CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

[Dostring]

I will buy the Kingston Fury 32GB 5600 CL40. It is just 3€ more than the 4800 version and a few users reported OK here.

According to N100 max memory speed you can't use the faster clock. And then CL38 would be faster than CL40 at the same clock.

 

[Foxandxss]

According to N100 max memory speed you can't use the faster clock. And then CL38 would be faster than CL40 at the same clock.

On the other hand, it says maximum 16gb and people uses 32 (I hope it actually uses 32 and don't error over 16). I guess that with speed you can use 5600 but won't pass 4800mhz.

I know there are users of the 5600mhz ones here but no idea if it is capped to 4800mhz or not.

 

[audelair]

I would double check what I plan to do with the board (or the other). If you want to build a NAS, then 1 or 2 NICs are enough. One for the data, the second one for Proxmox, and then as much hard drive space as needed/possible for the systems, internal backups/snapshots, and then run virtual machines on it.

If you plan to use it as "all in one" system - Proxmox, running Opnsense/Pfsense/other Firewall, then you need three NICs (WAN, LAN, steering/Proxmox access). Either you pick the one with 4 NICs, or you use the other and add an USB-Ethernet Adapter for Proxmox.

In all cases I would check how many PCIe lanes are left for the drives, because the more PCIe splitter are added to achieve many SATA ports, the slower everything is. Considering that you typically run 1Gbit internal speed on the network, anything faster than 100 MB/Sec should be enough, even for the hosted systems.

Big advantage over the small boxes most here use is: more space/room for drives and cool air, plus standard cooling solutions. So that's another thing to consider.

To throw in a third option: ASRock N100DC-ITX - plug in a dual Intel NIC PCIe card and attach an external drive storage to the USB3.2 hub, then you also have a nice NAS. What's stopping me from doing this is is the high energy consumption. A lot of people complain about the limited Bios settings to lower power consumption, the board seems to idle around at 11-13W, while in my tests with the N100 I went down to 7W or even lower after BIOS tweaking. Maybe there was an update here, I didn't follow the news about Asus.

Thanks for the comments. At the moment, I'd just run it as a baremetal Opnsense box (basically replacing my Qotom). I know it's a bit more expensive than getting one of the Mini-PC's, but I do like the flexibility of repurposing these motherboards, and I always have spare PC parts.

Those CWWK Mini-ITX have options with and without a cooler. Without a cooler, it says it is compatible with LGA115x socket coolers. However, I see this big copper block on it (no fins though). Any thoughts as to what that block is? Is a cooler supposed to be applied to that block or is that block actually capable of passively cooling the CPU? I might try to ask them about it!

 

[alaricljs]

Any thoughts as to what that block is? Is a cooler supposed to be applied to that block or is that block actually capable of passively cooling the CPU?

It's a shim to enable the application of a standard cooler to the non-desktop CPU. You just add thermal paste and a cooler compatible w/ 115x.

 

[Becks0815]

On the other hand, it says maximum 16gb and people uses 32 (I hope it actually uses 32 and don't error over 16). I guess that with speed you can use 5600 but won't pass 4800mhz.

32GB on the N100 works. My system is running now for 10 days without errors, after I managed to crash Proxmox/Opnsense by filling up the drive, resulting in an "io-error" which caused the VMs to stop working. Now I have resized the data partition to a smaller size, and everything is fine. I didn't know I can assign more total drive space to the VMs than I physically have. Lessons learned, however I would love a function in Proxmox which either warns me if I do this, or if it would offer a function to create a partition/virtual drive which fits 100% of the physical drive capacity.

 

[Foxandxss]

32GB on the N100 works. My system is running now for 10 days without errors, after I managed to crash Proxmox/Opnsense by filling up the drive, resulting in an "io-error" which caused the VMs to stop working. Now I have resized the data partition to a smaller size, and everything is fine. I didn't know I can assign more total drive space to the VMs than I physically have. Lessons learned, however I would love a function in Proxmox which either warns me if I do this, or if it would offer a function to create a partition/virtual drive which fits 100% of the physical drive capacity.

Yes, 32gb works but was more about 4800 vs 5600 (same price here in Spain) but no idea if the system would cap the speed.

So proxmox allows you to allocate more than you have? Good to know.

----

CWWK package has been returned to the sender. Seems like I still am a few days away from having mine.
EDIT: New tracking code but no response why

 

[planetf1]

Currently the cheaper (ie toptron) boxes on AiExpress have very shallow cooling fins - nothing like the three variants listed above, for example Pfsense Firewall Mini PC Intel N100 DDR4 4x Intel Ethernet i225/i226V 2.5G LAN 2x COM RS485 RS232 Soft Router Fanless IPC - AliExpress . Has anyone tried these? I'm concerned about cooling, even though most likely load will be low. Overally I found at least 6 variations with different combinations of usb ports, serial, wifi, cooling, #ports etc.

Being in the UK, it's also probably more reliable to either order from amazon (very limited choice, prices vary) or < £135 (as Aliexpress pays vat so no custom holdups, albeit at the required 20% cost addition). >£135 seems like a recipe for customs holdups and extra fees

 

[denovare]

Maybe a bit of my experiences as well. I purchased the 2-port X86-P5 with N100 for €140 at Amazon and received the V2 version. Installed 32GB DDR5 4800 (Corsair Vengeance CMSX32GX5M1A4800C40) and a 512GB NVME (Lexar NM620). The unit feels and looks sturdy and well made. Total cost roughly €240.

Running bare metal OPNsense with Zenarmor, Adguard, Suricata and Crowdsec and are able to fully utilize my 1000/1000 mbit connection. Temperatures idle at 45-50 degrees, load ~60 degrees. Very happy!

 

[askewpiste]

Just took delivery of the 6 port n100 barebones machine direct from cwwk to UK £159. I was expecting to pay import tax before delivery from RoyalMail, however it was delivered directly without asking for additional payment. I was debating ordering from AliExpress and keeping it under £135 to pay the vat upfront and to avoid any other charges but decided to order direct from CWWK. Not sure if others will be so lucky or if they actually prepaid the VAT and included this in what was charged to me.

Overall looks well put together, haven't bothered to take anything apart yet until I test the temperatures.

Now waiting for RAM and SSDs to arrive so I can test it out. It came with the Dajing ADP-60E2 PSU, what is the verdict on these? Any good or should I order a replacement? Thanks

 

[Foxandxss]

Sorry for all this questions before I get the machine, but I am reading a lot and there is one extra thing I don't understand.

I want to use my 4 cics as follow:

0 -> Proxmox fallback
1 -> WAN
2 -> My PC
3 -> Switch

As I understand this I will connect my ONT to WAN, my pc to 2 and then 3 to a switch. The reason I am doing this is because my computer and the switch are in separate rooms and there is only one cable to the other room. I can't connect my router to switch and my pc to switch.

For port `0` I understand that I want a physical connection to it in case OPNsense fails and I need a direct connection to Proxmox to fix my VM. AKA I would change my pc connection cable from 2 to 0 in case I need fixing.

To be clear (or clear to me) I will have 3 cables connected to the router and one empty that will be used in case I need fixing.

Now, I am trying to figure out, how can another VM inside proxmox (lxc, linux, windows, ...) can use the internet as if they were another machine connected to my network. I read that I need one NIC for VMs but I guess it is a virtual nic, right? Like a bridge from say `2` or `3` that I share with the VM. Am I right?

I just hope I didn't need a 5L machine.

In any case, Better I passthrough the NICs or just virtio? If the former, 1, 2, 3 or just 1?

Many questions but I am thankful.

 

[Becks0815]

Now, I am trying to figure out, how can another VM inside proxmox (lxc, linux, windows, ...) can use the internet as if they were another machine connected to my network.

Setup Proxmox and use one of the physical NICs for connecting it to LAN (in my case 192.168.1.0/24) I am using the fixed IP .22, so I can find and connect to it if Opnsense and DHCP/DNS fails. On top, create a virtual Linux bridge (vmbr1), but don't set any IP details on it.



