EPYC Milan on Supermicro H11 board?

Spartus

Active Member
Mar 28, 2012
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Toronto, Canada
Hi Everyone. Any idea if Milan does or will work on H11DSi? I ask because that board and it's variants are my go-to, but there is no H12 generation version.
 

NablaSquaredG

Active Member
Aug 17, 2020
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Very unlikely.

I was told by Supermicro last year that the H12DSi is supposed to be launched in January 2021. Considering that we now have late March, it can't be too long until they launch it.
 

vincococka

New Member
Sep 29, 2019
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Slovakia
We will see - I asked them if there is support for Milan 7003 on H11 series and support replied that currently no.
But maybe - who knows - they will update Agesa in BIOS in v2.0 series and we'll be able to install and use Milan in H11.

Other vendors got it done - take a look at ASRock or Gigabyte or Tyan - they even released new BIOSes for boards with 16MB flash .. nice and KUDOZ to them.
And then we have our server / datacenter player Supermicro which seems like it is maybe trying to force us to buy new boards - better bussiness numbers in the end of the year :).

So next time we'll be buyin' new platform we have to consider and watch for support for previous products how vendor behaved.
 

101

Member
Apr 30, 2018
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Socket SP3 upgrade compatibility has been a complete farce.
There is no socket SP3 motherboard/platform originally qualified for 7001 (Naples) series parts that accepts 7002 (Rome) parts
There is no socket SP3 motherboard/platform originally qualified for 7002 (Rome) series parts that accepts 7003 (Milan) parts
This has been and continues to be a BIOS footprint size/ROM compatibility issue without any actual public data, but it significantly hurts AMD near and longer term.
There has never been an SP3 upgrade path, regardless of what you read in the marketing materials.
 

hmw

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Apr 29, 2019
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Socket SP3 upgrade compatibility has been a complete farce.
There is no socket SP3 motherboard/platform originally qualified for 7001 (Naples) series parts that accepts 7002 (Rome) parts
There is no socket SP3 motherboard/platform originally qualified for 7002 (Rome) series parts that accepts 7003 (Milan) parts
This has been and continues to be a BIOS footprint size/ROM compatibility issue without any actual public data, but it significantly hurts AMD near and longer term.
There has never been an SP3 upgrade path, regardless of what you read in the marketing materials.
Are you trolling? If not - check out https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/romed6u-2l2t-naples-support.32000/post-299703
 

101

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Apr 30, 2018
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I have a pile of Rome only boards you are welcome to buy at a discount.
 

The_Phew

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Apr 2, 2021
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FWIW, well-known server/workstation builder Broadberry is configuring ATX workstations with the H11DSi motherboard and Milan processors.

There are three possibilities:
1. Broadberry knows that Supermicro will soon release a version 3.0 and/or BIOS update for version 2.0 of this board that supports Milan
2. Broadberry knows that Supermicro will soon release an H12DSi, but they are under NDA so they can't list that model in their configurator
3. Broadberry doesn't know anything, and are offering a combo that doesn't actually work (wouldn't be the first time a system builder did that)

I find it very odd that none of the custom HPC workstation builders (that I've found) are offering the Gigabyte MZ72-HB0 in their dual EPYC ATX machines, given that it supports PCIE 4.0 and Milan. Titan Computers even did a blog post about how the Gigabyte was "Blowing their socks off", yet they ceased offering it as an option in their dual EPYC ATX workstation (W375), solely offering the H11DSi to this day. I wonder if it's an issue of availability, compatibility, or reliability?
 
Last edited:

zir_blazer

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Dec 5, 2016
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I have a pile of Rome only boards you are welcome to buy at a discount.
You may want to blame the Motherboard vendor or OEM instead of the AMD platform itself. Support for new things doesn't magically trickle down from AMD to end users, they go though Firmware developers first.

By the way, which vendor it is, so we know who we have to avoid?
 
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101

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Apr 30, 2018
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Gigabyte is the obvious OEM here:

MZ31-AR0 rev 1.0 Naples only, no upgrade path Rome, flash rom of MX25L12873F
MZ31-AR0 rev 2.0 Naples and Rome parts some limitations due to BIOS ROM size, flash rom changed from MX25L12873F to MX25L25633F
MZ32-AR0 rev 1.0 Naples and Rome only up to TDP of 240W, flash rom of MX25L25633F
MZ32-AR0 rev 3.0 Rome and Milan only, maybe 280W TDP? I don't even care what the flash parts are because I will never purchase one.

Point being the revised versions of both boards weren't created until AFTER each launch. This is what no upgrade path looks like.

Also from a platform perspective, if you have a Gigabyte R272-Z32 (rev. A00) you are also screwed, no Milan, because same MZ32-AR0 rev 1.0 motherboard internally, with no BIOS path.

Consider every board/server listed is SP3, and the only considerable difference from an end user standpoint is flash chip size.
This is exactly the problem. Until AMD and vendors provide stable platforms (FOR YEARS), their performance advantage doesn't even matter.

This is why SP3 has been a joke, regardless of the marketing bullshit.

The marketing will now push for SP4, and DDR5. You didn't even care about the last gen, nor should you have.
 

