AMD making a fool of Threadripper customers - AGAIN?

111alan

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So, i don't think that is how any of that works.
Especially proving something does not work and should no work like that!

Would you agree that you are a proven Intel Shill because i perceived you as such?
Does it become proof when you write a thing X times and i perceive you as such Y times?

I hope and think not!

Proof would start with witness testimony of people being payed and doing the deed.
Or bills showing the payments.

A related issue is the location of your mentioned issues with for example Chiphell.

Every time you bring them up, it makes me think you misunderstood or misconstrued something i or others said as a Attack on you in the way you accuse those Chiphell people off.

Which appears to be wrong.

Strictly hypothetically speaking:
If I were to say that AMD makes the Best CPUs!
You might disagree.
You might ask me why i think that.
When i then Say that I don't want to be silenced and that i got silenced by bullies earlier,
how does that make me seem?

Because that is how you appear to me right now.

It doesn't get better when i would then claim that it wasn't you and that it was some other place on the web.
And it gets worse if i were to keep doing that instead of answering your god damn questions.

Now to a more real "doing my own benchmarks" part of the topic.
You are hopefully aware that Benchmarking is very hard, at least propper benchmarking!
Why is that?
Well, each Vendor does things differently.
Bioses often apply overclocks on default to make the manufracturer and the board look better.
Just because you have set it to use JEDEC or XMP settings, it does not mean that ALL the Timings, especially the weirder ones? Second, third?
are actually the same and those can have an effect.
Another obvious issue are Powerlimits and Boosts that aren't as sure to apply as one thinks.

One Example i can give of my own is with a Rome 64C ES.
It does about 6K CB20 points.
Considering a 7401P 24C Naples does more then 7K points, that is pretty bad.
So i could now scream and shout how shit Rome CPUs are.
I am not doing that.
Why?

Because it should be obvious that there are issues with my test-setup.

The CPU has a Turbo of 2Ghz and a baseclock of 1.4Ghz on all cores.
It has no issues doing both in idle and few core loads.
The moment all cores are loaded, core clock drops to 400mhz.

So one could argue that at 400mhz, 6K CB20 points are actually not bad.
Powerusage is reported at about 80W total and the last time i looked,
i noticed the core temperature on one or more cores was at 90°C and more.
The rest were fine at like 40°C.

A reasonable question from you might be if i were running it without a cooler.
I sadly did, with a TR NHu12, but that would have been a funny way to massacre the performance.
Thinking about this now, maybe its bad TIM on a chiplet.
Or a Power and temperature reporting issue.
I will have to investigate that further.

Still, there is valid criticism to be had that my specific CPU and setup isn't behaving as it should.
Using that to spout intels superiority in server hardware, would not speak well for my mental faculties and character.
It might still be my valid opinion, but not Truth or Facts.

EDIT: CB23 to 20, my mistake.
Thinking about it, 6K CB20 Points at 80W isn't that bad either, right?
Ok, naa its shit. a 5700G does that too and its a 65W part.
What are you talking about?

You're saying that, by testing at down-clocked conditions, with limitations that prevents the hardware from working correctly, your opinion will still be valid?

Yes, benchmarking is hard, but it's toughness is in it's depth, or its methology, it's analytics, not because it's hard to decide whether should we use some non-stock or non-reasonable weird settings that will do good to no one, or should we compare two things in different test conditions. Tests are hard because it needs to reflect real use cases, not because we need to concider when to cheat.

Every time you bring them up, it makes me think you misunderstood or misconstrued something i or others said as a Attack on you in the way you accuse those Chiphell people off.

Which appears to be wrong.
If I need to post something like a transaction record between Chiphell and AMD, I don't have any. It's not like they'll just randomly post it up on the internet anyway.

But their behavior is absolutely the same with other payed speech controllers and commenters. 99% certain is still not 100%, but they have intentions, deeds, public effects and past records, enough for any court to deem them guilty of these actions in collusion with AMD. And why do you seem to be mad about this, without talking about any counter proof?

Perhaps even if I managed to get that very evidence to make it 100%, you opinion will still not change. Because I'm still talking negatively, and this somehow makes you think I'm not being objective.



