CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

[Foxandxss]

Hello, I am new here.

I am reading through this thread, still on page 17 but I plan to read it all.

I just bought the CWWK n305 with the M2 adapter (I don't plan to use it for now, but was like $15 extra dollars and could be handy).

My plan is to use it with proxmox and OPNsense like this:

ETH0: wan
ETH1: LAN (to my computer)
ETH2: LAN (to ax3600 AP)
ETH3: Failsafe for proxmox

The reason I am not connecting my computer to the AP is because the WAN is next to my computer and there is a single cable to the AP so I won't be able to connect back my computer from it).

I am a software dev and I dabble with devops a bit. I plan to have at least one extra VM with docker on it and have a few apps of my own, pihole, ... Nothing too fancy. And another VM where I can play with firewalls, configurations and other many things.

At least for that, I don't think my system will struggle.

Would this run KASM for example? That would be nice. I guess a VM with linux desktop would be fine.

----

On the other hand, I have a question. Perhaps is more for another topic but I am happy with a "yes or no" kind of answer. If my ax3600 is the one that will have wifi and 99% of the physical devices (oven, phones,IoT, ...). If I want to create VLans, I need to do it there and not in OPNsense, right?

Thanks!

PS: I plan to add 32GB of ram and I guess just 1TB of samsung 980PRO
PS2: I remember more things I wanted to say. I have a Synology connected also. I wanted a homelab with TrueNAS but since this won't be running TrueNAS I might just buy a better synology in the future.

 

[AnthonyUK]

On the other hand, I have a question. Perhaps is more for another topic but I am happy with a "yes or no" kind of answer. If my ax3600 is the one that will have wifi and 99% of the physical devices (oven, phones,IoT, ...). If I want to create VLans, I need to do it there and not in OPNsense, right?

I create the VLANs in OPNSense. If you want an extra LAN and completely segregate you can also do this but it isn't virtual
I have my LAN and a VLAN with an SSID on each with OPNSense providing DHCP for both.
It is pretty easy on Unifi at least to do this.

I might just buy a better synology in the future.

What is up with the one you have? Unless it isn't able to receive security updates or saturate its network connection then it should suffice no?

 

[Foxandxss]

I create the VLANs in OPNSense. If you want an extra LAN and completely segregate you can also do this but it isn't virtual
I have my LAN and a VLAN with an SSID on each with OPNSense providing DHCP for both.
It is pretty easy on Unifi at least to do this.


What is up with the one you have? Unless it isn't able to receive security updates or saturate its network connection then it should suffice no?

Seems like I need to read and learn more about VLANs. At the end of the day, this is also for me to learn.

I might not do any VLAN. I wanted it for IoT. On the other hand, I don't think my AP supports multi-ssid.

I will probably snapshot the VM and try many different things.

About my synology. It is from 2016, bit slow (DSM 7.1.1 from april 2023). It does saturate my network if I have many torrents shared.

------

I am still reading this thread. I hope my VMs won't kill my OPNsense VM. I guess I can set resources priorities. $500 (machine, ram and disk) is expensive for a router

 

[planetf1]

No unit purchased yet, familiar with networking/linux/kvm though not opnsense, proxmox or this HW. I've also read the entire thread....


My current config:

In my living room
- Nokia ONT (BT Openreach/hands off/ethernet)
- connected to Fritz7530 router (no wifi, just a router)
- eero 6E wifi AP connected to router (no routing, it's just a 6E AP)
- 1 x cat 6e up to patch panel (upstairs) - multiple switches but all dumb (could change though)
- various other devices on wifi& hardwired, including two pi's currently running DNS (ctrld) & another AP (wifi 5)

I am looking to replace the router with a more flexible box - ie one of these n100 units.

My connection is currently 500/70 (pppoe) , could be 1000/1000, and it's quite likely I may get option to go to 2500/2500, so I'm 'planning' for 2 Gbps throughput capability

Ideally the eero should stay in the same room. Running only opnsense this is easy. 1 port to ONT, 1 to wifi ap, 1 to patch panel. Can be virtualized or not.

But one attraction of these devices is to consolidate other workload -particularly networking related. So for example DNS. That could still be done bare metal as it's part of opnsense/installed on FreeBSD. But what if want to run something linux specific. Maybe a web proxy (HAproxy) or a simple web server. I start to get to the point where virtualization makes sense

In that case, how do my port limitations stack up? I would have a port free on the unit, but no connectivity to the patch panel.
-> Q1: So does that rule out dedicated pass-through and force me to use virtualized NICs?

