New to servers, want to build a Proxmox machine.

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Tomas Forsman

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Jun 27, 2017
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I'm looking to build a Proxmox server to use both with my small company for production and as a lab as well as for personal use as a NAS. I'm want to have local backup but will also back up to the cloud.

Usage work:
Webservers for development with nodejs, apache, wordpress, ruby etc.
Stable web servers for deployment.
Fileserver for hosting work files, both during development and archived.
Trying out different distros and systems and development containers.

Usage home:
Personal file server
Plex server
Game servers (CS:GO and Minecraft)
Possibly remote desktop Linux for the kids (sparely used)

I started by looking at building a NAS and there were quite a few guides on hardware but when I started to look at building a VM machine all guides I could find were suddenly software related. I figure the reason being that hardware will vary massively depending on scenario.

Silence would be nice but is not a priority, size doesn't matter. I would like to keep the budget under €1000 with a max budget of €1500.

I'm quite new to servers as well as VMs, having only played around a bit with Virtualbox on my desktop machine, so my knowledge is limited to what I've found the last couple of days. That's partly why I'm doing this, to learn as much as possible.

Thoughts so far:

HD for file servers:
Seagate Ironwolf ST10000VN0004 256MB 10TB (one to start with, adding another one later for redundancy)

RAM:
While looking at FreeNas the recommendation was 16GB memory with ECC but can't find any similar recommendation for a VM machine so I'm not really sure what to look for. What I've found is:
G.Skill RipjawsV DDR4-3200 C14 DC - 32GB

Mainboard:
Been looking at
Supermicro X11SSM-F
X11SSM-F | Motherboards | Products - Super Micro Computer, Inc.

CPU:
Inte-Xeon E3 1230 V6
Intel® Xeon® Processor E3-1230 v6 (8M Cache, 3.50 GHz) Product Specifications

And with this I'm at budget...

HD for VMs:
No idea what the best use here is so all help is appreciated.

I have a Silver Power SP-SS620M 620W PSU and a temporary case to use. Don't know if that PSU is good enough or not.

Is this a setup that could handle what I propose? Am I asking for to much?

Any thoughts and ideas are very welcome.

Tomas
 

ttabbal

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Mar 10, 2016
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Hardware should be fine. For what you are talking about, I would lean more toward more cores than fewer faster cores. RAM is also bigger is better, but 32GB should be fine to start.

You will need storage for boot/root/VM. I would suggest a mirror pair of SSD. Some Intel S3500 would be excellent. For space, it just depends on what you want to do. Proxmox needs 8GB or so, then each VM/Container needs some space. Get enough so you have some to spare.

That said, my lab machine uses a pair of 2.5" HDD for the boot and some VM/Container storage. The rest of them need the main array anyway, so I put them over there. It's a large mirror set though, so there's enough speed. I do plan to move to some SSD later though.

For storage, I dislike single drives. HDDs will die, it's a matter of time and luck. Always use redundancy unless you are willing to have full backups and downtime to restore them. Also thoroughly test all drives, including brand new. With Proxmox, ZFS is what I use and you need to add in "sets". So mirrors are easiest and cheapest to add storage. Performance is also better if you have more smaller drives than fewer large drives. So I might suggest 4x4TB, for example. It depends on storage need, budget, space in the chassis, noise, etc..

Your PSU is likely fine, the case as well if it has room for everything. If your case has the space, I would use a full ATX just to get more slots. You might not need them now, but they sure are nice to have when you decide you want to add a card later.
 

MiniKnight

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Mar 30, 2012
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@ttabbal with game servers you'll want high clocks. I was with you then I saw game servers!

RAM I'd get unbuffered ECC. You cannot use reg ECC like the big servers in the E3 line. It sucks but pricing is close.

DDR4-3200 is not useful. Just get standard DIMMs and save a bundle. You can't use extra speed. They'll probably have compatibility issues.

Best to start with 2x 16GB so you can add another 2x 16GB later.

Micron, SK.Hynix or Samsung RAM for servers, esp Supermicro. Kingston sometimes works, sometimes doesn't in SM.

