New ZBook Studio G4 (Loaded)
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Haha the only reason I did not jump on it (but a friend did) was because I wanted a new Mac, I just prefer them in so many ways and I always have a HP machine for windows but really it’s only functional not much else, still that price almost tempted me !
Excuse the typos- working off my iPhone.
I thought the same thing and bought a completely loaded (3.1 GHz, 560, 2TB) MacBook Pro to compare/tied me over while the ZBook is built.
It’s by far the sexiest laptop I’ve ever seen/used, but I hate it. It’s going to back the moment the ZBook shows up.
-Trackpad is the best in the business
*The two finger right click is a major improvement from past ctl-click macs I’ve owned
-Design/build quality is phenomenal, but it’s easy to ding up/dent the edges of the case
-It’s eerily silent
-Battery life is decent, but nowhere near the quoted times in reviews unless you’re very casually browsing webpages with the screen on dim. Importing and building previews for RAW files in Lightroom on the plane ride home, I watched my battery life go from 100% to 68% in a matter of minutes.
-Keyboard is absolutely infuriating at first, but improves (some) after you get used to it. Going back to my W530 breifly was like a date with a long lost love. Lack of delete key is a minor annoyance.
-Being limited strictly to TB3 ports really is an issue.... and I would consider myself to be a highly “dongle-friendly” person. I was in a meeting in Connecticut Friday and needed to put some pictures up on the projector. The dongle is in the car and no local VGA/HDMI/Display port... ok no problem.. we’ll put them on a flash drive and transfer them to another employee’s laptop. No one has a usbc flash drive. Great, we’ll email/Dropbox them- files are too big and Dropbox is too slow. Alright, I’ve got a patch cable- no ethernet port. Ultimately we air dropped them to my iPhone which fortunately is a 256GB version, installed iTunes on someone else’s company laptop so we could see the phone as a drive, transferred the pics to their computer, and plugged it into a projector. Not ideal for a very long list of reasons.
-The touch bar is surprisingly useful and non-gimmicky.
-OSX is OSX. It does a number of things related general use/media consumption extremely well and is pretty stable. Integration with the Apple ecosystem is exceptional. It’s both pretty and fast. At the same time, there are numerous day to day tasks that are unnecessarily frustrating.. so you want to organize 1000 pictures into folders? Just run a vba script to create the folder hierarchy and drag and drop right? Wrong. You can’t drag and drop files from finder in thumbnail view (where you can actually see the pictures). Instead, you’ll need to either highlight a group of files (not using shift click) right click the highlighted files, and choose make a new folder with highlighted files, OR determine the start/finish names of the files you want to move, switch to details view with no thumbnail preview, and then drag and drop. This is obnoxious.
-Installing windows goes off without a hitch.. in fact it’s remarkably simple with the boot camp setup wizard. Although vastly improved from years past, Windows still doesn’t function quite as well as it does natively on a PC. The glorious trackpad isn’t glorious anymore, and many of the other built in MacBook Pro features no longer work or run partially crippled (e.g. finger print login, touchbar, etc)
-The speakers are nothing short of phenomenal, particularly for a laptop of this size (if you’re buying a $4-5K laptop for speakers you’re probably on the wrong forum).
-The screen is excellent, but glossy... and not nearly as good as the Dreamcolor Display in the HP. The only area where the MBP screen edges out the Dreamcolor is brightness... but to be honest, the MacBook Pro screen is nothing short of blinding at full brightness. I would imagine this was incorporated to overcome the reflections resulting from the glossy screen in high light situations. It also makes short work of the battery if not plugged in.
-Wipping out a Mac with the shiny little Apple logo on top feels a little “cute” in a high level business meeting.
-Last but not least, the memory, ssd, and all other major components are soldered to the motherboard... this means that your paying $3K+ for a laptop with a high spec i7, 16GB of DDR3 mem, a Radeon graphics card, and a 512GB SSD, OR coughing up an extra ~$2K for a 2TB ssd. I have a real issue with this on principle alone.
All and all, if your primary use of a workstation/laptop is iTunes and media consumption (e.g. browsing the web/social media) the new MacBook Pro is the undisputed, hassle free, fashion statement king. If I was still a college student, it would be my most prized possession.
