CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

[Ayugai Michiko]

I've got a CWWK N100 6 port router that I'm using for OPNSense. The BIOS version is CW-ADLN-6L Ver: 1.4. I've run iperf3 to check throughput and although it starts off ok (2.3Gbps), the throughput drop off significantly after 5-10 seconds. This is without any additional processing like Zenarmour enabled. From what I can see, the CPU frequency drops to 400-800mhz at this point. It doesn't appear to be temperature throttling as the core temps never get beyond 38°C. Someone has suggested that the PL1/PL2 settings may need tweaked. However I don't see these in the BIOS. Does anyone have a version of the BIOS for the 6 port router with PL1/PL2 settings enabled?

I thought N100 base clock speed is 800 MHz. How are you reading below that? Not familiar with OPNSense yet, plan on using it soon, but I recall there might be some settings causing it to speeds step down to conserve power?


Played around with my N305 6 port version. Think I got Type C variant as it has tall fin design. Fresh installed Proxmox, nothing else setup/confingured & did some light stress test via CLI. At idle it is about 42C with 20C room ambient.

Looped ethernet cable from port-2 to port-3 & ran a 5 minute "iperf -c" test. (As a Windows user not familiar with debian/linux so I followed this script as an example)

• iperf 1 thread, maxed out 2.48 Gbits/sec, CPU temp 51-52C, cores jumped around 2.6 Ghz
• iperf 8 thread, maxed out 2.48 Gbits/sec, CPU temp 51-52C, cores ranged between 2.2-3.1 Ghz
• iperf doesn't seem to max out the cpu or needs it.

Cpu 5min stress load with "stress -c"

• 1 thread, CPU temp 65C, cores around 3.7 Ghz
• 8 thread, CPU temp 75C+, cores 1.6 Ghz
• Single core it handles steady max boost, but full 8cores it throttles down alot.
• If 8 thread load ran longer than 5min it would definitely get super hot.
• Heatsink fins were pretty warm to touch. Probably enough to keep my cup of tea warm if used as a coaster tray.

My BIOS has no settings to change PL1/PL2. Some users on their forums voiced the issue. CWWK acknowledged as known issue & advise them to just return... Guess they plan not to release BIOS update? Maybe I don't need to edit PL1/PL2. Minipc N100/N305 reviews show increasing power limit only net single digit performance gains. Not sure what CWWK PL1/PL2 values are used but already pretty toasty at default.

Planning on buying some thermal paste & copper shim in hopes of lowering CPU temp. Also want to add a 80mm fan inside.
Tried emailing support@cwwk.com, y@changwang.com, & cwwk.net web submission contact. All no response the past week. Only got received MX bounce back failure from gmail. The box came with a micro 4-pin adapter to normal 4-pin for a fan. Normally the pin-out cable coloring is [black-red-yellow-blue] but the included adapter is different [black-blue-yellow-red]. The red/blue colors are reverse. Is this right?

Also users here experiencing occasional crashes, esp memtest, due to load spikes which the stock PSU was insufficient. Hence I'm sourcing a higher quality replacement as well.

 

[dss]

I thought N100 base clock speed is 800 MHz. How are you reading below that

Yeah it is strange. This is the output under load

$ sysctl -a | grep dev.cpu.*.freq:
dev.cpu.3.freq: 402
dev.cpu.2.freq: 402
dev.cpu.1.freq: 402
dev.cpu.0.freq: 402

The strange thing is that the CPU core temperatures actually drop under load. Typically I’m seeing 35°C at idle and then when the load starts I see 40°C for a few seconds before it drops down to 30°C for the remainder of the iperf load test.

Someone in another thread/forum was seeing similar frequencies (402mhz) on a 4 port CWWK unit. They fixed it by increasing PL1. They also found the issue was only present in FreeBSD but ok running Linux. So maybe this is some sort of incompatibility between FreeBSD and the BIOS settings.

Would like to try increasing PL1 if anyone has a bios that enables this for the 6 port N100/N305 CWWK router.

 

[nerverg]

Reporting my experience with a 2 port N100 CWWK model - CW-X86-P5.

Installed an Intel Optane P1600X 58GB NVME drive, Crucial 32GB 4800MHz CT32G48C40S5, and using stock power supply.

Memtest failed pretty quickly. Temperature was warm but not HOT. I installed proxmox anyway, fired up a VM and let a lot of slowly running packages install overnight. The unit was crashed in the morning. I tried adjusting several BIOS settings, focusing on reducing power consumption, with the same crashing results.

Next I ordered a Crucial 8GB 4800MHz CT8G48C40S5 and installed it. Memtest passed with flying colors, no issues in Proxomx.

I’m a little bit at a loss as the specific 32GB stick model was reported as working up thread. I may just have a bum stick or maybe my CWWK unit is finicky. Next troubleshooting step for me is a replacement 3rd party power supply, and maybe trying a 48GB ram stick for giggles.

