CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

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minimos

New Member
Aug 23, 2023
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I've only used the Aliexpress chat.

From my research this is CWWK's storage, there are some BIOSes in there: 畅网官方网盘

The directory names are in Chinese though, but not much for the Alder Lake N-series, only the 4-port version update to support the SATA brackets. I could help translate when I have some time.

Use at your own risk.
Thanks once again.

I'll take a look at the link when I have a bit more time.

Interestingly, my BIOS version is the same as yours (I incorrectly stated a date of 31/05 above, its actually the 07/05 which I assume is in american format so is sometime in July, difficult sometimes to work out as I am in the UK :) ) but with a different date and some vendor info missing by the looks of it. I assume they use the date as a way of telling which is the latest rather than a consistent numbering system.

As I have a Kingnovy, this may indicate that their are differences in the firnware, although I can't see how that is cost effective, but then again it might be just that my N5L does not have it in BIOS. Makes picking a BIOS from the link a little more risky

1694629351215.png
 

rzzo

New Member
Sep 13, 2023
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Hi All,

Just got one of these cwwk 4port versions. I am new to this "roll your own" world. I have been building PC's for many years and write code / run cloud servers. Been waiting to get more serious about home security /central location (not cloud) storage, cams automation etc... At first I was just going to run pfsense and call it a day but then noticed all the other amazing things going on now like casaos and home automation.

My question in a nut shell is can I run a firewall(pfsense) and also run all the other stuff (casaos, plex, other containers, etc...) all from this one device? Or do I need to setup multiple devices? Currently I plan to run this as pfsense in-between a bridged modem and a my wired/wifi network (bridged erro's).

Are there any recommended resources out there or any good starting points? I have read a ton and watch a ton of videos but nothing seems to be doing everything from one box.

Thanks for the help!
 
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minimos

New Member
Aug 23, 2023
19
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3
Hi All,

Just got one of these cwwk 4port versions. I am new to this "roll your own" world. I have been building PC's for many years and write code / run cloud servers. Been waiting to get more serious about home security /central location (not cloud) storage, cams automation etc... At first I was just going to run pfsense and call it a day but then noticed all the other amzing things going on now like casaos and home automation.

My question in a nut shell is can I run a firewall(pfsense) and also run all the other stuff (casaos, plex, other containers, etc...) all from this one device? Or do I need to setup multiple devices? Currently I plan to run this as pfsense in-between a bridged modem and a my wired/wifi network (bridged erro's).

Are there any recommended resources out there or any good starting points? I have read a ton and watch a ton of videos but nothing seems to be doing everything from one box.

Thanks for the help!
Hi

Welcome.

I am quite new around here as well and have been on a similar journey in the last month.

You should be able to run multiple VM's on your device by virtualizing it I have ProxMox 8 installed on mine and run OpnSense in a VM along with an Omada controller running as an LXC container. I did also have AdGuard home setup but decided to use the plugin version in OpnSense to keep things nice and simple.

Everyone's needs are different, but my device when fully setup and moved to production this will become my router along with some management utils network side plugged into a modem just like your setup. (yes, the box uses the guest OpnSense VM as a router to get access to the internet, and it just works if setup correctly even after reboot or power out).

At the moment I have configured the WAN hanging off my existing router so they can coexist, and have slowly added switches, AP's etc to my new setup whilst work things through. I would say I am almost there, just finalizing my firewall rule setup etc before I make the switch.

Start small and work your way up is my advice, if you don't know Proxmox, spend sometime setting that up. It has been invaluable to me with snapshots to rollback if I make a settings change that broke something that I could not figure out how to rectify (there were lots of those moments but by comparing between snapshots I could usually diagnose the issues). Some will say don't complicate things with virtulisation but for me I will use this in production just so I can recver quickly, but I know I won't make changes to Proxmox whilst out on the road so if things go wrong, I cann access the device.

Final tip, once you have a working system, test it for stability and temps, tweak power limits and BIOS settings so you get the best balance for you
 

rzzo

New Member
Sep 13, 2023
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@minimos Thanks for the info! It is kind of funny I actually got this bug when watching a video about Proxmox. But then went down the the pfsense/(casaos) container hole. I have not looked back at the VM world again and have noticed most people here are going that route. From a high level I understand what your ultimently doing, but not sure how all this ties together. Does your network connect inside proxmox? Does each vm really act as the "other devices" but just live in the same machine? Thanks for the response you have gotten me thinking about all of this from a different view now.
 

michaelpayne02

New Member
May 29, 2023
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0
1
Hi everyone,

I'm trying to decide between the 4-port, 5-port, and 6-port versions of the (preferrably N305) cwwk mini router. I'd like to be able to run some light VMs in proxmox, so the I think the added performance and outstanding power efficiency of the N305 will be my best bet. From looking at cwwk.net's listings, the main downside of the 6-port version is that the nvme slots are only PCIE 3x1. Also despite the case having holes for it, the motherboard doesn't actually support wifi?

