LGA 1700 Alder Lake "Servers"

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Alex_T0000

Member
Aug 7, 2021
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I have two KSM48E40BD8KM-32HM and the Asus WS W680 here.

and a Core i7 13700K

And it isn't running.

If I put only one DIMM into the Socket it is booting but with ridiculous fast RAM timings(normal for fast DDR5-RAM but too fast for DDR5-ECC).

One DIMM is even memtest stable.

But if you are putting 1 DIMM per channel into the system it isn't even booting.

I updated to the newest firmware and it isn't helping.

I think I am going to send it back.

I have a X13SAE+13700K+Kingston-ECC running with conservative RAM settings. Everything is running rock stable with 1DPC.

Currently with the Asus Board I try to set the RAM settings CL tRCD .... manually but so far no luck.


This is my X13SAE config
Hey, thanks for posting and surprised it's not running.

You indicated that you updated to the latest BIOS - did you confirm whether or not the Management Engine (ME) version of the board is at the level indicated by ASUS? I haven't updated the BIOS as I haven't had a chance to check the ME version.

I have a feeling the memory isn't compatible, however, there isn't any indication that I have that would suggest by looking at the Spec sheet that it shouldn't work.

Have you tried loading Optimized defaults and have confirmed that the RAM modules are fully seated? when I first stuck memory into this board, I was surprised by how much more force I had to push down the module to get it to really engage in comparison to my earlier DDR4 ECC RDIMM insertion experience, so wonder if something else is off?

Any thing resting on the board that is metal, or any screws that fell out and landed on something? just curious if going back to just CPU + RAM and then booting MemTest gives you a result? can you grab a screenshot from MemTest? I am just curious to see if the board "sees" the RAM correctly or not?

Cheers,

Alex
 

ddr5ecc

New Member
Feb 5, 2023
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I had the chance to exchange CPU from PC1 with CPU from PC2.

PC1
Supermicro X13SAE with i7-13700Kstrong (this seems to be the one with the better/more robust integrated Memcontroller)


PC2
Asus WS W680 with i7-13700Kweak


When I install i7-13700Kweak into the Supermicro Board it is booting and everything is okay.

When I install i7-13700Kstrong into the Asus Board it is booting and everything is okay.

I didn't boot into Windows as i don't want to "loose the activation after hardware change".
But I was running Memtest.

So now I know more but I don't know what to do i7-13700Kweak

And next thing that bugs me:
I am a fan of dedicated TPM-Modules.
For the Supermicro board you needed to buy a dedicated TPM-Module because the Supermicro Board was deactivating the integrated TPM of the CPU.

In the last 2 years with Win11 I installed dedicated TPM-Modules into my PCs because I had less trouble.

But with the Asus Board and dedicated TPM I reached slower Memory speeds (DDR5-4200) than with integrated TPM (DDR5-4400)

I don't know the reason for this.

I had to deactivate TPM and secure boot to boot memtest(because memtest has no signed bootloader).

So I think that a memory stress test inside Win11 with activated Core Isolation / Memory Integrity / ECC could be more demanding to the integrated memory controller.

I miss a Raptor Lake Xeon SKU.
I would buy this SKU without a doubt.
I want a SKU with a harder quality control.

This is like going into a casino - completely frustrating.
 
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Alex_T0000

Member
Aug 7, 2021
35
11
8
I had the chance to exchange CPU from PC1 with CPU from PC2.

PC1
Supermicro X13SAE with i7-13700Kstrong (this seems to be the one with the better/more robust integrated Memcontroller)


PC2
Asus WS W680 with i7-13700Kweak


When I install i7-13700Kweak into the Supermicro Board it is booting and everything is okay.

When I install i7-13700Kstrong into the Asus Board it is booting and everything is okay.

I didn't boot into Windows as i don't want to "loose the activation after hardware change".
But I was running Memtest.

So now I know more but I don't know what to do i7-13700Kweak

And next thing that bugs me:
I am a fan of dedicated TPM-Modules.
For the Supermicro board you needed to buy a dedicated TPM-Module because the Supermicro Board was deactivating the integrated TPM of the CPU.

