AMD making a fool of Threadripper customers - AGAIN?

111alan

Active Member
Mar 11, 2019
208
47
28
Haerbing Institution of Technology
Actually, I lost interest with you too. Everyone knows what "part of" means, and where the "other parts" are. OSPRAY, which is completely written by intel, has no bias against other CPUs. I can't possibly test every single thing written by intel, and people can always post counter proofs. I'll gladly change my mind if someone does.

But you don't care. You only misinterpret my ideas, and accuse me "cherry picking" without even mentioning where did I pick from. You could just be a little bit reasonable, and actually prove your point with just any counter proof that shows otherwise. And I welcome that, it's all good conversation that widen the eye of everyone.

But do we see any proof from you? No, not a single one.

You want others to be absolutely rigorous, but you didn't even try to be rigorous.

I never said using a certain benchmark, or buying a certain brand, is intolerable, in fact I stated multiple times that I disagree with these ideas. But you want others to believe that I think this way. Can I say my worst interpretation is, you want to show others that I'm not thinking with logic?

Restatement: Boasting Cinebench and CPUZ benchmarks, along with using only CSGO as the representation of all games, are two of the common patterns seen in those fanboy/paid reviews, videos and posts.

In fact, I'm beginning to doubt your developer status. Every other developer I know are humble, friendly and most importantly, never insult people just because they feel like it. They don't just elaborate on some imperfections which strictly isn't wrong, and start roasting people.

Currently I'm working on fixing my broken VS that won't uninstall. After I finished with the setup, I will compile X265 with both MSVC and ICC, and test them again on one of my friend's AMD system without asm option. I do agree that just testing the performance differences outside the core assembly isn't ideal, and your suggestion is constructive. How can I "cherry pick" if I do every test in question that people pointed out. But this will probably be the last thing I do for you.

Yeah, because speaking sharp truth is bad, ill-intended, you think. But I disagree. I also disagree that people can just say anything without proof.

Now that I know I don't need to deal with the fans in STH, I'll never bring up this topic again after this one is done, unless fanboys start invading.
 
Last edited:

msg7086

Active Member
May 2, 2017
385
137
43
34
I'll gladly change my mind if someone does.
For god sake, I have zero interests on changing your mind. I'm not your father or your teacher and I don't give a **** about what's in your mind. As long as you stop spamming the forum with the so called proofs, you can think whatever you want. You can think me as a dead man or a dog, whatever you like if this makes you comfortable.

You could just be a little bit reasonable
I have been giving your face and was trying to speak as peaceful as I could regarding to those BS talks. Unfortunately my patient is gone after 5 pages of that.

But do we see any proof from you? No, not a single one.
You seems to be so serious about proofs. Providing proofs and asking for proofs. You started your accusation yet you ask me to show proofs. Did you lose your mind? Here in the United States people are innocent until proven guilty, where the proofs must be true and complete. Don't bring your habit in China here, please? Keep them at Chinese forums and I thank you for that.

In fact, I'm beginning to doubt your developer status. Every other developers I know are humble, friendly and most importantly, never create enemies just by imagining what they think.
lol please definitely doubt my personality if that makes you more comfortable. Yet I give zero **** about how you think about me. I have zero tolerance towards trash talking. If this kind of non-sense reply starts in anywhere that I control, you'll be banned in no time. Luckily moderators here are so kind that they only confronted you and let you stay. Oh right, I know the word you want to say, censorship, right?

But this will probably be the last thing I do for you.
You might have misunderstood what I was doing. I was teaching you how to make a proper and valid proof. This is the last thing I do for you, and I don't need anything from you for me. I said clearly from the beginning, that I don't believe Intel still cripple AMD (but you don't seems to understand somehow. Would it be better for me to translate everything to Chinese?). The court case has been settled and Intel has fixed their mistake, and I trust that to certain extent. The problem was YOU being acting like this. I have zero problem with Intel, and if they actually publish some cool things I'll surely buy or try them. Their NICs have been great, and their NVDIMM tech has been pretty interesting. But their consumer market is not doing great, which is fine. However those who are trying to convince people how good or bad AMD or Intel is, i.e. fanboys, are what I'm sick of. Not just Intel fanboys but also AMD fanboys.

If you want to make clear and strong accusation, please back it with solid proofs. Really SOLID proofs. Ideally the proof should be as solid as a proof on the courtroom. Not those "my friend says" or "are they coincidence" or "I tested on my computer" type of non-sense proofs. I'm OK with you simply stating those as opinions or personal experiences, but I'm not OK with you stating those as "facts" without solid proofs.

