EPYC 7351P mixed server/desktop duty

[EeyoreDK]

Hi

I am looking into replacing my aging Xeon E3 server that runs Hyper-V Server with various VM's (pfSense, Plex etc.). At the same time I want to "eliminate" my i7 desktop and use the new server for both, running Windows Server 2016.

I was originally looking into a Ryzen 1800X or Threadripper 1950X, but then I got to thinking about EPYC 7351P. It is basically the same price as a 1950X, but outperforms it in mining, which I will use to pay for some of the investment. My question is, how will the 7351P perform as a desktop, even with some occasional gaming on a GTX 1080?

I know the server/desktop setup is not best pratice, but I am not running critical VM's on it.

 

[Patrick]

@EeyoreDK - feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but I am using a TR 1950X as my main desktop workstation. Having 4 NUMA nodes on a desktop is not a good idea, and the EPYC 7351P has low single-threaded speeds. Both of those you will notice. You will also want to use at least 8 DIMMs with EPYC v. 4 DIMMs with TR which adds cost, especially at lower RAM totals.

If you need over 128GB RAM, then that is a decent reason to switch.

The other option if you want to get creative is an Intel Xeon E5-2600 system. There you can get single thread speeds between the TR and 7351P. You can still get 8x DDR4 channels. Your cost per core is also much lower on used hardware versus new so you will end up with more cores and faster mining at a lower up front cost.

 

[alex_stief]

Can confirm, Epyc 7351P is not a CPU for Gaming. In the best case you will get the performance of a Ryzen 5 with lower clock speeds.
Dual Xeon E5-2667 v2 could be a good compromise while also saving a few bucks, especially if you need much RAM.

 

[EeyoreDK]

@Patrick - Thanks for the info, I did not even consider the NUMA node problem for desktop use. Unfortunately the marked for used server equipment is small in Denmark, which means prices are high. A used dual E5 setup will cost me more than a new 7351P setup.

@alex_stief - Thanks, that was what I was afraid of.

I will have to rethink this. Perhaps buying a lower power 1700X or 1800X and forget about the mining will be the best solution. Power is expensive in Denmark (0,38$ per kWh). Would be nice with more PCIe lanes though.

 

[Aluminum]

Go threadripper, the idle isn't much more than a ryzen 7 but the power is there when you need it. 2x16, 2x8 and 3x4(m2) on every TR board so far is a lot more useful lanes than r7 (x16+m2) or 115x (x16+chipset choked lanes) systems. Cheaper than 2066 platform which was neutered this generation anyways.

8 dimms (quad channel), ecc and overclocking on the ram too, zen fabric seems to love ram speed even though its hard to get it up there without samsung chips.

Dunno about your prices, but here the entry bar is not a lot higher, a 1900x + TR board is only ~$250 above a r7 + nice am4 board at the local shop. I <3 microcenter, even 1950x is $200 under msrp. All ram is stupid expensive but I buy samsung ecc for both platforms, its actually cheaper than the overclocker stuff right now.

 

[EeyoreDK]

@Aluminum - The tests I have seen has the 1950x ideling at almost twice the power as the 1800x (95W vs 50W). In Denmark the prices are:

1800x & MB - 630$
1900x & MB - 920$
1950x & MB - 1400$
7351P & MB - 1400$.

 

[Aluminum]

@Aluminum - The tests I have seen has the 1950x ideling at almost twice the power as the 1800x (95W vs 50W). In Denmark the prices are:

1800x & MB - 630$
1900x & MB - 920$
1950x & MB - 1400$
7351P & MB - 1400$.

1900x should drop that a bit, X399 is a really nice platform to grow on and worth the premium if you can put the lanes to real use. From your prices there is hardly any reason at all the consider the 7351P: same core count as 1950x, more cache, much worse max clock speeds. Games and anything else single-thread focused will suffer. The 8 dimm minimum config would be the most painful part of the build with current insane ram prices, TR is fully populated with just 4 and you can actually go past 2666 with good dimms. (tested 2933 and 3200 samsung ecc myself) Here ram pricing seems to have equalized as registered ecc, unbuffered ecc and "gamer" non-ecc all cost about the same...still too damn much lol.

At US pricing I would look at the 7401P as it is only ~$150 above 1950x msrp (although $350 above microcenter) which will handily beat the 1950x on thread-loving code that will really use all 24 cores. Finding single socket epyc boards is hard/impossible right now, but the H11SSL series seem to be the best for multi-use workstation builds, even fits in normal atx. (of the 128 available it uses 3x16, 3x8, lots of sata/sas built in)

I'm in your boat as I originally was going to build a 7401P linux workstation/fast NAS/etc to sit next to my current TR gaming/daily machine. Waiting for a motherboard killed it, getting another TR board covered almost everything I wanted anyways.

