12gen N-series Nas motherboard (topton, cwwk, ... )

[Elber]

So I messaged the chat, and they seem to think that it's the memory also. First said that it was testing the memory, but then suggested I buy some memory from them (good/bad idea? I can't even find any memory on their site). I booted it an hour ago and left it and it still hasn't done anything worthwhile so if it is memory testing then it's... slow

I went 32GB/5600 since it was the best value stick available, and processor memory limits tend to be quite flexbile. Just on this thread, Chripo got it running with 48GB/5600. Maybe you need to boot into BIOS at least once, though..?

Though they don't specify what the "dependent on memory type" means intel claim that 16GB is max for the N100. But as you say, it's proven to work with 32GB.

I'd be curious to know how it goes with your board, though. I may just buy a stick of 4800MT to test, as much as I loathe to buy a "useless" stick of RAM

 

[bugmenot]

Thats why when i buy my board from bkhd i ordered ram also so that i dont have compability problem

 

[chripo]

[...]
The screen and HDMI cable both work in another device, so it's probably not those.
[...]
After a boot, it will beep once (a long-ish beep, about 0.5-1s), the CPU fan will be on full(?) power. After approx 15s, the fan will spin down to a silent speed and the keyboard LEDs turn on. Then it just sits there. It's been like this for around 20 mins now, using a constant 26W, not sure if that means anything though.
[...]
If someone has an actual manual (or just a list of beep codes) to hand that would be grand.

I seem to remember having problems with the HDMI port right after assembling my CWWK NAS system and booting it up for the first couple of times (remember: just be patient, RAM training might take several minutes!). I then connected my monitor via DisplayPort (which surprisingly got a signal), booted into the BIOS and loaded the default settings. To test the hardware, I installed Ubuntu and Windows one after the other on an SSD and had already mentally written off the HDMI port as "defective". But I don't know what and when, a few days later I tested the HDMI port again and it works fine since then.

By the way, the boot behavior of your board sounds pretty normal to me. If the keyboard lights up, I think the board should be okay.

And yes, a manual would be very desirable, but I somehow doubt we will get one from CWWK in the foreseeable future.

The stick I have is this one Crucial 32GB DDR5-5600 SODIMM | CT32G56C46S5 | Crucial.com

Chripo mentioned earlier on this thread (page 2) that he managed to get the Crucial 48GB module working (I almost went with that model, actually, but decided to cheap out). Maybe the 5600MT is the issue?

Yes, the CWWK board seems to be a bit picky about RAM sticks, but since your stick is from the same product line as mine, I doubt it will not work.

 

[antimattr]

First said that it was testing the memory, but then suggested I buy some memory from them (good/bad idea? I can't even find any memory on their site).

IIRC in one of the YouTube videos STH did buy RAM from them as included in one of their kits and it was fine. Obviously it was a Chinese brand not really known in the west but it worked and tested okay.

As chripo mentioned, I'd try DisplayPort first though.

 

[antimattr]

And yes, a manual would be very desirable, but I somehow doubt we will get one from CWWK in the foreseeable future.

Honestly more often than not I feel like this forum becomes the manual.

 

[SunnyCloudy]

Honestly more often than not I feel like this forum becomes the manual.

poor us westerners, leaving us to figure it out on our own

 

[antimattr]

poor us westerners, leaving us to figure it out on our own

The sad and interesting thing about that is that I growingly prefer it to dealing with some of the big manufacturers. Usually with them you end up in customer support purgatory and never get to talk to an engineer. In our case we have forums like this one where people are very knowledgable, pretty unrestricted access to hardware, the ability to talk to the people actually making the hardware (while still dealing with some language barrier issues), and novel designs. It's more of a challenge at times but it's also more fun.

For the first time ever a few years ago I had to buy a pre-built PC from a popular brand name company just to get my hands on a reasonably priced GPU to do some video encoding work. Everything is painfully locked down. Even with a totally new SSD and a clean install of Windows direct from Microsoft the OEMs build in automatic installs into the firmware to control the user experience. I have learned there is nothing I can do about that, it's forced. I paid for this computer and have no control over it.

