Qotom Denverton fanless system with 4 SFP+

[foureight84]

Yeah, I know.

That's a weirdly undocumented CPU/SoC though. I wonder why Intel barley acknowledge that it exists. Is it a SKU originally built for a specific OEM perhaps, like how AMD have some custom EPYC SKUs for some large datacenter customers?

Most likely. I had only thought it would be cool if there were a 16 core version a few years ago. I came across this a few weeks ago and didn't know what the hell a 3908 is except for one pdf on Intel's website mentioning it.

It's just amazing that we can play around with this stuff thanks to the weird things China is making. Otherwise it would be insanely expensive like the PfSense boxes or these chips would have gone to the dump.

 

[blunden]

Most likely. I had only thought it would be cool if there were a 16 core version a few years ago. I came across this a few weeks ago and didn't know what the hell a 3908 is except for one pdf on Intel's website mentioning it.

It's just amazing that we can play around with this stuff thanks to the weird things China is making. Otherwise it would be insanely expensive like the PfSense boxes or these chips would have gone to the dump.

Yeah, that PDF is the only reference I came across too.

Yeah, there is lots of fun and unusual stuff coming out of China in the tech space. Laptop CPUs with custom substrates adapted to desktop motherboards, motherboards using recycled chipsets meant (sometimes meant for a different generation or a mix and match of chipsets on a board), these router focused mini PCs, etc.

 

[MarktheRed]

^^^^^

I agree. I love the mad scientist Shenzhen-zone tech banditry coming out now. I fantasize about someone making NAS appliances out of the Intel Lunar Lake x258v laptop chips with presoldered ddr5 that absolutely sips power / runs cool. The 258v is a SHOCKINGLY good APU and would be absolutely monster with AV1 decode / encode for a NAS. 28 lanes is fantastic. Marrying that CPU to a next gen x226 2.5g / 10g/ 25g on board network controller would be chef's kiss for a all-in-one proxmox, truenas, opnsense box. A man can dream.....

 

[Arjestin]

BTW, if you want a WiFi module with a M.2 B Key that actually fits the Qotom board, I tested this one: AWM27921U
It works with both Windows 11 and OpenWrt, and leaves you with 2 usable M.2 slots for a dual NVMe SSD setup. Drivers are available on the manufacturer's website. I bought the module from this webstore, but unfortunately the seller currently lists it as "out of stock"

Proxmox VE 8.3 does not recognize the ALFA AWM27921U WiFi module. Both Ubuntu LTS and Debian 12 list it in lspci, but for some reason Proxmox does not. I created a thread on the Proxmox forum. Hopefully, someone could shed some light on this issue.

EDIT 1:
Despite being an M.2 form factor, this card uses a USB 3.0 bus, so Proxmox VE recognizes it as a USB device.

EDIT 2:
Qotom Q20300G9_QDNV01 shares the USB controller with all its USB ports, including the one used by the M.2 B-Key.
(Option A) Passing-through the USB controller as a PCI device — The VM will gain access to all USB connected devices. So if you have a USB keyboard/mouse connected to the host, it will be disconnected from the host and passed-through to the VM.
(Option B) Passing-through the USB device by Port or by Vendor/Device ID — The VM will gain access to only the WiFi module. However, a host reset or a device firmware update may cause the USB port or vendor/device ID to cahnge, which will lead to a sudden misconfiguration of the VM.

 

[Wbm]

I was wondering whether anybody has (successfully) used an M.2 WWAN card with the B-key SIM slot?

My experience so far has been that the M.2 card works as expected (USB passthrough from Proxmox 7.4 to an OPNsense 24 host) - when using a FreeBSD-compatible WWAN card, it is recognized in OPNsense and I can communicate successfully via cu. But SIM-related commands (e.g. AT+CPIN?) return errors, so I assume there is some problem with the B-key interface? I haven't thoroughly checked the myriad of BIOS settings yet, so there might be something I've missed...

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the purchase so far (C3758R, non-rack version), but it's still not "in production" in my home network.

Same thing here, multiple boards and modems and problem with detecting sim card. Windows, Linux, Mikrotik. Nothing works.

 

[luckylinux]

I was able to get a 10G RJ45 SFP adapter working in the system and wanted to share what I've learned for the benefit of others.
(Please refer to earlier discussions in the thread about why many RJ45 SFP adapters don't work.)

• One user in this thread has told me they use this FlexOptix adapter and it works
• Another user has commented that this FS adapter should work as the specs say it uses lower power
• I have tried the 80m version of this "Xicom" adapter and it works (the 30m version will not; I have tried)
  • According to the manufacturer, the 30m version uses a Marvell chipset ("Aquantia 113C") which uses "up to 3W"
  • Whereas the 80m version uses a Broadcom chipset ("BCM84891LB") and consumes "less than 2W"

Interestingly, the RS adapter linked above also uses a Broadcom chip (not sure which) and claims to use "less than 1.8W". My guess is that it's the same as the one in the "80m" adapter I bought -- for 79% lower price. Mine seems to be working well so far and, according to ethtools, idles at ~47C while sitting in my closet. I'll try sticking a heatsink on it later, but I doubt it'll make much difference given the small size.

