Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report

[Stovar]

Almost like they just removed the 5 from N5100, yeah hunch is around 25-30 watts still when pushed.

I think the wattage difference was not too much off anyhow during idle with the N5105 around 8 to 12 watts and again roughly the same when pushed 25-28 watts, perhaps they all seem to do a similar job give or take the wattage.

 

[dazagrt]

Probably come within weeks my guess, Looks like they replace Celerons and Pentium brand for 2023 and onwards.

N100

N200

What model UHD Graphics is onboard in the newer chips? Just wondering what sort of grunt the 'Quick Sync' will have on those chips.

 

[rotor]

N5105 is 10W TDP, N100 and N200 are 6W TDP.

 

[skimikes]

Hopefully the first N100+N200 models on aliexpress aren't going to ship with engineering samples...

Still, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of these.

 

[rfox]

I finally got my R86s device - first device with N5105 - quick question for those "power" professionals - I have a J4125 based system which I wanted to replace with the N5105 R86s device - on the J4125 model i can get all CPU governors - but the N5105 only two?

J4125 - I set to ondemand:
root@FoxProxMini:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors
conservative ondemand userspace powersave performance schedutil

N5105:
root@R86SFox:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors
performance powersave

I checked BIOS and "C States" are on - what else am I missing? Any hints welcome . . .

 

[sko]

I hope I'm not alone trying to connect a USB serial cable to the RJ45 console port.
Here's what I have done so far (with little to no success):
- bought a Cisco USB serial console cable from AliExpress (Cisco console cable)
- purchased an RJ45 Open connector that allows me to reconnect wires without soldering (RJ45 connector)
- cut the Cisco cable and flipped the Tx wire as above, 3 to 5
- installed USB serial drivers, the port shows as COM4
- plugged the cable, set Putty to 9600,8,N,1 and nada

I rebooted the pfSense appliance hoping that it will spew out something and it did, a bunch of garbage that looks like baud rate mismatch.
Played with the baud rate (38400, 115200) without luck.
My keystrokes DON'T seem to be registered by the console (same as @sko above) so here's my question for the gang here: what IS the correct RJ45 pinout for the console (blue motherboard, first or second gen) and the baud rate?

What baud rate did you set in BIOS?
Did you enable serial redirection in /etc/loader.conf (console=”comconsole”) and what baud rate is set in /etc/ttys?
Be careful when editing those files - pfSense is a major pain in the butt as it constantly overwrites config files... Just use vanilla FreeBSD or OpenBSD if you actually want to get some work done (and configure your Firewall much faster and easier than via GUI...)


I linked to the pinout that's working for me (an allied telesis cable), but in the meantime I found out that some newer usb/serial adapters can auto-detect RX/TX mismatch and at work I'm currently using a standard cisco rollover cable with one of those units.

I have no idea if there any caveats for serial consoles when using windows - connecting from Free- and OpenBSD I just use cu or screen with the correct baud rate and it works...

 

[antenagora]

I finally got my R86s device - first device with N5105 - quick question for those "power" professionals - I have a J4125 based system which I wanted to replace with the N5105 R86s device - on the J4125 model i can get all CPU governors - but the N5105 only two?

J4125 - I set to ondemand:
root@FoxProxMini:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors
conservative ondemand userspace powersave performance schedutil

N5105:
root@R86SFox:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors
performance powersave

I checked BIOS and "C States" are on - what else am I missing? Any hints welcome . . .

CPU frequency scaling - ArchWiki

wiki.archlinux.org

Same here, i suppose you are using intel_pstate which gives only two governor. I set mine to powersave witch cpufrequtils:

apt install cpufrequtils

and then set the desired governor in the config file:

cat << 'EOF' > /etc/default/cpufrequtils
GOVERNOR="powersave"
EOF

 

[hammonds]

Has anyone managed to get plex working with HW transcoding in an LXC container and iommu enabled at the same time? I want iommu for opnsense passthrough but I've read here that I might need to disable iommu for that to function :/

 

[sqrwv]

N5105 is 10W TDP, N100 and N200 are 6W TDP.