Long story short, I'll take the inconveniences of the AliExpress PCs over what most of the PC industry has become.

 

[SunnyCloudy]

I couldn't be bothered to wait any longer for the N305 CWWK board to arrive in aliexpress stock and then on top of that have the issues you guys are having here with it... the compromises of the limited PCIe lanes and the jankiness of it all.

I already have

• the Jonsbo N2 White case
• the HDPLEX 250W GaN power supply
• the Noctua NH-L12 Ghost S1 Edition cpu cooler
• 2x Samsung 970 EVO 250GB PCIe x4 m.2 SSDs (repurposed, from my old PCs)
• 5x WD Red Plus 6TB (new, model no WD60EFPX, on CMR)

So I just ordered these parts

• the Intel i5-14500T released this Q1'24 (couldn't find the 14600T anywhere in stock...)
• the ASRock Z790M-ITX WiFi board (wish it had ECC memory support, but whatever)
• some 4800 MT/s 64gb ddr5 ram for the zfs cache (rgb lol, it was on sale 23% off)
• the ASM1166 PCIe 3.0 by 4 SATA 6 Port Expansion Card
• this cute LGA 1700 cpu frame (I have the same one on my main workstation, for AM5 and it's awesome)

My plan was to retire my existing gigabit NAS running windows 10 pro ltsb with Intel RST hardware raid on 10-11 year old drives in favor for

• 2.5gbe
• proxmox
• software raid with zfs
• new spinning drives

This whole madness started once I upgraded my home networking from gigabit to 2.5gbe and then watching alot of STH videos on youtube for research... so, thanks @Patrick

 

[Elber]

I seem to remember having problems with the HDMI port right after assembling my CWWK NAS system and booting it up for the first couple of times (remember: just be patient, RAM training might take several minutes!). I then connected my monitor via DisplayPort (which surprisingly got a signal), booted into the BIOS and loaded the default settings. To test the hardware, I installed Ubuntu and Windows one after the other on an SSD and had already mentally written off the HDMI port as "defective". But I don't know what and when, a few days later I tested the HDMI port again and it works fine since then.

Looks like you were right, I tried the Display Port out and it's working fine! I did have the itch in the back of my mind to try DP initially but I didn't want to mess with my nicely cable managed desk. I'd assume that DP would be the nonfunctional port, not HDMI!

The memory is running at 4800 according to the BIOS but if I can't access the XMP I'll just leave it there and maybe swap it out if I find a use for the 5600MT stick later.

Once I get it running I can post my setup, for those that are interested.

The sad and interesting thing about that is that I growingly prefer it to dealing with some of the big manufacturers. Usually with them you end up in customer support purgatory and never get to talk to an engineer.

I'm inclined to agree with this, I've had a trouble with parts ordered from aliexpress (and friends), but they always seem willing to help out and fix the issue.

But I'm not a fan of needing to go to the manufacturer for basic information like firmware, manuals, pinouts, etc. I wish it was more common to keep a repo on GitHub like BTT do

 

[chripo]

Looks like you were right, I tried the Display Port out and it's working fine! I did have the itch in the back of my mind to try DP initially but I didn't want to mess with my nicely cable managed desk. I'd assume that DP would be the nonfunctional port, not HDMI!

The memory is running at 4800 according to the BIOS but if I can't access the XMP I'll just leave it there and maybe swap it out if I find a use for the 5600MT stick later.

Great to hear! Does HDMI work after loading BIOS defaults and saving them? If not, you could try installing Windows (temporarily) on one of your hard drives, install the native Intel GFX driver[1], and see if HDMI works (and maybe even continues to work) after that.

BTW, I doubt the board supports XMP, but there are tons of RAM settings in the BIOS that might allow you to get some extra performance out of your stick. On the other hand, I have made the experience that RAM overclocking (and even XMP is a kind of overclocking) is very fragile and instabilities can occur even after hours or days of stress testing, even with different tools. I have overclocked the RAM on my gaming rig, but on a NAS or home server, I would stick with the default settings that the board has detected to be safe (especially if you plan to use ZFS or BTRFS arrays).