Logically I would move the n100 device to the patch area. But with ONT in the same place as ideal router location, I'm out of wires without trailing across room and/or drilling ...
-> Q2 : could I do this if I went with running opnsense under virtualization - I presume I could?

At a push I could look at other locations for the eero wifi AP...

Finally - latency. I see virtually no mention of network latency here. As a baseline my LAN latency is ~0.3ms between devices, and to the major exchanges around 4-6ms. The fritz is quite good - as a comparison the eero adds 1-2 ms and much more jitter. I'm hoping to get as good, if not better latency, but am concerned maybe a move will actually make latency worse?

I'm wondering how these units might perform - noting also that they have no HW switch
-Q3: How does local lan latency look for a) VirtIO b) bare metal with offloading
-Q4: How about external routing (I presume the same)

Thanks!

 

[planetf1]

It seems these price-point NICs don't support SR-IOV which would be idea for good latency with virtualization. So I guess we're talking using virtio (specifically with vhost-net) ?

Another question - is whether using a linux based router (virtualized) is better than freebsd?

 

[Foxing_Demon]

Just wanted to elaborate on this post as I'm getting quite a few DM's with questions.

First of all, make 10000% sure you have the same board!!! All these board are a lot alike but you need the same original BIOS for this to work.

Indicators to check:

In BIOS
Project Version BK-1264NP Ver 1.5
Build Date 09/28/2023 17:23:35
Version 2.22.1287

View attachment 33404View attachment 33405

The board has two simcard slots and on the backside is a sticker BK-1264NP-4L-45G********

View attachment 33402View attachment 33403

To flash it you can use the ISO from another BIOS and replace the BIN file with this one.
The CWWK ISO for N100 for example

Download the ISO
Extract it to a USB drive with Rufus or BalenaEtcher
Replace the file CW-N100-V2-5M2-230927.bin with the bios.rom from my link
Make sure the replaced file is also named CW-N100-V2-5M2-230927.bin
Edit the file 1.nsh and add -bios to the fpt line
Boot from the USB

Here is a link to the original extracted BIOS from this board (without any modifications)

Be careful and make 10000% sure you have the same board. I hate to see anyone brick their device!!!

Yeah so I think I managed to brick mine as I tried to flash without the -bios parameter... Is that .bin file on the ISO one that could be flashed with a hardware flasher as I didn't take a backup first of course
I have a friend who can flash it for me but I need a working full set, not just the bios region.

 

[m8kbv]

Yeah so I think I managed to brick mine as I tried to flash without the -bios parameter... Is that .bin file on the ISO one that could be flashed with a hardware flasher as I didn't take a backup first of course
I have a friend who can flash it for me but I need a working full set, not just the bios region.

I have the same case as you, a friend from the forum gave me his bios (which I will share with you soon, I have the key so he won't be offended )
Edit:
fulldump.bin @thys BIOS:

fulldump.bin

drive.google.com

For g30w n100
I flashed via ch341a and asprogrammer. Unfortunately, after uploading, NVME and i226 network ports do not work (i226 chip not showing in bios/system)

 

[Foxing_Demon]

I have the same case as you, a friend from the forum gave me his bios (which I will share with you soon, I have the key so he won't be offended )
Edit:
fulldump.bin @thys BIOS:

fulldump.bin

drive.google.com

For g30w n100
I flashed via ch341a and asprogrammer. Unfortunately, after uploading, NVME and i226 network ports do not work (i226 chip not showing in bios/system)

Thank you. Sorry to hear it's not fully working
I'll report back how mine works after my friend takes a look at it.

 

[m8kbv]

OK, I'll wait for the information.
According to my friend, the attached bios has a different meregion than mine originally (it's just a theory) and that's why it doesn't work properly. we would need more bios.bin from motherboards, maybe one bios.bin would be more compatible with my/our motherboard (meregion would be compatible).

 

[atomek]

How to completely disable Intel AMT/ME on CWWK box? The latest box with I226 NICs has unfixable problem with DHCP, same as reported in some threads:

WAN DHCP not working with Intel i22x-V 2.5Gb (kernel 5.15 build) · Issue #2548 · Ysurac/openmptcprouter

Expected Behavior My hardware is an x86_64 box with 4 physical network interfaces. eth0 (lan) is connected to the my internal switch and is working and hosting DHCP services for the lan on the 192....

github.com

DHCP on WAN doesn't refresh IP, only reboot helps

Hello Beautiful Community! I have really strange problem. I have pfSense connected to ISP ISP (modem/bridge mode) (WAN - DHCP) pfSense (LAN) LAN The pfSen...

forum.netgate.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/PFSENSE/comments/16m84a1

Can not get DHCP leases on new intel I225-LM based machine

Hello all, I am new to pfsense and I am tearing my hair out trying to debug an issue on a new machine / new install. I can't get any clients to get a DHCP l...

forum.netgate.com

 

[audelair]

I've been debating picking up one of these boxes as I have a 4 year old Qotom that has served me well and I'd love to upgrade and keep my Qotom as a spare.

