Intel DC P4610 6.4TB U.2 3 DWPD $349

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T_Minus

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Or if you're brainwashed enough to exaggerate the risk of anything related to China without anything to actualy point out as caveats.

Then the cautions start losing any meaning/value.

If you post a caution with something actualy to back it up a fairly large portion will just scroll past it as they see who posted it, since you constantly post them without having anything to actualy point to or back it up with.
its too often gone from being about the deal to just politics between regions.
LOL!! I've been scammed by Chinese sellers and not for Intel NICs like OTHERS here have.

You and the person who thinks because a company said something it must be 100% true live in a fantasy land.

So many companies say their stuff is not hackable, editable, whatever -- yet it is -- you're ignorant if you believe what a company says to be 100% true about their products - and you're also dreaming if you think you have any legal right based on what they stated about their drive.

Continue to do what you want, I only posted a warning not an "OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING" message...
 
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Cruzader

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LOL!! I've been scammed by Chinese sellers and not for Intel NICs like OTHERS here have.
Almost as many as get scammed by US or Israel based sellers.
The 2 countries you are the most likely to get a fake/counterfeit product when buying tech from.

I suppose the fantasy land im living in is one where people would point out actual red flags with something behind it.
Im not saying the world is ending either, id just hope eventualy the derailing by politics will.

Those that do not want to buy from somewhere for whatever belief/politics they follow will already not do so.
 
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reasonsandreasons

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I'm sympathetic to the caution around fakes (see the last 10 years of buying SD cards online), but in cases like this I think it's more useful to back up those warnings with specific examples. Are there lots of Intel U.2 drives out there sold as new but experiencing premature failure? Are their instances of SMART data being clearly reset or displaying contradictory values? If Intel drives are the new repackaged NICs it would be useful for the community to know, and I worry that in cases like this a general warning gets dressed up as a specific one.
 
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T_Minus

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Almost as many as get scammed by US or Israel based sellers.
The 2 countries you are the most likely to get a fake/counterfeit product when buying tech from.

I suppose the fantasy land im living in is one where people would point out actual red flags with something behind it.
Im not saying the world is ending either, id just hope eventualy the derailing by politics will.

Those that do not want to buy from somewhere for whatever belief/politics they follow will already not do so.

Huh? Political beliefs? 0 political anything in this thread, just you coming up with nonsense.
You can ignore forum members warnings, but you don't get to put words in their mouth.


Funny we had a similar thread many years ago when people didn't think resetting HDD SMART data was possible, it is... and it's the HDD\SSD sellers who sell in bulk that do it.

You can do the same with known SSD\NVME tools like this one.... and there are more tools out there I've seen, and more I'm sure I have not seen... what they can and can't do I can't tell you. But you'd be silly to assume it's impossible for SSD SMART data to not be overwritten or reset.
 
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Cruzader

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You can ignore forum members warnings, but you don't get to put words in their mouth.
That its what drives most of the generic warnings with nothing specific to back it up with is just calling a shovel for a shovel.
Not meant as a insult to you or specific to you, again i mean the trend in general.
 
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reasonsandreasons

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In that thread I don't think I saw evidence that SMART information can be completely erased, only that the attributes can be altered. Is it possible to completely modify the SMART data? Under what circumstances? Again, if drives are coming back with tell-tale indications of modified SMART or premature failures that's one thing, but a belief that otherwise-legitimate-seeming drives are fraudulent borders on superstition unless there's some way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

(Re: politics, I think it's worth thinking about the numbers and assumptions here. The SMART reset scenario you're describing is different from the situation with NICs, where successful creating a counterfeit requires desoldering existing Intel chips from unusable cards and reattaching them to a new PCB. That operation requires fairly advanced and integrated manufacturing operation that's likely only profitable in someplace like Shenzen. If resetting SMART data in an undetectable way is possible with the tools you pointed out it's likely possible everywhere. There might be a large number of people doing it in China, but there are lots of people in China generally, and it feel strange to identify Chinese sellers as uniquely likely to engage in that kind of fraud.)
 