Once I get it running I can post my setup, for those that are interested.

Sure!

[1] Intel® Driver & Support Assistant

 

[SunnyCloudy]

CWWK Store replied, for those of you interested in the N305 version

 

[heyelly]

Guys, is anyone using this board with C states enabled? unRAID does not start if I enable them. Anyone else with this issue?

 

[Elber]

Okay got it running just proxmox for now. While I decide if I want to migrate my current ubuntu/mdadm array to TrueNAS or just copy it as-is (any thoughts on this are welcome), here's the specs:

N100 board
32GB 5600 Crucial memory
400W Cooler Master MWE PSU (Does quite well in wolfgang's spreadsheet, managed to get it for a reasonable price)

Using a spare (very old) 240GB Corsair SSD as the boot drive for now, might get around to buying another m.2 eventually if this feels insufficient.

As for cooling, I ordered the board with the jonsbo cpu cooler. It's a HP400S according to the manual. I'm running it without the fan, but I did plug the case fan into the cpu header. It's sitting around 38C, which seems fine. I'll have to keep an eye on it once I get it to a "final" state software wise.


As for the case, I'm using a modified Cooler Master Elite130. It's the case from my previous PC, and I'm glad I didn't throw it out because it saved me buying a proper NAS case (the guts of it are my current homelab/NAS, though they're on the floor under a cupboard...)

For the modifications I drilled the rivets out for the 5.25in bay cage, to make the top rails free of any crap. Then I printed a 3 part rack which the sleds hang from and screw into. I plan on designing some TPU bushings so the drives have a bit more isolation then I'll stick the .stl files on printables.



Here's the system right now, amazing cable management included:


Only the test fit drive is fitted right now, up until I bother to move the currently in use drives over.

Does HDMI work after loading BIOS defaults and saving them?

Not sure what exactly did it but yeah, the HDMI out works now. I installed proxmox, ubuntu server and proxmox again in that order.

CWWK Store replied, for those of you interested in the N305 version

I'm almost glad that it was out of stock when I ordered it, since this is "just" the base NAS and media center. I don't really need those extra cores.

I must say their 7840HS lineup is looking mighty tempting, though...

Guys, is anyone using this board with C states enabled? unRAID does not start if I enable them. Anyone else with this issue?

I enabled C states when messing with the BIOS but it doesn't look like they're being used for me either. Chripo did some testing here, which might be of some use to you.

I plan on playing with power management settings too, since it's currently idling at 23W. While an improvement over my previous 6600K system, is still higher than I'd like. Though this doesn't have the drives in yet so it could actually end up pretty close...

 

[homebyte]

I must say their 7840HS lineup is looking mighty tempting, though...

Do you think 7840HS will be able to handle transcoding? the chip ASM 1166 might allow better idle power states

 

[artorias]

Similar to the Jasper Lake Motherboard, these Alder Lake N boards also use the JMB585 for additional SATA connectivity. The Topton NAS MB thread shows that you can enable Staggered Spin Up in the UEFI for each individual disk.

Does this board also integrate the settings (Staggered Spin Up among other) of the JMB585 into the UEFI HII?

Regarding ASPM:
The usefulness of ASPM for a NAS in combination with drive spin down is debateable for some but can be useful for people that want absolute minimal power consumption.

The JMB585 datasheet says:

Supports PCIe link layer power saving mode

That sounds like ASPM to me. There has been much discussion about JMB585 ASPM support but no one ever confirmed it through a proper datasheet or flash/controller register map whether it is supported or not. Has anyone tested to which C-States you can go down with with this board?

The JMB585 SSU UEFI HII integration could be a hint that someone finally paid attention to use the proper flash image / option rom for this controller. This might also mean that proper ASPM support can be found on this board. Something that no known extension card with this controller has shown before.