If you’re buying it for professional use, don’t bother. You could buy 2x(+) extremely high quality and equally thin/light Zbook Studio G4’s with lightyears better specs (better processor, better/more memory, Quadro graphics, fully user upgradable components, better keyboard, better screen, and a full selection of ports), and still come out ahead. In the case of the ZBook Studio G3, you could buy 5, keep two, and sell the other three at a profit... it would even make fiscal sense to retroactivally toss in a Dreamcolor Display for the kind of $ we’re talking about here.
I’m hoping that the loaded ZBook Studio G4 is the perfect solution.. either dual booting W10P and RHEL/Ubuntu, or W10P and hackentosh.
On a different note, I’m regretting not buying a few of the G3’s from the link I posted. If anyone loaded up and wants to sell, I’d be willing to take 1-2 off your hands.
-Craig
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Please explain... I’m interested/curious.
Unlike the ZBook 15 G4 which has 4, there are only two slots on the ZBook Studio G4. Unless you have access to HP 32GB DDR4 ECC SODIMMs, I don’t see how that is possible.
If, however, you simply have access to 4x16GB HP ECC SODIMMs and/or a smoking hot deal on a ZBook 15 G4 (non-Studio), I want them.
-Craig
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Oh- And for those of you that ordered the G3-
Based on what I’ve read, the early machines suffered from atrocious fan noise, flickering screens, and other misc annoyances. This was true for both my first production run Dell XPS 9550 and Lenovo P50 as well. At the time, NVMe/Skylake/TB3 we’re bleeding edge tech and the BIOS/drivers had yet to catch up with the hardware.
The good news is that after 3-4 months Dell/Lenovo/Intel released updates which completely eliminated all of the issues described above. A clean wipe of the system with a fresh installation of Windows made the machines perfectly stable and silent.
Note that, particularly in the case of the dell, the installation order of the drivers/firmware was both critical and counterintuitive. As much as I hate instructions, you’d be well served to follow the manufacturer’s recommendations on this one.
-Craig
Based on what I’ve read, the early machines suffered from atrocious fan noise, flickering screens, and other misc annoyances. This was true for both my first production run Dell XPS 9550 and Lenovo P50 as well. At the time, NVMe/Skylake/TB3 we’re bleeding edge tech and the BIOS/drivers had yet to catch up with the hardware.
The good news is that after 3-4 months Dell/Lenovo/Intel released updates which completely eliminated all of the issues described above. A clean wipe of the system with a fresh installation of Windows made the machines perfectly stable and silent.
Note that, particularly in the case of the dell, the installation order of the drivers/firmware was both critical and counterintuitive. As much as I hate instructions, you’d be well served to follow the manufacturer’s recommendations on this one.
-Craig
I'm curious what type of work you are in where this is the case. Enterprise or government sales? Enterprise IT? In my business (law) it is becoming more unusual to see someone using a non-Apple laptop. Usually when you do it is either someone employed by the government or in house at some large (non-technology) enterprise. I gave a lecture to a large (150+ person) university class and saw a grand total of 3 non-Apple laptops in the audience. I was surprised.
I'm not at all impressed with the new MacBook Pros and have really been trying to find a better alternative, but haven't yet been able to find anything. Deal killers so far are trackpad ergonomics and screen quality. I would kill for Xeon + more than 16GB ram if someone could figure out how to beat the Apple trackpad and screen.
I’m under the impression that the Dreamcolor Display stomps the Apple screen... they are pretty much a standard for color accuracy and editing.
The track pad remains to be seen... to date, I’ve not used a trackpad I prefer relative to Apple... although the one on this latest MacBook Pro is far too large and often gets in the way on the palm rest.
I believe the idea here was to offer finer grainularity/control by reducing cursor speed and providing a larger surface for input (left edge to right edge on trackpad yields left edge to right edge on screen). This is great in theory, but also requires that you pick up and move your entire hand in order to traverse the entire screen/pad. After about an hour of use, I bumped up the trackpad sensitivity and reverted to using only ~30% of the trackpad surface area. If editing something that requires precise control I’m using a real mouse on a quality mouse surface, with a far larger screen.
Concerning my profession- I’m an engineer by degree, but own an oil and gas company and recently got involved in a new venture in the industrial electric industry. I spend a lot of time around XOM, and with 70K+ employees, I’ve yet to see a single Apple company computer in use. I would say this is true almost across the board in Oil and Gas and Industrial electric. The engineers tend to have W/P series. Everyone else gets T’s.
