SuperMicro X13SWA-TF W690 LGA-4677 Sapphire Rapids

[odditory]

6x PCIe 4.0, 2x10GB, 3xM.2, E-ATX

Retail USD $960

Spotted at ATIC Computers - Motherboards / Supermicro S4677 - MBD-X13SWA-TF-O - X13SWA-TF Intel W790 LGA-4677 6x PCIe4.0x16 2x 10G-LAN RJ45 IPMI eATX

(Speculative) Announcement: Feb 2023, release April 2023

 

[nabsltd]

If I'm seeing this right, there are also NVMe (U.2, Oculink, whatever) connectors on the right side of the board, above the 8x SATA.

 

[ramicio]

That's gonna be in a future build of mine. Probably when those processors are like 2 generations old. Specs are a bit off here. It uses the W790 chipset, not the W690. The six x16 PCIe slots are 5.0, not 4.0. And four 5.0 M.2 slots, not only three. Ethernet is one 10gb port and one 1gb port (shared for IPMI), not two 10gb. My source: the manual.

 

[111alan]

Why not get a dual socket C741 instead. There aren't any price differences. And two lower end cpus could both be less expensive and perform better, than a high end one. Not to mention the MCC configuration this generation may be much better than XCC due to design preferences.

Or a X13SEI, which is cheaper. Unless you really want 16 dimm slots.

 

[ramicio]

Why not get a dual socket C741 instead. There aren't any price differences. And two lower end cpus could both be less expensive and perform better, than a high end one. Not to mention the MCC configuration this generation may be much better than XCC due to design preferences.

Or a X13SEI, which is cheaper. Unless you really want 16 dimm slots.

You're free to try using a server board in a workstation if you want. And yeah, there is huge price difference between the SP line and the W line. Different lineups of CPUs and motherboards exist for a reason...

 

[111alan]

You're free to try using a server board in a workstation if you want. And yeah, there is huge price difference between the SP line and the W line. Different lineups of CPUs and motherboards exist for a reason...

The size difference is minimal. 12.1" x 13.05" and 12" x 13" . X13SEI is smaller, very close to standard ATX. And Xeon W can work on C741, W790 and C741 are basically the same thing with a different name.

Speaking about price, I have one 8480+ and two 8470Q for now. The two 8470Q combined is less expensive than one 3495X, and I'm quite happy to sell the 8480+ for the price of a 3495X, or make an exchange, if there's a chance. I would say that the price completely depends on where you get them.

 

[RolloZ170]

And Xeon W can work on C741, W790 and C741 are basically the same thing with a different name.

Xeon W -> DMI4 -> W790(DMI4 x4/x8)
SPR-SP -> DMI3 -> C741(DMI3 x4/x8)

support/known working:
Xeon Max is official supported by C741,
Xeon W on C741 reported working but proof missing
SPR-SP ES2 QYFQ,QYFP,QY06,QY0C working on ASUS WS W790 Ace @DMI4x8
update: only QYFP runs without BIOS tweak
stepping E3 QS do not work.

 

[111alan]

Xeon W -> DMI4 -> W790
SPR-SP -> DMI3 -> C741
Xeon Max works on C741, Xeon W not.

I tried a W2495X on my X13dei, it worked somehow.

 

[RolloZ170]

I tried a W2495X on my X13dei, it worked somehow.

somehow ? which BIOS ?
i tried a w3-2423 with X13SEI and got no life.
also supermicro sayd "does not work"
edit: supermicro sayd "not supported" exactly for the w3-2423.
that makes sense because the X13SEI is designed for 80 PCIe lanes, the w3-2423 supports only 64 PCIe lanes.

 

[ramicio]

It's not about size, it's about application. Server boards have RAM slots front to back, and workstation boards have them bottom to top. For good reason. And I've heard of W chips working in server boards. They're not guaranteed to work, and firmware updates may break them working. Intel used to have no distinction. For instance, I have an X11SRM-F and W-2140b in my desktop. When they came out with the W-31xx is when they REALLY started forcing segmentation between servers and workstations. Making vendors make server boards that supported ONLY server chips, and workstation boards supporting both. For some reason they allow both on workstations. And as for boot times, I don't know about their workstation boards, but the server boards take forever.

 

[111alan]

somehow ? which BIOS ?
i tried a w3-2423 with X13SEI and got no life.
also supermicro sayd "does not work"

There is only one BIOS version available, 1.1. Also 8480+ does work on X13SWA, mine was first tested by the seller on that board before shipping. I'll save a picture the next time I have the chance.

Supermicro will always say does not work. They deem everything out of their cpu and qvl list unsupported, even when it's some OEM cpus that work fine. I've learned not to ask them that.

 

[111alan]

It's not about size, it's about application. Server boards have RAM slots front to back, and workstation boards have them bottom to top. For good reason. And I've heard of W chips working in server boards. They're not guaranteed to work, and firmware updates may break them working. Intel used to have no distinction. For instance, I have an X11SRM-F and W-2140b in my desktop. When they came out with the W-31xx is when they REALLY started forcing segmentation between servers and workstations. Making vendors make server boards that supported ONLY server chips, and workstation boards supporting both. For some reason they allow both on workstations. And as for boot times, I don't know about their workstation boards, but the server boards take forever.

