Server Closet Cooling (Supermicro Fan Reversal + Venting Room)
- Thread starter svtkobra7
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Agreed.
re: your diagrams. Nice drawings, btw...
A) With AHU not running, induced air fan operating at top and air inlet at bottom, you have created a short circuit between exhaust and inlet, effectively making one big closet out of two... The spaces will balance thermally and you'll circulate hot air.
B) With AHU running no problem. The induced air fan must also be in service. Lower vent will function as intended.
My suggestion would be to install a 12-16" vent at the top of the connecting wall and install a similar vent at the bottom of the server closet door to allow fresh air in. Fresh air will enter at the bottom of the server closet and exit at the top into the utility room. If the AHU is on then it will draw the warm air out. If the AHU is not on then the hot air will disperse out the louvered utility room door and into the room.
I understand you prefer a induced draft fan over a forced draft fan; either way will work. Preferred way is forced air but not compulsory.
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Your right about the loop with the vent and fan so close.
Svtkobra posted a picture of his floor plan, this is my current thinking:
Cool air from the bedroom closet (it has bypass doors so it should allow some airflow) and out to the Utility room.
I'd try just vents first, one near the floor between bedroom and server closet, and one near the ceiling between server and utility closet. You could always add a fan later if it proved necessary.
Agreed. The vents need to be large; I've mentioned 12-16" a couple times. Perhaps pick up a return air cover to use as a template. Also, invest in 3 cheap thermometers to monitor temperatures. Maybe have a nephew assemble a web-enabled RPi temperature logger...
Agreed, a moot point now, but that duct work was to be a new addition to connect the fan to the AHU (only mod would have been to an airfilter). Regardless, this is much better and easier.
I REALLY LIKE IT!!!How about a set up like this, up top is a through wall fan, either always on, or on a thermostat. Lower in the wall is just a passive vent.
I almost added one item (see Q2) to your diagram, but your illustrations are so much better than mine that I didn't want to deface it.
Q1: Do you have a specific through wall fan in mind? Or should I shop around and report back with what I've found?
Q2: Initially I was opposed to having a passive vent anywhere that was view able, not that it would bother me so much, but rather because at some point I will sell this place and prefer to do as little re-work as possible. That being said, the below closet I built is on the other size of the server closet, more specifically, the shoe rack is directly behind the server closet. I could add a 4" H x 14" W vent under the shoe rack and another between the studs in the server closet. I think it would be more effective than just depending on the gap between the server closet door and the floor. Thoughts?
NB: Working on a full mockup of the complete solution which I will post for your review once complete (likely tomorrow). Need to catch some sleep before the workweek.
Q2 - Reference Image
Q2 - Reference Product
TruAire 14 in. x 4 in. 3-Way Wall/Ceiling Register-103M 14X04 - The Home Depot
Too funny, I was working on a mockup of the entire closet (layout, components, etc.) and was a few posts behind … I posted a proposed modification with a vent in the closet and then catch up on your posts and you have proposed same. I would suggest that great minds think alike, but you two are the brains of this op and my brain is mush - need to catch some sleep.
Good Night all. Thank you so very much for all of your help. It means more than you know. All the Best.
+1
+2
+3
No issue leaving the sliding closet door in front of the shoe rack open for unrestricted airflow.
Again, wow - in my latest modification, I used 4 x 14" - we could potentially use two if needed.
Good Night all. Thank you so very much for all of your help. It means more than you know. All the Best.
We haven't discussed server orientation in the closet...
I have no experience in reversing airflow through a server. Although it may be possible to do without damage, I suspect the design engineers configured the airflow the way they did for very good reasons, and I would hesitate to re-engineer without some testing. If others have successfully done this then you have your answer: reverse fan direction and mount the server vertically on the wall.
That would be Plan A...
Plan B options that come to mind: (all with normal server fan rotation)
B1) Mount the vertical server on the back wall of the server closet with its lowest point ~6" above the new air inlet vent. Fabricate/purchase and install a simple metal or plastic deflector to direct the server exhaust air 90 degrees to the front. Create a second fresh air vent at a point immediately above the highest point of the server.
Fresh air will be drawn in by the server fans, heated and discharged at a right angle from the bottom. The heated air will travel across the closet and up towards the exit, inducing airflow from the lower fresh air vent. Free lift.
B2) Fir out the back wall of the server closet to create a 1.5" warm air chimney.
Attach 2x4s on the flat to the metal studs at the back wall and install min. 1/2" plywood to make the new mounting surface. The lowest part of the server should be at the same elevation as the bottom of the plywood (~6" above the inlet air vent), allowing a deflector to route the hot air into the chimney. Leave the chimney open at the bottom to induce air flow from the fresh air vent, and open at the top at the same elevation as the lowest part of the opening to the utility closet.
B3) Invert the server and mount to the wall; secure with strap, elastic cord, steel/wood bar or latches.
The server orientation does not matter as long as it is securely attached to the wall.
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Agreed. In a project with an unlimited time horizon (don't believe those exist), it would be nice to test the effective nice of this, but I suspect the "gains" may be marginal and this adds unnecessary complexity.
Let me provide a preview of where I'm headed with design of other components in the server closet (to be followed with the aforementioned mock up as soon as I have time to finish it). Allow me to preface: the reason for taking this approach is because at some point (that point may be 5 years out), I will sell my condo and a very, very small % of buyers are going to appreciate a "coat closet" being re-purposed as a "server closet". Where possible, I want to engineer the "server closet" such that it can be reverted back to a coat closet with minimal effort (which should be possible if I plan for such now).
- 72" vertical (panels) which are 14" deep mounted 35" apart, which leaves 2 3/8" between each vertical panel and the wall [1]
- Installation of 3 x 36" shelves (they are actually 35" wide) and are 14" deep at the following locations:
- Top of vertical panels
- Above rack / below structured wiring panel
- Bottom of vertical panels
- As needed, I can cut out the center of those panels to allow upward airflow, but let me add they are 14" deep and the closet is 25.5" deep. Further discussion below, where I address your comments directly.
- Installation of white melamine panel [2] between the verticals, extending from the bottom of the verticals to that shelf above the rack, but below the structured wiring panel.
- This backer is needed for secure installation of the rack.
- Further, I may paint the melamine wall color (not sure how the white will look in juxtaposition to existing wall color and the espresso closet organizer color), but even if not, when the rack is removed the holes for the rack fasteners are easily patched and the melamine painted.
- Why pursue this approach?
- Function:
- When viewed as part of the complete installation, inclusion of that closet organizer increase structural rigidity.
- Form (reference comment about sale occurring at some point in the future)
- The "espresso" finish matches the finish of the other 4 closets I built.
- Those 36" shelves, if airflow cut out is made, are easily swapped for new shelves (reference sale comment), I have plenty of spares from building the prior closets.
- The shelves at the top and bottom "conceal" the vents (reference A, B, C in marked up image below) such that they need not be removed.
- A clothes hanging rod is easily added for "normalcy."
- Function:
[2]Melamine White Panel (Common: 3/4 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft.; Actual: .750 in. x 49 in. x 97 in.)-461877 - The Home Depot
- The rack I'm planning on using has the following dimensions[3]:
- Height: 21U space - 40.45" overall
- Depth: 9U space - 17.88" overall
- Assuming the CSE-836 is 26" in height (depth in normal orientation), this leaves me with 14.45" of rack space below it for UPS and switches (in addition to room for a patch panel + leaving room for future expansion).
Now to your comments:
- Mount the vertical server on the back wall of the server closet with its lowest point ~6" above the new air inlet vent. Unfortunately, with how I plan to design there is 14.45" inches below the bottom (rear) of the CSE-836 and the bottom of the rack. So the inlet from the clothes closet is going to be at least that far away.
- Fabricate/purchase and install a simple metal or plastic deflector to direct the server exhaust air 90 degrees to the front. I could install a shelf in the rack which would accomplish similar effect - thoughts?
How does the chimney come into play? Keep in mind that the back wall of the server closet is the back wall of the clothes closet so I'm limited in my options there. Further, what impact does the chimney have in combination with an active (forced air) vent towards the ceiling pushing hot air to the utility closet?
I may not know anything about servers, but I'm somewhat competent with DIY initiatives (see below although I suppose that image only shows I know how to remove a piece of drywall; but when complete you will never know it has been replaced). Most people hate working with drywall, but I love the "art" of patching it. You actually don't want the server rack installed at one of the edges of the plywood (aforementioned melamine in my case) as centered to "balance" the load is a better play (in my opinion). As recommended, I of course agree with the use of 2x4s, I will install a "frame" for the melamine from 2x4s prior to replacing the drywall.
I thought about that, however: (a) I'm not comfortable with the drive trays facing the floor and (b) there isn't going to be 26" of clearance to slide the server in below the rack and then elevate it to fasten to the rack.
I have modified Herby's diagram (which I agree is nice) with the latest update (inclusion of a passive vent from the Clothes Closet) to the Server Closet at floor level:
Do you have specific recommendations on the active fan labeled "A", the passive vent labeled "B", and can you confirm if my proposed 4x14 vent will work for C?