Setup Opnsense and attach the virtual NIC, beside the two physical ones (in my case passthrought):


In Opnsense, set the IPs for LAN (192.168.1.1 in mycase - physical LAN NIC) and the virtual network (192.168.178.1 - vmbr1). Forget about The guest network, used in my case for guest. I use two VLANs for this, with the physical NIC being shared for both networks. I have the DHCP server of opnsense enabled on all local networks




Now create more virtual machines in Proxmox, use vmbr1 as network adapter and set dhcp in the network of the client. then it gets the IP from opnsense.




What you need to consider is that if you place your PC on a separate port, you will need two /24 networks, (e.g. .1 for general LAN and .2 for your PC), and in case of a failure manually assign an IP for your machine when you switch cables. there might be options to share a single network across two NICs of Opnsense, but I am no network specialist who can confirm this.

 

[alaricljs]

What you need to consider is that if you place your PC on a separate port, you will need two /24 networks, (e.g. .1 for general LAN and .2 for your PC), and in case of a failure manually assign an IP for your machine when you switch cables. there might be options to share a single network across two NICs of Opnsense, but I am no network specialist who can confirm this.

Can't he just add the PC nic to the LAN bridge ?

 

[Foxandxss]

Thank you Becks0815, always as helpful.

I didn't consider that if I attach my switch and pc in two different ports I would have two /24 networks. I supposed it worked as my current ISP router. Every port will just have an IP given by DHCP from the same /24 network.

I have some questions about your setup:

So vmbr0 is your last NIC (esp5s0) that you use at 192.168.1.22 to connect to proxmox in case of opnsense failure. Do you have to physically connect a cable there to acces it?

vmbr1 is a virtual bridge that is not "using" any real nic, right? So it is like a virtual bridge that is created in proxmox and shared between VMs and opnsense. And in your case you use it in a VLAN for your VMs.

Then the two passthrough are your WAN and LAN.

So if I understood correctly, one physical nic for .22 as a failsafe, another nic for WAN, another for LAN (so there is 3 used nics) and a virtual one to share your internet between VMs.

I guess I will need to do many tries and learn through trying.

Thank you.

EDIT: Now that I finished my $dayJob I read a bit more. To my understanding, I could do:

Nic-0: Proxmox
Nic-1: WAN PCI passthrough to OPNsense
Nic-2: My PC
Nic-3: Switch

Then I create a vmbr0 that both nic-2 and nic-3 will use and pass that to OPNsense as a LAN. So in theory both nics will be in the same network and if I use vmbr0 in other VMs, they will also be on that network.

I hope my theory is correct or at least in the vecinity heh.

 

[audelair]

Now waiting for RAM and SSDs to arrive so I can test it out. It came with the Dajing ADP-60E2 PSU, what is the verdict on these? Any good or should I order a replacement? Thanks

Those Dajing's have shipped with a lot of these Aliexpress Mini-PC's for many years now. I have a Qotom that has that exact same 60W brick that ran just fine for 3+ years, but started exhibiting a high pitched noise in the past year. I ended up replacing it with a Meanwell 120W brick (4-pin with 2.5 barrel adapter), more out of precaution than anything.

 

[askewpiste]

Those Dajing's have shipped with a lot of these Aliexpress Mini-PC's for many years now. I have a Qotom that has that exact same 60W brick that ran just fine for 3+ years, but started exhibiting a high pitched noise in the past year. I ended up replacing it with a Meanwell 120W brick (4-pin with 2.5 barrel adapter), more out of precaution than anything.

I will give it a go and see how long it lasts and if I have any stability issues. Hopefully it works just fine. Thanks

 

[Becks0815]

I supposed it worked as my current ISP router. Every port will just have an IP given by DHCP from the same /24 network.

I have some questions about your setup:

So vmbr0 is your last NIC (esp5s0) that you use at 192.168.1.22 to connect to proxmox in case of opnsense failure. Do you have to physically connect a cable there to acces it?

vmbr1 is a virtual bridge that is not "using" any real nic, right? So it is like a virtual bridge that is created in proxmox and shared between VMs and opnsense. And in your case you use it in a VLAN for your VMs.

Each NIC on the box requires an IP (typically x.x.x.1) and this IP needs to be set as gateway IP of the subnetwork, so with two NICs dedicated for LAN you will need two IPs.