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e97

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Yes, the drive is most likely a real Intel. At-least most of those sellers are selling real Intel drives... I'd hope :D

The problem is it might have 60,000 hours and 5PB written to it but show up as new.

I'm super suspicious of new intel in clam-shell after the NIC issue, especially any Chinese seller or reseller in the USA with photos very similar to the Chinese sellers.
Good to know they are legit but troubling that they could fail shortly after because they were churned through PBs of writes and then dumped to get "refurbished" and sold as new.

Does the manufacturer date on the drive help or are the labels swapped?

Will a full drive scan reveal this through re-allocs or something else?
 

gb00s

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..... You and the person who thinks because a company said something it must be 100% true live in a fantasy land.

So many companies say their stuff is not hackable, editable, whatever -- yet it is -- you're ignorant if you believe what a company says to be 100% true about their products - and you're also dreaming if you think you have any legal right based on what they stated about their ....
You can share warnings and rumors, but without specific solid evidence for the specific seller, it might backfire someday, potentially harming someone or a business. When that happens, you better have the evidence to back it up. If you buy one of these promoted drives on Newegg, checked the serials with Solidigm, confirmed as legit and data online match the data provided on the package, your warning is just providing air of importance to this thread.

And if you genuinely think that a product's legitimacy confirmation, warranty promise, and a claim that SMART data for the specific product can't be manipulated mean nothing legally for the producer, it just makes your statement here sound even more meaningless.
 
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Samir

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Or if you're brainwashed enough to exaggerate the risk of anything related to China without anything to actualy point out as caveats.

Then the cautions start losing any meaning/value.

If you post a caution with something actualy to back it up a fairly large portion will just scroll past it as they see who posted it, since you constantly post them without having anything to actualy point to or back it up with.
its too often gone from being about the deal to just politics between regions.
I only learned about such risks here at STH, so it's not brainwashing, just reading. I don't need to play this 'Internet court' game. If you don't care about the authenticity of your gear, then that's fine. But for those of us that do, we will point out what we see.

This has nothing to do with politics. It's some simple facts about manufacturing that certain people like yourself want to bury their head in the sand about. That's fine if that's your modus operandi, but don't make one issue into something that isn't just because you don't care about it.
 
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Samir

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Almost as many as get scammed by US or Israel based sellers.
The 2 countries you are the most likely to get a fake/counterfeit product when buying tech from.

I suppose the fantasy land im living in is one where people would point out actual red flags with something behind it.
Im not saying the world is ending either, id just hope eventualy the derailing by politics will.

Those that do not want to buy from somewhere for whatever belief/politics they follow will already not do so.
Again you make this a political issue when it is not. You're the one causing this problem, so just stop it. If you don't like the caution then move on.
 
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Samir

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That its what drives most of the generic warnings with nothing specific to back it up with is just calling a shovel for a shovel.
Not meant as a insult to you or specific to you, again i mean the trend in general.
This 'back it up' garbage is nonsense. With this type of logic, nothing exists that cannot be proven emperically, so even the unknown is concluded as 'does not exist'.

The simple fact is that the regions of the world in which these products are manufacturered do have what the west would label as high rates of corruption as well as manipulation, bait and switch, outright fraud, etc. To expect products that are manufactured there, but not coming through official channels to be 100% legit is 100% impossible--otherwise those sellers would put those products in the official channels and have a much larger margin. To ignore this because of 'back it up' is to ignore the possibilities, which again if you want to do, is perfectly fine. But do not sit here and tout that there is absolutely no possiblity of counterfeit/sub-standard items without 'backing it up'.
 