Where,
A = Active fan (connects server closet to utility closet)
B = Passive vent (connects server closet to utility closet)
C = Passive vent (connects clothes closet to utility closet)
Also, for that active fan, I think in line thermostat is the way to go, no? Specific recommendation for that?
I believe it to be prudent to plan for that active fan so I can wire for it before I replace the drywall. If later it is determined that it is unneeded, I can cap the electrical connection, remove it and replace with a vent cover. That approach is much easier than planning for a passive vent, later determining an active fan is needed and having to retrofit the electrical wiring.
Also you mentioned temperature probes and a monitoring solution previously. I would love to install tprobes, but since my nephews are still working with coloring books instead of breadboards, that solution will need to be created by myself. To be honest, the closest I've ever gotten to this sort of thing is delidding a Haswell 4770k (apples to oranges I know). A quick Google search shows that this is relatively easily done by myself, but I'd much prefer a connected, real-time solution (Ethernet or WiFi) as opposed to storing data on an SD Card as that article recommends.[4] Where would you suggest the tprobes be positioned, does each require a Raspberry Pi (I'd assume no and that you have something in mind that would connect the 3 tprobes to a single Pi), and can't you point me to a more definitive resource on this?
[4] Raspberry Pi Temperature Logger
I personally think that tprobes may be taking this too far, but requisite to quantify the success of the solution, and it would be nice to be able to test with active fan on / off, etc. Further given the time invested in planning, it would only be appropriate to report back with numbers.
To piggyback off that last comment, thank you again for your continued input.
I will try and address your comments in order of importance...
Melamine is sawdust and glue; minimal structural support and not an appropriate construction material. Nor is OSB. 1/2" or thicker plywood is the right product for whatever shelving unit gets installed.
Do not install a vent "B" between the server closet and the utility closet: it would only serve to short circuit the air flow and will reduce the overall cooling effectiveness. The final air flow path should be into the server closet from the bedroom closet floor, and out of the server closet into the utility closet at the highest elevation possible. All vent openings should be a minimum of 144sq.in each. Initial configuration will have all vents 100% open and throttling via cardboard guillotines may be needed (as may a fan), but this will be determined once temperature measurements commence during commissioning.
Permanent wiring to any future fan(s) is not required. Surface mount 14/2 romex is adequate, BX would be the next viable option (considering the open-air connection w. marettes at the front of the AHU, even romex to a JB is a step up.) If speed control is to be included it may be prudent to go DC.
Build the server closet to meet YOUR current and future needs. There is no tomorrow, only today; in 5 years time all new construction may come with designer server rooms... My crystal ball comes from the same manufacturer as yours. If at some point you want to revert to original simply remove the server closet contents and install fresh sheetrock over the old; a quick mud and prime and you're out of there for <$50.
A 'chimney' would serve to control and direct the server exhaust in such a manner as to not impact the remaining equipment in the closet. If a chimney is not viable then the the exhaust must be directed in such a way as to aid in evacuating the chamber ie away from incoming air and upwards. Any partition can be used as a vane to achieve this purpose. Warm rising air induces air to flow in behind it.
Carry on; we'll get there yet.
Melamine is sawdust and glue; minimal structural support and not an appropriate construction material. Nor is OSB. 1/2" or thicker plywood is the right product for whatever shelving unit gets installed.
Do not install a vent "B" between the server closet and the utility closet: it would only serve to short circuit the air flow and will reduce the overall cooling effectiveness. The final air flow path should be into the server closet from the bedroom closet floor, and out of the server closet into the utility closet at the highest elevation possible. All vent openings should be a minimum of 144sq.in each. Initial configuration will have all vents 100% open and throttling via cardboard guillotines may be needed (as may a fan), but this will be determined once temperature measurements commence during commissioning.
Permanent wiring to any future fan(s) is not required. Surface mount 14/2 romex is adequate, BX would be the next viable option (considering the open-air connection w. marettes at the front of the AHU, even romex to a JB is a step up.) If speed control is to be included it may be prudent to go DC.
Build the server closet to meet YOUR current and future needs. There is no tomorrow, only today; in 5 years time all new construction may come with designer server rooms... My crystal ball comes from the same manufacturer as yours. If at some point you want to revert to original simply remove the server closet contents and install fresh sheetrock over the old; a quick mud and prime and you're out of there for <$50.
A 'chimney' would serve to control and direct the server exhaust in such a manner as to not impact the remaining equipment in the closet. If a chimney is not viable then the the exhaust must be directed in such a way as to aid in evacuating the chamber ie away from incoming air and upwards. Any partition can be used as a vane to achieve this purpose. Warm rising air induces air to flow in behind it.
Carry on; we'll get there yet.
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- You are right - plywood is the better material to use, but also looks like crap when painted (without further prep).
