IPC Difference in generations of chips?

Discussion in 'Processors and Motherboards' started by TType85, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    Looking at my next move. I was ready to go thread ripper but the cost of ECC UDIMM DDR4 and DDR4 memory in general is making me balk.

    I need at least 8 cores at 3+ghz because my workloads can use the cores sometimes and the ones that can't love higher frequency (VC1 Transcode from Plex, World Of Warcraft). Ryzen is on-edge or out due to Linux issues (iommu on my R7 1700 was a mess). The IPC difference is getting decent between the newest gen and the V2 but is it really that much?

    Looking at these 8 core chips:
    E5-2667 V2 3.3Ghz

    +4Ghz single core
    +Cheap ECC Ram
    +Under $400
    -Old tech
    -IPC lower

    E5-1680 V2 3.0Ghz
    +3.9Ghz single core
    +Cheap ECC Ram
    +Overclockable
    -Expensive
    -Old tech
    -IPC lower

    E5-1680 V3 3.2Ghz
    +3.8Ghz single core
    +May be overclockable
    +Newer Tech
    +Decent priced motherboards
    -Expensive
    -Expensive ECC Ram

    I7-7820X 3.6Ghz
    +4.5Ghz single core
    +Highest IPC
    +Overclockable
    +Price ($549 at microcenter with $30 off motherboard)
    - No ECC Ram
    - Expensive Ram
    - Expensive Boards, mainly gaming boards
    - Runs hot

    Any STH opinions?
     
    #1
  2. MiniKnight

    MiniKnight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,941
    Likes Received:
    857
    What's the difference in price at the same configuration level?

    V2 is Ivy Bridge and i7-7820x is Skylake?
    Sandy Ivy Haswell Broadwell Skylake

    Each jump is 6-8% over previous gen in IPC but it's cumulative. Ivy to Skylake is 1.06 ^3 to 1.08^3 or 19% to 26%
     
    #2
  3. T_Minus

    T_Minus Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    6,782
    Likes Received:
    1,457
    I've always thought IPC was simple, 6% improvement = 6% improvement but now I'm wondering...

    Does it depend on what the CPU is actually doing? Or is it an across the board 6% improvement?

    IE: Some is 6% improvement, but other tasks remain the same?
     
    #3
  4. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    Ivy is $375 for CPU, $270 for board, I have the RAM
    Haswell is $600 for CPU, $270 for board, $400 for DDR4 ECC (64GB)
    Skylake is $549 for CPU, $250 for board, $500 for DDR4 NON-ECC Ram (64GB), $100 for cooler

    It is around $600 more to go 19-26% more IPC. That is a pretty big price to pay for the performance difference. The advantage to the newer stuff is for resale down the road it will be worth more than the older tech. I have a bad habit of building, using for a while and flip for something else.
     
    #4
  5. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    I think it is a "it depends". The 1680 V3 is slower than the 2667 v2 clock speed wise, but would that 6% make up for a few hundred mhz?
     
    #5
  6. MBastian

    MBastian Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    10
    For what it's worth Anandtech had a IPC roundup from Sandy Bridge to Skylake. Interesting but I am a bit sceptical, especially that "Dolphin" benchmark seems skewed(AVX?).
    I for myself will will wait patiently until the E5-2667v2 ot maybe the elusive E5-2673v2 will come down in price. Imgo the E5-2690v2 or E5-2697v3 are just not worth it if you're not desperate for more cores and cache.
     
    #6
  7. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    The dolphin bench may use CPU extensions not in the V1/V2 chips. Skylake looks good, the new X299 chipset is meh and it sort of sucks that new Xeon generation went a different path so it won't be like the E5's that you can put in consumer boards.

    ECC is not a killer for me, I prefer it though.
     
    #7
  8. cliffr

    cliffr Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    31
    That's the way they get you. You can buy old and refresh every 24 months at 20% of the IPP. Or you buy new and have it last 60 months at 100% IPP.
     
    #8
  9. Patrick

    Patrick Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,543
    Likes Received:
    4,467
    Just as a heads-up, we should have a piece comparing 3 similar Intel Xeon E5 v3, V4 and Scalable processors tomorrow. It is written, just may get preempted by some other coverage we will have.
     
    #9
    gigatexal, abq, realtomatoes and 2 others like this.
  10. Peanuthead

    Peanuthead Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    115
    @TType85 I may me able to help you out. Give me a jingle.
     
    #10
    gigatexal likes this.
  11. T_Minus

    T_Minus Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    6,782
    Likes Received:
    1,457
    I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.