Hope I've been clear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RageBone

ReturnedSword

Active Member
Jun 15, 2018
463
167
43
Santa Monica, CA
@111alan I think you’re making the situation worse here.

I completely understand how discussions in China-based forums work. Also the cultural habits. I think you’re misunderstanding western style discussions. We don’t care much about saving face here, and serious discussions should not include pridefulness. Escalating is not constructive at all.

Most people on this forum are IT professionals, working for big companies. Personally I have been doing IT professionally for about 20 years. We don’t have time for non-serious theoreticals. Talking about tech is just our hobby outside of work. If you skim through other threads, people are sharing information and trying to help each other, not arguing over things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RageBone

111alan

Active Member
Mar 11, 2019
208
47
28
Haerbing Institution of Technology
@111alan I think you’re making the situation worse here.

I completely understand how discussions in China-based forums work. Also the cultural habits. I think you’re misunderstanding western style discussions. We don’t care much about saving face here, and serious discussions should not include pridefulness. Escalating is not constructive at all.

Most people on this forum are IT professionals, working for big companies. Personally I have been doing IT professionally for about 20 years. We don’t have time for non-serious theoreticals. Talking about tech is just our hobby outside of work. If you skim through other threads, people are sharing information and trying to help each other, not arguing over things.
I like the environment that everyone is professional. It's less messy, more knowledge driven. People usually take reasons rather than resorting to some empty beliefs. I don't like to talk about non-technical things either, actually I hate it very much. I talked about it just because I think it needs to be done. And if people have questions, I need to answer with reasons. People overlook things all the time, they need some hints. Me included.

Sometimes the situation may get out of control when we talk about this. Such are all "politics" stuffs.

This is not the first time I met a person like this. High attitude, think everyone else's garbage, while spreading rootless arguments and having tons of issues themselves. There was a fake expert I met about two years ago, he's just like this guy here, pretending to be a teacher but actually only aiming at roasting everyone who disagree with him. Then I pointed out like ten valid problems in his article and posts, in which most of them didn't get a proper answer, and people stop trusting him. I think someone needs to be a fool to really believe in some rootless accusations.

I usually approach people with relatively good attitude, but tbh not everyone can be a friend. What can you do if every one of his posts is aiming to roast you?
We don’t care much about saving face here, and serious discussions should not include pridefulness. Escalating is not constructive at all.
I like this. Although I still think that everyone has dignity and reputation to keep.
Now this is what's really concerning here.
I'll still answer every legit question. Although I'm not a full-time programmer myself, I know a lot of them, and I've experimented a lot of things like this (this is probably why I installed too many weird compilers and broke my vs2017).I do not consider myself professional, but I've tested like several dozens of CPUs and SSDs in recent years, with real life workload and in mind, while selecting/creating several testing scenes, scripts and mathematical models to help with mine and other's the testing in the process. I still consider myself a HW player, but getting thorough with everything is my playstyle.
 
Last edited:

tinfoil3d

QSFP28
May 11, 2020
547
191
43
Japan
It would have also helped if you'd avoid getting too personal because it's not bringing any value whatsoever to the discussion, if one is intended at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 111alan

111alan

Active Member
Mar 11, 2019
208
47
28
Haerbing Institution of Technology
It would have also helped if you'd avoid getting too personal because it's not bringing any value whatsoever to the discussion, if one is intended at all.
Totally agree. I don't attack anyone before he attacks me, and I tried not to even when he did. I don't know why he's so triggered about the bad actions I listed about AMD and Chiphell, or that single imperfect proof concerning ICC. It's not even technically wrong, the performance outside the asm part should still be affected if there are cheats, such as disabling instruction sets, implemented in ICC, but we saw no traces at all.

He thinks he's all omniscient, constantly right, everyone else is trash, and nothing is needed to back up these thoughts. If people try to prove he's ideas are wrong, it's all "cherry picking". Why? How to not be "cherry picking"? Sorry it's top secret. After all, is it possible to communicate with a self-proclaimed jesus?
 
Last edited:

leon_pro

New Member
Nov 3, 2017
24
5
3
38
That's 2 generations.
Oh, that's so generous! We should also note socket LGA775.