Now before you read this next little quip, recognize that it’s all in good fun and not meant to be offensive in any way!
All of you lawyers/doctors/academionites/etc. are non-technical guys that want the best (read: sleekest/sexiest/most expensive) option available for use in a relatively mild setting. Ok- End of smartassery
My laptops go from an oilfield location on the Texas/Mexico border, to the floorboard of my truck, to Alaska, to Canada, to the boardroom.. I need something rugged, versital, and truly up to the task of replacing my servers/desktop machines when high speed internet connectivity isn’t an option. My P50 served me very well, but ultimately I got tired of it’s weight and thought the new MacBook Pro was just too intriguing to pass up.... this ultimately led me to the ZBook Studio.
-Craig
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Just a note based on my experience with installing W10P on the MacBook Pro, I’m inclined to believe that the real magic in the Apple trackpad is software rather than hardware related.. there is no question that an Apple trackpad used with OSX is the undisputed king. When used with Windows, however, the magic just isn’t there.
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Precision 7510 has 4 RAM slots, but wouldn't recognize more than two of my Crucial ECC 2400 SODIMMs. Turns out the board only supports 2133 and can't downclock more than two.
Precision 7510 : Weird problems with Crucial 16GB RAM ECC stick (Only boots if you mix the RAM!)
EDIT: OEM memory didn't have this problem, but I've always refused to buy overpriced OEM upgrades, and I found out about this particular issue the hard way.
Totally glossed over the “7”510 and read it as “5510”.. I’ve always felt the same way about OEM memory, however, recently I’ve noticed sales by OEM’s that cover not only the base machine, but customizable components as well. When I originally bought my P50, I was able to add 64GB of ECC from Lenovo for ~$400 total. They had a similar deal going about a month ago.
Same goes for this ZBook I ordered. At roughly 45% off, the OEM memory starts to look more attractive. Particularly if you’re planning to fill all of the slots as this requires the bottom spec memory ordered with the computer (and to be replaced) be discarded. I think HP charges $100+ for the lowest memory spec and won’t sell the computer with zero dimms. ZBooks are a special case because they require a Xeon to be paired with ECC mem only.
Interesting. I bought mine from Ebay with non-ECC ram, but had spent lots of time on Dell's configurator. OEM was about 2x the cost of the Crucial sticks I bought (though this was before the crazy memory price increases).
Are you sure? I was very much under the impression that at least the 5520 did, in fact, support ECC.
I would also take Dell’s little disclaimers with a grain of salt. They don’t support reflashing HBA’s either
On a different note, how do you like the 7510? I looked very closely at a 7520... and would have bought one (or a ZBook 15 G4) if they offered the Pascal based GPU’s. Sadly, in order to get away from a Maxwell based GPU, it seems you have to opt for a 17” encyclopedia sized machine.
An interesting observation- The ZBook 15 G4 uses an MXM GPU. If and when I find the right deal on one, I’ll be buying it and an eBay P5000/4000/3000 and doing some experimenting.
eBay is always my go-to, but with some of the Black Friday sales going on right now, OEM pricing on certain models absolutely destroys eBay pricing. This is true even when comparing new to used.
What about the Dell TB3 issue? Does the port crippling apply to only the 5000 series or the 7000 series as well?
Agree. I was both disappointed in the huge trackpad and thought the keyboard was really awful on the new MacBook Pro.
You know, I think you are probably correct. I recall at some point I was using a Magic Trackpad 2 on a machine that was running either Linux or Windows and the experience was not the same at all. I'm really surprised someone (e.g. Microsoft with the Surface Book 2) hasn't figured out the software magic that makes it so pleasant. I suspect it has to do with some different behavior it does with inputs at an extremely slow pointer speed and the initial transition to/from movement and no movement. Maybe it uses more of the 'multitouch' type input at the beginning of a movement or on a really slow movement (for instance I can move the pointer by subtlety 'rolling' a single finger in the same spot) vs. an actual movement a finger across the pad. I don't know.
Ha! Yeah the most hostile environment my laptop is likely to encounter might involve an errant latte. We are also a profession, a sizable portion of which, has been dragged kicking and screaming from WordPerfect -- specifically a version of WordPerfect from over 15 years ago. I still will a few times a year encounter a law office which is sending around a .wpd file. Don't get me started on the continued fascination with the fax machine...Concerning my profession- I’m an engineer by degree, but own an oil and gas company and recently got involved in a new venture in the industrial electric industry.