By the way, I never said any brand is absolutely better. I have stressed application-based product selection multiple times, and I didn't even posted much of the test results to completely prove anything is better than anything yet. But what I know is that, Intel has never done such shitty things, for now.
 
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stanos4

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Adding to unanswered remarks of others, it would be good if you clarified also following:

1) what do you want to show by your graphs "Relative performance", "GHz-Power Table", "Freq-voltage matrix"

2) assuming the answer to question (1) is "power efficiency":
2.1) how do you define "power efficiency"
2.2) why did you pick 4.0GHz as your benchmarking frequency
2.3) what is contained in the power column of your graphs - is it only CPU package power, or also your screen, toilet, lighting?

3) what exact part do you compare "your results" to in the techpowerup's (t.p.u) results, when you claim this: "...expectation and almost the same as Techpowerup'..."

When you answer at least these points, then, depending on your answer you can start answering these:

2.2.1) why not to pick 4.1GHz, where as your "GHz-Power Table" graph shows, 11700K and 5800X are much closer to each other than for 4GHz - eye-balling from your graph, difference here seems to be smaller by at least factor 2 than for 4GHz. This suggests that "power efficiency" will be improved in favor of 5800X

2.3.1) how do you explain the fact that you measure almost 180W for 3700X whereas techpowerup measures 146W on the whole system at presumably the same 4.4GHz frequency?

3.1) in conclusions of t.p.u. I see that amd is being advised as cpu of choice in the given category for practically all situations. They also emphasize, that the differences to amd's presented results may be due to testing methodology and used components (e.g. they use slower 3200MT/s RAM vs 3600MT/s amd used). So then, how do statements you present here, that are in direction of "intel is at least as good as amd", fall in line of t.p.u. conclusions? Do we read different English?

4) bonus question - what do you consider "significant", how do you compare 2 values to be significantly different, and how do you then report the difference between the 2 numbers: bcs if I measure 2 times the same test for 2 different products, I get 4 measured values - I can give you at least 4-5 reasonable ways on how to compare results.

when you reflect on so far unanswered and these question, then people maybe start to think about other claims you make and how the examples and claims are supposed to support the accusations made against company X, or how this is relevant for the topic we're in.
 
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111alan

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Adding to unanswered remarks of others, it would be good if you clarified also following:

1) what do you want to show by your graphs "Relative performance", "GHz-Power Table", "Freq-voltage matrix"

2) assuming the answer to question (1) is "power efficiency":
2.1) how do you define "power efficiency"
2.2) why did you pick 4.0GHz as your benchmarking frequency
2.3) what is contained in the power column of your graphs - is it only CPU package power, or also your screen, toilet, lighting?

3) what exact part do you compare "your results" to in the techpowerup's (t.p.u) results, when you claim this: "...expectation and almost the same as Techpowerup'..."

When you answer at least these points, then, depending on your answer you can start answering these:

2.2.1) why not to pick 4.1GHz, where as your "GHz-Power Table" graph shows, 11700K and 5800X are much closer to each other than for 4GHz - eye-balling from your graph, difference here seems to be smaller by at least factor 2 than for 4GHz. This suggests that "power efficiency" will be improved in favor of 5800X

2.3.1) how do you explain the fact that you measure almost 180W for 3700X whereas techpowerup measures 146W on the whole system at presumably the same 4.4GHz frequency?

3.1) in conclusions of t.p.u. I see that amd is being advised as cpu of choice in the given category for practically all situations. They also emphasize, that the differences to amd's presented results may be due to testing methodology and used components (e.g. they use slower 3200MT/s RAM vs 3600MT/s amd used). So then, how do statements you present here, that are in direction of "intel is at least as good as amd", fall in line of t.p.u. conclusions? Do we read different English?

4) bonus question - what do you consider "significant", how do you compare 2 values to be significantly different, and how do you then report the difference between the 2 numbers: bcs if I measure 2 times the same test for 2 different products, I get 4 measured values - I can give you at least 4-5 reasonable ways on how to compare results.

when you reflect on so far unanswered and these question, then people maybe start to think about other claims you make and how the examples and claims are supposed to support the accusations made against company X, or how this is relevant for the topic we're in.
1. To show and oppose the flawed point of"AMD with it's 7nm process will have much better power efficiency than Intel".