If that's the case, could anyone here with a MB like this dump the flash chip that's attached to the JMB585 with one of those CH341A programmers? (most likely the one between controller heatsink and battery, U34 I think it says) Make sure to select the correct voltage. Would be interesting to find out if flashing this image to one of these extensions cards enables ASPM and SSU on them as well.

EDIT: Nevermind regarding tested C-States, just saw this. Still interested in JMB585 datasheets, there is also a reverse engineering project on github but it doesn't seem like there has been much progress...

EDIT2: Also just saw this here regarding SSU. sry should have read the complete thread before posting...

 

[homebyte]

I'm also struggling with MCX311A-XCAT ConnectX-3 - from https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005797688892.html.

Any luck with your card?

PS: the other card mentioned here QNAP QXG-10G1T has the chip AQC107 so cheaper versions can be found.

 

[yoinked]

@artorias: You should probably try first if ASPM is enabled on Windows using the official drivers

 

[frobme]

Hi folks, I have the CWWK N305 DC board running in Fractal Node 304 (a 305 in a 304!). Power supply is a laptop 120W off ali, seems fine. Everything checks out, Promox installed and I can talk to all the ports, video out works hdmi or DP, I have no need of the PCIE slot so no conflict worries.

The question I have is how the heck I would power 6x spinning disks from here. The board has 2x4 pin ATX but those only work if you supply 4 pin ATX in, I believe. I kind of hate the idea of having two different power supplies but I guess that's where we are.

1) Does somebody have a reference on a solid passive power supply with 4pin atx output that can support 6 spinning disks (planning conservatively for spin up, 75W minimum)?
2) Even better does anyone have a reference for a power supply that supplies the barrel the motherboard is looking for AND a 4pin ATX? If such a magic beast exists it eludes me. Split the barrel and do a barrel in to atx 4 pin out? The PS I have is 120W, arguably enough.

Edit I see this from another thread: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803105722805.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt , looks like it takes 12v in, am I looking at my solution? Just ignore the 20 pin ATX?

 

[chdnlsn]

Hi folks, I have the CWWK N305 DC board running in Fractal Node 304 (a 305 in a 304!). Power supply is a laptop 120W laptop, seems fine. Everything checks out, Promox installed and I can talk to all the ports, video out works hdmi or DP, I have no need of the PCIE slot so no conflict worries.

The question I have is how the heck I would power 6x spinning disks from here. The board has 2x4 pin ATX but those only work if you supply 4 pin ATX in, I believe. I kind of hate the idea of having two different power supplies but I guess that's where we are.

1) Does somebody have a reference on a solid passive power supply with 4pin atx output that can support 6 spinning disks (planning conservatively for spin up, 75W minimum)?
2) Even better does anyone have a reference for a power supply that supplies the barrel the motherboard is looking for AND a 4pin ATX? If such a magic beast exists it eludes me. Split the barrel and do a barrel in to atx 4 pin out? The PS I have is 120W, arguably enough.

Edit I see this from another thread: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803105722805.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt , looks like it takes 12v in, am I looking at my solution? Just ignore the 20 pin ATX?

I am still searching for a solution as well. I can say that this plug fits but the wiring is all wrong. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZXSNKCK

There is power on the socket when powered by a power supply brick. See my earlier post with the pinout diagram. There is 5v and 12v so it's just a matter of finding the right configuration.

I have this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09SZ66W3Q) coming tomorrow and will report back on whether or not it works!

 

[frobme]

I have this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09SZ66W3Q) coming tomorrow and will report back on whether or not it works!

Ah yes, well I believe that should work fine for a drive (I might even have one of those lying around somewhere) - but for 3 each? Those pins on the MB side do not look like they are 2.5A capable (30W/12V) but I am not a materials engineer, I just frustrate them with my experiments. Do please let me know!

Edit: to partially answer my own question, this chart ( AWG Wire Gauge Chart For All 44 Wires (Ampacity Chart) ) indicates the 18AWG in the adapter you ordered can carry a theoretical 14 amps. But I don't know the gauge on the motherboard other than "tiny".