Server boards have RAM slots front to back, and workstation boards have them bottom to top

It's because of the direction of the airflow.

When they came out with the W-31xx is when they REALLY started forcing segmentation between servers and workstations.

What they were doing is adding an additional layer between traditional WS and desktop to cut cost. They seems to have regretted this decision, as there is no successor to X299. W3100 series works fine on any C621 that support 255W(or what we called "Amazon CPU") though.

BTW large socket WS boards also boots like forever. If you want that many cores, memory channels and an IPMI, there is no escape.

 

[RolloZ170]

There is only one BIOS version available, 1.1

officialy, correct.

Also 8480+ does work on X13SWA, mine was first tested by the seller on that board before shipping

interesting,
but from the microcode side ok,SPR-WS and SPR-SP share same platform microcode. microcode for xeon Max SPR-HBM is missing in all W790 boards.
looks that W790 can downgrade the DMI to 3.
that means not the other way round will work wo, C741 can not go DMI4, but can SPR-WS go down to DMI3 ?
update:
got a QY0C & QYFP SPR-SP ES2 step D0 working on ASUS WS W790 Ace, BIOS reports DMI4x8

 

[RolloZ170]

Also 8480+ does work on X13SWA, mine was first tested by the seller on that board before shipping

can you check the idle package power draw in windows with HWinfo please ?
idle means all cores @800mhz

 

[111alan]

can you check the idle package power draw in windows with HWinfo please ?
idle means all cores @800mhz

Around 75W. The lag is real.

 

[RolloZ170]

Around 75W. The lag is real.
View attachment 29663

than you very much. good or not good.
i have a QYFQ (ES2 8468v) and have similar idle power around 76 watts.
in a camparism between the w9-3495x, W-3375 and TR PRO 5995WX the w9 idles at 49W package power.
i think the additional accellerator units(QAT, DLB, DSA) must draw some extra power, note SPR-WS (w9-3495x) lacks them.
but compared to a platinum 8480+ prod.units idle power 75W @800mhz it looks normaly.

 

[sam55todd]

Even if it's extra 50W in idle mode I don't think this is material for server-grade CPU anyways (+1.2kW/day or 36kW/month) given relatively low electricity costs at home (but if you host it somewhere - then getting extra Amps above their standard cabinet offerings sometimes might be a tough conversation).

My ES SR (QYFQ) on X13DEI decided not to exhibit any life signs unfortunately (even no postcodes apart from dead 'ff' via IPMI)
Thankfully ebay has refunded without any delays but strangely seller is not even asking to send it back (therefore I have some suspicions they knew this CPU has issues).

This new info about W series (W3/W5/W7/W9) working on C741 chipset is quite interesting.
It would be great to get a confirmation of any other cheap CPU (available on a market for up to £400/$500) working with this board (X13DEI) having good stability and proper MS-Windows support.
Those $10K+ Prod units currently appearing on ebay are for now beyond reach of common home user (e.g. Xeon Max series listed in May item 195792632433 or recent 195816258944)
Otherwise I'll have to wait until autumn/winter for datacenters throwing those out for upgrades.

As for DMI speed v3 vs v4 - doesn't really matter IMV, there's hardly anything bottlenecking there since most board designs targeting standard or a bit larger e-ATX desktop cases aren't implementing neither full PCIe lane support for PCH nor for CPUs anyways.
For instance X13DEI doesn't have any PCH-bound PCIe lanes wired to slots (only some for internal/intermediate use for USB, Lan and BMC despite C741 having 20 lanes available and previous gen MBs had at least M.2 slot going via PCH) and wires less than75% of CPU-bound PCIe lanes (64 for CPU0 and 48 for CPU1 out of 80 lanes) which is really disappointing since it wouldn't take much of an effort to add several extra MCIO/OcuLink/SAS jacks (not wiring those to PCIe slots is understandable because of a very limited demand for previous larger form-factor MBs like X12DPG which I've almost bought before last moment deciding to go with LGA4677 platform instead)

 

[111alan]

than you very much. good or not good.
i have a QYFQ (ES2 8468v) and have similar idle power around 76 watts.
in a camparism between the w9-3495x, W-3375 and TR PRO 5995WX the w9 idles at 49W package power.
i think the additional accellerator units(QAT, DLB, DSA) must draw some extra power, note SPR-WS (w9-3495x) lacks them.

I think so too, there is also a "coprocessor"(PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_4940) which doesn't have a driver. From what ANAND have tested 8380 idles about 27W so 50W is reasonable without accelerators.

Intel have actually said that both C741 and Xeon Scalable support DMI 4.0, but I doubt any manufacturer would take advantage of this, as DMI4.0 requires extra R&D for better layout and wiring but hardly brings any real benefit in practice.

https://www.colfax-intl.com/downloads/4th-gen-xeon-scalable-processors-sales-deck.pdf

 

[111alan]

install Intel QAT driver

1.10.0-0005 doesn't support this device ID.

 

[RolloZ170]

there is also a "coprocessor"(PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_4940) which doesn't have a driver.

install Intel QAT driver
QAT2.0.W.2.0.1-0016 worked for X13SEI-F
there is a newer QAT2.0.W.2.0.3-0004 i have not tested because the other worked in Win10 pro.