2.1 P=CxFxV^2. Power efficiency should be compared between parts with similiar frequency/performance. When you increase the frequency to get that extra perf, the efficiency will always drop, thus making the comparison unfair, and more about choice than product design/quality itself.
2.2 Because every CPU tested can run at that frequency, and it's close enough to the stock frequency. Also I remember seeing some other professional analyser using this 4.0GHz for IPC measurement as well. May not be the absolute best but it gets the job done.
2.3 Package power, with hardware calibration by measuring the current of CPU 8P, as I've already said.

3. Also as I said before, the subjects tested are different, but conclusion are the same. For the 8C specification I tested, Zen3 still can't beat SKL in gaming, but it does better in production applications.

2.2.1 I tested every frequency point from 16x to stock turbo. I never calculated the accurate "efficiency per application", and I would not suggest people to do this either. It's meaningless, nobody will down clock a cpu just for that tiny bit of efficiency.

And why should I specifically choose a point that is most favorable to AMD.

2.3.1 In their 5800X cinebench stress test they got a 175w at stock. reasonable.
Sorry I answered the wrong one. 3700x at stock boosts to about 4-4.1GHz all core, not 4.4GHz. This number is also reasonable. Not all 3700X can get up to 4.4GHz even when overclocking.
1642343831094.png

Their P95 tests seems to be lower than normal. perhaps they were using a larger FFT number. As long as they test at the same condition it's fair.

As for why 10700K takes much more power than 9900K, I think it has to do with their review sample motherboard.

3.1 Don't you know to use smooth words? If I'm writing a formal review, I will not directly say somebody is cheating either.

I constructed a real-life environment, did my best to choose the testing method that's the closest to to the real use cases. I think TPU considered these too. Then some propaganda people jump out, claiming that their product only uses half the power I tested, while the competitor uses even more power.

But I can't find any valid methology to prove their test, and I never saw any. But I saw many people comparing the power consumptions between intel CPUs running on AVX512 and AMD CPUs running on AVX2 or even non-avx. In that case it's impossible to see them as clearly fake.

But I'll still handle the situation just like TPU, to avoid any unnecessary problem.

And sorry, I drew my conclusions from their test results directly, I never read their recommendations.

4. "Significant" is decided by both how people perceive the difference in real life, and the "error bound".

For example, during my power consumption test the max-min deviation is less than 1W(or less than 2%). Then a 20W difference is significant. But in 3A gaming, the error range is much larger(±5%), so below 144FPS, I take the difference of 5% as "notable", and 10% "significant". But if it comes to like 300 or 500 FPS, I don't think 10% or even 20% matters.

Edit:
when you reflect on so far unanswered and these question, then people maybe start to think about other claims you make and how the examples and claims are supposed to support the accusations made against company X, or how this is relevant for the topic we're in.
Yes, I AM against that company, to be specific,I AM agsinst their actions I mentioned that created rumors, spreaded false informations, and challenged the freedom of speech.

Now I've answered everything you asked. If you have any other attitute, or have anything else to ask, just say it. Getting proof and real test data are things I couldn't worry less about, I really have a lot of them.

What I'm worrying about is the people who can't be reasoned with. They agree with the company no matter what it does. They indirectly contribute to the shitty things that company do to us.
 
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Ojref1

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Regardless, whatever your metrics are, this does not will 5000 series TRX40 socket Threadrippers into existence. I have 12 workstations that are used for engineering and programming purposes that now, based on insider information, have no upgrade path after one single generation of CPUs. This is despite numerous promises from AMD that this wouldn't be the case. It represents a not insignificant investment on my part that will likely be devalued. It's quite unacceptable behavior from AMD considering how many years of inferior products they shipped. Intel's already announced HEDT processors for Alder lake and generations forward, so I suppose we'll see what happens in a few more years. If they don't release at least one more generation for TRX40, I'm done with them on the HEDT/Workstation side for sure.
 

NablaSquaredG

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Aug 17, 2020
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I had exactly the same situation with X399 and now with TRX40 again (I only invested in TRX40 because I believed AMDs promises)...
 

NablaSquaredG

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AMD at least have long-living socket AM4.
That's nice and all, but my machines are TRX40 so that's not helpful.