As for the 5-port, Does the n305 version of the 5-port actually exist? The image on CWWK's site says it does, but the listing only shows N100 versions. No "Out of Stock," it's just not an option.

As of right now, the 4-port seems like the best option in terms of NVME expandability and wifi support. Curious as to everyone else's thoughts.

Thanks in advance
 

ToniCipriani

Member
Sep 6, 2023
40
22
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Hi everyone,

I'm trying to decide between the 4-port, 5-port, and 6-port versions of the (preferrably N305) cwwk mini router. I'd like to be able to run some light VMs in proxmox, so the I think the added performance and outstanding power efficiency of the N305 will be my best bet. From looking at cwwk.net's listings, the main downside of the 6-port version is that the nvme slots are only PCIE 3x1. Also despite the case having holes for it, the motherboard doesn't actually support wifi?

As for the 5-port, Does the n305 version of the 5-port actually exist? The image on CWWK's site says it does, but the listing only shows N100 versions. No "Out of Stock," it's just not an option.

As of right now, the 4-port seems like the best option in terms of NVME expandability and wifi support. Curious as to everyone else's thoughts.

Thanks in advance
The 5 and 6 port versions indeed trade the A+E key slot for another i226-V interface for Wi-Fi, which is part of the reason I'm having some buyer's remorse right now.

However, since there are 2 NVMe slots, I am looking at a M-key to E-Key adapter which might allow me to install a Wi-Fi card into one of them.
 

michaelpayne02

New Member
May 29, 2023
2
0
1
The 5 and 6 port versions indeed trade the A+E key slot for another i226-V interface for Wi-Fi, which is part of the reason I'm having some buyer's remorse right now.

However, since there are 2 NVMe slots, I am looking at a M-key to E-Key adapter which might allow me to install a Wi-Fi card into one of them.
Interesting, could you link me the one you're looking at? I think I'd still like to be able to use the full x4 with adapter board for but yours seems like a viable option.
 

ToniCipriani

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Sep 6, 2023
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devast

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Jun 28, 2023
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You should be able to run multiple VM's on your device by virtualizing it
Here's a counter argument: Virtualization is cool. It's great, in an environment, where you can increase the uptime and reliability of services. But for home, with a single host, virtualizing critical network infrastructure is... not advised imo. You see, if you have any hw/sw issue with the host, and it's gone, you will have no network at all, and no internet. And recovery on another host is not that trivial when you have no network and no internet. This is why i am runniong openwrt on my box, bare metal, while booting from an sd card. If i have a failure, i can boot the sd card in any x86 machine, if the data is gone, i can recover in minutes by flashing another sd card with my backed up openwrt image and config. I virtualize my file server, and some other stuff at home, but not networking.
 
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minimos

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Aug 23, 2023
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Here's a counter argument: Virtualization is cool. It's great, in an environment, where you can increase the uptime and reliability of services. But for home, with a single host, virtualizing critical network infrastructure is... not advised imo. You see, if you have any hw/sw issue with the host, and it's gone, you will have no network at all, and no internet. And recovery on another host is not that trivial when you have no network and no internet. This is why i am runniong openwrt on my box, bare metal, while booting from an sd card. If i have a failure, i can boot the sd card in any x86 machine, if the data is gone, i can recover in minutes by flashing another sd card with my backed up openwrt image and config. I virtualize my file server, and some other stuff at home, but not networking.
Hi

I fully understand where you are coming from however my fallback is my existing router, if the hardware fails I'll plug that back in, also in most home situations most people tend to have an ISP supplied router with no failover. My fallback position from this if my existing dies as well will be mobile phone acting as a WAP. In a home unless you are dedicated or an uber enthusiast with this stuff there will be no auto failover.

Ultimately you have to decide what you are comfortable with. My management network will be kept the same as my current setup with fixed ips. The AP is standalone so will keep the same SSID, and I am the only one who can swap out this stuff in the house, so whether it's hardware going down or failed updates on the software side I will be the one fixing it like I do today if my existing router fails, like it has in the past with firmware updates I had to revert.