- OK "B", passive vent at floor level connecting server closet with utility closet removed.
- Where do you get your 144 square inch per opening from? Not questioning your correctness, but that is a large opening and while feasible for server closet to utility closet, for server closet to clothes closet - even two 14 x 4 vents (56 sq in each) @ 112 sq in doesn't get me there and I'm limited by the width of the closet and needing to stick those guys between the studs. Thoughts?
- Your comment about permanent wiring not being needed is well noted, but while I have the opportunity to do so (before new drywall goes up), I might as well take it. I'm one of those people who hate cords everywhere and everything has to be cable managed. Is surface mount of "bare" Romex code compliant, I would think it has to be armored to be compliant (or run through conduit). If that assumption is correct, not sure how I feel about armored Romex being visible (especially where I have the opportunity to wire internally, now). And to your earlier question, which I left unanswered, it is indeed an electric water heater (not gas).
- I loved your comment about new construction coming with server closets (server basements would be preferable). That must mean that the cloud has fallen, eh?
- Fair point about install for today instead of tomorrow; however, I did have a closet organizer (heavily modified of course) in there previously and appreciated the additional storage space it provided and being able to simply drop in a new shelf for a new component.
- Regarding the chimney, I may have misinterpreted, but either way I need clarification. From your follow up, my inference is that the chimney simply directs air from the CSE-836 exhaust (rear) to an area close in proximity to the exhaust fan (to utility closet)?
- Also, sorry to ask again, but I would like to start thinking about sourcing components (after design is fully completed, of course): But do you have recommendations on the active fan / thermostat / tprobe? I'd like to start to tie it all together in mind head (and via diagram too). The server arrives Friday and while I doubt I will have a rack on the wall at that point, I don't want to leave it laying on the floor for too long.
We should start using numbers to identify our comments; my numbers are in the same order as your bullet points:
1) Use good-one-side plywood and seal it with primer or urethane. Install plastic edge banding for the professional look.
2) ok
3) 144 sq.in is a reasonable starting point. Larger is preferable, even 2' square. You want to reduce the resistance to air flow as much as possible... If there were no door on the server closet the air could circulate freely and all would be groovy. The door, being a coat closet, is likely 30x80" = 2400 sq.in, or 1200 sq.in each for intake and exhaust. From there, every reduction in intake and exhaust area is going to effect air movement within the cavity; keep reducing and at some point there will not be enough natural circulation to properly ventilate and mechanical assistance will be required. Fans can be avoided if the openings are big enough... They make 16" and 24" covers for return air ducts, probably home depot. Go big; size matters.
4) A utility closet is an acceptable location to run exposed romex: an unoccupied space not suitable for storage. If there is a chance that something could impact and damage the wire then install BX cable (armored 14/2). What is used to power the AHU and water heater?
5) I don't think cloud computing is going to appeal to the masses... Security and snooping and all that. I use iCloud for some stuff but have Nextcloud on my own server with VPN for anything important.
6) Please understand that some compromises are not worth the effort; you need a ventilated server room. Build a ventilated server room. When you're done with the space, build a closet.
7) The chimney is exactly that: a chimney. It funnels the hot server exhaust away from other equipment and towards the exit. If the chimney is also open at the bottom then the hot, forced air from the server will induce cold air from below to enter the chimney and mix with the hot air as it rises. The advantage of using a chimney is not having that volume of hot air mixing with the balance of the incoming cold air, keeping the server intake air as cool as possible. All other equipment in the room will benefit as well.
8) Don't sweat the fan. Get the openings finished off and the computer equipment installed. You need to do some temperature measurements before you can spec a fan. You need to know the delta T and pressure differential across the room in order to estimate the fan size and volume of air required to lower the exhaust temperature. Temps are done by cheap thermometer. Pressures don't need to be measured, just use a square of toilet paper to judge positive and negative pressures and their relative strengths.
Retrofitting a fan can be simple or complex depending on style. You need to know what style is needed...
1) Use good-one-side plywood and seal it with primer or urethane. Install plastic edge banding for the professional look.
2) ok
3) 144 sq.in is a reasonable starting point. Larger is preferable, even 2' square. You want to reduce the resistance to air flow as much as possible... If there were no door on the server closet the air could circulate freely and all would be groovy. The door, being a coat closet, is likely 30x80" = 2400 sq.in, or 1200 sq.in each for intake and exhaust. From there, every reduction in intake and exhaust area is going to effect air movement within the cavity; keep reducing and at some point there will not be enough natural circulation to properly ventilate and mechanical assistance will be required. Fans can be avoided if the openings are big enough... They make 16" and 24" covers for return air ducts, probably home depot. Go big; size matters.