1. Everybody knows that Intel changes sockets nearly every generation and they haven't made any promises that they wouldn't
I'm just wondering, did Intel broke any of it's promises?
I can understand that nobody wants to have extra expenses for upgrading motherboard as well, but I can't understand why there's so much hate to AMD for things that's OK for Intel?
 

NablaSquaredG

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2020
604
260
63
Oh, that's so generous! We should also note socket LGA775.
???
That's pretty pointless comparison

I'm just wondering, did Intel broke any of it's promises?
I can understand that nobody wants to have extra expenses for upgrading motherboard as well, but I can't understand why there's so much hate to AMD for things that's OK for Intel?
Intel doesn't promise but sometimes gives you compatibility.

AMD promises compatibility but then breaks their promise.

Like I said a couple of times before: This wouldn't be a problem if AMD hadn't promised compatibility for TRX40. But they did. Which was a reason to buy TRX40 instead of something else.
 

111alan

Active Member
Mar 11, 2019
208
47
28
Haerbing Institution of Technology
Oh, that's so generous! We should also note socket LGA775.


I'm just wondering, did Intel broke any of it's promises?
I can understand that nobody wants to have extra expenses for upgrading motherboard as well, but I can't understand why there's so much hate to AMD for things that's OK for Intel?
Actually LGA 1151 is sorta like 775, if you can accept some 3rd party bioses.
 

ReturnedSword

Active Member
Jun 15, 2018
463
167
43
Santa Monica, CA
Ok, then let’s third party firmware mod our TRX40 boards to support Threadripper 20k series which will be released in year 2035. Then use the sTRX4 to zWXZ16 socket adapter to adapt the socket. Problem solved. No more issues here. /s

How does third party firmware prove anything? If anything it proves Intel artificially breaks support - after all they barely improved CPU and I/O side from 2nd to 5th gen, then again from 6th to 10th gen. Whereas it can be inferred from technical releases that AMD socket change from sTR4 to sTRX4 was due to physical and electrical changes to support PCIe 4.

Where is AMD promising support? In the Reddit thread? Then the thread was picked up by wccftech before spreading elsewhere? If anyone needs reminding, Reddit is NOT a place where corporations make formal announcements. They do such things in press releases. AMD hadn’t said anything anywhere else. I have read the thread and re-read it again. The wording is not explicit in what some people may believe it to be. I honestly believe the continual degradation of tech news has been made much worse by fake or sensationalized, exaggerated “news” and clickbait “leak” sites like wccftech.

I continue to ask: What constructive result comes from complaining with no chance of getting what is complained about? If I complain to McDonalds they are not going to make me something special just for me. How can that be expected from even bigger companies? If unhappy, why not buy from the competitor? I’m sure Intel would love people to buy their Core X series and Xeon W platform.
 

111alan

Active Member
Mar 11, 2019
208
47
28
Haerbing Institution of Technology
Ok, then let’s third party firmware mod our TRX40 boards to support Threadripper 20k series which will be released in year 2035. Then use the sTRX4 to zWXZ16 socket adapter to adapt the socket. Problem solved. No more issues here. /s

How does third party firmware prove anything? If anything it proves Intel artificially breaks support - after all they barely improved CPU and I/O side from 2nd to 5th gen, then again from 6th to 10th gen. Whereas it can be inferred from technical releases that AMD socket change from sTR4 to sTRX4 was due to physical and electrical changes to support PCIe 4.

Where is AMD promising support? In the Reddit thread? Then the thread was picked up by wccftech before spreading elsewhere? If anyone needs reminding, Reddit is NOT a place where corporations make formal announcements. They do such things in press releases. AMD hadn’t said anything anywhere else. I have read the thread and re-read it again. The wording is not explicit in what some people may believe it to be. I honestly believe the continual degradation of tech news has been made much worse by fake or sensationalized, exaggerated “news” and clickbait “leak” sites like wccftech.

I continue to ask: What constructive result comes from complaining with no chance of getting what is complained about? If I complain to McDonalds they are not going to make me something special just for me. How can that be expected from even bigger companies? If unhappy, why not buy from the competitor? I’m sure Intel would love people to buy their Core X series and Xeon W platform.
Actually, it's a little more complexed than that. I was in the team which developed this LGA1151 crack (I only joined the making and integrating E5v3's turbo crack, but we discussed a lot about 1151 project). I also worked on enabling 8 series motherboards' support to 5th gen CPU. I can say that, if intel absolutely doesn't want you to put a 1151R2 CPU on an R1 board, there are more than one way to shut down any possibility for a BIOS mod.