Taking into account that Max Memory Size for N100 is officially 16 GB, it's no wunder that 32 GB is not always functioning properly. Althougth, CWWK does sell X86 P5 Super Mini Router configured with 32 GB RAM...

 

[Alec246]

Hey there guys. I am sorry to come here asking so obvious question, without reading what has been going on before, but its 98 pages of reading, i will do eventually, but will take me weeks!

What I kindly ask is which Model / Variation overall would you recommend currently using a N100 Fanless? I will be running 1Gig FTTH and plan on using Zenarmor, as dedicated Router. There are different brands, each with different fin design etc, i get completely lost I dont mind purchasing directly from Aliexpress instead of a fast ship from Europe where I live.

Initially I was considering the N305, but I gave up, seems overkill for 1Gig right? And it must be much harder to keep cool as a Fanless unit, so I am hoping the N100 do the job alone!

Thank you so much!

Edit:

After reading a few pages here, and browsing CWWK official page, is this the one I Should get?
12th Gen Intel Firewall Mini PC Alder Lake i3 N305 8 Core N200 N100 Fanless Soft Router Proxmox DDR5 4800MHz 4xi226-V 2.5G – cwwk

 

[Ayugai Michiko]

Opened my N305-6L to see what thickness copper shim I need to buy. Mine seems pretty flush? Hard to tell if a gap exist. Tugged on a piece of printer paper placed between CPU/Heatsink. Wasn't loose and held with some friction. Should I still get a 0.1mm copper shim?

Reapplied thermal paste in the meantime. Sided on bit more than too little. Did I put too much thermal paste back on?

 

[Ayugai Michiko]

I confirm that it is 1.25mm pitch for FAN. I just don't know the pinouts whether they are compatible with PWM FAN.

Have you figured out whether a regular PWM fan from Noctua etc would work?

Mine included this adapter. The wire color is different order. Normally the PWM fans are Black (GND), Yellow (12v), Green (Tach), Blue (PWM)


Saw this 80x80x10 PWM fan on AMZN where the user review complained it didn't work with their desktop motherboard. While another user said it worked with their fanless minipc. Chinese fans use non-standard wiring?

update 1:

Think I got an adapter that CWWK wired wrong. This user's included adapter coloring is the normal PWM. I connected the adapter to the motherboard and measured each pin's voltage. Black (GND), Blue 2.2v, Yellow 9.5v, and Red 10.5v

update 2:

CWWK support said my included 4-pin adapter is wired incorrectly. Should be (Black | Red | Yellow | Blue)

Lucky I didn't plug a fan into it. Not sure what kind of damage would have occurred.

 

[idle_user]

Reapplied thermal paste in the meantime. Sided on bit more than too little. Did I put too much thermal paste back on?

Lol you should be fine but that is definitely way too much thermal paste.

You only need a thin layer. I get the technique of the blob in the middle and having the pressure spread it out, but it would be more effective if you just spread a thin layer across the die.

As for the shim, please take a look at my previous posts in this thread (few pages back). I include the shim size I used with some images. My thermals definitely improved.

 

[choas]

Reporting my experience with a 2 port N100 CWWK model - CW-X86-P5.

Installed an Intel Optane P1600X 58GB NVME drive, Crucial 32GB 4800MHz CT32G48C40S5, and using stock power supply.

Memtest failed pretty quickly. Temperature was warm but not HOT. I installed proxmox anyway, fired up a VM and let a lot of slowly running packages install overnight. The unit was crashed in the morning. I tried adjusting several BIOS settings, focusing on reducing power consumption, with the same crashing results.

Next I ordered a Crucial 8GB 4800MHz CT8G48C40S5 and installed it. Memtest passed with flying colors, no issues in Proxomx.

I’m a little bit at a loss as the specific 32GB stick model was reported as working up thread. I may just have a bum stick or maybe my CWWK unit is finicky. Next troubleshooting step for me is a replacement 3rd party power supply, and maybe trying a 48GB ram stick for giggles.

Same here. Same model, same memory.
Proxmox and Opnsense combo works like a charm till it doesn't. Memtest runs fine first run, second time fails.
I prefer 32Gb but I prefer a stable system more. Any suggestions? Or should I go for 16Gb?

 

[cthulolz]

Same here. Same model, same memory.
Proxmox and Opnsense combo works like a charm till it doesn't. Memtest runs fine first run, second time fails.
I prefer 32Gb but I prefer a stable system more. Any suggestions? Or should I go for 16Gb?

No suggestions. I haven’t had time to troubleshoot further as my little free time has been spent trying to get an unmanaged QNAP 2 port 10G / 4 port 2.5G switch RMA’d due to issues with the 2.5G ports (that’s a write up for another day). I am still planning on trying to find a replacement PSU for the N100 as suggested upthread and see if that stabilizes things.

