Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report

xShARkx

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Its seems that the n6005 version is not a good a choice, at least not from topton! I know they are like just "resellers" and not really the manufactures of the motherboard and etc, but there might be other "resellers" out there which are not sending ES cpu's for the n6005 model.

To me it seems like a chip shortage, is making them just sell what they can get their hands on, which is sad :(

But i'll be honest i am still curious about this other version:


PS: This one right now is costing $ 150,00

Which has a different motherboard and chassis, and they seem more refined with the cpu better aligned with the thermal solution. And for me, as long as they don't send an ES chip but a production\retail one, the thermal solution can be fixed with DIY since these are sooo cheap.

Also there is this \/

"There’s a review left on AliExpress which describes the measures taken to lower the temperature:


## Bios/Uefi settings ##
– Advanced
– CPU – Power Management Control
– View/Configure Turbo Options
– Power Limit 2 Override [Enabled]
– Power Limit 2 22000
– CPU VR Settings
– PSYS PMax Power 176
– Acoustic Noise Settings
– Acoustic Noise Mitigation [Enable]
– Slow Slew Rate for Vccln Domain [Fast/16]
– C states [Enabled]

## Case mods ##
– Add 2x 1.5mm (or one 4mm) thermal pad on all smd coil inductors
– Repaste CPU with better paste (Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut for example)

With this settings and mods coil whine went down and also temps are about ~43C (8% load, Proxmox 7.2 + 2 VMs, room temp. ~28C)"

This was shared by @wuwsth /\

And this too, might be thing:

 
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xShARkx

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ReturnedSword

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This one here:


Shows a solid cooper thermal solution(instead of that one, that is attached using screws to the chassis), ofc that picture cant be trusted... But who knows, it might be like that! Its a long shot i know :D
That looks like it’s using a Changwang CW-N6000 v1 board, but I’ll have to double check.

The major problem, it seems, is that Changwang which is the ODM for the CW-N6000 v1/v2 boards in most of the Topton/KingNovy units can’t get it right even on the v2 board me and @PigLover got. I wouldn’t have high confidence Changwang got the v1 board right.

I’m interested if anyone got ahold of a unit using Bluetech 1338NP-12 (4 x i225V) or 1338NP-20 (6 x i225V) can confirm if those boards’ N6005 variants are ES or not.
 
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PigLover

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@PigLover Can you check in your BIOS if the fTPM works? It’s under the Intel PTT option. When I enable PTT, upon reboot it goes back to discrete TPM.. which is useless since the motherboard doesn’t have a TPM header. This is just one of many issues with the latest BIOS dated 4/25/2022.

Also what vCore is your N6005 ES idling at? Mine idles around 1.82v which is extremely high. It should be closer to 1.2v.
I’m doing a 24+ hour run of prime95 now so I can’t check the bios until that is done. But I will check it tomorrow evening (or sooner if the stability run fails).

BTW, there is a header labeled TPM on the motherboard. It’s along the edge between the USB and console headers. No idea if it is a legit TPM header Or what TPM module would be compatible.
 

xShARkx

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That looks like it’s using a Changwang CW-N6000 v1 board, but I’ll have to double check.

The major problem, it seems, is that Changwang which is the ODM for the CW-N6000 v1/v2 boards in most of the Topton/KingNovy units can’t get it right even on the v2 board me and @PigLover got. I wouldn’t have high confidence Changwang got the v1 board right.

I’m interested if anyone got ahold of a unit using Bluetech 1338NP-12 (4 x i225V) or 1338NP-20 (6 x i225V) can confirm if those boards’ N6005 variants are ES or not.
Do you really need the one with the N6005 cpu? Cause the N5105 is also 10 w and seems much easier to find which means more availability and less of chance of it being shipped with an ES CPU.