In the last 2 years with Win11 I installed dedicated TPM-Modules into my PCs because I had less trouble.

But with the Asus Board and dedicated TPM I reached slower Memory speeds (DDR5-4200) than with integrated TPM (DDR5-4400)

I don't know the reason for this.

I had to deactivate TPM and secure boot to boot memtest(because memtest has no signed bootloader).

So I think that a memory stress test inside Win11 with activated Core Isolation / Memory Integrity / ECC could be more demanding to the integrated memory controller.

I miss a Raptor Lake Xeon SKU.
I would buy this SKU without a doubt.
I want a SKU with a harder quality control.

This is like going into a casino - completely frustrating.

Hmm, sorry to hear that, and that is very interesting and I can also imagine, frustrating in regards to the memory controller differences, plus what you are noticing with the dedicated TPM vs. Supermicro approach.

I am still pondering some of the bugs or kinks that the ASUS WS680 ACE might have and your specific experience, because of what I just went through in upgrading to the latest BIOS 2305 after performing the "ME" update with ASUS ME update tool.

I was stuck in a boot loop and kept having the video card driver black screen of death the entire system after this BIOS update and it make me think about some of your situation and settings.

I know that you did a lot of things to try and get things running, but I am still finding your IMC story intriguing.

I am in a situation, where given the WS680 ACE IPMI's pages and pages of BIOS settings, I realized that ASUS' "profile saving" feature just stinks and I lost all my tweaks, which might have resulted in my boot loop situation.

As a note - I got the system back up and running now, after turning off all ASUS enhancements and using Intel default CPU settings, so I wonder if there is something else in the BIOS code or settings that could also be a culprit in your situation. As a note, I had to fix/set my DDR5 memory settings to DDR5-4800 and leave everything else at AUTO, so I wonder if there is an issue in ASUS' memory code as they introduced features to "improve memory stability" I have a feeling another BIOS will come out sooner than later.

I'll have to give some thought about your whole experience with a "weak" IMC vs. a "strong" IMC, and I also agree, I would love a Raptor Lake Xeon SKU, there really is a quality control difference with Xeon's it would appear, even if they wouldn't permit overly exotic memory overclocking or core overclocking, I am sure some of the things you are seeing would be a non-issue in a Xeon based SKU.

Re: loosing Windows activation - if you call Microsoft and explain your situation, I wonder if they would permit you to swap CPUs, to enable you to essentially have a reset of hardware activations. I used to have the impression that they permitted at least 1 major change per key - but - I'll also admit that I've never seen it done before with a CPU swap, and it sounds like you have far more experience than I do.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and it does give me some pause about the whole IMC situation, it's not something I've ever thought to be a thing on Intel. I've experienced it first had on my first Ryzen 1700X, which had an absolutely horrible IMC, but I never imagined an Intel CPU ever having a weak IMC!

Cheers and take care!

Alex
 
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RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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I didn't boot into Windows as i don't want to "loose the activation after hardware change".
if you have Win Pro and logged in by microsoft account: don't log-out from MS just shut down. do your hardware change, and boot up, if windows is not activated go to your MS account user page where you can select which PC this was and activate again.
works dozends of times for me at Win10 and should work for Win11 Pro thought.
 
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ddr5ecc

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Feb 5, 2023
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This are domain-joined workstations

But I am considering creating a new account on that device and "Microsoft-account-joining" this new account.

I have to test this first with a less "mission critical" workstation.
 

AlOX

New Member
Mar 30, 2023
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Hey, the information i found her about the Asus Pro WS W680-ACE is priceless.
I want to consult with you guys will a 13900K and a 4090RTX will be able to run on this board without any limitation? did anyone try a combination of powerful last gen CPU+GPU on it?
And did anyone else beside Weapon experienced really bad coil whine?
Thanks for all the knowledge.
 
