Comparison: Intel i350-T4 Genuine vs Fake

creidhne

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All these cards use genuine Intel controllers - but what we've found is that plenty of other companies than Intel are churning out the cards. Some use brands, some are unbranded, and some try hard to make their cards look like Intel cards.

The none-Intel cards are significantly cheaper, and 99.9% of the time work just fine - you definitely don't need to return these cards for refund as "fakes". But you do need to understand the differences and only pay none-Intel prices for the none-Intel cards.

The counterfeit discussion is only valid when somebody is trying to pass off none-Intel cards as Intel cards, and pricing them as Intel cards. These are the sales to avoid and return if you get stung !

There's nothing dishonest about a card not made by Intel, as long as you know it's not made by Intel...
They look correct though, with all the components as on the genuine card from the first post in this thread - even the small details match, with the exception of the small inductors (but this is v2 card, not v1 as in the first post, so maybe that's OK). There's also that extra sticker placed on the back of ethernet sockets. The ones that I got earlier come with yottamark stickers:

Screenshot 2021-07-02 at 11-26-37 Verify Code at YottaMark com.png

These don't sell well in Poland, so they just go for cheap - it's not that they were made cheaply. One of the sellers I purchased extra cards yesterday (arrives on Monday) from I got info that the cards that he has for sale come from new Dell servers - if you configure a server with 6x LAN, two ports are integrated, and Dell throws exactly those cards in. Apparently the seller didn't need all of them. I can throw in some photos of the cards when the extra few arrive on Monday. Those come with bradyid stickers, and are reporting "suspect code due to authenticating it several times" which isn't a surprise for me since photos of it were posted publicly.
 
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Terry Kennedy

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All these cards use genuine Intel controllers - but what we've found is that plenty of other companies than Intel are churning out the cards. Some use brands, some are unbranded, and some try hard to make their cards look like Intel cards.
It doesn't help that Intel themselves are making identical cards for other companies to sell. I've commented before that it would be much better if Intel labeled their own cards as something like "Intel X550-T2 Server Adapter" and the cards they make for others as "X550-T2 Server Adapter by Intel". I've also said that they should Yottamark (actually, they switched to BradyID to get a lower price) all of their cards, not just the ones packaged for individual sale to end users. But I guess the few pennies extra are more important to them than maintaining a reputation.
 
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paylesspizzaman

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Any advise on the Supermicro variant? Part AOC-SGP-I4. I don't see the Delta embossing on the transformers, but I looked at a bunch of pics from different sellers and they all look the same. Also, the Supermicro one looks physically smaller than the Dell ones. Why can it be smaller?
 
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Samir

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Any advise on the Supermicro variant? Part AOC-SGP-I4. I don't see the Delta embossing on the transformers, but I looked at a bunch of pics from different sellers and they all look the same. Also, the Supermicro one looks physically smaller than the Dell ones. Why can it be smaller?
Supermicro is one of those companies that can make their own design using the intel chip, so the card can be smaller, differently shaped, etc. The main thing that's hard for companies with smaller runs like this is finding out what is a fake versus genuine (price can tell you a lot), but a lot of times smaller runs can be better if they're not a well known brand--unfortunately supermicro is, so I'd be careful about the bait and switch of what you see versus what you get.
 
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Samir

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Real or fake as long as it does the job as expected and last that's all that counts in the end
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement and philosophy. The reason we even have fakes is because of this ideology.

If you want to buy fakes and live where this is normal, go move to the countries where this is normal and finding genuine anything is next to impossible. And then deal with all the broken infrastructure and corruption and other problems that come along with this type of ideology. Theft and one-sided give and take arrangements are not sustainable--something will give.

Personally, I don't mind paying enough for a company to make a genuine product that sustains the company to make more genuine products. And if I can't afford it today, that's fine because when these products pass on into the used market, they are affordable enough and still have the original integrity of a genuine product.
I did get a f ull reund, this what he said when I contacted the seller:
Can you share this seller so others can avoid them? They definitely seem to give 2Fs about what they are selling and just the profit.
 

Meomad

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By a coincidence, I know the origin of these items. It's basically a genuine board, but has a manufacturing defect. It should have been destroyed, but for some mysterious reason it was leaked to the black market. underground factories will finish it and put it on the market. China's pc parts trading market has seen many batches of fakes being produced like this, whenever something is in short supply, faulty circuit boards are used to make everything. from SSD,HDD, ram,motherboard...ect.
(sorry my English is so bad)
 

Samir

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Thank you for the insight. Just another data point as to why manufacturing needs to be moved from these shady places.
 

TRACKER

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Yes, the prices will also move in "up" direction once manufacturing leave the shady places :)
 

Samir

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Yes, the prices will also move in "up" direction once manufacturing leave the shady places :)
I doubt it will move that much. There are already some companies that have proven that they can manufacture domestic and still be competitive, just not on semiconductors...yet.

The whole glamour of cheap overseas labor is over. With bait and switch practices, shady qa, and IP theft, it's getting clearer and clearer that keeping what you make close to you makes more sense. The pandemic has just highlighted this as overseas operations have basically been completely out of control--and companies are finally looking at domestic solutions and finding them not as bad as they once were cost-wise.
 

Samir

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Never gonna happen. Economics trumps everything else.
Yep, it's getting to a point where the TCO of overseas and the junk that comes with it is no longer worth it. What's the point of manufacturing overseas when in two years your proprietary product market is suddenly flooded by overseas fakes from IP theft? Not worth it. Better to keep the secrets close and the customer base smaller with a reliable net profit to grow incrementally.
 

Fritz

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I own a Toyota Tacoma. It has an enormous aftermarket following. Someone can up with a useful accessory and started selling them for $100 each. Quality was top knotch as was customer support. Suddenly somebody over in China started selling a knockoff for $30 on AliExpress. Quality wasn't nearly as good but at a third of the price they are selling, judging from comments on the Tacoma forum. Just goes to show that people will always buy price. Chinese labor will always be cheaper than labor in the west. Combine this with the Chinese knack for making things cheaper, quality wise and you have a system that's hard to compete with.
 

Samir

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I own a Toyota Tacoma. It has an enormous aftermarket following. Someone can up with a useful accessory and started selling them for $100 each. Quality was top knotch as was customer support. Suddenly somebody over in China started selling a knockoff for $30 on AliExpress. Quality wasn't nearly as good but at a third of the price they are selling, judging from comments on the Tacoma forum. Just goes to show that people will always buy price. Chinese labor will always be cheaper than labor in the west. Combine this with the Chinese knack for making things cheaper, quality wise and you have a system that's hard to compete with.
This is common, and is why this 'cheap labor' benefit only opened pandora's box. The developing world wants to get to first world wages, standard of living, and wealth. And with all that will come inflation and increased costs. And once you hit those cost points, it really doesn't make sense anymore.

Case in my point is my wife's family is from Bangalore, India. I still remember dry cleaning a suit there was $10 usd, and that houses (at the time) were costing $150k usd for similar quality. I don't care how you scrimp and save, that's a lot of money when the conversion is 70:1 in favor of the dollar. You could pack 40 working people in one of those houses and they still could never afford it. (The money for all this is primarily coming from outside India.)

If costs of living increase to western levels, the wages have to, and then so will the labor costs in manufacturing. Then factor in the logistics and it's what, maybe 10% savings in that scenario? Not worth it for all the third-world crap that you have to deal with along with IP theft.

I had this discussion about 2 years ago with someone we know well who has to deal with overseeing overseas manufacturing. 2 years ago he said, no way will manufacturing come back. But just a few months ago, he is seeing the same thing I am--manufacturing will return.

And this one way money drain to china needs to stop. Why are they able to sell to our citizens direct, bypassing all customs and we cannot do the same? F-that. Block the borders and shut down that ridiculousness. That would stop the fakes pretty quickly too as the market would disappear overnight. And then those MFs will go on to the next target of theft, etc versus actually be innovative and come up with a product.

