Ruckus Wireless as an Unifi alternative?

blinkenlights

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May 24, 2019
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What a coincidence, @ViciousXUSMC! I just replaced my original R720 with a newer U.S. model (-US instead of -WW, and much higher serial number) and recycled the original as a mesh node on the second floor of the house. You covered most of my pain points, including the default controller firmware upgrade - the power issue was an unexpected disappointment. I decided on a Cudy POE300 injector supporting PoE+, 60 watt output, having a metal case and other features useful for an attic installation. I ran into the same degraded power profile you described, also forced the power mode to "at+" via the shell, and it is now operating at full power. I have two extra DC power supplies on the way in case that solution misbehaves in the future.

I found the zero-touch configuration a bit confusing. Based on a tutorial video, I thought the pre-authorized mesh node would connect to the primary AP and retrieve the configuration over the air. Instead, it got stuck in a network trouble mode (slow blink power/fast blink control). I connected it to a switch port on the same VLAN as the primary AP, allowed it to grab the configuration, and now I can move it anywhere without a wired backhaul to the switch.

Overall, I am happy with these access points and the Ruckus mesh implementation. I do recommend the R720 for the higher power output if greater range is desired.
 

Vesalius

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Nov 25, 2019
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Just upgraded last night from 2x R600 to 2x R710.

I really should have taken my time and made a video of it going thru the process but I was busy with the wife and kids and still wanted to get them up and running last night.

On my Galaxy S10+ bandwidth/speeds are significantly improved and the size and heft of the R710 is quite noticeable as compared to the R600.

Just a few things that I ran into as "gotchas" for anybody interested in the process.

I bought these on eBay with the understanding they were already on the most recent Unleashed firmware, but they were not they had one of the controller based firmwares on them. So I had to install the Unleashed firmware.

Knowing the R600 and other Wave 1 devices maxed out at Firmwmare 200.7 I actually installed the 200.7 firmware to the R710's and just plugged them in and let them join my existing unleashed setup so I would not have to reconfigure any of my settings for the new setup.

After adding both new AP's to the network I removed the old two (Both physically and actually clicked on remove from Unleashed GUI) and then after that I was able to upgrade the firmware yet again to the 200.8 firmware. Though I noticed no difference in performance nor options by doing this. The only difference I saw was the new "Switches" section in the Web GUI.

The main "gotchas" without a power supply I used PoE to power these and if they are on a network with a DHCP server they will not use the 192.168.0.1 IP they will pull a DHCP address.

I could connect to them via SSH but not the web, and all the instructions I found to update the firmware used the web interface.
Turns out, I needed to preface the IP address with https:// using the IP alone or http:// would not resolve the web portal.


After I figured that out, changing the firmware was easy.

I was able to connect to the configure.me SSID with my laptop but just got an APIPA IP when trying to do that AD-HOC so I am not sure if you can actually configure them from the SSID. If you do an Ethernet AD-HOC connection without DHCP you will get the 192.168.0.1 IP for the AP and just manually change your IP as needed (I used 192.168.0.20)

The new firmware gave me a nice warning that my AP was running in a degraded state because it was not getting enough power.
Running both APs in 802.3.AF instead of 802.3AT when both switches I was using are PoE+ switches.


On the Brocade ICX 6450-48P I manually changed the inline-power to Class 4 and gave it the max 30W power limit and it finally changed the inline-power listing for that device to be 802.3AT from the CLI but the AP itself still reported consuming 802.3AF power and in a degraded state.

After some googling and finding commands for the CLI for standalone AP's I didnt really find anything for Unleashed.
Come to find out going to the AP individually and going to Edit you can do a PoE ovveride and by changing both AP's to 802.3AT mode suddenly they both started running at full power without being degraded. I have no idea why it did not negotiate the proper PoE power on both my switches (The other switch a simple Zyxel GS1200-8HP nothing to change in CLI just a basic Web UI where PoE is on or off)

I am very happy with the R710's they seem ideal for my setup as going to the R720 requires PoE++ for full function and so I do not have that and 2.5gb Ethernet which I also do not have. The R750 was just a bit too expensive and the only AX devices I have are my phones.

