Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report

[cat2devnull]

For those who are keeping track of the hardware of these boards, I recently took delivery of the "new" Topton N5105 4 NIC unit. You can spot the difference because the new boards have ethernet, power, USB, HDMI and DP all on the back side. The older boards have just ethernet and power. I have it with the M.2 A+E to M.2 M key adapter, running a pair of NVME drives in a redundant array using Unraid to virtualise pfSense, Home Assistant, etc.
I replaced the included Dajing PSU just out of an abundance of caution.
I have hit one issue in that it would not see the second NVME drive if they were both Samsung 970 Evo Plus drives but when I ran any other combination it worked fine.
The temps at idle are fine (MB 27 and CPU 33degC) in a 22degC room.
I've included a high res shot of the board and BIOS for those who are interested in the HW differences.
If anyone can confirm the OEM and where to source BIOS upgrades, let me know.

 

[worie]

Thanks. Seems to match the ports and layout seen here.

@worie Is that a mSATA connector underneath the NVMe drive?

Yes, it is. I believe for the not supplied Wifi/BT module. Its staggered underneath the top port, so another 2280 wont fit presumably. Im not using wifi/bt, so its empty.

@worie mine just arrived when I got home. Sadly, back at the airport in <36 hours so I am not sure I will get to open it before then. That is perhaps the most interesting niche case I have heard thus far on one of these.

Let me know if yours has any info on make and model. I've (hopefully) now found a working setup to DMI edit the bios and fill in the missing values. Currently not at home, so I will have to try it sometime in the near future. If I can fix this issue, I believe I will buy 2 more of these through HSIPC on amazon and create a HA cluster out of them. I've compared prices to other mini pcs with 11th gen Intel CPUs and these boxes are around 200 € cheaper and have 6 nics instead of only 1 or 2. Only issue is, that I would have already 18 ports on my 24 port switch busy with just these boxes

 

[bhigh]

The Core i7 6x 2.5GbE version just had its ship notification fire!

I'm waiting on an i5-1135G7 from Topton as well. It shipped on 22-Jun-2022 and the last update was on 24-Jun-2022: "Out for delivery. Leaving transit country"

I'm going to be replacing a Protectli FW4B (J3160 with 4 x i210, appears to be the same as 198.67US $ 25% OFF|Yanling New Nuc Mini Pc Celeron J3160 Quad Core 4 Intel I211at Nic X86 Computer Soft Router Linux Server Support Pfsense Aes-ni - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress)

 

[Patrick]

For those who are keeping track of the hardware of these boards, I recently took delivery of the "new" Topton N5105 4 NIC unit.

Thanks @cat2devnull - I just ordered that one.

 

[ReturnedSword]

For those who are keeping track of the hardware of these boards, I recently took delivery of the "new" Topton N5105 4 NIC unit. You can spot the difference because the new boards have ethernet, power, USB, HDMI and DP all on the back side. The older boards have just ethernet and power. I have it with the M.2 A+E to M.2 M key adapter, running a pair of NVME drives in a redundant array using Unraid to virtualise pfSense, Home Assistant, etc.
I replaced the included Dajing PSU just out of an abundance of caution.
I have hit one issue in that it would not see the second NVME drive if they were both Samsung 970 Evo Plus drives but when I ran any other combination it worked fine.
The temps at idle are fine (MB 27 and CPU 33degC) in a 22degC room.
I've included a high res shot of the board and BIOS for those who are interested in the HW differences.
If anyone can confirm the OEM and where to source BIOS upgrades, let me know.

Does it come with the A+E 2230 to M 2280 adapter or did you have to buy that separately?

 

[cat2devnull]

Topton sell it as an optional extra for $15US and it was shipped preinstalled.

 

[cat2devnull]

Thanks @cat2devnull - I just ordered that one.