I am also interested in the ones with Bluetech motherboards as said in a post that i made before my last post, but that post is waiting for moderation approval and its hidden right now for some reason? Maybe cause its too big or because i shared some links?
 

xShARkx

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I’m doing a 24+ hour run of prime95 now so I can’t check the bios until that is done. But I will check it tomorrow evening (or sooner if the stability run fails).

BTW, there is a header labeled TPM on the motherboard. It’s along the edge between the USB and console headers. No idea if it is a legit TPM header Or what TPM module would be compatible.
Did you change the thermal paste or is it stock?
 

ReturnedSword

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Do you really need the one with the N6005 cpu? Cause the N5105 is also 10 w and seems much easier to find which means more availability and less of chance of it being shipped with an ES CPU.

I am also interested in the ones with Bluetech motherboards as said in a post that i made before my last post, but that post is waiting for moderation approval and its hidden right now for some reason? Maybe cause its too big or because i shared some links?
If I could go back to the initial order, I would buy a N5105 instead. I got tunnel visioned as usual for us techies to get the best version hah! However, I probably also wouldn’t get the Changwang based units either now.
 
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oneplane

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By the way, most of the TPM stuff on generic Jasper Lake from China won't have Intel PTT endorsement (it's expensive) and without an SPI TPM (or LPC TPM) there will not be a TPM available. Just because they are lazy and only do the bare minimum to get the UEFI running doesn't mean all the buttons work (like you have experienced :p ).

One interesting thing is that one of the companies that manufactures stuff like QNAP hardware also has Jasper Lake boards, but you immediately get a 100USD price jump too at least $360 for just a N5000 series board (no complete chassis!) and it's constantly out of stock because they don't want ES or QS chips, only retail binned.

Product: WAFER-JL 3.5 inch embedded board | ideal for AGVs, AMR and small cabinets in factories.
USA-specific shop: WAFER-JL-N5105-R10
Crappy spec sheet: 0-8_Intel_Jasper_Lake_Platform.pdf

On top of that, it seems that nearly all ODMs share at least some of the reference designs, probably because Intel themselves shipped a base design and everyone else just iterates on that. The probably don't share firmwares besides a FSP or BSP and then QNAP and SuperMicro etc. get an IBV to do the hard work and Topton etc. just get a 'default' BIOS package, dump the FSP or BSP in there and hammer buttons until it boots and ship it.

Result: topton (or: Bluetech and Changwang etc.) are very cheap, nearly parts-price, one level up are the ODMs that do consumer electronics, and above that are embedded and server manufacturers, and above that is all other retail hardware. (and above that is made-to-spec where you ship schematics and assembly drawings to Foxconn and Compal and they manufacture it for you :D )

Nearly every jump seems to be a 25% increase in price for the same hardware (base about 240 for reference design, next 300 for common ODM, then 375 for consumer ODM, then 470 for Commel- and SuperMIcro-like OEMs etc. next step would be Dell, HP etc.), but just more quality control and less rough edges as you go up.
 
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abq

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May 23, 2015
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Long time Lurker, also bought 2 Units. One Topton and one from WooYi Store.

€ 168,08 42%OFF | Intel Celeron N5105/N5095 Soft Router Fanless Mini PC 4x Intel i225 2.5G LAN HDMI DP pfSense Firewall Appliance ESXI AES-NI

and

€ 166,28 40%OFF | Fanless Mini PC 4x Intel 2.5G LAN Switch Celeron N5105 2500M i225 Nic Mini Router Server ESXI Rugged pfSense Firewall Appliance

Will report back as soon as they arrive.
Hello ywman & ReturnedSword,

I greatly appreciate your experience & links for these firewall boxes. ...Would you have time for a few questions, that I think other would benefit from as well? ...I am not sure about the various AliExpress models, and see folks have mixed opinions on the various models. Seems to be an especially big risk with N6005 CPU models coming as ES version (sorry for people getting these:(.