4) A utility closet is an acceptable location to run exposed romex: an unoccupied space not suitable for storage. If there is a chance that something could impact and damage the wire then install BX cable (armored 14/2). What is used to power the AHU and water heater?
5) I don't think cloud computing is going to appeal to the masses... Security and snooping and all that. I use iCloud for some stuff but have Nextcloud on my own server with VPN for anything important.
6) Please understand that some compromises are not worth the effort; you need a ventilated server room. Build a ventilated server room. When you're done with the space, build a closet.
7) The chimney is exactly that: a chimney. It funnels the hot server exhaust away from other equipment and towards the exit. If the chimney is also open at the bottom then the hot, forced air from the server will induce cold air from below to enter the chimney and mix with the hot air as it rises. The advantage of using a chimney is not having that volume of hot air mixing with the balance of the incoming cold air, keeping the server intake air as cool as possible. All other equipment in the room will benefit as well.
8) Don't sweat the fan. Get the openings finished off and the computer equipment installed. You need to do some temperature measurements before you can spec a fan. You need to know the delta T and pressure differential across the room in order to estimate the fan size and volume of air required to lower the exhaust temperature. Temps are done by cheap thermometer. Pressures don't need to be measured, just use a square of toilet paper to judge positive and negative pressures and their relative strengths.
Retrofitting a fan can be simple or complex depending on style. You need to know what style is needed...
Better yet, spin up a SharePoint server and we will manage the project there
Kidding, but I love SharePoint.Like it.
Understood. If 2 4 x 14 vents for intake are the best my circumstance allows, doesn't going above or below 112 sq in have an impact on the pressure balance (especially if fans are added)? See #8a.
Armored Romex. Whether out of convenience as the builder already had a massive stock on hand for in wall wiring (code requirement w/ metal studs) or code requirement to have armored Romex direct to AHU and water heater, I do not know.
Fair point; however, I don't think home server closets will appeal to the masses either (I know the statement was made jovially and to support your point). I'll limit debate on the topic on my end to stay on topic.
OK.
Understood - so chimney is 100% internal to the closet (and I misunderstood the first time).
8a. I will follow your guidance, but can we please include a fan?
8b. By openings, I'm assuming you mean the intake and exhaust, right? Intake is constrained by situation, i.e. two 4 x 14, but what size for the exhaust? Also, reference comment in #3 where I ask if the intake size, known due to constraint, dictates an exhaust size requirement.
8c. I actually don't have any thermometers, but I'm happy to buy some. I'm assuming something with a tprobe or 3 so measurements can be taken with the door closed? And where should the measurements be taken from?
8d. Tell me more about this TP measurement. I don't think I will fit in the the room with the door closet and the rack installed etc.
Perhaps I should prewire for a fan?
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Yes. The exhaust area will be larger than the intake area because you are adding energy to the incoming air.
Consider this: a 1kg mass of air is held in a volume of 1 cubic meter. Heat is added to the air; if the container is elastic then it will expand and maintain constant internal pressure. If the container is rigid the container will remain the same and the internal pressure will increase.
In order to minimize the buildup of pressure in the server closet when adding heat, the exhaust area must be larger than the inlet area.
How much heat are you adding? = unknown.
Start with the largest opening reasonably possible, both intake and exhaust, and work from there. Once you have the static conditions dialed in you will understand what size fan is needed and where best to install it.
Use armored cable. I forgot about the metal studs. I don't like metal studs unless they're in a belly button.
Any cheap thermometers with large dials will work; you'll want to stick one in the intake grill and one in the exhaust plume to begin with.
As for TP; take a square and walk around the condo looking for leaks. Windows, entry doors, the AHU, etc. The paper will either get pulled in, pushed away or no movement. Negative pressure will draw the paper in, positive pressure will push it away. To begin with you'll use the paper to judge suction at the inlet grill.
If you must prewire for an exhaust fan then I'd suggest installing a receptacle in the utility closet; that way it may have some future practical use.
I do not anticipate using an exhaust fan. If natural circulation is not sufficient, I foresee using a forced air fan inside the server closet to draw fresh air from the bedroom closet. I suspect this fan will be axial flow, about 12" square and low speed. It may even be 12VDC.
Btw... If server/fan noise is going to be a concern then now is the time to deal with it. Before you close up the walls, fill the voids with either rockwool or OwensCorning 703 fiberglass insulation and install vapor barrier. Being metal studs you'll probably have to attach the vapor barrier with acoustic sealant. Do not use pink R12 or R20 insulation as this is designed for thermal not acoustic applications.