Thing is that TDP value is a bit misleading, as it is the TDP value for the cpu base clock, not for turbo clock.
So we need to look at the base clock of the different models, N5100 base clock is 1.1Ghz for 6W TDP, N5105 base clock is 2GHz for 10W TDP and from what I could read N100 and N200 base clock is said to be <=1Ghz (to be confirmed when there are reviews, as intel ommited the N100,N200 base clock from the marketing specs).
Then with cstates enable, cpus can go lower than base clock and consume less with lower freq.

Still new generations of cpus, with new cores, could have better IPC (do more work) for the same clock.
In N100,N200 case, we will only know the details when reviews are published.

 

[Stovar]

What model UHD Graphics is onboard in the newer chips? Just wondering what sort of grunt the 'Quick Sync' will have on those chips.

I am unsure really don't really use quick sync, best to wait for the reviews on these newer N100/N200 but ark does mention both have
Intel® UHD Graphics

So it might just be similar to previous generations like the N5105 and N6005, there is this link also showing the other alderlake models.

 

[rotor]

Thing is that TDP value is a bit misleading, as it is the TDP value for the cpu base clock, not for turbo clock.
So we need to look at the base clock of the different models, N5100 base clock is 1.1Ghz for 6W TDP, N5105 base clock is 2GHz for 10W TDP and from what I could read N100 and N200 base clock is said to be <=1Ghz (to be confirmed when there are reviews, as intel ommited the N100,N200 base clock from the marketing specs).
Then with cstates enable, cpus can go lower than base clock and consume less with lower freq.

Still new generations of cpus, with new cores, could have better IPC (do more work) for the same clock.
In N100,N200 case, we will only know the details when reviews are published.

My understanding is you Turbo but on fewer cores, so if base clock is at 4 cores, then to Turbo you need to do it but on fewer cores, hence the overall power (the TDP) stays (roughly) within the limit. So for max Turbo it's a single core doing it. Have I got this wrong?

The amount of heat dissipated is directly correlated to the power consumed, but bearing in mind there is RAM, chipset, storage, network, USB devices etc., all of which consume varying amounts of power depending on how busy they are, it's difficult to attribute the power consumed *just* by the CPU, so while I agree that it's hard to know how hot a given chip will be (until it is released), I think it's reasonably safe to argue that a 6W chip will be cooler overall than a 10W chip, and also (within reason) reasonably safe to argue that the 6W chip will consume less power at idle. TDP stands for Thermal Design Power, so I expect these principles to be generally consistent.

Edit: ah the piece I was missing is that the motherboard maker has control of PL1, PL2 and Tau, so the chip can be driven much harder than Intel designed it for, and thus far outside of the TDP.

Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained

www.anandtech.com

 

[sqrwv]

My understanding is you Turbo but on fewer cores, so if base clock is at 4 cores, then to Turbo you need to do it but on fewer cores, hence the overall power (the TDP) stays (roughly) within the limit. So for max Turbo it's a single core doing it. Have I got this wrong?

I wish, but no, TDP spec. is only for base frequency.
Then it's what you say, turbo is only for one core and turbo freq. for all cores is not specified in those marketing intel specs.

In intel site, press the (?) mark bellow the TDP:


And if you press (?) under base freq.:


For example N5100 and N5105, compare base freq. and TDP:
Intel® Celeron® Processor N5100 (4M Cache, up to 2.80 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
Intel® Celeron® Processor N5105 (4M Cache, up to 2.90 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

I have N5105 and the specified TDP for all cores at base freq. 2GHz is 10W.
For my N5105 to give, 2.8 GHz in all cores I have to configure CPU power limit to at least 20W.
I think mine only needs 18W PL to do 2.8 all cores, but not all cpus from exactly the same model consume exactly the same, because of silicon lotery, not all dies consume exactly the same, so the only gurantee is the writen spec. for base clock freq. and TDP. Then turbo (1 core or all cores) will depend on PL1, PL2 and temperature.

I didn't look at the power for only 1 core at turbo 2.9GHz, when doing 2.9 in one core, the other cores aren't disable, they still work, I don't know at what max freq. (Some motherboards can allow all cores to run at max. turbo, I've seen this with other intel cpus, don't know about N models in these motherboards.)
I'm more interested in power consumption and temperature for all cores max load (2.8GHz), because it's the most extreme condition, we need to see if we can dissipate that heat and if we can sustain that speed forever.