I personally cant wait for AP's to have 10gb Fiber connectivity so I can use faster than 1gb uplinks without having to get some kind of crazy multi gig ethernet switch.

Even without the load balancing features enabled, just like my dual R600 setup the AP's seem to do an amazing job splitting my clients pretty much in half.

Very happy with the R710 and eBay seems to come up with them pretty cheap on the regular. One seller has them for $250 each shipped I think thats a fair price. I got mine a bit cheaper than that.

Check the post I linked above. I have the same switch as you, thanks for your vids on replacing with quieter fans BTW, and our switch does not have LLDP enabled by default so the Ruckus AP, I use the 710 as well, will not auto-negotiate the correct power allotment without it. Your workaround is fine though. With 802.3AT power to the AP you can now set up an LACP with your switch and the 2 RJ45's on the AP, if you choose to do so.
 
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ViciousXUSMC

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Check the post I linked above. I have the same switch as you, thanks for your vids on replacing with quieter fans BTW, and our switch does not have LLDP enabled by default so the Ruckus AP, I use the 710 as well, will not auto-negotiate the correct power allotment without it. Your workaround is fine though. With 802.3AT power to the AP you can now set up an LACP with your switch and the 2 RJ45's on the AP, if you choose to do so.
Totally plan to do that when I move and run ethernet in the ceiling right now i just have a thin cable along the wall, not sure the R710 will quite really take much advantage of LACP but will do it "just because" :)

I just decided tonight to turn on ChannelFly and see if that works well for me.
Seeing a few hiccups here and there with the new setup but I think its the devices more so than the APs.

My Behringer X18 mixer no longer will stay connected to wifi, but I think the wifi chip in it simply went out, and I have a Foscam R4 that drops connection now and then despite its great signal quality. But both of these devices messed up time to time on the old setup.

One of the kids saying that his ping is lower on his XBox now, but that it randomly drops for like a second once in a while. I think that he is just imagining it or it was something else. And I did have super slow connection on my FireTV in the bedroom and one of my Amazon Echos was not connected. Rebooting both fixed it, those devices were mostly probably just messed up from the AP updates.

Enabled application monitoring in the mobile app as well.

I am happy with the new setup. Now I'll sit tight until a good Wifi 6 AX device like the R750 is cheap and like I said I wish somebody would make an AP with a 10gbps fiber connection especially since these higher end AP's need more than PoE+ anyways. May as well give them local power and run a fiber strand.
 

epicurean

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Sep 29, 2014
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Sorry, newbie question but how does enabling LLDP on a R710 or the R610 actually helps with say a household of wifi needy people( about 5)? What can go wrong, and is it easy to fix?
 

ViciousXUSMC

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Sorry, newbie question but how does enabling LLDP on a R710 or the R610 actually helps with say a household of wifi needy people( about 5)? What can go wrong, and is it easy to fix?
You said LLDP but I think you meant LACP (Gotta love IT and all our acronyms)

I cant tell you 100% but I can tell you I doubt it.
LACP (LAG, Bonding, Etc) allows extra bandwidth, but not extra speed.

So any single connecton will still be limited to the speed of your interface (1 Gigabit) it's in a situation that a single client or a couple of clients actually manage to completely fill all that bandwidth that the extra connection can help prevent a bottleneck.

This is so much more likely with say Wifi 6 and a full blown wireless AX connection that it makes sense on say the R750, but I don't think you would easily see it achieved on older devices using Wireless N or even AC.

The other thing to keep in mind is what your wireless traffic is made up of.

For most people its the phones, tablets, and other consumption devices that use the wifi to get internet access.
If your single connection without LACP is 1gbps but your internet services is significantly slower (In my case my internet service is 150/150) it doesn't matter how "wide" you make the bandwidth from the AP to your WAN gateway, the WAN is going to be your slowest point and thus make the LAG group useless.