Dawg10,
I've taken your guidance and "flexed" my design a bit, with that flex being more bias towards function than form, I have added a vent labeled C, which will be position to the right of Server Closet below the desk of what the developer calls a "Computer Nook". Further, this adjustment aligns with your guidance to have more intake area (224 sq in) than exhaust area (168 sq in). Certainly the included image with product pictures and placement should help for your review.
Please let me know if this is a solid going in position as I would like to start sourcing these items today. Further, can you confirm that I need 2 of each item, i.e. 8 total vents, and nothing more to fill the area between the studs? If you have any suggestions as to better products, please let me know.
Thanks for your continued support and I look forward to your thoughts.
I've taken your guidance and "flexed" my design a bit, with that flex being more bias towards function than form, I have added a vent labeled C, which will be position to the right of Server Closet below the desk of what the developer calls a "Computer Nook". Further, this adjustment aligns with your guidance to have more intake area (224 sq in) than exhaust area (168 sq in). Certainly the included image with product pictures and placement should help for your review.
Please let me know if this is a solid going in position as I would like to start sourcing these items today. Further, can you confirm that I need 2 of each item, i.e. 8 total vents, and nothing more to fill the area between the studs? If you have any suggestions as to better products, please let me know.
- A: Exhaust (1 of 1): 14" x 12"
- Placement: Server Closet => Utility Closet @ 84" above Floor Level.
- Product: http://www.homedepot.com/p/TruAire-14-in-x-12-in-Fin-Spaced-Return-Air-Grille-White-173-14X12/203313427
- Note: I will start with 1 and add another if need be. Also, the picture appears incorrect for the size noted.
- Placement: Server Closet => Utility Closet @ 84" above Floor Level.
- B.1. Intake (1 of 3): 14" x 4"
- Placement: Clothes Closet => Server Closet @ Floor Level.
- Product: TruAire 14 in. x 4 in. 2 Way Wall/Ceiling Register-H102M 14X04 - The Home Depot
- Note: Due to installed Closet Organizer, 4" height is the best I can do.
- Placement: Clothes Closet => Server Closet @ Floor Level.
- B.2. Intake (2 of 3): 14" x 4"
- Placement: Closet Closet => Server Closet @ Floor Level
- Product: TruAire 14 in. x 4 in. 2 Way Wall/Ceiling Register-H102M 14X04 - The Home Depot
- Note: Due to installed Closet Organizer, 4" height is the best I can do.
- C. Intake (3 of 3): 14" x 8"
- Placement: "Computer Nook" => Server Closet @ 10" above Floor Level
- Product: http://www.homedepot.com/p/TruAire-14-in-x-8-in-2-Way-Wall-Ceiling-Register-H102M-14X08/202531607
- Note: Rotated 90 degrees to position in corner and reduce visibility. The developer calls it a "Computer Nook" and it may work for an iMac, but not my workstation (I currently just have an AIO MFP sitting on the granite desk).
Thanks for your continued support and I look forward to your thoughts.
I may not have explained the 'hot air requires more exhaust area' comment correctly... In a heated circulation system the exhaust area needs to be larger than the intake.
I like the new vent at "C"; stay with it and delete vent "B".
A grill is not required over "A" and may actually work against you, adding a unnecessary restriction to the flow.
If the only wall available to sound insulate is the wall against the bedroom closet then don't bother with the insulation; the closet itself will deaden any sound.
I like the new vent at "C"; stay with it and delete vent "B".
A grill is not required over "A" and may actually work against you, adding a unnecessary restriction to the flow.
If the only wall available to sound insulate is the wall against the bedroom closet then don't bother with the insulation; the closet itself will deaden any sound.
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Dawg10, Solid - thanks for the quick confirm. I may not have the knowledge of fluid dynamics that you do, nor be able to explain how "fluid" dynamics applies to air (gas) - a joke - but I do at least know how to take advice from someone who clearly knows what they are talking about. I'm genuinely thankful for your time and knowledge.
I take it that since you like my flexibility and exhaust vent "C", I can have my active cooling? Heck I don't even need to prewire for that one as there is an outlet feet away.
I think the "collaborative" and also pragmatic approach regarding suggestion of nixing that vent cover is to:
(1) plan for the grill on "A",
(b) quantify temps with and without, and
(c) remove vent, return, and go wide open if better off without.
Savvy?
I should note, that I prefer it to be covered for aesthetic reasons. Yes, I'll take a slap on the head for that position considering it is a closet. If anything can be learned from putting headers, an off-road x-pipe (no cats), and cat back exhaust on my Mustang Cobra from back in the day, wide open is the way to go. You will probably tell me that I don't understand and there is no correlation, but at least now you know why my silly handle is what it is. Well maybe there is some correlation in that you could hear that car 3 miles away and the same will be true for that server!