PS: I now see you had got it, in your edit comment.

 

[EasyRhino]

Well, operating with disabled c-states had been more reliable. I was able to operate for 10+ days without hanging. But just yesterday the router had an explained hang on it. I may go to opnsense bare metal now.

to update on my self running proxmox and virtualized opnsense, I tried the following:
* c-states disabled in bios
* updated debian microcode
* latest 6.1 something kernel

and the router still bonked out after around 10 days of update. My wife rebooted it before I could log in and troubleshoot.

But that was my last idea, so just yesterday I installed opnsense baremetal.

One thing I did notice going through the opnsense USB installer was that on my monitor, it wasn't displaying the lower line or two of text characters, the ones where you would type in your answers to prompts. So I kind of just installed it blind with all defaults, and then used the web interface to reload a config backup. It was nice having a config backup so all I had to mess with was the interfaces (since before it was using the proxmox virtio interfaces).

 

[oneplane]

to update on my self running proxmox and virtualized opnsense, I tried the following:
* c-states disabled in bios
* updated debian microcode
* latest 6.1 something kernel

and the router still bonked out after around 10 days of update. My wife rebooted it before I could log in and troubleshoot.

But that was my last idea, so just yesterday I installed opnsense baremetal.

One thing I did notice going through the opnsense USB installer was that on my monitor, it wasn't displaying the lower line or two of text characters, the ones where you would type in your answers to prompts. So I kind of just installed it blind with all defaults, and then used the web interface to reload a config backup. It was nice having a config backup so all I had to mess with was the interfaces (since before it was using the proxmox virtio interfaces).

ProTip: you can edit the config backup and replace the MAC addresses, after restoration it will automatically assign the interfaces and ports for you and you don't need to adjust it.

 

[dazagrt]

I am unsure really don't really use quick sync, best to wait for the reviews on these newer N100/N200 but ark does mention both have
Intel® UHD Graphics

So it might just be similar to previous generations like the N5105 and N6005, there is this link also showing the other alderlake models.

Thanks, I did see that. I hope they give it at least a 6xx series GPU, but that might even be setting the bar too high.

 

[hammonds]

Has anyone managed to get plex working with HW transcoding in an LXC container and iommu enabled at the same time? I want iommu for opnsense passthrough but I've read here that I might need to disable iommu for that to function :/

Fixed my own issue, one of the guides had the following command
echo "options i915 enable_guc=2" > /etc/modprobe.d/i915.conf
I found another thread with someone suggesting to run this to see if guc is enabled, mine wasn't
dmesg | grep -iE "huc|guc|dmc"
I edited /etc/modprobe.d/i915.conf and removed the quotations, rebooted and it's now functioning as expected, not really sure why but I'll take it as a win

 

[Stovar]

One thing I did notice going through the opnsense USB installer was that on my monitor, it wasn't displaying the lower line or two of text characters, the ones where you would type in your answers to prompts. So I kind of just installed it blind with all defaults, and then used the web interface to reload a config backup. It was nice having a config backup so all I had to mess with was the interfaces (since before it was using the proxmox virtio interfaces).

Did you use an TV by chance as the display? sometimes I have noticed the last 2 lines not displaying either, I set my TV hdmi input to PC input mode
and the last 2 lines popped right up even on an 15 year old PC.

 

[EasyRhino]

Did you use an TV by chance as the display? sometimes I have noticed the last 2 lines not displaying either, I set my TV hdmi input to PC input mode
and the last 2 lines popped right up even on an 15 year old PC.

interesting, mine was a moderately old viewsonic computer monitor grapped off the work garbage pile. And I was getting the last two lines truncated on either the displayport or the hdmi plugs.

 

[oneplane]

Truncation on HDMI is due to overscan most of the time. This is because HDMI is essentially a worse version of DVI, modified for TVs. That silly port doesn't belong in the computer world, DisplayPort is the one true way (including the thunderbolt/USB-C alt modes).

 

[ServeTheHummus]

There's now a single benchmark result in Passmark's database for the new Intel N100 CPU. It shouldn't be trusted too much, but it doesn't look as good as I hoped either. The single threaded score is on par with N5105 while the overall score is even behind N5100.

Still need to wait for a proper review, but this might not be the SKU to dethrone N5105.