For the curious: the 30m version I tried was entirely unstable. I couldn't make connections through it and iperf3 results bounced up and down between 0 and 44mbps.

And, of course, YMMV.

The 30m state <= 2.3W, not <3W. Well technically it's below 3W but it's also below 1000W .

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007130620541.html

Approx 20 EUR / piece when buying 3 Pieces.

Where did you find the Information regarding which Chipset it uses ? I couldn't find anything about Xicom online .

I ordered 3 Pieces of the 30m Version Yesterday, I'm wondering if I should cancel the Order and get the 80m ones.

But the 80m ones are almost twice the Price too:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005961638364.html

Approx. 40 EUR / piece when buying 3 Pieces.

 

[blunden]

The 30m state <= 2.3W, not <3W. Well technically it's below 3W but it's also below 1000W .

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007130620541.html

Approx 20 EUR / piece when buying 3 Pieces.

Where did you find the Information regarding which Chipset it uses ? I couldn't find anything about Xicom online .

I ordered 3 Pieces of the 30m Version Yesterday, I'm wondering if I should cancel the Order and get the 80m ones.

But the 80m ones are almost twice the Price too:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005961638364.html

Approx. 40 EUR / piece when buying 3 Pieces.

Pretty sure he asked them directly.

He explicitly said the 30 m ones won't work so you obviously shouldn't buy those if you intend to use them in this mini PC. Also, that <= 2.3W sounds inaccurate. I'm pretty sure it's closer to 3 - 3.5W as that's what the Aquantia 113C inside it draws if I'm not mistaken.

Really, you probably shouldn't use 3 of them at all unless it's in a device where you can space them out or unless you have active cooling on them, definitely not with the 30 m ones that can easily reach 70°C or more.

How do you intend to use them?

ZYOPM also has an 80 m model based on the same Broadcom chip that is slightly cheaper:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006875162404.html

Seeing how much the rest of us paid for these up until recently though, $34-46 is an absolute steal. Those prices are with 25% VAT too, so I imagine prices for you should slightly lower.

 

[luckylinux]

Pretty sure he asked them directly.

He explicitly said the 30 m ones won't work so you obviously shouldn't buy those if you intend to use them in this mini PC. Also, that <= 2.3W sounds inaccurate. I'm pretty sure it's closer to 3 - 3.5W as that's what the Aquantia 113C inside it draws if I'm not mistaken.

Really, you probably shouldn't use 3 of them at all unless it's in a device where you can space them out or unless you have active cooling on them, definitely not with the 30 m ones that can easily reach 70°C or more.

How do you intend to use them?

ZYOPM also has an 80 m model based on the same Broadcom chip that is slightly cheaper:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006875162404.html

Seeing how much the rest of us paid for these up until recently though, $34-46 is an absolute steal. Those prices are with 25% VAT too, so I imagine prices for you should slightly lower.

I am actually planning on using them on the ONTI ONT-S508CL-8S (pretty much the same as Xikestor SKS8300-8X).

It was reccomended to me on OpenWRT Forums in the Thread when I was trying to troubleshoot my OpenWRT Setup (and wrote the associated Guide mentioned in my other Post).

Source is here: Support for RTL838x based managed switches

But of course that is with the ONTI ONT-S508CL-8S / Xikestor SKS8300-8X in Mind, NOT this MiniPC.

As for the Heat, I actually just ordered some Heatsinks. A 15x15x15 mm Heatsink fits just Right on top on the SFP+ Modules on the ONTI ONT-S508CL-8S / Xikestor SKS8300-8X / Mikrotik CSR317-1G-16S+RM. For the Mikrotik CRS309-1G-8S+ there is a bit of Gap between each SFP+ Modules, so I'm going to try my Luck with some 19x19x24 mm Heatsinks

Currently the Mikrotik S+RJ10 on the Mikrotik CRS309-1G-8S+ is sitting at 80-85 °C with little to no Activity (far from 10gbps in normal use, probably lower than 100mbps even on average).

I don't think it's good long term .

What I ordered:
- 19x19x24 mm Heatsink: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005891126817.html
- 15x15x15 mm Heatsink: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006054869783.html
- 15 mm x 10 m Thermal Adhesive: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005721222386.html

 

[blunden]

I am actually planning on using them on the ONTI ONT-S508CL-8S (pretty much the same as Xikestor SKS8300-8X).

It was reccomended to me on OpenWRT Forums in the Thread when I was trying to troubleshoot my OpenWRT Setup (and wrote the associated Guide mentioned in my other Post).

Source is here: Support for RTL838x based managed switches

But of course that is with the ONTI ONT-S508CL-8S / Xikestor SKS8300-8X in Mind, NOT this MiniPC.