This board launched in May (probably just before your video ). I saw it mentioned in a Vedio Talk vlog and thought it looked interesting as they had more modern I/O and native support for dual M.2 (via the adapter) which I consider a must, given how unreliable consumer NVME drives are these days.
Now I don't speak Chinese but according to Google Translate, the vlog description reads "Following the popularity of the V1 V2 version of the N5105, it is now ushering in the mid-year remodeled version V3 version, which will also be the final version of the N5105 series, with improved and optimized layouts."
Can't wait to see what you think of it and if you work out any more about the manufacturer.

 

[Abula]

"Following the popularity of the V1 V2 version of the N5105, it is now ushering in the mid-year remodeled version V3 version, which will also be the final version of the N5105 series, with improved and optimized layouts."

what does ushering mean? using? if i order the Topton n5105 right now will come with v3 or do i need to wait more?

 

[newabc]

what does ushering mean? using? if i order the Topton n5105 right now will come with v3 or do i need to wait more?

I took a look at the comments under the "Vedio Talk" video (link), someone said these products from "Vedio Talk" are manufactured by a company in Dongguan City called "ChangNet"(Its Chinese name "畅网" and brand "CWWK"), and "Vedio Talk" just puts its logo on these products. And "Vedio Talk" indicated on the video title that V3 has only a small improvement from the pervious version: "V3版本年中小改款".

Update:
(1) It is possible that these 4x2.5G nic boards shared 1 or more designs(original designs or modified/copied board layouts from the original), and multiple factories manufacture these boards and more other factories assemble them.
(2) I think the version evolutions of "Vedio Talk" products may be different from Topton.

 

[ReturnedSword]

Topton’s main warehouse is based in Dongguan City.

So after much prodding it seems Topton is now prepared to resolve the issue. They mentioned there is a new 4 NIC motherboard revision coming soon, and after current stock is sold going forward future stock will have at least a 40mm fan mount as standard with a resigned vented bottom panel plate.

 

[dazagrt]

Has there been any throughput specs of the NICs published? ??? packets/s, not just an ipref3 result.

 

[cat2devnull]

what does ushering mean? using? if i order the Topton n5105 right now will come with v3 or do i need to wait more?

You just need to order the V3 part if that's what you want. They generally refer to the V3 as "new" or "newest" in their ads but the easiest way is to look at the spec changes:
1. Added Type-C (supports display and data, note: does not support power supply)
2. Added DP1.4a UHD interface (support 3x4K@60Hz display with HDMI2.0+ Type-C)
3. Added multi-function M.2 2232 KEY to support M.2 NVMe through PCB adapter board
4. Added TF card slot to support large-capacity TF memory card
5. Added CMOS reset button (one-key initialize BIOS)
6. Upgrade the power mode to support 12V-19V wide voltage power supply
7. Upgrade UDE brand 2.5G network port with built-in filter for more stable connection
8. Upgrade minipcie to M.2 2232 KEY supports WiFi6 wireless module
9. Upgrade the bottom cover of the chassis with double rows of cooling holes + 4Omm fan holes + knock-out holes

The motherboard and chassis port layout makes it pretty obvious. See the attached images.
This is the specific one that I ordered but there are plenty that are using the new board/chassis.

They mentioned there is a new 4 NIC motherboard revision coming soon, and after current stock is sold going forward future stock will have at least a 40mm fan mount as standard with a resigned vented bottom panel plate.

Interesting that they are selling both V2 and V3 in the N5105 but want to wait until they sell out of the V2 N6005 before launching the V3.