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Samir

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In that thread I don't think I saw evidence that SMART information can be completely erased, only that the attributes can be altered. Is it possible to completely modify the SMART data? Under what circumstances? Again, if drives are coming back with tell-tale indications of modified SMART or premature failures that's one thing, but a belief that otherwise-legitimate-seeming drives are fraudulent borders on superstition unless there's some way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

(Re: politics, I think it's worth thinking about the numbers and assumptions here. The SMART reset scenario you're describing is different from the situation with NICs, where successful creating a counterfeit requires desoldering existing Intel chips from unusable cards and reattaching them to a new PCB. That operation requires fairly advanced and integrated manufacturing operation that's likely only profitable in someplace like Shenzen. If resetting SMART data in an undetectable way is possible with the tools you pointed out it's likely possible everywhere. There might be a large number of people doing it in China, but there are lots of people in China generally, and it feel strange to identify Chinese sellers as uniquely likely to engage in that kind of fraud.)
It would be nice if we had concrete ways to know when something definitively is fraudulant, but that generally that is only revealed after someone buys and is cheated and that happens enough times that the 'word gets out'. Today's seller is much more sophisticated with quick refunds, company name changes, etc to profit from their wares as long as they possibly can.

The only thing 100% is that buying new directly from authorized distributors is nearly 100% of the time going to yield you a genuine product.

As far as fraud, it's not limited to a region either--there are fraudulent sellers anywhere you look if you want to look for them. So the danger can be domestic as well.

Bottom line is that the idea of caution is just part of the whole caveat emptor that anyone purchasing anything used needs to carry with them to avoid losing their money--and it's usually better to have too much caution vs too little if that's your goal vs rolling the dice.
 
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Samir

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You can share warnings and rumors, but without specific solid evidence for the specific seller, it might backfire someday, potentially harming someone or a business. When that happens, you better have the evidence to back it up. If you buy one of these promoted drives on Newegg, checked the serials with Solidigm, confirmed as legit and data online match the data provided on the package, your warning is just providing air of importance to this thread.

And if you genuinely think that a product's legitimacy confirmation, warranty promise, and a claim that SMART data for the specific product can't be manipulated mean nothing legally for the producer, it just makes your statement here sound even more meaningless.
Complete and utter nonsense. There is zero liability from providing caution to someone, unless done with the intent to harm and proven in the legal system as done with malice and gross negligance--and that is a very high legal bar to attain for any prosecution so it doesn't even happen even when the case is obvious.

If I'm understanding what you wrote correctly, you think that the legitimacy, warranty, and smart info mean something for the seller because there is a liability? If this is what you meant, then the reality of the legal system and the lack of enforcement is not something you have experience. And it is because the lack of legal liability that the whole new product category of 'very good fakes' has even come up. Even in completely legitamate products, the warranty statements expressly limit the liability, so why would used products be subject to anything more than that? The answer is they don't.
 
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Cruzader

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have what the west would label as high rates of corruption as well as manipulation, bait and switch, outright fraud, etc. To expect products that are manufactured there, but not coming through official channels to be 100% legit is 100% impossible--otherwise those sellers would put those products in the official channels and have a much larger margin.
So US and China you are warning against then?

And if its impossible to back it up with something, does that not say something about the weight it carries?..

That there is a default risk is not a given, thats not a worldwide view/opinion.

When views get used as fact its time to actualy back them up.
 
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reasonsandreasons

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To back this out of theory and into specifics: I'm looking to buy a couple of 6.4 - 8 TB U.2 drives in the next few months. I want to exercise caution but I also want to take advantage of the deals that are going on right now. Are their particular things I should be on the lookout for with U.2 drives, Intel or otherwise? Has anyone received tampered U.2 drives sold as new from ServerPartsDeals or another seller? The current market situation is scrambling what I consider "too good to be true," as I imagine there's a substantial amount of new inventory out there that will only move at a substantial discount.

ETA: Looks like there's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence of tampering or other atypical failure modes in this thread. I'd be interested to see any more, though!
 
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Samir

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So US and China you are warning against then?