This would be perhaps different if you have a TON of high bandwidth devices that are accessing local resources on your network, or your one of the lucky ones that have 1gbps internet services. But again even with 1gb WAN its not going to have a LAG group to the actual service provider it would still be the bottleneck in a strictly all WAN based access setup.

I think this is more of an enterprise thing where people are using Laptops and such to access Applications with databases and other resources located on the LAN.

So what it comes down to for me is much like I said in my last post. I'll do it just "because I can" many of us here are enthusiast or like running enterprise like setups at home for learning/lab purposes. You also do gain redundency so if a single switch port fails you wouldn't go down.
 

itronin

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Nov 24, 2018
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You said LLDP but I think you meant LACP (Gotta love IT and all our acronyms)
Sorry, newbie question but how does enabling LLDP on a R710 or the R610 actually helps with say a household of wifi needy people( about 5)? What can go wrong, and is it easy to fix?
For power and possibly enabling antennas that are shutdown due to low power draw (and this may impact users' performance):



So LLDP being an easy config way to let the AP's and other devices(cameras) negotiate their power requirements with the switch.

full power is also required to enable LACP and the second ethernet port on an R710. @ViciousXUSMC is absolutely correct, enabling LACP will not increase bandwidth for any individual users but may improve performance for two or more folks hitting the network heavily at the same time. That said the folks (esp. in a home type setting) would need to be getting close to optimal radio performance to really see the difference. YMMV.
 

Vesalius

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Nov 25, 2019
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I would not rely on this except if you're powering your AP via external Power Supply. If the switch that provides PoE goes down you won't gain anything if the switch with the second (LACP) port is still up.
True, my main reason, is exactly as ViciousXUSMC mentioned "I'll do it just "because I can" many of us here are enthusiasts or like running enterprise like setups at home for learning/lab purposes."
 
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klui

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Feb 3, 2019
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True, my main reason, is exactly as ViciousXUSMC mentioned "I'll do it just "because I can" many of us here are enthusiasts or like running enterprise like setups at home for learning/lab purposes."
But not deployable in an enterprise environment because there is a single point of failure. That's kind of like using a redundant power supply but connecting it to the same circuit. It is an academic exercise and a good-to-know kind of thing and while being aware of its limitations, sort of why most folks here won't use WEP.
 
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epicurean

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I just replaced another AP AC Pro with a Ruckus R610 in my very slow migration. So 2 of the unifi AP AC PRos are now replaced with Ruckus R610s. Eventually, there will be a third R610 for a total of 3 (one on each floor).
Is it worthwhile enabling mesh? What are the pros and cons? Is it also normal that there are hardly any clients on the 2nd R610 since migration, should I do something about spreading the clients?
 

Vesalius

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Nov 25, 2019
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I just replaced another AP AC Pro with a Ruckus R610 in my very slow migration. So 2 of the unifi AP AC PRos are now replaced with Ruckus R610s. Eventually, there will be a third R610 for a total of 3 (one on each floor).
Is it worthwhile enabling mesh? What are the pros and cons? Is it also normal that there are hardly any clients on the 2nd R610 since migration, should I do something about spreading the clients?
if all of your AP are connected via ethernet to the same Network the answer is no mesh won’t add anything for you and will just increase the traffic on your WiFi as the AP continually talk and poll each other. Also I found that when Mesh is activated on a network the APs would stop broadcasting WiFi signal, often restarting everytime they lost connection to my pfsense router, which caused issues with my WiFi IOT devices. Without mesh on they will happily continue broadcasting and allow intranet activity/stability for smart devices even when internet or the router goes down.

The ruckus mesh is for when you have an AP that is remote from Ethernet and it will then use WiFi to bridge that gap at the same time the AP is a full peer in the unleashed network. Also, once you activate mesh it can not be deactivated without completely rebuilding the unleashed network from scratch.
 