 

[MiniKnight]

Go TR.

Clock speed counts

 

[EeyoreDK]

@Aluminum - H11SSL series was also what I was looking at for motherboard. The 7401P & MB would cost 1860$ in Denmark. 1920x & MB would cost 1250$ and give me the same amount of L3 cache for mining as the 1950x, so performance should be roughly the same and still leave me with 8 threads for other stuff. RAM prices is really against an EPYC setup, so I think I will stick to my original plan of getting a TR.

 

[jerrytsao]

If you don't mind "low" core count, an X99 board is actually your best choice both in performance and price, let me break it down for you.

X99+E5-1680 v3: the most balanced solution when you want sufficient Single-Thread Performance/Core Count/RAM/Price, E5-1680 v3 can be easily overclocked to 4.5G+, and X99 is a hidden gem that probably 99% of the PC Master Race did not realize or even know - the only platform you can run 128GB (2Ranks B-die RDIMM 32GB*4) or 256GB (2Ranks B-die RDIMM 32GB*8) at DDR4-3200 (depends on the maximum RAM supported by your board). Let me repeat, we are not talking about the regular 8GB/16GB non-ECC UDIMM or even the totally-not-worth-the-price ECC UDIMM, it is the freaking 128/256GB RDIMM in 3200

X99+6950X: two more cores, easily overclocked to 4.2G+, less memory support (128GB Max for current 8Gb die) but higher frequency (DDR4-3333~3400), the last generation of soldered Intel CPU

X99+E5-26xx v3/v4 18-22C: extra cores, less balanced, still performs well and runs cooler, but with that amount of cores you may wanna choose TR-1950X and easily overclock it to 4G+/DDR4-3600 to gain more CPU Performance and Memory Bandwidth

 

[alex_stief]

I hardly think that you can get E5-1680v3 for a reasonable price in the EU. I tried.
An 8-core I7-7820x only costs around 520€ here. So I don't think this Xeon CPU is a price/performance recommendation.

 

[jerrytsao]

I hardly think that you can get E5-1680v3 for a reasonable price in the EU. I tried.
An 8-core I7-7820x only costs around 520€ here. So I don't think this Xeon CPU is a price/performance recommendation.

You could always try eBay tho...

 

[alex_stief]

Do you really think I did not look on ebay?

 

[Oddworld]

If you don't mind "low" core count, an X99 board is actually your best choice both in performance and price, let me break it down for you.

X99+E5-1680 v3: the most balanced solution when you want sufficient Single-Thread Performance/Core Count/RAM/Price, E5-1680 v3 can be easily overclocked to 4.5G+, and X99 is a hidden gem that probably 99% of the PC Master Race did not realize or even know - the only platform you can run 128GB (2Ranks B-die RDIMM 32GB*4) or 256GB (2Ranks B-die RDIMM 32GB*8) at DDR4-3200 (depends on the maximum RAM supported by your board). Let me repeat, we are not talking about the regular 8GB/16GB non-ECC UDIMM or even the totally-not-worth-the-price ECC UDIMM, it is the freaking 128/256GB RDIMM in 3200

X99+6950X: two more cores, easily overclocked to 4.2G+, less memory support (128GB Max for current 8Gb die) but higher frequency (DDR4-3333~3400), the last generation of soldered Intel CPU

X99+E5-26xx v3/v4 18-22C: extra cores, less balanced, still performs well and runs cooler, but with that amount of cores you may wanna choose TR-1950X and easily overclock it to 4G+/DDR4-3600 to gain more CPU Performance and Memory Bandwidth

Which X99 mobo do you recommend? ASrock Taichii? ASrock extreme 4?

 

[EeyoreDK]

In general used server hardware is much more expensive in EU than US, especially in Denmark . The price difference is so small that buying latest gen with warranty is often a better choice than older gen without warranty.

 

[EffrafaxOfWug]

I've been very happy with my ASRock X99-WS (using it with an E5 1650v3 myself). The 1680v3 seems ruinously expensive however so not really sure what the advantage of X99 is when the Xeon-W seems to be about the same prices as the haswell-E's.

Personally if I was building my workstation today I'd almost certainly go threadripper. Eight 3.8GHz cores for under £400 is a steal.