As final follow up prior to sourcing:
(a) In regards to "A" new intake, I have seen some vents (that have aluminum conduit connecting the pair which sits between studs an in the wall), is that needed?
(b) I'm assuming you have done the math, and new intake area is only 112 sq inches v exhaust area of 168 sq in.
(c) May I ask why you think "A" (nook intake) is preferable to "B" (closet intake), they have equal surface areas, but "B" is more evenly distributed along the entire bottom of the closet and position as closed as possible to the floor.
(d) I was hoping to avoid noise in the living area which is basically right at that nook, but noise is going to have fun moving directly through that vent to my ears. Nothing to be done there I suppose.
(e) Finally, no need to weatherstrip at bottom of door, right? I imagine those few square inches help (marginally) and not hurt.
Tangential: Should I take a crack at design of the exhaust pipe, then pass along for your review? Don't worry, not cats in that exhaust pipe either (too pricey once you consider the cost of the platinum).
I think this consensus calls for a beer at days end. Cheers!
Ack that my jokes suck. Not sure what is worse, them just sucking, or knowing they suck and still making them?
I take it that since you like my flexibility and exhaust vent "C", I can have my active cooling? Heck I don't even need to prewire for that one as there is an outlet feet away.
I think the "collaborative" and also pragmatic approach regarding suggestion of nixing that vent cover is to:
(1) plan for the grill on "A",
(b) quantify temps with and without, and
(c) remove vent, return, and go wide open if better off without.
Savvy?
I should note, that I prefer it to be covered for aesthetic reasons. Yes, I'll take a slap on the head for that position considering it is a closet. If anything can be learned from putting headers, an off-road x-pipe (no cats), and cat back exhaust on my Mustang Cobra from back in the day, wide open is the way to go. You will probably tell me that I don't understand and there is no correlation, but at least now you know why my silly handle is what it is.
Well maybe there is some correlation in that you could hear that car 3 miles away and the same will be true for that server!As final follow up prior to sourcing:
(a) In regards to "A" new intake, I have seen some vents (that have aluminum conduit connecting the pair which sits between studs an in the wall), is that needed?
(b) I'm assuming you have done the math, and new intake area is only 112 sq inches v exhaust area of 168 sq in.
(c) May I ask why you think "A" (nook intake) is preferable to "B" (closet intake), they have equal surface areas, but "B" is more evenly distributed along the entire bottom of the closet and position as closed as possible to the floor.
(d) I was hoping to avoid noise in the living area which is basically right at that nook, but noise is going to have fun moving directly through that vent to my ears. Nothing to be done there I suppose.
(e) Finally, no need to weatherstrip at bottom of door, right? I imagine those few square inches help (marginally) and not hurt.
Tangential: Should I take a crack at design of the exhaust pipe, then pass along for your review? Don't worry, not cats in that exhaust pipe either (too pricey once you consider the cost of the platinum).
I think this consensus calls for a beer at days end. Cheers!
Ack that my jokes suck. Not sure what is worse, them just sucking, or knowing they suck and still making them?
I like working with smart people. After your first couple posts it was apparent that you don't have a clue what you're doing but damn the torpedoes... The couple of degrees thing sealed it, that and nice condo, btw.
18 years ago I was working as coordinator on a oilsands R&D project; joint venture thing, $30MM budget, 7 named oil companies, university and government types. The technical committee had a senior petroleum engineer at the table from each member company. A lot of PhDs, many with more than one degree. Big Oil R&D, university professors and government advisers. After the money ran out I contracted out to one of the committee members, which turned into a 12 year relationship and me managing a pilot project up north. I got to work with some incredible people. But a few of them were so specialized they were dumb as bricks on some things. Not that you are. Maybe. But being smart, there's hope.
You'll only get active cooling if it's required. It costs money to run a fan 24/7.
The collaborative says good plan.
I get the aesthetic thing with the grills. For vent A: I'd make a finished box with drywall. At some point I'd make an insert grate from 1" angle and steel mesh, 2", maybe 4" if I can find it. Paint it black. Total overkill.
For vent C: hell yeah. If they make the right size mating pair of registers, then who are we to mess with nature? This is in the nice to have column, but with a star.
Not enough data to do the math. Yet. Go with best practice, modify the environment to support data capture, and wait until the heat is on.
Vent C was preferable over vent B because I was only just informed that there may be a sound issue re: vent C. This from the same source that introduced vent C as an option. Scratch vent C; vent B is back in.
Door weatherstripping is part of the (potential) fan scope.