Is Intel any better? How many sockets changed in Core i series?
1. Everybody knows that Intel changes sockets nearly every generation and they haven't made any promises that they wouldn't
2. Look at LGA3647 - You could at least have Skylake and Cascade Lake on the same motherboards. That's 2 generations. That's more than 1 (TRX40) and more than 1.5 (X399)

P.S Intel's HEDT was compatible for 3 generations (LGA2066 / X299), or rather 2.5 gens to be fair
 
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111alan

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Regardless, whatever your metrics are, this does not will 5000 series TRX40 socket Threadrippers into existence. I have 12 workstations that are used for engineering and programming purposes that now, based on insider information, have no upgrade path after one single generation of CPUs. This is despite numerous promises from AMD that this wouldn't be the case. It represents a not insignificant investment on my part that will likely be devalued. It's quite unacceptable behavior from AMD considering how many years of inferior products they shipped. Intel's already announced HEDT processors for Alder lake and generations forward, so I suppose we'll see what happens in a few more years. If they don't release at least one more generation for TRX40, I'm done with them on the HEDT/Workstation side for sure.
That's why people should know and act on the truth, that AMD is even more money driven than intel, even willing to annihilate critical thinking and create a whole new religion for a bit of profit. If everyone is rational, the competition will be far more beneficial to all of us.

I always suggest serious performance user to get server platform. They are cheaper if you can accept tray CPUs, have more balanced design, and also last longer in term of upgradability.
 

alex_stief

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If I may interject here, I think some ppl may be overlooking something:
You don't necessarily have to pay people these days to spout lies and half-truths on the internet. You don't even have to pay them to shill for a specific company. So I would be rather reluctant to point fingers at fanbois shouting "paid shill". The vast majority of them do it without getting paid, or being explicitly told to do so.
 

msg7086

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They are cheaper if you can accept tray CPUs
Not everyone buys a computer from taobao.

Let's be honest. Lots of cheap server CPUs in China are e-wastes from US, and lots of those are carried into China through illegal route. So you are suggesting that serious performance user should just buy illegally sold CPUs from China?
 
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111alan

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Not everyone buys a computer from taobao.

Let's be honest. Lots of cheap server CPUs in China are e-wastes from US, and lots of those are carried into China through illegal route. So you are suggesting that serious performance user should just buy illegally sold CPUs from China?
I think most of them are legal, they usually have customs declaration and can provide government-approved invoice if needed. These are mostly left-overs from OEM vendors, but they have enough numbers and they have performance, what else do we diy users need.
 
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111alan

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Maybe I'm wasting time talking to someone saying people who have different opinion than you are paid. Maybe you should educate yourself about x265 in the first place, that is --

The major core part of x265 is written in hand optimized assembly. The most expensive part is not written in C++. They are written in ASM and are compiled by YASM/NASM. There shouldn't be huge performance difference anyway.

Disclaimer: I was a contributor of x265 and I'm maintaining a modded x265 fork.

EDIT:

I feel like I didn't phrase it clearly so I'm adding this. I'm NOT saying Intel is to be blamed here, however it's pretty easy to make mistakes when picking examples. The example you told was not a good one because even though it seems legit, it's actually meaningless. A professional user can easily point out your mistake, and then accuse you for collecting false evidence for the purpose of advertising for Intel, even though it could be an honest mistake. In people's eyes, it seems like you are the one who got paid.
Oh btw I just found the binary I compiled for the comparison. On the left is the x265 compiled with AVX2 and on the right is with AVX512. I ran each of them 5 times. Here is the ~5% difference I mentioned. It's only about 1-1.4s for 30+s(probably because I'm using icelake) but it's well over error range.
16.jpg

Just to say, I trust that you are professional in this area, but do not roast someone before doing the research, or you may have mislead that 3 person;)
 

ReturnedSword

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We all read English the same. I think the problem is here societal norms are moving into the discussion, therefore there will be misunderstandings.


Opinions becomes real when there is proof. And there are really a lot of them.

Now let's prove my point, with my own experience. I don't really like to talk about it, it makes me tired just by looking at these proofs, but something has to be shown.
This isn’t how proof works though. For something to move from observations to proof, it needs to be able to follow the same test/benchmark, with valid control setup, and needs to be able to be replicated consistently. Otherwise it’s just opinion.