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blinkenlights

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May 24, 2019
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The ruckus mesh is for when you have an AP that is remote from Ethernet and it will then use WiFi to bridge that gap at the same time the AP is a full peer in the unleashed network. Also, once you activate mesh it can not be deactivated without completely rebuilding the unleashed network from scratch.
Exactly right. I have one R720 configured as a master node with mesh, one R720 upstairs where I don't have (don't want to run) a new Ethernet drop. You sacrifice half of the physical bandwidth per spectrum (5GHz 1,733Mbps -> 866Mbps and 2.4GHz 600Mbps -> 300 Mbps), which is fine since everything routes out 500Mbps fiber internet service.
 

ViciousXUSMC

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IMO Mesh should be used when required, not when desired :)

If you have no way to home run all the AP's or locate them in a way that you get good coverage without needing to have these one off locations where you cant get wires, and you need those auxiliary AP's for coverage. Them make the change.

But I really think mesh is for the a common user without the knowledge and dedication to properly install and home run a dedicated AP setup, or perhaps your renting in a place where running wires and stuff just is not possible.

Even in that scenario though (I am renting a house right now) I managed to run dedicated AP's in both the front and back of the house without any crazy modifications or getting in the attic.

Front of the house runs from my ISP influx site with a long flat white Ethernet cable along the wall/ceiling that really is not something you notice without looking for it.

Back of the house I piggy backed outside of the home a 2nd ethernet run from my main switch zip tied to the co-ax that was already out there for cable service and used the same hole already drilled thru from outside to run a cable into one of the back rooms where I have a down stream switch running another AP.
 
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blinkenlights

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But I really think mesh is for the a common user without the knowledge and dedication to properly install and home run a dedicated AP setup
Not sure I agree with that, @ViciousXUSMC ;) I would say it is also for people with the knowledge to properly run cables, but who do not have the free time to do it properly or do not want to make their installation permanent for any number of reasons. I ran RG-59 from the attic, behind the siding, through the service entrance, above the ceiling, and back to the equipment rack for networked OTA television. I could string 100' of Ethernet along the same path, sure, but I am not yet sold on the benefits of an AP in my attic versus a spare bedroom.

Ruckus markets the mesh features based on cost of running cables: Mesh Networking and SmartMesh
 
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epicurean

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Great discussion. My R610s are replacing Unifi AC AP Pros which already have their dedicated ethernet POE cables. So no mesh for me.
But I am still mulling over where to do wire to the master Unleased AP a 2nd ethernet cable for LACP
 

Sealside

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May 10, 2019
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Hi!

Just bought an R710 US model of ebay. I can't seem to connect to it. I suspect it is damaged.
I power it up through my Ex3300 poe switch, it boots and power stays solid green (the other leds are off).
I've reset it several times, I have tried it offline where I can ping it and it responds (on the 192.168.0.1), I can also see that it can use dhcp, since
it will query my server for an IP. However can't ssh to it, and not connect to port 80 or 443.
Is there something else I should try before trying to get my money back?

Regards, S
 
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Vesalius

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Nov 25, 2019
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Is your 710 on the latest unleashed firmware or standalone/SZ/ZD firmware?

Convert Standalone/SZ/ZD managed AP to Unleashed Code

Ruckus Unleashed AP 200.8.10.3.278 (GA Refresh) Software for R710

Hi!

Just bought an R710 US model of ebay. I can't seem to connect to it. I suspect it is damaged.
I power it up through my Ex3300 poe switch, it boots and power stays solid green (the other leds are off).
I've reset it several times, I have tried it offline where I can ping it and it responds (on the 192.168.0.1), I can also see that it can use dhcp, since
it will query my server for an IP. However can't ssh to it, and not connect to port 80 or 443.
Is there something else I should try before trying to get my money back?

Regards, S
 

Sealside

Member
May 10, 2019
31
2
8
Stockholm/Sweden