If I go N5105 CPU, I think there are less problems with ES CPU substitutes, and stabler designs. Do you have any information on which N5105 boxes have better design, parts, bios, and heat sinking? I am looking at buying the first one you linked from the AliExpress WooYi Store (145.14US $ 42% OFF|Intel Celeron N5105/n5095 Soft Router Fanless Mini Pc 4x Intel I225 2.5g Lan Hdmi Dp Pfsense Firewall Appliance Esxi Aes-ni - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress), with N5105 & 4*Intel i225 2.5G + extra Comm Port. Do you happen to know if that extra comm port is an Intel chip/1Gbe ethernet based port? And does the SIM slot support something like 5G cell phone data type capability (I'm think Mint or Tello data plan as backup)? ...unless this is actually just a micro SD memory type slot, mistakenly marked as ambiguous SIM?

Best Regards,
ABQ :)

edit: Aliexpress 'Honor Box Store' , seems to have same WooYi model & case @ 146.73US $ 30% OFF|G30B 11th Gen N5105 Soft Router 4 Intel i225 2.5G LAN pfSense Firewall Appliance 2xDDR4 Mini PC OPNsense Firewall VPN Server| | - AliExpress
 
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prdtabim

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Jan 29, 2022
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Hello ywman & ReturnedSword,

I greatly appreciate your experience & links for these firewall boxes. ...Would you have time for a few questions, that I think other would benefit from as well? ...I am not sure about the various AliExpress models, and see folks have mixed opinions on the various models. Seems to be an especially big risk with N6005 CPU models coming as ES version (sorry for people getting these:(.
If I go N5105, I think there are less problems with ES CPU substitutes, and stabler designs. Do you have any information on which N5105 boxes have better design, parts, bios, and heat sinking? I am looking at buying the first one you linked from the AliExpress WooYi Store (145.14US $ 42% OFF|Intel Celeron N5105/n5095 Soft Router Fanless Mini Pc 4x Intel I225 2.5g Lan Hdmi Dp Pfsense Firewall Appliance Esxi Aes-ni - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress), with N5105 & 4*Intel i225 2.5G + extra Comm Port. Do you happen to know if that extra comm port is an Intel chip/1Gbe ethernet based port? And does the SIM slot support something like 5G cell phone data type capability (I'm think Mint or Tello data plan as backup)?

Best Regards,
ABQ :)
The Comm port is a serial RS232 used for local text console ( config using shell commands ).
 
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abq

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The Comm port is a serial RS232 used for local text console ( config using shell commands ).
Thank You for your help & gracious answer. ...I should have realized that is a serial comm port. I must be tired or some other lame excuse;).
 
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xShARkx

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Hello ywman & ReturnedSword,

I greatly appreciate your experience & links for these firewall boxes. ...Would you have time for a few questions, that I think other would benefit from as well? ...I am not sure about the various AliExpress models, and see folks have mixed opinions on the various models. Seems to be an especially big risk with N6005 CPU models coming as ES version (sorry for people getting these:(.

If I go N5105 CPU, I think there are less problems with ES CPU substitutes, and stabler designs. Do you have any information on which N5105 boxes have better design, parts, bios, and heat sinking? I am looking at buying the first one you linked from the AliExpress WooYi Store (145.14US $ 42% OFF|Intel Celeron N5105/n5095 Soft Router Fanless Mini Pc 4x Intel I225 2.5g Lan Hdmi Dp Pfsense Firewall Appliance Esxi Aes-ni - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress), with N5105 & 4*Intel i225 2.5G + extra Comm Port. Do you happen to know if that extra comm port is an Intel chip/1Gbe ethernet based port? And does the SIM slot support something like 5G cell phone data type capability (I'm think Mint or Tello data plan as backup)?

Best Regards,
ABQ :)
As for the other questions, we need to wait for someone to get their hands on the n5105 models like that one from WooYi Store which have a different motherboard and chassis comparing to the ones that were send by topton so far.

