
• "CSM" has mention of PCIE slot 4 removed
• "Exit" has "Launch EFI Shell from filesystem" added
• "Fch IDE" renamed "IDE Configuration" added but blanked out (moved?)
• PCI Subsystem Settings added "Re-Size BAR Support"
• "Offboard SATA Controller Configuration" added with "Offboard SATA Controller Configuration" sub-folder but blank
• "EUFI NETWORK Drive BBS Priority" added (perhaps moved from Boot)
• "Trusted Computing" has firmware version and vendor added in one of three folders
• Secure Boot "Key Management" renamed to "Export Key Management" with some options removed/reduced
• An additional "Boot" folder for Secure Boot removed

Okay let's compare Advanced Settings specifically now:

• "CPU Configuration" has C6, CPB removed and fTPM --> SPI/LPC/fTPM
• "Chipset Configuration" has Re-Size BAR Support added
• "AST2500 Super IO" has Serial Port 1 Configuration and related removed (this plus the PCIe removal part means 2.12 is for -V1LQ5)
• "Storage Configuration" now has 3 "Storage Configuration" sub-folders where they're split
• "H/W Monitor" has "Watch Dog Timer" moved out and potentially one other thing
• ACPI Configuration has "Lock Legacy Resources" moved out
• "CPU Configuration" has PSTATE Adjustment/C6/CPB removed
• "SIO Common Settings" added with Lock Legacy Resources moved into here instead
• "Network Stack Configuration" added, likely moved in from Boot options maybe?
• CSM has some stuff removed (maybe moved elsewhere?)

 

[chlastakov]

Does anyone tried to test NVMe speed?

• Ryzen 3700X
• 1x M.2 PCIe 5 - slot 2 (x8) using reduction
• 4x U.2 PCIe 4 - slot 1 (x16, biffucation se to x4/x4/x4/x4) using reduction
• Clean Ubuntu 24.04 LTS

All five disk speed was downgraded to 8GT/s

Seagate ZP2000GM30004 (PCI: 0000:01:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 32GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:27:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:29:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:28:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:2a:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Am I doing something wrong?

 

[VirMach]

Does anyone tried to test NVMe speed?

• Ryzen 3700X
• 1x M.2 PCIe 5 - slot 2 (x8) using reduction
• 4x U.2 PCIe 4 - slot 1 (x16, biffucation se to x4/x4/x4/x4) using reduction
• Clean Ubuntu 24.04 LTS

All five disk speed was downgraded to 8GT/s

Seagate ZP2000GM30004 (PCI: 0000:01:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 32GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:27:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:29:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:28:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Micron_7400_MTFDKCC1T9TDZ (PCI: 0000:2a:00.0)
  LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 16GT/s, Width x4, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <256ns, L1 unlimited
  LnkSta: Speed 8GT/s (downgraded), Width x4

Am I doing something wrong?

You have a 4x4 = 16 bifurcated PCIe 4 card connected to x16, with 4x Gen4 U.3 NVMe connected to it? And then one PCIe Gen5 connected to a PCIe 3 x 8?

This is oversimplified and quick math that might be wrong but no matter what, all you have access to is one x16 and one x8, which turns into 2x8 if both are used, on PCIe3, so you "effectively" have 4x Gen 5 lanes (theoretical) which would only theoretically cover your Seagate FireCuda. And you're exceeding that by 8x4 Gen3 (theoretical) lanes so your usage is 32x PCIe 3 (theoretical) lanes over the maximum.

The most you can do on this is 4 x Gen 3 NVMe, two per PCIe slot. Without bottlenecking speeds.

 

[chlastakov]

Never mind, I'm stupid. B450 means no PCIe 4 support. Both slots are PCIe 3.

First is full x16, second x8 with electricly connected x4 only:

 

[luckylinux]

Never mind, I'm stupid. B450 means no PCIe 4 support. Both slots are PCIe 3.

First is full x16, second x8 with electricly connected x4 only:

Not sure I agree on that.