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RolloZ170

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2016
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What are the "Turbo Time Limit" settings? it has also a thermal limit?
PL1 (TDP) normal limit
PL2 is the "boost" (maximum turbo power), which may be present for x seconds (tau).

with enough cooling, Gaming motherboards support endless Turbo operation, this is OC.
the VRM units also have to support continous turbo.

don't compare X13SAE with a Z board running with auto OC and no intel limits.
 
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RolloZ170

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Apr 24, 2016
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does updating BIOS to 2.0a gives full performance to 13900k now?
what about report some turbo frequencies and power draw with specified load ?
install HWinfo. and run CBR20 as load i.e. check if the turbo(ratio???) is last forever or stops after 56 seconds.
 

ddr5ecc

New Member
Feb 5, 2023
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I have a 13700K with X13SAE and Noctua NH-D15
Firmware BIOS 2.0a
With ECC you can run DDR5 4400
This Board is not meant for heavy OCing but it runs the CPU in a TDP area over 140W to 160W (my guess).
Cinebench R23 score is 10% lower than on a Z790 board but this is more because of the DDR5 ECC limitation than the VRM limitation(my guess).

But I want to have DDR5 ECC inside the system.
 
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AlOX

New Member
Mar 30, 2023
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Hey, thanks for posting and surprised it's not running.

You indicated that you updated to the latest BIOS - did you confirm whether or not the Management Engine (ME) version of the board is at the level indicated by ASUS? I haven't updated the BIOS as I haven't had a chance to check the ME version.

I have a feeling the memory isn't compatible, however, there isn't any indication that I have that would suggest by looking at the Spec sheet that it shouldn't work.

Have you tried loading Optimized defaults and have confirmed that the RAM modules are fully seated? when I first stuck memory into this board, I was surprised by how much more force I had to push down the module to get it to really engage in comparison to my earlier DDR4 ECC RDIMM insertion experience, so wonder if something else is off?

Any thing resting on the board that is metal, or any screws that fell out and landed on something? just curious if going back to just CPU + RAM and then booting MemTest gives you a result? can you grab a screenshot from MemTest? I am just curious to see if the board "sees" the RAM correctly or not?

Cheers,

Alex
The fact it is an intel CPU problem is extremely rare.
 
Last edited:

AlOX

New Member
Mar 30, 2023
13
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3
I have a 13700K with X13SAE and Noctua NH-D15
Firmware BIOS 2.0a
With ECC you can run DDR5 4400
This Board is not meant for heavy OCing but it runs the CPU in a TDP area over 140W to 160W (my guess).
Cinebench R23 score is 10% lower than on a Z790 board but this is more because of the DDR5 ECC limitation than the VRM limitation(my guess).

But I want to have DDR5 ECC inside the system.
What kind of DDR5 ECC memory you eventually use?
 

AlOX

New Member
Mar 30, 2023
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what about report some turbo frequencies and power draw with specified load ?
install HWinfo. and run CBR20 as load i.e. check if the turbo(ratio???) is last forever or stops after 56 seconds.
Sorry, but I don't have the board.
 

ddr5ecc

New Member
Feb 5, 2023
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Kingston UDIMM ECC KSM48E40BD8KM-32HM

Now my findings in terms of performance Cinebench R23

Asus ROG Strix Z790 + 13700K + DDR5-5600: 31000 CBR23 (according to websites)

Asus WS W680 + 13700Kstrong + Kingsten ECC DDR5-4600: 28500 CBR23 (my own benchmark run)

X13SAE + 13700Kstrong + Kingston DDR5-4400: 27500(my own benchmark run)

X13SAE + 13700Kweak : 25500 (my own benchmark run)

Asus WS W680 + 13700Kweak - - it isn't even booting - no chance.

Asus with Firmware Version 2305 from March 22nd
Supermicro with Firmware Version 2.0a from Feb 14th

The Asus Board is really demanding when it comes to the quality of the memory controller of the CPU.

The Supermicro X13SAE is more forgiving but isn't able to reach the performance of the Asus board.
 
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AlOX

New Member
Mar 30, 2023
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Great Info!!
So you get 80 bit ECC on your linux/windows tests with the kingston?