VMBR0, VMBR1,... is the naming convention within Proxmox, and you can either link such a virtual with a real NIC, or just purely leave it virtual. VMBR0 is the first one and typically linked to one of the four physical NICs, and you plugin a PC (or a switch and a PC into the switch) to run the final steps of Proxmox setup and to steer Proxmox.
In my case the physical first NIC is the WAN interface, the second one the LAN, and either port #3 or #4 is for Proxmox setup/steering. This port and port #2 of the box are both plugged into a switch and share the same network (192.168.1.x/24), and my PC and the rest of the hardware is then plugged into the switch, too, and also use the 192.168.1.x/24 network.

VMBR1 - as said - is a pure virtual network bridge and not linked to any NIC. Still I can add it as hardware to opnesne (what I did), assign an IP to this new interface in opnsense (192.168.178.1), and then also use vmbr1 as network interface when setting up other virtual machines in Proxmox. All virtual machines get their IP from the DHCP server running in opnsense and are sitting on network 192.168.178.x/24.


What you could do to bring the PC into the same network of all other machines, is to buy a second switch (4-port should be enough), then plug NIC #1 into the WAN connection, #2 (LAN) into the switch, #3/#4 into the switch, too (Proxmox steering), plug your PC into this switch and use one of the remaining ports of the switch to build the connection to the switch in the other room.

 

[Foxandxss]

Each NIC on the box requires an IP (typically x.x.x.1) and this IP needs to be set as gateway IP of the subnetwork, so with two NICs dedicated for LAN you will need two IPs.

VMBR0, VMBR1,... is the naming convention within Proxmox, and you can either link such a virtual with a real NIC, or just purely leave it virtual. VMBR0 is the first one and typically linked to one of the four physical NICs, and you plugin a PC (or a switch and a PC into the switch) to run the final steps of Proxmox setup and to steer Proxmox.
In my case the physical first NIC is the WAN interface, the second one the LAN, and either port #3 or #4 is for Proxmox setup/steering. This port and port #2 of the box are both plugged into a switch and share the same network (192.168.1.x/24), and my PC and the rest of the hardware is then plugged into the switch, too, and also use the 192.168.1.x/24 network.

VMBR1 - as said - is a pure virtual network bridge and not linked to any NIC. Still I can add it as hardware to opnesne (what I did), assign an IP to this new interface in opnsense (192.168.178.1), and then also use vmbr1 as network interface when setting up other virtual machines in Proxmox. All virtual machines get their IP from the DHCP server running in opnsense and are sitting on network 192.168.178.x/24.


What you could do to bring the PC into the same network of all other machines, is to buy a second switch (4-port should be enough), then plug NIC #1 into the WAN connection, #2 (LAN) into the switch, #3/#4 into the switch, too (Proxmox steering), plug your PC into this switch and use one of the remaining ports of the switch to build the connection to the switch in the other room.

Thanks. I will play to see what I Can achieve. I can surely use wifi in my PC but I don't want that. Switches is one option but a 2.5gb one is 100€ and hurts heh

 

[Becks0815]

Can't he just add the PC nic to the LAN bridge ?

If he uses only a single switch, then he will require three cables. One from the router box (LAN interface) to the switch into the second room, then a cable going from the switch to the NIC for Proxmox steering (#3 or #4), and another cable from the switch to the PC.

The solution is just to bring in a second switch which is placed beside the opnsense box, plug in NIC#2 (LAN) and NIC#3 (Proxmox access) into the switch also plugin the PC into the switch and then connect switch #1 with the one in the other room.

 

[iball]

"Each NIC on the box requires an IP"

Yes but also no. Separate WAN and LAN ports passed-thru to a virtualized firewall do (WAN IP X.X.X.X & LAN IP x.x.x.6) as well as the dedicated Proxmox management port (LAN IP x.x.x.7), but the 4th port can be bridged to the Proxmox management port and thus doesn't require an IP address.

FYI, I have the 2.5GB Intel NIC in my PC plugged directly into port enp3s0 on my CWWK Proxmox firewall and it works just fine.
Port enp4s0 - the Proxmox Management port - is plugged into a LAN switch.

 

[tibbe]

What 4-pin fan connector does the motherboard use? I'd like to use my own fan but suspect I need to add a new connector to it.