Minimos
 

Becks0815

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2022
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Here's a counter argument: Virtualization is cool. It's great, in an environment, where you can increase the uptime and reliability of services. But for home, with a single host, virtualizing critical network infrastructure is... not advised imo. You see, if you have any hw/sw issue with the host, and it's gone, you will have no network at all, and no internet.
You always have the same issue if your hardware fails. No matter if virtual or direct set up, if opnsense is gone, your network is dead. For me no problem. I still have the old J3160 with opnsense installed and configured I can use, or I plug in one of the older Fritzbox 7490s I have, until I get the main machine back. If everything else fails, all I have to do is to shut down the NAS, plug in one of the spare SSDs with 250GB sitting around, plug a dual NIC PCIe-card in (Intel NICs), and install opnsense on the J5040 until I get the N100 replaced.

I also didn't like the idea of running opnsense in a vm, but with the new N100 and the SSDs not being supported by FreeBSD, it was the only way to install the software package. And now, after several months, I love this approach. The NICs are run in direct mode, opnsense runs stable, fast and high efficiency, and gives me multiple advantages over the bare metal approach:

I can create a snapshot of the vm and all configuration details, run a software upgrade of opnsense, and if it fails revert to the working backup. No need to reinstall it from scratch.

I can and have created a pure virtual subnet within Proxmox and now run multiple services on virtual machines, which proved to be problematic otherwise. Wireguard is one of them. There were or are problems with the implementation in opnsense. I often had network discruptions and had to reset the connection, which wasn't practical. Since I forward this to a small vm running wireguard-easy on docker, the problems are gone. And as bonus I can create QR-codes for WG-connections, scan them with the mobile phone and have a working VPN without any manual key exchange or setting other options.

I run Jdownloader in another VM and by doing this resolved a problem with the network stability at home. It was running on my NAS, and whenever I had a network disruption, all connections were lost and I had to start over. Now I run the program in a separate VM and outside of docker, which gives me the possibility to implement local AI routines for captcha solving, and I also installed uptime kumar (togehter with two other instances on other machines) to locate the network problem location.

My next idea of software to move to the central hub is the Dynamic DNS resolver and maybe some other local services which are required to keep connected to the internet but don't offer any dedicated local services. Tandoor (cooking) e.g. will for sure stay on the NAS.
 

minimos

New Member
Aug 23, 2023
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@minimos Thanks for the info! It is kind of funny I actually got this bug when watching a video about Proxmox. But then went down the the pfsense/(casaos) container hole. I have not looked back at the VM world again and have noticed most people here are going that route. From a high level I understand what your ultimently doing, but not sure how all this ties together. Does your network connect inside proxmox? Does each vm really act as the "other devices" but just live in the same machine? Thanks for the response you have gotten me thinking about all of this from a different view now.
I started small I plugged 1 cable into my device after installing proxmox using a monitor keyboard and mouse for initial Install and configured a static IP inside my current network subnet but outside my DHCP range.

In promox I initially used a Linux Bridge,which passed through my physical cable. You can specify ports to attach to a bridge. I then added another bridge with no port passed through to act as a LAN interface, which I also used on another VM to spin up an Ubuntu image so I could play with the GUI on Opnsense without impacting my existing network.

I have since added items like other ports both physically and through bridges to expand my functionality and integrate with switches and vlans in readiness for switch over.

My omada controller is in an LXC container which is a bit lie docker rather than a full VM.

As I said previously take it slow, learn a new component then add the next thing rinse and repeat. I have learned (and continue) to learn a lot from this.
 
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minimos

New Member
Aug 23, 2023
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It's actually a GPU fan header. Look for GPU PWM fan adapter and you should be good to hook a 12V PWM fan.
Thank you, I'll purchase one of those and report back.


Just posting back so others can be kept up to date.

The Fan Header on the underside of the board near the front panel is NOT a GPU fan header type, bought a new cable with some small change and it wont fit as its too big , it does fit into the SATA pwr ports on the topside of the board.

It may be different between boards / brands so check the connectors before purchasing a they look very similar.

I think as previously stated they are JST/Dupont 1.25 connectors and the GPU ones are 2.0.
 
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ToniCipriani

Member
Sep 6, 2023
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Just posting back so others can be kept up to date.