    What I was trying to say was assuming CPU1 = CPU2 in terms of frequency, but one is a generation newer than the other if they're doing the exact same thing on BOTH, is there any "task" that the older gen could do just as good as the newer? OR, is the 6% IPC an across the board increase no matter what "task" the CPU is actually doing. I don't know enough about CPU architecture to answer this myself.

    Now, regarding your question would 6% make up the difference of a few hundred mhz... well you could figure that out near exactly if you go with the 6% IPC gain, know the exact mhz difference, # of cores, etc... However, if my concern above about some tasks might not matter... then that may be a factor too?

    I'm curious :)
     
    #11
  12. Nanotech

    Nanotech Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    99
    Patrick will you also include V1/V2 for generational ipc differences? I think it gives a better perspective seeing as how V1/V2 processors are still somewhat popular (due to price/performance).
     
    #12
    realtomatoes, Evan, TType85 and 3 others like this.
  13. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    For now I decided to go with the E5-2667 V2 setup. I have the ram & cpu cooler, picking up a X9SRA board and the CPU for around $650 total. This should hold me off for a bit to watch how Threadripper and X299 work out and not get bit as an early adopter. Hopefully DDR4 will drop a bit in price.

    Edit:
    Passmark wise the E5-2667 V2 is pretty stout compared to newer chips
    PassMark - CPU Performance Comparison
     
    #13
  14. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    Got the E5-2667 V2 in. It runs real nice. CPUZ's benchmark put it a tiny bit faster than a stock 5960X (Haswell-E) and a little bit slower than a 6900K (Broadwell-E). Overclocked those two would beat the 2667 v2 hands down but I am not OC'ing this system.
     
    #14
    cactus likes this.
  15. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    Damnit. The X9SCA-F has 2 dead memory slots.... back to Amazon...
     
    #15
  16. Nanotech

    Nanotech Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    99
    It's definitely a nice Ivy Bridge-EP processor. It's only 100mhz slower than the E5-2687W V2 but turbo's on 1/2 cores to the same speeds as the 2687W V2. Considering that the 2667 V2 is only 2-3 generations behind and can match the 5960X and come close to the 6900K with only a 300mhz/100mhz advantage that's still impressive for a 2013 Ivy Bridge-EP. It's a shame CPU-Z removed older processors from the benchmarks that used to be in the older versions.
     
    #16
  17. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    Cinebench R15 (mult/single core)
    E5-2667 v2 - 1294 / 141
    E5-2687W v2 - 1227 / 141
    I7-5960X - 1300 / 147
    I7-6900K - 1476 / 179
    Dual X5650 - 1279 / 93

    The Cinebench score for the 6900K shows more of a difference than the CPUZ bench, but we are still under 15% difference over all those generations. The E5-2667 V2 beats the Westmere-EP by a larger margin than the 6900K beats the 2667 V2.
     
    #17
    jfeldt likes this.
  18. Nanotech

    Nanotech Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    99
    Interesting result for the 2687W V2 multi-threaded Cinebench performance. I would think that the 2687W V2 would be the faster processor but it's slower by 67 points in Cinebench R15 multi-score. Considering both turbo to 4.0Ghz on 1/2 cores I wonder why the 2667 V2 is better?
     
    #18
  19. T_Minus

    T_Minus Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    6,782
    Likes Received:
    1,457
    Curious, with this small variations in performance why do you guys care?

    Are you doing something that matters?

    Or, more of just "I have the fastest" ?

    Genuinely curious :) as I have lots of not needed performance ;) ;)
     
    #19
    realtomatoes and Evan like this.
  20. TType85

    TType85 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    167
    I think the results I found were a bit low. Anandtech article below puts it dead on with the 2667 v2 where it should be.

    Intel Xeon E5-2687W v3 and E5-2650 v3 Review: Haswell-EP with 10 Cores
     
    #20
Similar Threads: Difference generations
Forum Title Date
Processors and Motherboards Performance difference between Gold 5218, 6230 and 6248 Sep 14, 2019
Processors and Motherboards E5-26xx (v3 / v4) ... vs. LGA3647 Silver CPUs ... is there any (much) of a difference? Feb 5, 2019
Processors and Motherboards Single vs Dual CPU performance differences? Jul 21, 2018
Processors and Motherboards Difference between A1SRi-2758F and A1SAi-2750F? Oct 3, 2017
Processors and Motherboards e5-2686 v3 cpu differences Aug 14, 2017

Share This Page