The_Phew

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Apr 2, 2021
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Buying a motherboard isn't a marriage; used/one-generation-old multi-proc server boards seem to sell for 60-70% of their new cost. We're talking about a ~$700 motherboard that usually has $5k+ worth of processors plugged in to it. If you want the latest+greatest, you'll be taking a bath to the tune of $1,000+ to upgrade to the latest CPUs anyway (most usage cases for these boards are 32+ core chips). What's another ~$200 on top of that to upgrade your motherboard too?

This isn't the desktop market where your motherboard might cost $200 and your CPU $400, so being able to upgrade CPUs on the same motherboard is a big cost savings. For dual-processor server boards, the CPUs (and usually memory) make up the bulk of the cost.

We live in a world where you can stuff 128 fast cores into one ATX case; this much computing power occupied a full rack and six figure+ cost not that long ago. And we're going to complain that we have to upgrade motherboards when we upgrade CPUs?
 

alex_stief

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May 31, 2016
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Of course, there are many ways to rationalize it if you try hard enough.
But the point is: it is completely unnecessary from a technical point of view. So the reason I have to buy a new board -despite AMD making promises about supporting the socket for several generations- is either incompetence or a cashgrab from board vendors. And I don't have to like that.
 
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gsrcrxsi

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Dec 12, 2018
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There is no socket SP3 motherboard/platform originally qualified for 7001 (Naples) series parts that accepts 7002 (Rome) parts
There is no socket SP3 motherboard/platform originally qualified for 7002 (Rome) series parts that accepts 7003 (Milan) parts
while I agree with you about motherboard manufacturers limiting the upgrade path (particularly with Milan), this bit about no upgrade path from 7001->7002, or 7002->7003 isn't true. there are a handful of boards that were "unlocked" for Rome/Milan by simply updating the BIOS.

One example is the Asrock Rack EPYCD8. ASRock Rack > EPYCD8
originally spec'd for 7001, BIOS update allows dropping in 7002 Rome chips

but Asrock has determined that they have been nice enough. they won't unlock this board for Milan. you need the ROME series boards to be "allowed" to run Milan.

Asrock meets your second point with the ROMED8-2T (and other ROME series boards from them). all originally spec'd for 7002, and allow a drop in for 7003 Milan with a BIOS update.

but it's stupid that one board gets locked out of Milan for no reason other than corporate greed (planned obsolescence). there's no technical reason that Milan can't work on the EPYCD8 that necessitates the ROMED8 board (they both work with the middleground 7002 series, have the same socket and memory capabilities, etc). The Asrock CSR I dealt with called it a "company policy".
 

The_Phew

New Member
Apr 2, 2021
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I understand making business-driven decisions, but SuperMicro isn't even doing that. They don't even have an EATX 2P board available to sell that supports Milan (or PCIE 4.0 for that matter), so it's not like they are making any money by not supporting Milan on the H11DSi (if that is indeed their long-term plan). It's just driving customers to competitors if they want to upgrade to Milan in a non-proprietary system.

No one addressed my comments in post #8, but there are two great mysteries right now:
-How/why is Broadberry selling servers equipped with the H11DSi and Milan CPUs?
-Why are no system builders (that I know of) selling EATX 2P servers with the Gigabyte MZ72-HB0 (which seems superior on paper, supporting Milan and PICE 4.0), instead mostly opting the for aged SuperMicro board with no (stated) Milan support and no PCIE 4.0?
 

jpmomo

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Aug 12, 2018
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I have a tyan 2P server that supports both 7002/7003. they also sell just the mb if needed. This server checks more boxes than anything I could find including the hp and dells of the world. ocp 3 with pci gen 4 support. 2 x m.2 pci gen 4. multiple pci gen 4 x16 slots. nvme hba standard (it might cost the same amount for this whole server to get an hp dl385 gen10 plus to support the same nvme drives!) dual 1600w platinum psus, dual onboard 10G nics, etc. they also came out with the milan bios the same day as amd officially released it (and even before if you asked nicely!)
 
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gsrcrxsi

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Dec 12, 2018
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I have a tyan 2P server that supports both 7002/7003. they also sell just the mb if needed. This server checks more boxes than anything I could find including the hp and dells of the world. ocp 3 with pci gen 4 support. 2 x m.2 pci gen 4. multiple pci gen 4 x16 slots. nvme hba standard (it might cost the same amount for this whole server to get an hp dl385 gen10 plus to support the same nvme drives!) dual 1600w platinum psus, dual onboard 10G nics, etc. they also came out with the milan bios the same day as amd officially released it (and even before if you asked nicely!)
Model?
 

jpmomo

Active Member
Aug 12, 2018
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Tyan Transport HX TS75B8252 (B8252T75V8E4HR-2T)
TYAN S8253 (S8253GM4NE-2T)
I have the barebones system and a couple of the 1p motherboards.
 
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lopgok

Active Member
Aug 14, 2017
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I contacted Supermicro asking about Milan support for my H11SSL.
Here is their reply (from Apr :12 2021)

After checking with PM, unfortunately, we don't have plan to update the BIOS of the H11SSL to support Milan.
Sorry for the inconvenience!

Best Regards,
MH


Clearly not the answer I was hoping for. So I can update my Rome 16 core one day, but it will have to be a higher core Rome. I was hoping to update to a Milan processor.

:-(