I think it's some motherboard vendors who want no backward compatibility. It's like, 865 chipset can support quad core Kentsfield and Yorkfield, but only a few vendors actually let it happen.

When it comes to 4th and 5th gen core it's a different story. Intel added F-IVR power regulators into the CPU for 4th gen, drastically changing the motherboard design and CPU voltage, thus making backward compatibility unfeasible. I think this is the time when everyone finally got use to the tradition of, one money grab for every two gens.
 

RageBone

Active Member
Jul 11, 2017
552
138
43
ok, i assume you want to prove that Intel does not obviously slows down AMD hardware, right ?
Why though?
I mean, its kinda off topic?
I don't care if you prove that or don't.
I'm not even sure how someone can prove a general thing like that.
I mean, every comparison you take might indeed be interesting to make and show that there isn't a obvious slow down but that still doesn't prove that there aren't other applications and where there is.
I guess that is the reason why it is good that "innocent unless proven guilty" is the default.

Right, where we are here, how did AMD engineer X399 and sTRX40 to be obsolete the moment they got published?
I think that was your one claim from the beginning and that would actually be on topic for once.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ReturnedSword

111alan

Active Member
Mar 11, 2019
208
47
28
Haerbing Institution of Technology
ok, i assume you want to prove that Intel does not obviously slows down AMD hardware, right ?
Why though?
I mean, its kinda off topic?
I don't care if you prove that or don't.
I'm not even sure how someone can prove a general thing like that.
I mean, every comparison you take might indeed be interesting to make and show that there isn't a obvious slow down but that still doesn't prove that there aren't other applications and where there is.
I guess that is the reason why it is good that "innocent unless proven guilty" is the default.

Right, where we are here, how did AMD engineer X399 and sTRX40 to be obsolete the moment they got published?
I think that was your one claim from the beginning and that would actually be on topic for once.
No, I'm just fulfilling that promise, not to prove anything.
innocent unless proven guilty
Yes, I've already done the explaining part. Someone thinks Intel's guilty, and I posted evidence that suggests it's innocent now, aka not proven guilty. It's all simple until someone's here to blame me of things I didn't do, with his unproven point of view.

Let's see who was driving the conversation off topic here. Isn't it the one who's going all out to persuade others into believing I'm cheery picking everything and misleading everyone, while refusing to provide any good proof to back himself up of if there's any at all?

Other than that part, I'm just saying that people should not believe in those views like "AMD is the most heavenly, moral-correct company in the industry", "Everything AMD did was right" or "AMD is far superior to its competition in every way", which have been circulating the internet in the past few years. I don't think these are off topic.

Edit: to make it simple (from my point of view)
Me: explained the ideas I mentioned, with some simple proof.
Others: demanded more explanation.
Me: provided more proof and pointed out what they didn't see or got wrong.
Others: you're cheating.
Me: explained even more, with tests.
Others: you went off topic.
Me: ?
Then others: You mean intel is absolutely better
Me: ???

Yeah being rational is hard, I see that. It's either intel or AMD.
 
Last edited:

tinfoil3d

QSFP28
May 11, 2020
547
191
43
Japan
people are free to believe whatever bs they want, actually. im not a fan of either manufacturer and would simply choose whatever suits the needs the most and do ROI faster
 

RageBone

Active Member
Jul 11, 2017
552
138
43
right, ok.

How are x399 and trx40 platforms designed to be obsolete from the get go?

EDIT:
My viewpoint:

You: Throws around accusations, opinions theories and "facts" or "proof".

Others and me: Something is fishy here, are you sure about that?

You: YES, more proof and pointed out what they didn't see or got wrong.

Others like me: Some things are still fishy and that (something) seems close to what you accuse someone of.
Whats with X y and Z? Why did you Benchmark B with C settings?
Questions ...

You: Here is more "proof" on something (un? tangentially?) related that shows i'm right.

Others: this is getting out of hand and off topic.
You are "proving" INTELs innocence in a AMD Bashing thread and it derailed there from you accusing AMD of all things bad under sun.
That has a certain taste to it.

To be fair, i'm not sure if i'm to stupid to understand some of your answers but i am at least left with the impression that there are questions left you have never responded on directly.
The primary one that i started with in this thread is the one above the edit.
I'm not sure if that is due to the "keeping face" cultural thing or if i just missed it.
If it is the latter, well, please repeat it again and sorry for the inconvenience.
 
Last edited: