Budget ATS (auto transfer switch) options for "homelab" size?

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Mithril

Active Member
Sep 13, 2019
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Let me know if this is the wrong forum for this, but since this is a "rackmount thing" I figured it was the best fit.

I've got a single rack "homelab" at home and am currently in the planning phases of "better handle power outages". I currently have a rackmount UPS with an option to add an external battery to it. I've been looking into using Lithium Iron Phosphate, but the cost of "doing it right" to do the DC connection, protect from backcharging, protect from over charging the SLA batteries, and so on has me thinking about just going for an "inverter charger" for the Lifepo4 pack, which acts almost like a UPS, but often dont switch as fast.

So long story short, I'm thinking of using a ATS to have the UPS switch to the inverter when power goes out. I don't need a large one, 15A 120v would more than do it. But looking around at prices makes me feel like that's not an economical option.
 

T_Minus

Build. Break. Fix. Repeat
Feb 15, 2015
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Victron Multi-Plus - MultiPlus - Victron Energy
Uninterrupted AC power (UPS function)

In the event of a grid failure, or when shore or generator power is disconnected, the inverter within the Multi is automatically activated and takes over the supply to the connected loads. This happens so fast (less than 20 milliseconds) that computers and other electronic equipment will continue to operate without disruption.


If you want to spend more the Victron Quatro gives you more options.
But the Multiplus 24/2000/50 should be around $1100, which isn't too costly if you're considering lithium batteries :D
I would use the Multiplus 24v but you can go with 12v too, the Quatro you can do 12, 24 or 48v.
 

Mithril

Active Member
Sep 13, 2019
356
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Victron Multi-Plus - MultiPlus - Victron Energy
Uninterrupted AC power (UPS function)

In the event of a grid failure, or when shore or generator power is disconnected, the inverter within the Multi is automatically activated and takes over the supply to the connected loads. This happens so fast (less than 20 milliseconds) that computers and other electronic equipment will continue to operate without disruption.


If you want to spend more the Victron Quatro gives you more options.
But the Multiplus 24/2000/50 should be around $1100, which isn't too costly if you're considering lithium batteries :D
I would use the Multiplus 24v but you can go with 12v too, the Quatro you can do 12, 24 or 48v.
Yeah, I'm not looking at getting enough batteries any time soon to justify that. This also needs to all exist "in rack". A rackmount 50AH 48V pack is what I'm considering. I'm not sure that I "trust" such a device to act as fast/correctly as a dedicated UPS, are there similar devices that automatically switch (say within 1 second or so) at a more reasonable cost? And I assume from the language these don't keep the inverter on24/7 correct?

Should I abandon the ATS idea altogether and focus on an inverter-charger with that "built in"? I don't need a lot of capacity here.


Edit: Oh boy, back to questioning everything I thought I had figured out lol. Looks like 12v and 24v inverter-chargers are more reasonably priced (and all the DC accessories as well) and if I'm already saying "maybe we don't connect the Lifepo directly to the UPS via DC" then the pack doesn't need to be 48v. There are some good rackmount 24V batteries. That would actually mean I could run several things directly from the batteries when power was out (with a blocking diode of course) rather than with a DC-DC converter...
 
Last edited:

Terry Kennedy

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Jun 25, 2015
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Should I abandon the ATS idea altogether and focus on an inverter-charger with that "built in"? I don't need a lot of capacity here.
My experience with in-rack ATS is that they cause more problems than they prevent. There is a fundamental design issue that different manufacturers have tried to address with varying degrees of lack of success.

The ideal transfer switch has both inputs in-phase and a near-instantaneous transfer time. However, you can't guarantee that both inputs are in-phase. Even with 120/240 power you have a 50% chance of being 180 degrees out of phase, and your odds with 3-phase are even worse. If one of the inputs is the output of a UPS, there's no hope of being in phase while on battery. I haven't found any manufacturers of rack ATS that use SCRs on both inputs (relays on both is most common, while SCRs on only one input can be found at a much higher cost). So you have a variable mechanical delay as the relays switch from one input to another. You can end up in a brief state where both inputs are trying to drive the ATS output. If you're lucky, one will "win" and still power your load. But it is much more probable that you'll be unlucky and you'll trip both of the feeder breakers and/or weld the relay contacts in some position.

Even if your equipment is in a datacenter and they 'guarantee' everything is on the same phase, that isn't always the case - I've had to show datacenter management that the 2 "Phase C" circuits we had were providing 208V between the relevant "hot" legs instead of the expected 0V if they were on the same phase. And even if they really are on the same phase leg, your ATS can try powering everything else on that panelboard via the other ATS feeder, leading to a breaker trip (either on the ATS or the panelboard supplying it).

I think you would be much better off with a UPS that provided internal bypass or had an external manual bypass switch. The external switch is good because you can test the whole UPS out-of-circuit when needed. APC actually built a manual bypass switch for the Symmetra RM, though it was semi-custom for a large telco and didn't appear on the price list.

Speaking of datacenter and phase follies, one place I worked had a TV studios in 2 different buildings a few blocks apart, with underground conduits full of coax cables and control lines running between them.. They had equipment that kept blowing up inputs, etc. Some genius determined that there was a neutral voltage imbalance between the two studios and decided to run a piece of 4/0 copper between the two buildings to "equalize the grounds" on the theory that the neutrals would follow, since neutral is bonded to ground at each building entrance and by definition everything on the electrical grid is in phase. They put a lug on one end of the cable and bolted it to an I-beam in the R building. When they tried to do the same in the P building, brushing the lug against the bare metal of the I-beam resulted in a "Thwomp!" sound that was apparently audible in both buildings, followed by the 4/0 cable tuning into a flashbulb and vaporizing somewhere in the conduit system. The conduit and contents were a complete write-off and had to be replaced. When they spoke to the power company, they found out that while the two buildings were only a few blocks apart, they were fed from different substations. Made a heck of a "ground loop" while it lasted. Moral of the story - sometimes being in phase isn't enough.
 
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Mithril

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Sep 13, 2019
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My experience with in-rack ATS is that they cause more problems than they prevent. There is a fundamental design issue that different manufacturers have tried to address with varying degrees of lack of success.

The ideal transfer switch has both inputs in-phase and a near-instantaneous transfer time. However, you can't guarantee that both inputs are in-phase.[...]


I think you would be much better off with a UPS that provided internal bypass or had an external manual bypass switch. The external switch is good because you can test the whole UPS out-of-circuit when needed. APC actually built a manual bypass switch for the Symmetra RM, though it was semi-custom for a large telco and didn't appear on the price list.

[...]
For my usecase the ATS would be upstream of the UPS, not downstream of it so I don't need that fast or "UPS like" transfer. I'm gathering that the real best way is an inverter-charger (or similar) that has the cutover from incoming AC to (pure sine wave) inverter power internal, and to place that upstream of the existing UPS (even if the inverter took a full minute to kick on that would be fine in this case). This is for a homelab, 99.99% uptime on power would make me happy enough, so long as I don't need to wake up, go into the garage in the dark at 3am to mess about ever again.
 

billc.cn

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Oct 6, 2017
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I was on a similar boat not too long ago and found that used APC ATS are not that expensive on eBay here in the UK. (Often <£100)

If lucky, you can get one with network management and current monitoring.

I basically ditched my UPS and use the ATS to switch between the inverter and the mains power.

My next step is to get rid of the inverter altogether and power everything from DC. Nothing electronic runs on AC anyway. Intel is even trying to push a new 12V-only motherboard power standard. Pico-PSU can solve the rest.
 

Mithril

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Sep 13, 2019
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I was on a similar boat not too long ago and found that used APC ATS are not that expensive on eBay here in the UK. (Often <£100)

If lucky, you can get one with network management and current monitoring.

I basically ditched my UPS and use the ATS to switch between the inverter and the mains power.

My next step is to get rid of the inverter altogether and power everything from DC. Nothing electronic runs on AC anyway. Intel is even trying to push a new 12V-only motherboard power standard. Pico-PSU can solve the rest.
Any suggestions for model numbers to watch for?

I'm in process of going DC or DC-DC for all the critical things that I can, except the NAS/server since I expect to power those down for any outage longer than 30 minutes anyways, and I'm much more comfortable running a 20-30 watt load on the DC-ATX pico and similar than a bunch of HDD. I think if I was running a NAS on DC direct I'd have to invest in a "proper" DC-ATX but most of those seem to expect "telco" negative 48V. And I'm also not sure how well they tolerate the potential charging voltage of a lifepo/SLA pack. There are *some* things that I can't easily go DC-DC, like the ONT for FTTH. And I'd also love to be able to power a deep freeze and fridge from a "passthough" inverter and/or ATS.

I'm in the market for some good DC-DC buck converters (I blewup one of my better ones being careless :( ) but the current electronics market is rough
 

billc.cn

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Oct 6, 2017
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Any suggestions for model numbers to watch for?
My ebay saved search is "apc (ap7722, ap7723, su042, su043, su044, su045, ap4422, ap4423)"

I would not recommend the super old "su" models because the newer ones often get mis-priced to super low price anyway.
 

JCX

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Mar 3, 2019
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Does anybody know if APC ATS rated for 230V input can be used with 220v UPS. I plan on buying a used AP7721 off ebay and have it shipped to my country in South America where voltage is 220v. APC support couldn't confirm whether they would work or not on 220v but from what I've read it might work just fine, any help is appreciated.
 

Mithril

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Sep 13, 2019
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Does anybody know if APC ATS rated for 230V input can be used with 220v UPS. I plan on buying a used AP7721 off ebay and have it shipped to my country in South America where voltage is 220v. APC support couldn't confirm whether they would work or not on 220v but from what I've read it might work just fine, any help is appreciated.
So my understanding is that "230v" tends to mean "220v-240V" (much like how 120V in the us is really 115 +/- 5) this accounts for variations due to the grid etc. Many "230v" products also work at 208V (the voltage between 2 phases of 3 phase) but not all of them do.

The bigger question in my mind is if theres a difference between a 50Hz and 60Hz version of an ATS (I wouldn't think so but it's possible)
 
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