The Manual was written back when the Chipset only supported PCIe 3.0.

But the lanes are directly from the CPU and the CPU supports PCIe 4.0. The Chipset shouldn't matter.

At least that's something I discussed (cannot remember with who, maybe @chlastakov or @dbram) when I was considering using a relatively weak CPU (e.g. AMD Ryzen 3500X). Why should we get a PCIe 4.0 CPU specifically if it will run at PCIe 3.0 anyways ?

But it seems AMD disabled it in BIOS/AGESA:

Question - Does B450 supports PCIE 4 with Ryzen 5000 series processors

I was planning to pair ryzen 5 5600x with MSI b450 pro vdh but i want to know does b450 supports pcie 4.0, I know b450 don't supports 5600x straight out of the box but i can download the bios in usb from my friend's computer, also, people on the internet have have been running 5600x with...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[chlastakov]

Damn, another setback

 

[luckylinux]

Damn, another setback

Don't tell me. I might manage to get a Chassis fairly Cheap, but the Riser alone is 16-30 EUR / each on top .

EDIT 1: do you really need PCIe 4.0 though ? Isn't 4GB/s Bandwidth enough for most use Cases anyways (PCIe 3.0 x4) even with relatively modern NVMe ? Unless you got some SERIOUS Enterprise NVMe, you wouldn't go above 4GB/s for that long (after the Cache/RAM has filled up). Does it really matter if the burst is slightly higher ?

I'd say IOPS >> MB/s at those Speeds anyways.

 

[chlastakov]

Until you want to play with graphic card, 100Gbit networking or something. I wanted them because they are somewhat “modern”. Considering all the costs arround, I could have much more cheaper complete servers with PCIe 3 support

 

[luckylinux]

I'd say an Advantage of Ryzen would be Performance / Watt though, compared to higher end (EPYC, Xeon E5, Xeon Scalable, ...) Platforms.

Not sure how the others PCIe 3.0 Servers would fare in that Regards. My Supermicro dual Xeon E5 2697 v2 surely NOT that great. Let alone that the PCH (Chipset) DMI link is only Gen 2 x4, so 16 gbps !

 

[Cruzader]

Until you want to play with graphic card, 100Gbit networking or something. I wanted them because they are somewhat “modern”. Considering all the costs arround, I could have much more cheaper complete servers with PCIe 3 support

Yeah even already at 10-20pcs you can get complete xeon v3/v4 servers (other than cpu/ram/storage) with pcie3 in the 30-50€ area.
With hbas, 10gbe nics etc
(Ive grabbed some stacks of scalable in the 100€ area but that is a bit more rare.)

The downside is that you are looking at a 30-50w higher power consumption per unit, but if your power rates are okay that will still be bigger savings in hardware cost than the added power cost.

Fell for temptation and picked up a pair of gigabyte R181-2A0 gen 1/2 scalable at 115£/ea today to try them out.
Hopefully not too bad consumption.

 

[luckylinux]

Yeah even already at 10-20pcs you can get complete xeon v3/v4 servers (other than cpu/ram/storage) with pcie3 in the 30-50€ area.
With hbas, 10gbe nics etc
(Ive grabbed some stacks of scalable in the 100€ area but that is a bit more rare.)

What the Hell are you running ? An Amazon Datacenter ?

Fell for temptation and picked up a pair of gigabyte R181-2A0 gen 1/2 scalable at 115£/ea today to try them out.
Hopefully not too bad consumption.
View attachment 43574

Good Seller . I had one bad Surprise once - knock on Wood it stays that Way (Mellanox ConnectX-4 LX NOT working at all, refunded without any Issues though), so make sure you check their Items early on.


EDIT 1:

The downside is that you are looking at a 30-50w higher power consumption per unit, but if your power rates are okay that will still be bigger savings in hardware cost than the added power cost.

with two a 1200W PSU I think it's SLIGHTLY more than 30-50W EXTRA Power Consumption even at Idle