There are multiple ways to tell a fan from a payed story teller. Let's analyze these in several ways.

1. Are they aiming at silencing people
I'm not talking about using sharp words, I'm talking about "physically" silencing the opposing side, no matter who they are.

For example, these people manage to find almost all my posts and replies and negatively rate them. It's not just about hate, this forum will stop you from posting when your points are less than 100.

But I've posted several reviews before which earned me hundreds of thousands of views and a lot of points, so they failed.
View attachment 21179

But some others are not that lucky. Like this one.

And if they can't do it this way? If their side is exposed to be biased? Lock the post then.

And search their posts, do you see these people doing this when there are no certain brand involved? Perhaps never. Yeah just remove those people so nobody will talk bad.

Perhaps I'm not banned just because of my past contributions to this forum.
Have you considered that instead of two opposing sides of “proof,” what actually happened in your CH postings was a fanboy war instead? As in both Intel and AMD fanboys trying to artificially influence their biased views.

2. Do they use a same, organized set of pattern of doing things

Aside from the situation in the first point, here are other patterns I noticed.
①Making up misleading opinions that could convince the crowd, then spam them everywhere.

Things like "Intel will double the price if AMD didn't involve""Intel will forever stuck at 4 core(let's not look at its server lineup)""AMD's next flagship will have 5GHz, 16cores and a price of 2000CNY(before zen3 of course)""AMD has much lower power usage(without mentioning any other conditions)"

Even something like"Intel can't compete any more""Intel will bankrupt".

Of course someone with the most basic knowledges will know these are wrong, but these sounds pretty legit, tbh, expecially when combined with fake data.
This sounds like fanboys. Why do they have to be paid? It’s easy enough to get fanboys to post nonsense without paying them anything, because that’s what fanboys do.


②Personal attacks without a point.

Fans will usually state the reasons behind their opinion, before any kind of personal attack if there are. But these people always start with personal attacks,never talk about any real proof. For example, there are a lot of them in this post. They don't even have the knowledge to understand the technical detail I talked about, but they always manage to make thing up for personal attacks.

BTW they're obviously violating almost every single forum rule there. So I told that mod in question.

Then about that mod I mentioned, he basically said"I don't understand either, but you're wrong. You have no logic, but I can't explain why"
View attachment 21176
There was also a fanboy there, but when I posted the whole study he agreed with me. You can compare between those people.

And people in NGA talked about this too, also coming with silencing.
View attachment 21177

Note that these are basically the only living computer hardware related forums in China that isn't as shallow as Tieba.

There are of course many other scenarios, including my friends who did the testing themselves. They all get their own share of reasonless internet violence, even by not using AMD cpus when testing SSDs.

Yes, some people on the internet may be rude because they can hide behind a screen. But consider that by keep on trying to talk to them only makes them happy, and they will continue trolling you. Why not ignore them?

I also don’t understand the relevance of bringing up Chinese language forums, because due to cultural reasons Chinese and other language forums are totally different. For example being an English forum doesn’t mean we discuss from an American viewpoint as English is a lingua franca. Many people use English to interact with people from other countries even if the cultural perspective is different. It’s not a situation where in a Chinese forum the users are probably Chinese nationals as well. But you may have noticed, in English forums we usually don’t have the type of problem you’re highlighting from CH or other Chinese forums.

④They come in groups and agree with eachother's point, to create a momentum.

Usually start when the previous methods have failed. Don't think this needs an explaination, if you want one, look at the post I referenced above.

You can argue that each single point doesn't definately prove these are 100% payed activities, but together, they really forms a pattern that you can almost predict what they will do next.

3. Do they have past records of payed speech control

A lot. There is a period when Chiphell decided to ban anyone who talk about Yeston and Gigabyte before. They promotes ASUS like crazy. As mentioned before PCEVA and PC426 both have exposed them before. Excavating articles from several years ago is not easy, but I probably will do this, if this topic continues. Just say this is what every veteran PC player know here.

