X520-DA2 Combo (SFP + RJ45)

[johnodon]

Hello all.

First post here. I have seen several threads regarding this but want to make sure I am absolutely heading down the correct path.

I am in process of upgrading my home network to 10Gb (internal). My WAN is Frontier 1Gb (soon to be upgraded to 2Gb or possibly 5Gb). A friend gave me an unused HP Elitedesk 800 G4 SFF i7-8700 3.20 GHz 32GB DD4 machine that I intend to repurpose as my firewall/router via OPNSense. I know...overkill but it was free.

I have ordered an X520-DA2 that I want to use for in and out as the Elitedesk has only a single PCI-E slot that is 8x or greater. So, I would like to convery one of the tranceivers on the DA2 to RJ45 (since that is what my external connection is) and leave the other as SFP+ as my switch (not yet bought) will have a 10Gb SPFP+ uplink.

1. Everything I have read indicates that this is possible and easy to do. Is that correct?
2. For the RJ45 transceiver, is this the appropriate hardware: https://a.co/d/6axbyCd
   1. If yes, I see 2 flavors: Ubiquiti and Cisco?
   2. Other (better) recommendations?

TIA for any/all advice!

John

 

[sko]

Instead of noname amazon junk, go for known good vendors of aftermarket optical gear. E.g. we've been using fs.com for many years without any issues. They work great and in the rare case where something doesn't work (or you need some general help) their support is extremely fast and helpful.

Also: if you are just starting to build an optical network, go for singlemode. It is much more future-proof than multimode (which either has to be replaced or you are stuck at a given max bandwidth) and if one day you get a fiber uplink you can easily integrate it into/route it through your existing infrastructure, as WAN has always been singlemode.
Due to that fact, single mode gets cheap very fast because its an absolute mass product. True, new transceivers are slightly more expensive (because they usually use actual lasers instead of cheap LEDs), but are also widely available as used parts for absolute bargain prices. E.g. just ~2 weeks ago I picked up a lot of 20x 10G Huawei SMF transceivers for 4EUR/piece...

FS also has some 1310nm transceivers that are rated for use with SM and MM cabling (but of course the same transceiver on both ends). But as said: if you are starting completely fresh, just go with SM from the beginning.

And no, you don't burn out the optics with short patch cables and you also don't need attenuators as long as you don't use really ancient transceivers that aren't able to adjust their TX-power (i.e. 15-20+ years old...) or go for very-high-power types (100km+ variants, which are very expensive anyways...).

 

[ericloewe]

And no, you don't burn out the optics with short patch cables and you also don't need attenuators as long as you don't use really ancient transceivers that aren't able to adjust their TX-power (i.e. 15-20+ years old...) or go for very-high-power types (100km+ variants, which are very expensive anyways...).

Just a note that LR-type links typically specify a minimum cable length of something like 1 m. So it's really not a problem for any sane deploymet.

 

[sko]

Just a note that LR-type links typically specify a minimum cable length of something like 1 m. So it's really not a problem for any sane deploymet.

IIRC for 'limiting receiver' type transceivers there is no actual minimum length requirement that would relate to the signal levels or possible damage to the transceiver - you could even directly mate the optics together without any intermediate cabling.
The 1m (or sometimes 0.5m) recommendation comes from the possibility of very high reflection interferences from bad connections on such short distances, especially with UPC interfaces. This of course isn't exclusive to singlemode and the same recommended minimum lengts can be found in datasheets of some 850nm (multimode) transceivers. The worst that could happen if you experience this phenomenon is a bad/flapping/dropping connection.

We also have a few links over 0.5m patch cords (for the sake of cleaner and hence safer cabling) and never saw any problems or excessively high signal levels on those.

 

[johnodon]

Thanks for the advice.

As much as I would love to buy something from FS.com, I don't think that the quality/cost is justified when it comes to my boys playing Steam games. Honestly, the most critical activities happening in my house are that my wife and I both work from home 100%.

So, that being said, budget is definitely a factor. All infrastructure is in a single room so cable lengths are not a consideration.

Thanks,

John

 

[nexox]

While that transceiver does support 2.5/5G, the X520 doesn't, the host will just see a 10G link, so if your ONT doesn't have a 10GBaseT port then you may get significant packet loss unless you can limit the transmit rate very carefully. If you have an x4 slot that's plenty for a 2.5/5G NIC.

 

[johnodon]

While that transceiver does support 2.5/5G, the X520 doesn't, the host will just see a 10G link, so if your ONT doesn't have a 10GBaseT port then you may get significant packet loss unless you can limit the transmit rate very carefully. If you have an x4 slot that's plenty for a 2.5/5G NIC.

Or maybe I just use the onboard NIC (1 Gb) until I decide to upgrade to 2Gb/5Gb? My guess is that Fronter would replace teh ONT if/when I upgrade if it doesn't have a capable port.

 

[johnodon]

So, let me ask that question...

Is there a better option than the X520-DA2 that supports 1G/2.5G/5G/10G on all ports (T2 WAN and SFP LAN)? Again...budget is a major consideration since this only a home environment.

John

 

[nexox]

Is there a better option than the X520-DA2 that supports 1G/2.5G/5G/10G on all ports (T2 WAN and SFP LAN)?

2.5/5G on SFP+ is unfortunately not standard and so that's tricky, and I don't know the answers because I run my few 2.5G links through a switch. There are NICs with dual 1/2.5/5/10G RJ45 ports, but then you need a transceiver on the LAN side, and those cards aren't $15 like an X520.

I know it's not for everyone, but I trunk VLANs into a single port on my router and plug my WAN connection into a switch, with an upper limit of 5G WAN you wouldn't really be limited with a 10G trunk.

 

[johnodon]

Am I better off with sometjing like an X550-T2 and just forget about SFP? That can auto-negotiate 1G/2.5G/5G/10G, right?

 

[Dennisjr13]

If you have two slots available it might be more cost effective to get a separate 2.5G card (i226-V?) to go along with an X520 or similar. X550's still go for a premium (since they support 2.5G and 5G).

 

[blunden]

Instead of noname amazon junk, go for known good vendors of aftermarket optical gear. E.g. we've been using fs.com for many years without any issues.

I'm not sure that it makes sense to pay almost 3 times as much for the equivalent FS.com transceiver (the one rated at 100 meter) in a home setup. They use the same chip from what I can tell, so unless the Wiitek build quality is terrible or the EEPROM data is completely broken, I would imagine that they are very similar.

For a business/enterprise setup, going with FS.com, FlexOptix, or a similar vendor obviously makes a lot of sense.

1. Everything I have read indicates that this is possible and easy to do. Is that correct?

2. For the RJ45 transceiver, is this the appropriate hardware: https://a.co/d/6axbyCd

If yes, I see 2 flavors: Ubiquiti and Cisco?

1. Yes.
2. That works well for 10 Gbps speeds. Converting to 2.5 Gbps and 5 Gbps speeds on devices that don't support it natively is harder. There are a few transceivers that can do so pretty well, and a lot that claim to do so but fail miserably at it.

The different flavors are because vendor locking is a thing in the SFP world. Basically, some vendors like Cisco, Intel, etc. refuse to link up when not using their own transceivers. Some of them have ways to disable the vendor lock, but third-party transceiver vendors get around that by simply programming the transceivers with vendor information that make them look like a transceiver from a particular vendor. Ubiquiti doesn't do vendor locking but I suppose they have that as an option for improved compatibility or something.

 

[jdnz]

Am I better off with sometjing like an X550-T2 and just forget about SFP? That can auto-negotiate 1G/2.5G/5G/10G, right?

go with the x550-t2 - not only does it support 1/2.5/5/10 but it's also markedly more power efficient ( needs less cooling ) AND it's pcie3 so you don't need wide slots like you do with the x520 ( which iso only pcie2 ) - you can run both ports fuill 10gbps on pcie3x4 slot

 

[Dave Corder]

So, let me ask that question...

Is there a better option than the X520-DA2 that supports 1G/2.5G/5G/10G on all ports (T2 WAN and SFP LAN)? Again...budget is a major consideration since this only a home environment.

John

There's a Broadcom-based card that's similarly priced on the used market that unofficially supports 2.5G SFP+ modules - they're commonly used for users on fiber ISPs to bypass their ISP's ONT and have the fiber run directly into their router with a GPON SFP+ module. I run the same setup, but with a 2.5Gbps RJ45 SFP+ module in my OPNSense router/firewall to connect to my Xfinity XB7's 2.5G LAN port, and then a 10Gbps DAC to connect to my core switch.

 

[T_Minus]

Your better off using 10Gig and not even considering 2.5 or 5Gig because you're already looking at a new NIC anyway, so just go 10Gig.

If you had 2.5G onboard already like many of us do, then grab a 60-150$ 2.5G switch and call it a day, but if you're buying NICs to upgrade your network then go fiber, go 10Gig, or go 10Gig\25Gig hybrid switch so you can upgrade again in the future if you want. The Mellanox COnnectX 25G card is LOW POWER too, the big cost there is the switch but those are coming down \ becoming more popular at-least.