 

[ReturnedSword]

You just need to order the V3 part if that's what you want. They generally refer to the V3 as "new" or "newest" in their ads but the easiest way is to look at the spec changes:
1. Added Type-C (supports display and data, note: does not support power supply)
2. Added DP1.4a UHD interface (support 3x4K@60Hz display with HDMI2.0+ Type-C)
3. Added multi-function M.2 2232 KEY to support M.2 NVMe through PCB adapter board
4. Added TF card slot to support large-capacity TF memory card
5. Added CMOS reset button (one-key initialize BIOS)
6. Upgrade the power mode to support 12V-19V wide voltage power supply
7. Upgrade UDE brand 2.5G network port with built-in filter for more stable connection
8. Upgrade minipcie to M.2 2232 KEY supports WiFi6 wireless module
9. Upgrade the bottom cover of the chassis with double rows of cooling holes + 4Omm fan holes + knock-out holes

The motherboard and chassis port layout makes it pretty obvious. See the attached images.
This is the specific one that I ordered but there are plenty that are using the new board/chassis.


Interesting that they are selling both V2 and V3 in the N5105 but want to wait until they sell out of the V2 N6005 before launching the V3.

I imagine that the N5105 version is the fastest moving. Newer revisions don’t even seem to have a N5095 option. N6005 likely would be moving much slower.

 

[dazagrt]

This is the specific one that I ordered

Stick an "L" on the end of your link.

191.23US $ 38% OFF|New 2.5g Soft Mini Router Celeron N5105 Quad Core 2*ddr4 Nvme Ssd 4 Intel I225 Nics Hdmi2.0 Dp Type-c Pfsense Firewall Router Pc - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[Abula]

@cat2devnull thank you for the detailed post, i just ordered the v3 you suggested =)

 

[oneplane]

I do love the incredibly fast iterations we get with this very thin amount of overhead between the engineering inside the ODM and the storefront in Aliexpress. It comes with plenty of downsides, but has just as many upsides.

Seems that the design has matured a bit, it's just a matter of time before coreboot will be ported to the SoC/PCH combo and since it's close to the reference designs (like Qotom) it'll be much simpler to have better firmware for it (if it's not Boot Guard locked).

As a repeat: Aliexpress ODM buying is not for the faint of hart or for people expecting a western retail experience; this is not it. On the other hand, if you have the time and experience to deal with it, it can be a great source of useful hardware at a very low price. If not, just get the SuperMicro version for an additional 500 USD and be done with it

The IEI motherboard actually looks great! Now if it were only available, and there was a way to buy a single sample of the chassis rather than volume buy. I wouldn't even be surprised if the motherboard itself required a minimum volume buy for the production run to be worthwhile.

Yeah, I suspect the same, even if we would get IEI boards via the QNAP parts store as a retail purchase option I doubt it'll have a better ecosystem than random stuff from china. Biggest difference would be a more normal retail experience but if everything 'works out' that's basically the same as buying extended warranty for a product that doesn't break

Edit: I just found this German site that appears to have Jasper Lake boards with 1-2 weeks of lead time for a reasonable price (230 euros it seems); no clue if this is for single units in a buy-only-one price but it's an interesting idea if they actually have a way to supply these: 3.5 Inch (WAFER) | Industrial Computer and Components from ICP IEI (you do seem to have to register to see the pricing, and I have no idea if it includes tax)

 

[ReturnedSword]

I do love the incredibly fast iterations we get with this very thin amount of overhead between the engineering inside the ODM and the storefront in Aliexpress. It comes with plenty of downsides, but has just as many upsides.

Seems that the design has matured a bit, it's just a matter of time before coreboot will be ported to the SoC/PCH combo and since it's close to the reference designs (like Qotom) it'll be much simpler to have better firmware for it (if it's not Boot Guard locked).