Looking at the pictures, this new chassis and motherboard seems better, at least from the position of the cpu which seems to align better with the copper sheet.
 

abq

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May 23, 2015
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As for the other questions, we need to wait for someone to get their hands on the n5105 models like that one from WooYi Store which have a different motherboard and chassis comparing to the ones that were send by topton so far.

Looking at the pictures, this new chassis and motherboard seems better, at least from the position of the cpu which seems to align better with the copper sheet.
Looks like first specific N5105 purchase from WooYi Store, and chance for informal review/feedback, will be from @yxman (ordered one in above thread post;).

edit: Aliexpress 'Honor Box Store' , seems to have same WooYi model & case @ 146.73US $ 30% OFF|G30B 11th Gen N5105 Soft Router 4 Intel i225 2.5G LAN pfSense Firewall Appliance 2xDDR4 Mini PC OPNsense Firewall VPN Server| | - AliExpress
 
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oneplane

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Regarding the SIM slot in any of the models, they are all just the 'slot' part, you still need to add a 4G or 5G modem card and antennas.
The only reason the SIM trays and slots are added ahead of time is because it's really hard to add them later on, unless the modem itself has a SIM card holder somewhere, which they usually don't.

The SIM slot is just wired up to one of the M.2 slots so when you add a modem it can talk to the SIM card. The extra holes in the case are to add your own antennas.

This is what a modem like that might look like: SIM8200-M2 SIMCom Original 5G Module, M.2 Form Factor, High Throughput Data Communication (they also have pictures of antennas, wires, and carrier boards to stick them on a raspberry pi). Some M.2 modems communicate over PCIe, but some just use USB.
 
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PigLover

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@PigLover Can you check in your BIOS if the fTPM works? It’s under the Intel PTT option. When I enable PTT, upon reboot it goes back to discrete TPM.. which is useless since the motherboard doesn’t have a TPM header. This is just one of many issues with the latest BIOS dated 4/25/2022.

Also what vCore is your N6005 ES idling at? Mine idles around 1.82v which is extremely high. It should be closer to 1.2v.
Prime95 blended mode ran without error for 25+hours (with the 40x10 fan). Temperatures never really rose much over 70c and the NVMe temp hovered about 50-55c. I guess that is a mild success - but with an annoying fan. Without it the NVMe temps quickly source above 85c. My ram doesn't have temperature monitoring but I'm sure it was blazing hot. Since Jasper Lake TJmax is 105c I'd make a completely unscientific guess that the instability seen by @ReturnedSword was due to RAM overheating and throwing bit errors, or maybe the NVMe faulting.

I tested enabling PTT and - just like your's it reset on reboot.

As for the vCore @ idle - it was locked in at ~1.8v. I also noticed that the speedstep multiplier never dropped from max (32) and 3.3Ghz. After seeing the post from @xShARkx I dug around the BIOS a little bit more and found that C-States were disabled (who does that?). After i enabled them and rebooted idle Vcore dropped to ~0.7v, multiplier to x8 and ~0.8Ghz. Idle temps in windows dropped 10c to ~40c. Still to damn hot.

Just for grins i'm going to waste more time and do an extended Memtest86+ - but and this point I'm pretty sure the painful process of a return is in my near future.
 
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xShARkx

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Looks like first specific N5105 purchase from WooYi Store, and chance for informal review/feedback, will be from @yxman (ordered one in above thread post;).

edit: Aliexpress 'Honor Box Store' , seems to have same WooYi model & case @ 146.73US $ 30% OFF|G30B 11th Gen N5105 Soft Router 4 Intel i225 2.5G LAN pfSense Firewall Appliance 2xDDR4 Mini PC OPNsense Firewall VPN Server| | - AliExpress
Other ppl also bought it, thats why i said that we need to wait for someone to get their hands on it :D it might be @yxman first or someone else.

These sellers on aliexpress are not the manufactures of the motherboard or chassis they are just resellers it seems, so more than one brand will have the exact same product with the exact same motherboard and chassis.
 