The above (10 and \ or 25 gig) are suggestions based on power usage for a home environment and, overall low-cost to deploy.


HOWEVER, you can also easily and very cheap go 40Gig\56Gig too... but the switch uses a LOT Of power, is very loud, and the NICs use a bit more than the 10Gig, but not anything crazy. ALL the 40Gig\56 Gig switch, NICs, are VERY VERY cheap, you can get them 'licensed' from the forum here since the licenses are EOL, and then swap from IB to ETH. Myself as well as others have posted about this in other forums over the last few years as prices dropped.


I ended up going with the newer gen intel 10gig (SFP+) NICs for even lower power usage, Ubiquiti 10G switch (Just to match the rest, I have a 12 port new in box netgear\rj45 I'm not using), and then a 2.5G switch that connects to the 10G for my home since I have PCs with 2.5 onboard\built-in already. Selling my 40\56Gig NICs and switches, just because it was never fully deployed, and I got some servers with 100G NICs so I figujred why not? lol, so looking for the 25\100 switches now but they're REALLY pricey, relative to the rest.

Sorry for the brain dump but wanted to share my journey as it may help shape yours and save you time.

 

[sko]

Your better off using 10Gig and not even considering 2.5 or 5Gig because you're already looking at a new NIC anyway, so just go 10Gig.

THIS.

The Mellanox COnnectX 25G card is LOW POWER too, the big cost there is the switch but those are coming down \ becoming more popular at-least.

again THIS - the ConnectX 4 XCAT (10G) are very cheap and can be easily flashed to ACAT (25G) firmware.

HOWEVER, you can also easily and very cheap go 40Gig\56Gig too... but the switch uses a LOT Of power, is very loud, and the NICs use a bit more than the 10Gig, but not anything crazy. ALL the 40Gig\56 Gig switch, NICs, are VERY VERY cheap, you can get them 'licensed' from the forum here since the licenses are EOL, and then swap from IB to ETH. Myself as well as others have posted about this in other forums over the last few years as prices dropped.

40G is dead. If you don't have any hardware already running/lying around I wouldn't buy any 40G hardware. The most expensive part for QSFP are the transceivers and cabling - in this regard 50G is usually often cheaper (used) as it only uses 2 pairs of fiber instead of 4 (which would be 100G with SFP28).
Yes, switches are still a bit more expensive, but anything 'cheap' from the 40G-era is an immense power hog and usually very noisy.

If you're coming from 1G, then 10G is already plenty and will suffice for quite a while - so if budget is a constraint, I'd go for a 10G switch; e.g. if you want a new one, the TrendNet TL2-F7120 which has been reviewed on STH. NICs can already be bought for a 25G upgrade in mind as there's no additional cost involved and as soon as SFP28 (10/25G) switches are available a bit more widely and cheaply, you can upgrade to 25G by simply replacing the switch.

 

[johnodon]

So, I took the path of least resistance and just ordered a X550-T2 as I know this will play nicely with the incoming fiber (ethernet) and outgoing (ethernet) to the switch.

So, onto the next question...the switch...

Would a N9K-C9372TX-E do what I need in regards to 1G/10G on the ethernet ports. Price for used seems right for me and honestly, I would want to make this as dumb as possibe (don't care about manageent and vlans). Maybe at some point I will look to use the uplink ports but not right now.

1. I don't expect my endpoints (PCs, streaming devices, etc.) to be 2.5G or 5G so that is a non-factor.
2. Pretty much everything is 1G with some power devices having 10G. However, I know some TVs and printers still use 100Mb. Will that pose an issue?

John

 

[sko]

(don't care about manageent and vlans).

then why on earth would you want to use a datacenter-switch that is *VERY* loud and draws 375W++??
Just get some cheap, unmanaged switch from aliexpress - plenty of those have been reviewed either by STH or by users in this forum. But for an unmanaged switch there's actually nothing to "review" - they all do what a switch is supposed to do...

 

[johnodon]

I have a wire closet in the basement so noise is not an issue. As far as consumption...never really cared much. Also, mybe someday I will want to learn VLANs and other things so it would be nice if I already had the capability.

Other than that, I guess my main concern is all about the auto-negotiation.

 

[jdnz]

I have a wire closet in the basement so noise is not an issue. As far as consumption...never really cared much. Also, mybe someday I will want to learn VLANs and other things so it would be nice if I already had the capability.

Other than that, I guess my main concern is all about the auto-negotiation.

unless your wire closet has good ventilation you won't want to put a 375W enterprise switch in it - those switches are designed for datacentre use and expect a climate controlled enviroment to dump heat into ( all those fans won't help cool the switch if it's in a closed space with nowhere for the heat to go )