As a repeat: Aliexpress ODM buying is not for the faint of hart or for people expecting a western retail experience; this is not it. On the other hand, if you have the time and experience to deal with it, it can be a great source of useful hardware at a very low price. If not, just get the SuperMicro version for an additional 500 USD and be done with it



Yeah, I suspect the same, even if we would get IEI boards via the QNAP parts store as a retail purchase option I doubt it'll have a better ecosystem than random stuff from china. Biggest difference would be a more normal retail experience but if everything 'works out' that's basically the same as buying extended warranty for a product that doesn't break

Edit: I just found this German site that appears to have Jasper Lake boards with 1-2 weeks of lead time for a reasonable price (230 euros it seems); no clue if this is for single units in a buy-only-one price but it's an interesting idea if they actually have a way to supply these: 3.5 Inch (WAFER) | Industrial Computer and Components from ICP IEI (you do seem to have to register to see the pricing, and I have no idea if it includes tax)

It’s true that these small Chinese ODM are coming up with interesting designs. I’ve been wishing the tier-2 Taiwanese ODMs to come up with lightweight edge appliances for years, but the only company willing to do so was Jetway and it looks like they gave up on newer designs as well. The quality level between Changwang and Jetway is huge though, and that’s with some of us looking down on Jetway at times for not being tier-1.

I’ve always had a weird affinity for weird or exotic designs. Ah, those ISA/PCI-X SBCs used for co-computing with full Pentium CPUs onboard…

Tbf, I have no doubt these Chinese designs will eventually mature to be “good enough.” The designs certainly fulfill a niche, which is why people are still buying them regardless of the early pains I and others experienced. I didn’t expect perfection, but better responsiveness from Topton when issues arose would’ve been better. Throughout my convos with them I had been polite and patient. I just didn’t appreciate having my leg pulled to delay time. That being said, it was my first experience buying computing stuff from China so your points are quite valid. Lessons learned.

Getting back to Topton though, it seems someone had linked to them this thread. Combined with me telling them I’ll just have PayPal handle the situation, they have become *much* more responsive, giving me a full explanation of what happened/why I got a N6005 ES board. It seems in the rush to fulfill the initial N6005 orders (mine included) they claimed that they didn’t bother to inspect/test boards incoming from ChangWang. They claim that they have been testing all boards by now and that there are no longer ES boards in inventory.

Topton offered to reimburse my return shipping. They also offered me a new V3 model or better equivalent, or a full refund. I haven’t made a decision yet on whether I want a V3 or a refund, but I’ll do that this weekend as Topton has Sundays OOO.

Hope this helps anyone else that got an ES board.

 

[oneplane]

It’s true that these small Chinese ODM are coming up with interesting designs. I’ve been wishing the tier-2 Taiwanese ODMs to come up with lightweight edge appliances for years, but the only company willing to do so was Jetway and it looks like they gave up on newer designs as well. The quality level between Changwang and Jetway is huge though, and that’s with some of us looking down on Jetway at times for not being tier-1.

I’ve always had a weird affinity for weird or exotic designs. Ah, those ISA/PCI-X SBCs used for co-computing with full Pentium CPUs onboard…

Tbf, I have no doubt these Chinese designs will eventually mature to be “good enough.” The designs certainly fulfill a niche, which is why people are still buying them regardless of the early pains I and others experienced. I didn’t expect perfection, but better responsiveness from Topton when issues arose would’ve been better. Throughout my convos with them I had been polite and patient. I just didn’t appreciate having my leg pulled to delay time. That being said, it was my first experience buying computing stuff from China so your points are quite valid. Lessons learned.

Getting back to Topton though, it seems someone had linked to them this thread. Combined with me telling them I’ll just have PayPal handle the situation, they have become *much* more responsive, giving me a full explanation of what happened/why I got a N6005 ES board. It seems in the rush to fulfill the initial N6005 orders (mine included) they claimed that they didn’t bother to inspect/test boards incoming from ChangWang. They claim that they have been testing all boards by now and that there are no longer ES boards in inventory.

Topton offered to reimburse my return shipping. They also offered me a new V3 model or better equivalent, or a full refund. I haven’t made a decision yet on whether I want a V3 or a refund, but I’ll do that this weekend as Topton has Sundays OOO.

Hope this helps anyone else that got an ES board.