18 years ago I was working as coordinator on a oilsands R&D project; joint venture thing, $30MM budget, 7 named oil companies, university and government types. The technical committee had a senior petroleum engineer at the table from each member company. A lot of PhDs, many with more than one degree. Big Oil R&D, university professors and government advisers. After the money ran out I contracted out to one of the committee members, which turned into a 12 year relationship and me managing a pilot project up north. I got to work with some incredible people. But a few of them were so specialized they were dumb as bricks on some things. Not that you are. Maybe. But being smart, there's hope.
You'll only get active cooling if it's required. It costs money to run a fan 24/7.
The collaborative says good plan.
I get the aesthetic thing with the grills. For vent A: I'd make a finished box with drywall. At some point I'd make an insert grate from 1" angle and steel mesh, 2", maybe 4" if I can find it. Paint it black. Total overkill.
For vent C: hell yeah. If they make the right size mating pair of registers, then who are we to mess with nature? This is in the nice to have column, but with a star.
Not enough data to do the math. Yet. Go with best practice, modify the environment to support data capture, and wait until the heat is on.
Vent C was preferable over vent B because I was only just informed that there may be a sound issue re: vent C. This from the same source that introduced vent C as an option. Scratch vent C; vent B is back in.
Door weatherstripping is part of the (potential) fan scope.
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- I actually don't get the torpedoes comment, but would like to understand (reference to Tom Petty?) [serious question]
- Trust me, I am far from smart ...
- Herby definitely is, but I hope he didn't get an idea from this thread, get carried away and build a massive impeller which sucked him in and is holding him hostage. He does seem to have disappeared and he did make very, very nice diagrams. Which reminds me and I suppose it is a bit of an inside joke, but if you are ever in a boardroom have no effing clue what you are talking about, are backed into a corner and need to recover, just lean on your slick .pptx deck with the pretty colors and shapes which will induce a shock and awe effect and save the day. I suppose that also only works in certain boardrooms. No direct reference to Herby there of course.
- I will be the first to admit I have no clue what I'm doing, when convection was mentioned I had to ask myself why are we putting my server in the oven? That would only make the heat worse, no?
- Technically 4 degrees, but those are just pieces of expensive paper. And who is counting? Not me.
- Regarding the condo, thank you, but to be honest: (a) it is Atlanta (housing prices are cheap here, relative to national average) and (b) I have a real estate license (non-core activity) and I either got really, really lucky acting as principal on this buy or I'm really, really good and caught the falling knife (as they say) as I paid the lowest amount ever for any two-bed condo out of 400+ in the building. A bit of a risk seeking play as the building was ~50% vacant due to foreclosures when I closed.
- Some old, smart guy once suggested that one be "Fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful" ... there may be some merit there, I think he has a few $$$ to his name.
Source: S&P CoreLogic Case-Shiller Atlanta Home Price NSA Index v S&P CoreLogic Case-Shiller 20-City Composite Home Price NSA Index
I did an O&G JV too for a bit and share your sentiments, I learned a lot and managed implementation of an SAP BI stack (HANA, BPC, BOBJ) ... fun stuff. Trust me, I'm not being modest, or lying I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. I mean I originally suggested reversing the fans in a server LOL.
Depends if we want to introduce some good 'ol fashioned scope creep, there are always 2 neighbors who might not notice a tapped power supply. After all, only 2 5/8" pieces of drywall + metal studs/ insulation + 2 more 5/8" pieces of drywall separate us. Wouldn't be too hard. But I'd rather grab their uplink to aggregate instead. Maybe we pursue in Phase II (if we ever finish Phase I). Actually I hate Phase IIs, as in my experience, unless part of a project plan from Day 0, that usually implies project objectives couldn't be met with time and resources available and Phase II allows money to be re-bucketed and the project re-marketed to accomplish amazing new functionality that was just Part of Phase I to begin with. I digress.
Apologies, we have so many variables moving here, I'm not sure what you are referring to precisely.
I'm not sure who this dubious individual is, but perhaps checking his credentials is in order? That would probably result on you discarding any statement made by said individual. Inductive reasoning skills would lead that conclusion to be had from post #1 "I haven't started to research less noisy replacement fans."
Oh wait, I just realized you were talking about me, so let me chime in if I may. I don't think there is an optimal play here, as if intake is in the computer nook noise is created in the living area, but if the intake is in the clothes closet it is easily heard from the bedroom where I sleep (despite doors would assume). So in the event my vote counts (it shouldn't, I'd say put the noise in the living area and not the bedroom).
When are the homes with built in server closets that you made reference to previously coming online?
Server Friday is tomorrow, I feel like it is Christmas Eve. Time for a beer (also I didn't proof this as I'm actually headed for a beer, so my apologies for any grammar or other mistakes). Pardon my dry humor - I did warn you though.