And if its impossible to back it up with something, does that not say something about the weight it carries?..

That there is a default risk is not a given, thats not a worldwide view/opinion.

When views get used as fact its time to actualy back them up.
No, it's two different ways of apporaching business, west and east. Pick the one you're comfortable with; caution for when you're working with the one you're not familar with (if prudent).

No because that's not necessary in logic. Let's do some examples:
If evidence A proves product B is a legit:
and we have evidence A,
then product B is legit.

However if we have no A,
that implies no B, or that B is not legit.

This works because there is hard evidence for something to be a legitimate product--it would be deeded so by the manufacturer.

Whatever a worldwide opinion may be, it would not change material facts.

See above explanation of logic to see why your call for 'facts' is incorrect.
 
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Samir

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To back this out of theory and into specifics: I'm looking to buy a couple of 6.4 - 8 TB U.2 drives in the next few months. I want to exercise caution but I also want to take advantage of the deals that are going on right now. Are their particular things I should be on the lookout for with U.2 drives, Intel or otherwise? Has anyone received tampered U.2 drives sold as new from ServerPartsDeals or another seller? The current market situation is scrambling what I consider "too good to be true," as I imagine there's a substantial amount of new inventory out there that will only move at a substantial discount.

ETA: Looks like there's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence of tampering or other atypical failure modes in this thread. I'd be interested to see any more, though!
I think you've already found one good example of some issues. I would just do some general internet searches for 6.4 U.2 and some choice key words and that should give you a good starting point. Remember that 90% of the people that run into problems won't ever make a post on it, so you're going to be looking for the needle in the haystack right now.

Or you could do the other thing and just wait--if there's enough tempting inventory flooding the market, there will be lots of buyers that can be the guinea pig for you. And then the online postings will come and shake it all out for you. :)
 

Cruzader

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No because that's not necessary in logic. Let's do some examples:
If evidence A proves product B is a legit:
and we have evidence A,
then product B is legit.

However if we have no A,
that implies no B, or that B is not legit.

This works because there is hard evidence for something to be a legitimate product--it would be deeded so by the manufacturer.

Whatever a worldwide opinion may be, it would not change material facts.

See above explanation of logic to see why your call for 'facts' is incorrect.
Thats not the logic you follow in general tho.
Thats the impossible to meet criteria you set for only some sellers based on region.

You dont actualy apply that to all sellers.
99% of threads on here do not have A, you dont have a problem with that in general.


But maybe its the new logic you are adopting?
So you will be warning about all used hardware from now on.
 
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nev_neo

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Thats not the logic you follow in general tho.
Thats the impossible to meet criteria you set for only some sellers based on region.

You dont actualy apply that to all sellers.
99% of threads on here do not have A, you dont have a problem with that in general.


But maybe its the new logic you are adopting?
So you will be warning about all used hardware from now on.
Honestly though, after this chia mining craze, I am very suspicious of used storage. I was not aware SMART info could be wiped or altered, so all these SSD's that are flooding the market as new/unused are just a huge red flag in general.
I don't really care if they come from china or usa, they're ALL suspects !!
 
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Samir

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Thats not the logic you follow in general tho.
Thats the impossible to meet criteria you set for only some sellers based on region.

You dont actualy apply that to all sellers.
99% of threads on here do not have A, you dont have a problem with that in general.


But maybe its the new logic you are adopting?
So you will be warning about all used hardware from now on.
That is exactly the logic I follow, especially for my own purchases. It's not impossible to meet--every legit manufacturer has a legit authorized distributor in every region of the world where they sell product. If it falls outside of this, many manufacturers will even say in their warranty legal verbage that the warranty is void.

Yes, you actually do apply it to all sellers--but the result is not black and white as there are additional variables for each seller. Hence why caution and discernment is necessary to wade through all of it.

Not following the 'new logic' you speak of.

See above about the result not being black and white.
 
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