That's actually quite an interesting series of events. I'm curious how this all works out. I also had high hopes of a Taiwan Jetway-like ODM/OEM making boards like these but it seems nobody is willing. What's super odd is that we have this NFV and Edge compute devices, DPUs and NPUs, and all of them are essentially network-oriented server-like single board computers; yet nobody bothers to make a Topton/Qotom style small box. Even an Intel NUC with 2 network ports would have been fine.

Back when it was either PCEngines or Jetway, it was easy: both were good, and if you didn't need much power you got an ALIX (or APU now) and if you did need more you got a Jetway. It was a bit expensive for what it was, but it also was the best choice. And now, it seems all of them have gone to sleep and never woke up again. Even boards like the Commell LV-6713 are extremely hard to get and way too expensive. It's like you either have to work with a calculator or a Facebook datacenter and nobody makes something affordable in between.

 

[cat2devnull]

I had the same mixed results with Topton when I was unable to get the system to identify dual Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVME drives. From memory the BIOS would only show the drive connected via the PCB connected to the 2230 A+E port.
They were frustrating to deal with because they spent the first 20 messages denying that the board even supported dual M.2 drives. Even when I sent them the specs and photos from their own website. Then another 20 arguing that I had a faulty NVME drive even after I sent them proof that both drives worked individually.
Eventually they did actually get an engineer involved and confirmed that dual drives should work and did some in-house testing. Unfortunately they didn't have any Samsung drives handy so couldn't replicate my fault specifically.
As soon as I had a work around (using Seagate) they ghosted me from that point on. I agree that this is a weird issue probably to do with enumerating the PCIe devices and outside anything that they can directly address, but unless they feed it back to the OEM then it isn't going to get fixed.
I also understand that 99% of support tickets are PEBKAC, there is a language barrier and at $200US there isn't a lot of room for gold class support...

 

[ReturnedSword]

That's actually quite an interesting series of events. I'm curious how this all works out. I also had high hopes of a Taiwan Jetway-like ODM/OEM making boards like these but it seems nobody is willing. What's super odd is that we have this NFV and Edge compute devices, DPUs and NPUs, and all of them are essentially network-oriented server-like single board computers; yet nobody bothers to make a Topton/Qotom style small box. Even an Intel NUC with 2 network ports would have been fine.

Back when it was either PCEngines or Jetway, it was easy: both were good, and if you didn't need much power you got an ALIX (or APU now) and if you did need more you got a Jetway. It was a bit expensive for what it was, but it also was the best choice. And now, it seems all of them have gone to sleep and never woke up again. Even boards like the Commell LV-6713 are extremely hard to get and way too expensive. It's like you either have to work with a calculator or a Facebook datacenter and nobody makes something affordable in between.

Yeah, Jetway is still stuck on 2016 Braswell (!) parts for their low power network appliance boards. I guess generational performance for Atom, it didn’t have much change. Jasper Lake/Elkhart Lake parts are a huge performance bump compared to Goldmont cores though… and Braswell is based on the even older Airmont. On Jetway’s higher performance boards those are mostly stuck with Kaby Lake/Skylake with the accompanying low core count. Jetway, is it that *hard* to update to a minimum of Coffee Lake to get more cores?

Then there’s the concerning trend with Taiwanese ODMs where they are slow on updates/availability. I’ve been noticing ASRock Rack, which are one of my go-to motherboards when something from Supermicro isn’t warranted have been soft releasing many boards even before the pandemic supply chain issues. Quite a few ASRock boards are either not available, or they have switched to BTO with the accompanying minimum production run required. Same goes for Tyan.

PCEngines used to be so great. I’ve used many an ALIX or APU/APU2 going back to the m0n0wall days, but the hardware is just simply dated. I have wondered what is going on their side as well. Compulab has the fitlet line which is pretty interesting. I had considered the fitlet3 with dual NIC expansion module, but aside from being annoyed cables would come out in multiple sides (especially Ethernet cables), they also missed a chance to jump on the i225 NIC bandwagon.