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xShARkx

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Prime95 blended mode ran without error for 25+hours (with the 40x10 fan). Temperatures never really rose much over 70c and the NVMe temp hovered about 50-55c. I guess that is a mild success - but with an annoying fan. Without it the NVMe temps quickly source above 85c. My ram doesn't have temperature monitoring but I'm sure it was blazing hot. Since Jasper Lake TJmax is 105c I'd make a completely unscientific guess that the instability seen by @ReturnedSword was due to RAM overheating and throwing bit errors, or maybe the NVMe faulting.

I tested enabling PTT and - just like your's it reset on reboot.

As for the vCore @ idle - it was locked in at ~1.8v. I also noticed that the speedstep multiplier never dropped from max (32) and 3.3Ghz. After seeing the post from @xShARkx I dug around the BIOS a little bit more and found that C-States were disabled (who does that?). After i enabled them and rebooted idle Vcore dropped to ~0.7v, multiplier to x8 and ~0.8Ghz. Idle temps in windows dropped 10c to ~40c. Still to damn hot.

Just for grins i'm going to waste more time and do an extended Memtest86+ - but and this point I'm pretty sure the painful process of a return is in my near future.
Ill be honest, without changing the bad thermal paste that comes stock with these devices for a really good one like kryonaut or something similar, i would not use it...

Also if you are planing on using such device as your router, i would use a normal sata ssd or even a good usb stick, instead of a hot nvme ssd that a router does not need at all, i mean with what are you going to use those really fast disk read and write speeds in a router?

But still they gave you an ES CPU, yes just return it!
 
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ReturnedSword

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By the way, most of the TPM stuff on generic Jasper Lake from China won't have Intel PTT endorsement (it's expensive) and without an SPI TPM (or LPC TPM) there will not be a TPM available. Just because they are lazy and only do the bare minimum to get the UEFI running doesn't mean all the buttons work (like you have experienced :p ).


One interesting thing is that one of the companies that manufactures stuff like QNAP hardware also has Jasper Lake boards, but you immediately get a 100USD price jump too at least $360 for just a N5000 series board (no complete chassis!) and it's constantly out of stock because they don't want ES or QS chips, only retail binned.


Product: WAFER-JL 3.5 inch embedded board | ideal for AGVs, AMR and small cabinets in factories.

USA-specific shop: WAFER-JL-N5105-R10

Crappy spec sheet: 0-8_Intel_Jasper_Lake_Platform.pdf


On top of that, it seems that nearly all ODMs share at least some of the reference designs, probably because Intel themselves shipped a base design and everyone else just iterates on that. The probably don't share firmwares besides a FSP or BSP and then QNAP and SuperMicro etc. get an IBV to do the hard work and Topton etc. just get a 'default' BIOS package, dump the FSP or BSP in there and hammer buttons until it boots and ship it.


Result: topton (or: Bluetech and Changwang etc.) are very cheap, nearly parts-price, one level up are the ODMs that do consumer electronics, and above that are embedded and server manufacturers, and above that is all other retail hardware. (and above that is made-to-spec where you ship schematics and assembly drawings to Foxconn and Compal and they manufacture it for you :D )


Nearly every jump seems to be a 25% increase in price for the same hardware (base about 240 for reference design, next 300 for common ODM, then 375 for consumer ODM, then 470 for Commel- and SuperMIcro-like OEMs etc. next step would be Dell, HP etc.), but just more quality control and less rough edges as you go up.
Ah, I didn't know that Intel PTT needed an endorsement. That explains a lot. Honestly the Changwang BIOS looks like they literally just paid for the generic AMI BIOS license that supports Jasper Lake and didn't bother to even modify the options at all; In other words, stock AMI.

The IEI motherboard actually looks great! Now if it were only available, and there was a way to buy a single sample of the chassis rather than volume buy. I wouldn't even be surprised if the motherboard itself required a minimum volume buy for the production run to be worthwhile.