As for the Heat, I actually just ordered some Heatsinks. A 15x15x15 mm Heatsink fits just Right on top on the SFP+ Modules on the ONTI ONT-S508CL-8S / Xikestor SKS8300-8X / Mikrotik CSR317-1G-16S+RM. For the Mikrotik CRS309-1G-8S+ there is a bit of Gap between each SFP+ Modules, so I'm going to try my Luck with some 19x19x24 mm Heatsinks

Currently the Mikrotik S+RJ10 on the Mikrotik CRS309-1G-8S+ is sitting at 80-85 °C with little to no Activity (far from 10gbps in normal use, probably lower than 100mbps even on average).

I don't think it's good long term .

What I ordered:
- 19x19x24 mm Heatsink: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005891126817.html
- 15x15x15 mm Heatsink: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006054869783.html
- 15 mm x 10 m Thermal Adhesive: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005721222386.html

I see. If you already have some of the older 10GBASE-T transceivers that are basically small furnaces, you already know why paying a bit more for the lower power 80 or 100 meter ones makes sense.

Like I said, I'm fairly certain the 2.3W number on the 30 meter one is wildly inaccurate as it doesn't match specs of the chip that's inside it as far as I know.

If you really want to save money, the ZYOPM ones (the 80 m model) is a better option in my opinion.

 

[Greg_E]

I'd like to see pictures of how you placed the heatsinks on the SFP+ cages. This is something that I haven't thought about yet, but could certainly be worth doing.

 

[skyjam]

So, I looked through most of it and see what you mean. I had also already emailed Qotom and they told me to solder a couple of open points on the board. It looks to be for port 1 only though in the following pic. Going to try it and I will report back.

I am happy to report that THIS FIXED IT!
Kinda sucks I have to solder a brand new unit, but it did work and now all 4 ports are seeing the SFPs and LACP is happy!

Hi, just to understand: you did simply solder bridge the missing parts? you did not put a resistor there?

 

[mickee]

Hi, just to understand: you did simply solder bridge the missing parts? you did not put a resistor there?

I tried this as well, it did make the port recognise the SFP module but the unit won't boot with anything in the port with the pads bridged, so i removed the solder bridge again.

 

[luckylinux]

Currently the Mikrotik S+RJ10 on the Mikrotik CRS309-1G-8S+ is sitting at 80-85 °C with little to no Activity (far from 10gbps in normal use, probably lower than 100mbps even on average).

It seems without Heatsink the Mikrotik is closer to 85°C than 80°C.

When I applied the 19x19x24mm Heatsink on the Mikrotik Switch, that only brought the Temperatures down from ~85°C to 79-80°C. Not a huge win IMHO. Could be the Thermal Tape (maybe not very good quality) or possibly lack of some clamping force (I could try to add an elastic Band, but I wanted to keep things Simple first)

 

[Greg_E]

The 10Gtek 10base-t module I have responded very well to sticking a 14x14x7 heatsink on the external part where the connector is, I was very surprised by how much cooler it felt, even when doing a stress test of 6-7gbps on the drives in my nas. Still very warm, but the reduction could be felt. I did not grab before and after temperatures.

 

[BigWill]

The photo you shared shows 4 open points on the PCB. Did you solder each vertical pair of points or made a connection between horizontal points? It would help a lot if you could upload the same photo with lines drawn to show how these 4 points should be connected.

It was soldered vertically. I actually asked Qotom the same question.

 

[BigWill]

Hi, just to understand: you did simply solder bridge the missing parts? you did not put a resistor there?

Yes, you solder the points vertically. If I get a chance, I can modify the pic Qotom sent me.

 

[mickee]

Yes, you solder the points vertically. If I get a chance, I can modify the pic Qotom sent me.

Does your unit boot with the SFP port occupied? I tried bridging the pads but then my unit won't boot with the port occupied, so i desoldered the pads again

 

[blunden]

Does your unit boot with the SFP port occupied? I tried bridging the pads but then my unit won't boot with the port occupied, so i desoldered the pads again

If I recall correctly, that's why they don't come soldered anymore. It was discussed a while back in this thread.

From what I understand, the port in question is supposed to work anyway in at least some situations, even though detection of the transceivers isn't exactly like normal. I don't remember the exact details though.

 

[BigWill]

Does your unit boot with the SFP port occupied? I tried bridging the pads but then my unit won't boot with the port occupied, so i desoldered the pads again

Yes, it boots normally. Which SFP or TwinAX do you have? That could be the issue.

If I recall correctly, that's why they don't come soldered anymore. It was discussed a while back in this thread.

From what I understand, the port in question is supposed to work anyway in at least some situations, even though detection of the transceivers isn't exactly like normal. I don't remember the exact details though.

You are right, they told me they made that change because of the SFP compatibility. Some SFPs would cause problems. Probably the boot issue.

I am using a 10GTek TwinAX.

 

[voltagex]

My Qotom unit just failed. The power supply is apparently still supplying 3W at 12V but it's no longer powering on.

I have emailed Qotom and will see what they say.