However, I've been also eyeing this Mini-ITX option: Get Compact and Powerful with ALN10 Mini ITX Board

These Maxtang ALN10 motherboards have 2 Intel i226 2.5GbE ports. The board costs $180 with no RAM or Storage. I already have a spare Mini-ITX case, and it's nice to have some cooling flexibility with this motherboard. For instance, the Silverstone case I have can run a 120mm or 140mm case fan in the front that could help cool the unit.

Anyone look into this or heard of Maxtang? I'm not sure how reputable it is and I can imagine support and returns would be a pain if this doesn't work out.

 

[Stovar]

I've been debating picking up one of these boxes as I have a 4 year old Qotom that has served me well and I'd love to upgrade and keep my Qotom as a spare.

However, I've been also eyeing this Mini-ITX option: Get Compact and Powerful with ALN10 Mini ITX Board

These Maxtang ALN10 motherboards have 2 Intel i226 2.5GbE ports. The board costs $180 with no RAM or Storage. I already have a spare Mini-ITX case, and it's nice to have some cooling flexibility with this motherboard. For instance, the Silverstone case I have can run a 120mm or 140mm case fan in the front that could help cool the unit.

Anyone look into this or heard of Maxtang? I'm not sure how reputable it is and I can imagine support and returns would be a pain if this doesn't work out.

I would take a look at the monster nas boards like these and these, from a quick glance more connectivity and cheaper.

 

[Tzvia]

I've been debating picking up one of these boxes as I have a 4 year old Qotom that has served me well and I'd love to upgrade and keep my Qotom as a spare.

However, I've been also eyeing this Mini-ITX option: Get Compact and Powerful with ALN10 Mini ITX Board

These Maxtang ALN10 motherboards have 2 Intel i226 2.5GbE ports. The board costs $180 with no RAM or Storage. I already have a spare Mini-ITX case, and it's nice to have some cooling flexibility with this motherboard. For instance, the Silverstone case I have can run a 120mm or 140mm case fan in the front that could help cool the unit.

Anyone look into this or heard of Maxtang? I'm not sure how reputable it is and I can imagine support and returns would be a pain if this doesn't work out.

Haven't heard of Maxtang, been looking at the CWWK N305 board, but I'm waiting to see if they come out with an i5 NAS board... to replace my 7 yo Supermicro ITX 1541 SOC board which works well but is dated. The Maxtang only has 2 NICs which is limiting... call me old fashioned, but I would want at least 4 if using it for any virtualization... Heck, I am using 5 of the 6 on my CWWK Pentium 8505 'soft router' for VLANS, running PFSense on bare metal. The big plus of going the motherboard route is room for hard drives IMO. Choose a case and drives for a NAS build or in my case, spinners to backup my VMs to. Needing those SATA ports and room in a case is what is stopping me from buying another 'soft router'. So I watch and I wait...

I too have one of those old Qotom boxes, an Kaby Lake i5 with 6 gig ports, that I ran PFSense on for years before getting the 8505... It has Windows 11 on it now, a very solid PC. Hope the CWWK holds up as well.

 

[Schmiddi]

Hey folks,
great forum and great thread. I was lurking some time, mainly read about this quad topton units and the 6port 13th gen.
I came to the conclusion that an 4port N305 unit will be enough for my needs.
Planing to install
Proxmox
- OPNSense + AdGuard Plugin
- WireGuard VPN
- Guacamole
- HomeAssistant
- Omada Controller
- Teslamate
If its beefy enough maybe running a Satisfactory, Valheim server on it here and then for me and my friends.

I ordered directly from cwwk to Germany.
Im still reading this thread, maybe I'll find my question answered on a few pages, but I'll ask you within this post too.
Any recommendation on 32GB RAM and good/trustfully power supply?

 

[audelair]

I would take a look at the monster nas boards like these and these, from a quick glance more connectivity and cheaper.

Haven't heard of Maxtang, been looking at the CWWK N305 board, but I'm waiting to see if they come out with an i5 NAS board... to replace my 7 yo Supermicro ITX 1541 SOC board which works well but is dated. The Maxtang only has 2 NICs which is limiting... call me old fashioned, but I would want at least 4 if using it for any virtualization... Heck, I am using 5 of the 6 on my CWWK Pentium 8505 'soft router' for VLANS, running PFSense on bare metal. The big plus of going the motherboard route is room for hard drives IMO. Choose a case and drives for a NAS build or in my case, spinners to backup my VMs to. Needing those SATA ports and room in a case is what is stopping me from buying another 'soft router'. So I watch and I wait...