In fact, payed commenters and payed speech control is very common in China. These people was usually called"5-dime""sea navy" here, suggesting their cheap recruitment fee and the massive numbers of posts and replies they made. How cheap? Well even some food companies and mobile phone companies can afford some.

As for payed reviewers, 1500CNY can buy you a very good review article commission. I also happen to have a friend doing this kind of work(but he is not being biased as far as I know). And you can calculate how many well known reviewers they need to buy.
View attachment 21178

If Chiphell is doing payed speech control, who's paying them? Think you understand.
We cannot say that because A exists, and I saw B, therefore, it must be connected. You must understand that the Chinese market is quite self-contained. Without proof of anything, then it's still just an opinion, including others possibly being paid shills.

We also don't really operate this way in the English speaking world. We are usually open minded to discussion, but we demand proof, and by proof it means it must be able to be replicated. The more times it was able to be replicated, then we can build consensus. Showing random graphs looks very nice but sadly that's not proof, especially when it doesn't really correlate with anything, even the original argument.

Just say that you don't know China. I hope I don't have to either.
This hurts my feelings a bit :) I have lived and worked in HK, Macau, and China previously, so I understand Chinese culture and thinking quite a bit. I'm also Huaren.

I'm not saying that the entire Chiphell forum is bad, I'm just aiming at the mod in power who is doing this, as well as the collaborators. I take full responsibility for everything I said, and have everything backed up both in the format of photos and offline pages. If it comes to legal affairs, I'm happy to participate.

Think I've explained enough. If there are other questions about the posts I referenced, you can tell me. Just notice that, don't take what people are saying as is. My part is all started with a simple open box plus discussion post.
Honestly, what is even the point of proving "this" or "that?" That's why I stay off Chinese language forums. Too much trying to prove something, or doing whataboutism to try to show their point even though whataboutism has nothing to do with the original discussion.

How about we just have an open discussion. We may show our findings, but if others challenge it we need to review our findings according to others critiques of the findings. Truth always proves itself without needing to write entire fantasy novels back and forth like on CH discussions.
 
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msg7086

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Oh btw I just found the binary I compiled for the comparison. On the left is the x265 compiled with AVX2 and on the right is with AVX512. I ran each of them 5 times. Here is the ~5% difference I mentioned. It's only about 1-1.4s for 30+s(probably because I'm using icelake) but it's well over error range.
View attachment 21194

Just to say, I trust that you are professional in this area, but do not roast someone before doing the research, or you may have mislead that 3 person;)
Interesting. Can you please also test both cases with runtime AVX512 asm off?
 

ReturnedSword

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I have gone back and found the original post on Reddit regarding "long term support." It is from November 7, 2019, or over 2 years ago. I believe this was the one and only time AMD made a public comment about this matter. Going over the comment again, it is a standard corporate press release style post. It is intentionally vague. Surprise! Intel, and every other corporation speaks in the same way for press releases.

In the meantime, we also have something that happened -- a pandemic, which is still on-going. I have been waiting for some items and parts to be available from Computex 2019 and CES 2020, and that are still not yet released. AMD is a much smaller company than Intel, and it is obvious and well-known they are having silicon constraints, as well as packaging constraints over the last 2 years. Like I said, I work in the corporate/enterprise and if I'm not able to get stuff for big projects, what is the priority for lower profit end users?

Obviously AMD has been focusing on DC and therefore EPYC. Then second to that, their semi-custom business. If release schedules and supply of leftover capacity, meaning consumer desktop parts are delayed, I find it unbelievable that some here think that the very niche and very few sales "HEDT" will and should have absolute highest priority.

AMD never confirmed that TRX40 will have support truncated, AFAIK. All they did recently was announce WRX80 would be compatible with Zen 3 based TR Pro. Come on, let's not jump the gun here.

AMD being accused on being a profit hungry company is laughable tbh. They are a for-profit entity, not a charity. Also laughable is that the company that just a few years ago was on the edge of bankruptcy, and is essentially a fabless chip design company compared to the principle rival, somehow has the money and the power to influence the market. No, if anyone has worked in the enterprise world, companies are starting to take a second look at AMD based on their platforms merits rather than any secret payments or control. AMD until recently under the current leadership, did not have a history of making good market choices. Let's have it with the history of a dozen plus x86 manufacturers all dying over the years due to the crushing "PR" money "donated" by Intel over the 1990s and 2000s.