And that's the one thing about IP theft--those that copy typically don't have the spark to create, and because of that they lose once the creators stop creating. All the creators have to do is stop creating and the whole world burns...
 
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klui

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China has 3rd-world status which allows them to take advantage of shipping costs. I'm sure they are maximizing that categorization to their benefit. Most people would do the same because it's legal. But upon inspection how is a "3rd world" country able to have high speed rail, high tech manufacturing, a decent military, and a growing space program? The world has a fear of missing out and don't want to jeopardize the potential Chinese market. Guess it's all about money.
 
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Samir

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The world has a fear of missing out and don't want to jeopardize the potential Chinese market.
I think that market is another bit of PR or fake news to lure more companies to steal more IP. As a famous admiral once said...
 

Terry Kennedy

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China has 3rd-world status which allows them to take advantage of shipping costs. I'm sure they are maximizing that categorization to their benefit.
Actually, it is the Universal Postal Union that enables this. It requires any country other than the country an item was shipped from to provide free transport toward the destination. Normally that involves simple sending / receiving country pairs, but I've had parcels misrouted through a 3rd country that has then forwarded them on to the destination country without cost.

This dates from a time when the theory was that there were smaller numbers of international shipments and that the number of shipments from A -> B would be approximately the same as from B -> A, so it all works out. That isn't the case any more, particularly with China -> US shipments.

This isn't anything new - the original "ponzi scheme" was based on arbitrage of prepaid international mail reply coupons.

China Post apparently has very low rates for this sort of thing. In the past year or two I've seen fewer and fewer packages actually show up in China Post tracking - the first indication that anything is happening is a USPS "item processed through facility" from somewhere on the West Coast. I suspect that there are Chinese government-sponsored "aggregators" that transport these packages in bulk to an international trade area in the US and are essentially dumping them on the USPS's doorstep for free delivery.
 

Samir

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Actually, it is the Universal Postal Union that enables this. It requires any country other than the country an item was shipped from to provide free transport toward the destination. Normally that involves simple sending / receiving country pairs, but I've had parcels misrouted through a 3rd country that has then forwarded them on to the destination country without cost.

This dates from a time when the theory was that there were smaller numbers of international shipments and that the number of shipments from A -> B would be approximately the same as from B -> A, so it all works out. That isn't the case any more, particularly with China -> US shipments.

This isn't anything new - the original "ponzi scheme" was based on arbitrage of prepaid international mail reply coupons.

China Post apparently has very low rates for this sort of thing. In the past year or two I've seen fewer and fewer packages actually show up in China Post tracking - the first indication that anything is happening is a USPS "item processed through facility" from somewhere on the West Coast. I suspect that there are Chinese government-sponsored "aggregators" that transport these packages in bulk to an international trade area in the US and are essentially dumping them on the USPS's doorstep for free delivery.
Thank you for the insight. Yet another example of just 'gaming the system' versus earned an honest buck. Even of postage is supposed to be free, customs should not be and need to paid by the seller and if not, fine them out of business.
 

pvn0

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I've bought a i350-T4V2 on ebay and looks legit, the only thing I found weird is that of the 4 transformers, two of them have the word delta embossed in much bolder text. I have seen similar thing on some of the pictures posted here. I don't know why that would be, the serials all match so should have come from the same manufacturing line.
 
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Samir

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I've bought a i350-T4V2 on ebay and looks legit, the only thing I found weird is that of the 4 transformers, two of them have the word delta embossed in much bolder text. I have seen similar thing on some of the pictures posted here. I don't know why that would be, the serials all match so should have come from the same manufacturing line.
The serials can be faked. Plus, the fakers have seen this thread. Nearly impossible to trust intel nics on ebay to be genuine. I tried that years ago. Better to get the HP/Dell equivalent, but now even those are faked out as well...
 
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