I too have one of those old Qotom boxes, an Kaby Lake i5 with 6 gig ports, that I ran PFSense on for years before getting the 8505... It has Windows 11 on it now, a very solid PC. Hope the CWWK holds up as well.

Oh interesting, thanks for the comments! For some reason I didn't even know CWWK had those motherboards, and I certainly didn't think they'd have Mini-ITX boards. It's also interesting to consider getting one of these without a cooler so I have ultimate flexibility. I might order one of these!

 

[Foxandxss]

I am still reading but I would like to know if a 980 pro or 990pro with heatsink is something I can fit on the n305. It is not a heatsink on top but covers the entire nvme.

Does the CWWK boxes comes with a PWM connector for fan? And in case I need one, 40x40 or 80x80? Does it fit with nvme with heatsink?

 

[Becks0815]

Oh interesting, thanks for the comments! For some reason I didn't even know CWWK had those motherboards, and I certainly didn't think they'd have Mini-ITX boards. It's also interesting to consider getting one of these without a cooler so I have ultimate flexibility. I might order one of these!

I would double check what I plan to do with the board (or the other). If you want to build a NAS, then 1 or 2 NICs are enough. One for the data, the second one for Proxmox, and then as much hard drive space as needed/possible for the systems, internal backups/snapshots, and then run virtual machines on it.

If you plan to use it as "all in one" system - Proxmox, running Opnsense/Pfsense/other Firewall, then you need three NICs (WAN, LAN, steering/Proxmox access). Either you pick the one with 4 NICs, or you use the other and add an USB-Ethernet Adapter for Proxmox.

In all cases I would check how many PCIe lanes are left for the drives, because the more PCIe splitter are added to achieve many SATA ports, the slower everything is. Considering that you typically run 1Gbit internal speed on the network, anything faster than 100 MB/Sec should be enough, even for the hosted systems.

Big advantage over the small boxes most here use is: more space/room for drives and cool air, plus standard cooling solutions. So that's another thing to consider.

To throw in a third option: ASRock N100DC-ITX - plug in a dual Intel NIC PCIe card and attach an external drive storage to the USB3.2 hub, then you also have a nice NAS. What's stopping me from doing this is is the high energy consumption. A lot of people complain about the limited Bios settings to lower power consumption, the board seems to idle around at 11-13W, while in my tests with the N100 I went down to 7W or even lower after BIOS tweaking. Maybe there was an update here, I didn't follow the news about Asus.

 

[Becks0815]

Any recommendation on 32GB RAM and good/trustfully power supply?

Leicke 60W, Amazon. Or Meanwell, if you want to order from Digikey instead. Pick one with 60W or more so you have some headroom for additional drives/machines.
32Gb Kingston 4800 MHz, works without issues ( https://www.digitec.ch/de/s1/produc...x-32gb-4800-mhz-ddr5-ram-so-dimm-ram-19753597 )

You also might want to order one of those Splitter boxes from Ali and attach the 12V line of the power supply to it, and the run multiple machines using a single power adapter. You need:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002011584072.html - a power splitter terminal box

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038333356.html - here you get the DC power adapters in two colors. Makes it easier to distinguish between 2.1 and 2.5mm inner diameter, and these adapters are easier to handle (no soldering required) and look more sturdy than the standard adapters where you have to solder the wires to thin metal parts. One of the soldered ones even failed after a while despite having good isolated lines. It got warm ad made a crackling noise...

Wires. I bought 16 AGW silicon cable for this purpose.

Recommended: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006245123030.html - a simple method to isolate cables. It also did a great job in fixing my keyboard hand rest where my cat punched some holes into it-

With this and two machines attached, you are always above the 10W combined power usage and in the range where all those power supplies show a high efficiency (86-88%), compared to 70% or less when running in the low power ranges of 5W-7W.

 

[Dostring]

Any recommendation on 32GB RAM and good/trustfully power supply?

I've ordered what Becks has - Kingston Fury 32 GB, 4800 Mhz, CL38. Works fine. Can't say the same about NVMe, WD 850X 1TB runs hot!

 

[Foxandxss]

I will buy the Kingston Fury 32GB 5600 CL40. It is just 3€ more than the 4800 version and a few users reported OK here.

Would something like this fit: Samsung 990 PRO with Heatsink | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Since it has a block underneath too.