Here's the list of what you want: Super Micro Computer, Inc. | Support | Resources
 
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DWSimmons

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Apr 9, 2017
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One thing I notice is that you are going for the one box to rule them all. You looking to dev, web, VM, storage, game server, services, and remote hosting. (I can relate as I'm in the same boat.) It can be done though @ttabbal 's point is very important.

For storage, I dislike single drives. HDDs will die, it's a matter of time and luck. Always use redundancy unless you are willing to have full backups and downtime to restore them. Also thoroughly test all drives, including brand new. With Proxmox, ZFS is what I use and you need to add in "sets". So mirrors are easiest and cheapest to add storage. Performance is also better if you have more smaller drives than fewer large drives. So I might suggest 4x4TB, for example. It depends on storage need, budget, space in the chassis, noise, etc..
If you put all your eggs in the one box to rule them all, you need to rethink your nest HDD/storage solution. High quality storage solutions may push you outside your budget.

I have another suggestion though it requires discipline. Go with your 1 drive but keep no important assets on the box. This means that your file server goes by the wayside. You can do all the things and you will learn. The things you don't know that you don't know will be known. :p Then you can nuke - install the sets of drives, level up on ZFS - then pave. At this point, you will have the confidence to load up your assets and serve away.
 
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ttabbal

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Mar 10, 2016
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I've never run CS or MC servers, so I'll defer to those that have on that issue. :)
 

fractal

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Jun 7, 2016
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A few brief comments from what I have seen --

- You will probably run out of RAM before you run out of anything else. e3-v6 is good for 64GB so buy ram that gets you to the limit when all slots are full.

- Please do not start with a single storage drive. Start with two and go from there.
 

Tomas Forsman

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Jun 27, 2017
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After doing some more research (still being very much a noob at servers and networks) I'm now leaning towards buying a used server, like this one for a bit less than $900 (€775):
Dell Poweredge R710 2x X5675 6cores 48GB PERC H700 iDRAC6 2xPSU

Dell Poweredge R710
CPU: 2 Xeon X5675 Sixcore Base 3,06Ghz Turbo 3,46Ghz
Mothercard: 4 integrated Gigabit ethernet
Diskcontroller: pERC H700
Ram 48GB (6x8GB) ,MAX 288GB ram (18x16GB) 1066/1333Mhz RDIMM ECC DDR3
Disk: None, room for 8 2,5" SAS/SATA
optical media: DVD
PSU: 2
Misc:; iDRAC 6 Enterprise
 
Last edited:

manxam

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Jul 25, 2015
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I'm not certain where you're located but that's a terrible deal. R710 can be picked up all over the place for ~$250 USD these days and even less if you keep an eye out.
 

Tomas Forsman

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I'm not certain where you're located but that's a terrible deal. R710 can be picked up all over the place for ~$250 USD these days and even less if you keep an eye out.
Withe 2 X5675, 48gb ram and that controller?

There are versions here for that price as well.
 

manxam

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Jul 25, 2015
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@Tomas Forsman, the X5675 is $55 USD on ebay, 48gb of ram is about $60, and the H700 I've seen for as little as $80. $900 just seems a little steep for that when you can buy THIS for $235 including 48gb of ram and swap processors and SAS controller for under $200.

Just my 2 cents, but for $900 you should be able to get a Supermicro 12-16 bay chassis, dual E5-2670, and 128gb of ram or THIS for under $550.
 

MiniKnight

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I agree that you can get an E5 system in that budget. X5600 is the earliest you'd want these days. I'm seeing more requirements for instructions like aes-ni and the X5600 series was the first to have it.
 
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msg7086

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I doubt using a single 10TB drive is a good idea.

Let's imagine you have a 10TB RAID1 array and one of the drive goes bad and gets replaced. How much time would it cost on resilvering?

The one from #10 seems a better choice -- a 12 bay supermicro chassis with E5s in it and multiple smaller drives (ES3 3T for example) in an array.

Also E5v1 saves you ~40w wattage per socket than the 5600 series.