Now before you read this next little quip, recognize that it’s all in good fun and not meant to be offensive in any way!
All of you lawyers/doctors/academionites/etc. are non-technical guys that want the best (read: sleekest/sexiest/most expensive) option available for use in a relatively mild setting. Ok- End of smartassery
My laptops go from an oilfield location on the Texas/Mexico border, to the floorboard of my truck, to Alaska, to Canada, to the boardroom.. I need something rugged, versital, and truly up to the task of replacing my servers/desktop machines when high speed internet connectivity isn’t an option.
I remember getting my first MBP years ago because of the touch pad / right click on the pad ability... totally blew EVERYTHING windows out of the water.... now my original chromebook does a rather good touch pad scroll/click too and my SP3. Def. not as smooth feeling as MAC but they've come a very long way in the last couple years that's for sure
I gave up on MAC after ~3 years of daily use I couldn't get accustomed to their naming/verbiage dealing with files and would constantly delete more than I had thought based on how windows did it.
I gave up on MAC after ~3 years of daily use I couldn't get accustomed to their naming/verbiage dealing with files and would constantly delete more than I had thought based on how windows did it.
Agreed. At this point, to me, the track pad is the Mac’s single biggest selling point. You would think Microsoft could get this right. Considering the “new direction” Apple has been taking with their ”Pro” lines, I suspect many (non-in your face skinny jean wearing) users would make the switch and never look back. That being said, I think higher end PC’s have made great strides regarding trackpad function over the past several years. I would also suspect that the majority of the PC camp’s sales volume is comprised of low end sub $500 machines which use bottom of the barrel hardware and get tossed and replaced every 18 months. This is in stark contrast to Apple who (at least in the notebook segment) compete at a much higher price point.. allowing them to spec higher end hardware.
As a business, I’d bet that the last 15% of trackpad function in high end notebooks (read workstations) just isn’t a primary concern. The average PC user doesn't know any better and has no basis for comparison, the gamers use a backlit, led, weight configurable “super duper ultra” mouse, and the workstation users generally get a company assigned machine and have no say in the matter.. what’s the incentive to change?
I’m glad you have a sense of humor (impressive for an attorney
). I knew that comment was a little edgy as it was being typed...A “Fax Machine”? What is this machine you speak of... some kind of sourcery?
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I have an SP4 that I’d like to sell, but if no one bites in the relatively near future it will become a hackentosh. This would be a great experiment regarding trackpad function.I remember getting my first MBP years ago because of the touch pad / right click on the pad ability... totally blew EVERYTHING windows out of the water.... now my original chromebook does a rather good touch pad scroll/click too and my SP3. Def. not as smooth feeling as MAC but they've come a very long way in the last couple years that's for sure
I gave up on MAC after ~3 years of daily use I couldn't get accustomed to their naming/verbiage dealing with files and would constantly delete more than I had thought based on how windows did it.
I’m also extremely tempted to pick up a less expensive MBP retina off Craigslist and take my trusty HAKKO FX-951 to it... see it anything can be done to address the memory/SSD issues.
I didn't say "isn't supported," I said it doesn't work.Are you sure? I was very much under the impression that at least the 5520 did, in fact, support ECC.
I would also take Dell’s little disclaimers with a grain of salt. They don’t support reflashing HBA’s either
32GB RAM (16GB x 2) now available for Precision 5510 (i7 and Xeon)
It's actually heavier than the P50 you mentioned earlier in the thread. It's pretty nice overall, but I'm not raving about the keyboard (Lenovo's x/t series prior to Haswell was the bee's knees, then they switched to chicklet, smh). Only has one NVME slot. 4K screen is fantastic, windows scaling less so. I'm not as demanding as I pretend to be though. My actual use has been Lightroom, Ableton, some gaming, and an Ubuntu VM that I use to code on. I still love having NVME and a spinning rust bulk storage drive onboard (shucked 2tb Backup Plus slim).
I'm also not following all the hate about PC trackpads, aside from the fact that they used to be really tiny. 7510's is sizeable, but I'm coming from a Lenovo x220. I've tried the new MBP in store and found it to be too big (palm mousing while typing, anyone?). I'm not a huge fan of them in general though; when I need to get stuff done my Logitech MX Master is the first thing out of my bag.