 

[choas]

No suggestions. I haven’t had time to troubleshoot further as my little free time has been spent trying to get an unmanaged QNAP 2 port 10G / 4 port 2.5G switch RMA’d due to issues with the 2.5G ports (that’s a write up for another day). I am still planning on trying to find a replacement PSU for the N100 as suggested upthread and see if that stabilizes things.

Forgot to mention I don't use the PSU that came with it. I use a Leicke 36W 12V 3A.

 

[Alec246]

Would like to ask if its normal to not hear anything from CWWK.net 2-3 days after a purchase? They confirmed the order but so far nothing else

 

[inetjnky]

Would like to ask if its normal to not hear anything from CWWK.net 2-3 days after a purchase? They confirmed the order but so far nothing else

yes, took almost a week before I received a shipping notice but I tried contacting them a few times but never received a response.

 

[Stereodude]

Would like to ask if its normal to not hear anything from CWWK.net 2-3 days after a purchase? They confirmed the order but so far nothing else

There is some holiday going on right now in China for the next couple of days, so that might explain part of it.

 

[inetjnky]

Yeah they have responded to me in chat. I was able to order 4 vesa wall mounts successfully.

 

[Alec246]

Thank you all! I got a response via the chat!

 

[splifingate]

Would like to ask if its normal to not hear anything from CWWK.net 2-3 days after a purchase? They confirmed the order but so far nothing else

This was 'normal', for me.

I (semi-patiently) waited almost two weeks--with little dialogue--in-between my purchase, and shipping.

All came-through well, in the end

 

[Rokkie]

I thought N100 base clock speed is 800 MHz. How are you reading below that? Not familiar with OPNSense yet, plan on using it soon, but I recall there might be some settings causing it to speeds step down to conserve power?


Played around with my N305 6 port version. Think I got Type C variant as it has tall fin design. Fresh installed Proxmox, nothing else setup/confingured & did some light stress test via CLI. At idle it is about 42C with 20C room ambient.

Looped ethernet cable from port-2 to port-3 & ran a 5 minute "iperf -c" test. (As a Windows user not familiar with debian/linux so I followed this script as an example)

• iperf 1 thread, maxed out 2.48 Gbits/sec, CPU temp 51-52C, cores jumped around 2.6 Ghz
• iperf 8 thread, maxed out 2.48 Gbits/sec, CPU temp 51-52C, cores ranged between 2.2-3.1 Ghz
• iperf doesn't seem to max out the cpu or needs it.

Cpu 5min stress load with "stress -c"

• 1 thread, CPU temp 65C, cores around 3.7 Ghz
• 8 thread, CPU temp 75C+, cores 1.6 Ghz
• Single core it handles steady max boost, but full 8cores it throttles down alot.
• If 8 thread load ran longer than 5min it would definitely get super hot.
• Heatsink fins were pretty warm to touch. Probably enough to keep my cup of tea warm if used as a coaster tray.

My BIOS has no settings to change PL1/PL2. Some users on their forums voiced the issue. CWWK acknowledged as known issue & advise them to just return... Guess they plan not to release BIOS update? Maybe I don't need to edit PL1/PL2. Minipc N100/N305 reviews show increasing power limit only net single digit performance gains. Not sure what CWWK PL1/PL2 values are used but already pretty toasty at default.

Planning on buying some thermal paste & copper shim in hopes of lowering CPU temp. Also want to add a 80mm fan inside.
Tried emailing support@cwwk.com, y@changwang.com, & cwwk.net web submission contact. All no response the past week. Only got received MX bounce back failure from gmail. The box came with a micro 4-pin adapter to normal 4-pin for a fan. Normally the pin-out cable coloring is [black-red-yellow-blue] but the included adapter is different [black-blue-yellow-red]. The red/blue colors are reverse. Is this right?

Also users here experiencing occasional crashes, esp memtest, due to load spikes which the stock PSU was insufficient. Hence I'm sourcing a higher quality replacement as well.

I've currently installed an 80mm fan without any issues, using the micro 4-pin to standard 4-pin adapter cable he provided.



And I think you should set it to power saving mode. Because this will reduce its idle power consumption.

/usr/bin/cpupower -c all frequency-set -g powersave

 

[Stovar]

Out of interest can one buy that micro 4-pin to standard 4-pin adapter cable or this one anywhere?

 

[Rokkie]

Out of interest can one buy that micro 4-pin to standard 4-pin adapter cable or this one anywhere?

amazon AliExpress temu

 

[Ayugai Michiko]

There is some holiday going on right now in China for the next couple of days, so that might explain part of it.

CWWK.net order invoice email instructs to contact y@changwang.com for question but you'll get bounce back undeliverable notice. Same with support@cwwk.com

Their chat box on cwwk.net, if you're lucky, responds to you live. If not, it might take a few days via shopify-email. Notice they respond faster inquiring of new purchase, but much slower with issues of existing order.

Out of interest can one buy that micro 4-pin to standard 4-pin adapter cable or this one anywhere?

Search on AMZN/Ali for "Micro 4-Pin" OR "4 pin jst 1.25"