My question still stands: If people are unhappy with AMD, why not buy the competitor's products? That's what I would do if I'm unhappy with a product. Problem solved. Surely, Intel will deliver multi-generational support to a niche market (If anyone has forgotten, Intel invented HEDT to salvage imperfect Xeons, and because they refused to increase consumer CPU core count for nearly a decade).

That being said, most of my homelab and a good number of my workstations are Intel :) Buy what works for the job at hand, within the budget you have. Everyone will be much happier that way.
 

msg7086

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My question still stands: If people are unhappy with AMD, why not buy the competitor's products? That's what I would do if I'm unhappy with a product. Problem solved.
Speaking of that, my company seemed to have bought tons of EPYC based servers for our cloud infra in the past few years. I hope they are not accused as AMD fanboys :cool:.
 
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ReturnedSword

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Speaking of that, my company seemed to have bought tons of EPYC based servers for our cloud infra in the past few years. I hope they are not accused as AMD fanboys :cool:.
No it’s because the corporate buyers are being paid by AMD since Intel is becoming honest nowadays.;)

EPYC just offers the node density and TCO that can no longer be ignored even to the point that special private discounts on Scalable Platinum are no longer as relevant.
 
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111alan

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Mar 11, 2019
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Haerbing Institution of Technology
I have gone back and found the original post on Reddit regarding "long term support." It is from November 7, 2019, or over 2 years ago. I believe this was the one and only time AMD made a public comment about this matter. Going over the comment again, it is a standard corporate press release style post. It is intentionally vague. Surprise! Intel, and every other corporation speaks in the same way for press releases.

In the meantime, we also have something that happened -- a pandemic, which is still on-going. I have been waiting for some items and parts to be available from Computex 2019 and CES 2020, and that are still not yet released. AMD is a much smaller company than Intel, and it is obvious and well-known they are having silicon constraints, as well as packaging constraints over the last 2 years. Like I said, I work in the corporate/enterprise and if I'm not able to get stuff for big projects, what is the priority for lower profit end users?

Obviously AMD has been focusing on DC and therefore EPYC. Then second to that, their semi-custom business. If release schedules and supply of leftover capacity, meaning consumer desktop parts are delayed, I find it unbelievable that some here think that the very niche and very few sales "HEDT" will and should have absolute highest priority.

AMD never confirmed that TRX40 will have support truncated, AFAIK. All they did recently was announce WRX80 would be compatible with Zen 3 based TR Pro. Come on, let's not jump the gun here.

AMD being accused on being a profit hungry company is laughable tbh. They are a for-profit entity, not a charity. Also laughable is that the company that just a few years ago was on the edge of bankruptcy, and is essentially a fabless chip design company compared to the principle rival, somehow has the money and the power to influence the market. No, if anyone has worked in the enterprise world, companies are starting to take a second look at AMD based on their platforms merits rather than any secret payments or control. AMD until recently under the current leadership, did not have a history of making good market choices. Let's have it with the history of a dozen plus x86 manufacturers all dying over the years due to the crushing "PR" money "donated" by Intel over the 1990s and 2000s.

My question still stands: If people are unhappy with AMD, why not buy the competitor's products? That's what I would do if I'm unhappy with a product. Problem solved. Surely, Intel will deliver multi-generational support to a niche market (If anyone has forgotten, Intel invented HEDT to salvage imperfect Xeons, and because they refused to increase consumer CPU core count for nearly a decade).

That being said, most of my homelab and a good number of my workstations are Intel :) Buy what works for the job at hand, within the budget you have. Everyone will be much happier that way.
Yeah why don't people just buy their favored product? Selecting product based on own preferences is reasonable all and well, until you start to notice, why people prefer one thing to another, how does they make the decision?

People usually can't test everything themselves. So their decision is usually based on other's tests, reviews, datasheets or simply other's opinion. Then when someone start to pour large amounts of fake data and unreasonably biased opinions into the public media, and start attacking anyone who disagrees, it becomes a problem.

If 3 people start to convey the same idea, the listener may begin to change his mind, although the idea they tried to convey may be completely false and ridiculous. Such is human nature.
 
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