The Fan Header on the underside of the board near the front panel is NOT a GPU fan header type, bought a new cable with some small change and it wont fit as its too big , it does fit into the SATA pwr ports on the topside of the board.

It may be different between boards / brands so check the connectors before purchasing a they look very similar.

I think as previously stated they are JST/Dupont 1.25 connectors and the GPU ones are 2.0.
Apologies for the confusion.
 

AnthonyUK

Member
May 9, 2023
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Here's a counter argument: Virtualization is cool. It's great, in an environment, where you can increase the uptime and reliability of services. But for home, with a single host, virtualizing critical network infrastructure is... not advised imo. You see, if you have any hw/sw issue with the host, and it's gone, you will have no network at all, and no internet. And recovery on another host is not that trivial when you have no network and no internet. This is why i am runniong openwrt on my box, bare metal, while booting from an sd card. If i have a failure, i can boot the sd card in any x86 machine, if the data is gone, i can recover in minutes by flashing another sd card with my backed up openwrt image and config. I virtualize my file server, and some other stuff at home, but not networking.
As with any single point of failure, if it is important, then have a plan to recover. You can find some pretty cost effective options to use as an alternative such as an HP T series or a SFF PC. I kept my previous J4125 device as an alternative and it is really trivial to recover VMs running on similar hardware.

If you do want to run baremetal however, these devices would be wasted on just running as a router for the home unless you have a really fast connection or need to play around with IDS or other CPU intensive plugins.
 
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devast

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Jun 28, 2023
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If you do want to run baremetal however, these devices would be wasted on just running as a router for the home unless you have a really fast connection or need to play around with IDS or other CPU intensive plugins.
Nowdays commercial off the shelf consumer router pricing is getting ridiculous, escpecially if you can't/don't want to use the usually included wifi capability. For example, a nanopi r6s with case is ~$140 net. Paying ~$150 for a very high performance, low power x86 router is really not "wasted" if you consider the alternatives. I have gigabit fiber, and i do sqm, so i actually do need the processing power. For lower speeds, there are older/slower/cheaper x86 boxes if you value the flexibility of the platform, or you can get some arm based devices too, as there are arm alternatives at lower price points.

I kept my previous J4125 device as an alternative and it is really trivial to recover VMs running on similar hardware.
You need to pick up a screwdriver, and do disassembly/assembly, so while it is trivial if you have a similar second spare device, not many people actually have that. Also the ssd could fail as well, meaning you need to recover from a backup ( if you have it ) without network.
I just have a rule to not to virtualize my core network at home. I do it at work, it's fun i agree. But when sh*t hits the fan, it will not be fun. Another thing to consider is that: years down the road, when all your stuff has been working properly and you haven't touched it for years, you get a failure. You will not remember how to properly recover.
But obviously, YMMV. It's just my (not young) experience.
 

Becks0815

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Oct 15, 2022
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If you really have some older experiences, your problem is not desaster recovery from a potential hardware failure, but the constant battle against your wife, having to explain why you need another cubic meter of space to store electronic trash.

The rest is just about backups and documentation, and both aspects are well known after some years working with computers and are relevant, no matter if bare metal or vm.
 
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miken92

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Sep 25, 2022
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I think as previously stated they are JST/Dupont 1.25 connectors and the GPU ones are 2.0.
I asked HUNSN for a fan kit via Amazon, shipped to UK in 1-2 weeks.


The pitch is definately bigger than 1.0mm difficult to tell if its 1.25mm but I'd guess so => Molex PicoBlade
Height is about 4.0mm => Molex PicoBlade
Has 2 bumps/lock => Molex PicoBlade

I think it's a Molex PicoBlade 4 pin, the trouble is probably finding somewhere that will sell one!

I have noticed that a redditor has been having 40-41 idle temps on his hunsn n100 anyone else having this issue?
My bare metal OPNsense jumps around ~50-57C idle, old NVMe Samsung 950 pro 59-62C
I've received a fan kit to install sometime, I did not see a gap between case and CPU when I checked but will probably repaste the CPU anyway.
I think the NVMe probably contributes to the heat it's a quite an early model that I had lying around and is notorious for running quite hot and thermal throttling, if the fan kit doesn't help, I'll probably replace it with a WD Blue SN570

I think the fan kit - or at least the cable should be included with all of these products, the SSD/Memory side has barely any airflow and just heats up.

edit: also I hear virtualised in proxmox runs cooler but I prefered to run bare metal