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Brocade ICX Series (cheap & powerful 10gbE/40gbE switching)

kfriis

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Apr 8, 2015
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I have noticed that "sometimes" after a complete power outage, the ICX-6450 will not restart/reboot. The only way to turn the switch ON again is to unplug the power cord and plug it right back in. After this, the switch boots and functions normally. But it will not "take power" or reboot without pulling the power cord.

Has anybody experienced this? Is there some kind of configuration I should be checking to ensure that the switch will reboot/restart after a power outage?

Thank you!
 

heromode

Active Member
May 25, 2020
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I have noticed that "sometimes" after a complete power outage, the ICX-6450 will not restart/reboot. The only way to turn the switch ON again is to unplug the power cord and plug it right back in. After this, the switch boots and functions normally. But it will not "take power" or reboot without pulling the power cord.

Has anybody experienced this? Is there some kind of configuration I should be checking to ensure that the switch will reboot/restart after a power outage?

Thank you!
only thing i can think of is it's trying to power on at the exact same time as all your other gear. I remember @fohdeesha mentioning that these things are designed for 'pulling the plug' power recycling, and no need to be afraid of that. Maybe the PSU just doesn't get enough juice the exact second all your other gear powers on?
 

fohdeesha

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I have noticed that "sometimes" after a complete power outage, the ICX-6450 will not restart/reboot. The only way to turn the switch ON again is to unplug the power cord and plug it right back in. After this, the switch boots and functions normally. But it will not "take power" or reboot without pulling the power cord.

Has anybody experienced this? Is there some kind of configuration I should be checking to ensure that the switch will reboot/restart after a power outage?

Thank you!
there's no "power-on" for these things, if power is applied to the board, they boot. Are these really brief power flickers, like a second or so? All I can think of is it's losing power just shortly enough that the voltage supplied to the CPU board doesn't drop enough to completely (the PSU is going to have ~400ms of hold-up time) to reset the CPU and it gets stuck in a half-reset state. have ran into this on a lot of electronics with very brief power flickers that don't quite drop voltage completely to micros/CPUs

It's also possible when your power is returning it's high voltage (or sagging) to the point the PSU is going into protection, and the PSU is not going to output power until it's reset (power removed and applied again)
 

jbrukardt

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Feb 4, 2016
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So in order...
- the best fans for this are unobtanium due to COVID-19, but don't use Noctua. Noctua is overpriced junk - it has the lowest flow rate and lowest static pressure. Anything from Sunon or NMB or Nidec or Delta is fine. They also cost far less.
- 08.0.30t for the 6450 is the maximum possible
- see first post for that, but if the switch was only configuration reset and not factory reset it may have them installed. Do a show licenses first always.

Edit: to expound upon my 'unobtanium' fan choice, bear in mind, I have been doing systems integration for 30 years and have VERY extensive rackmount equipment experience. I know why Brocade chose the fans they did, I have worked with those fans, and they are the same fans I would have chosen. (BTW, at speed 2 the 6450-40P is attempting to move 90.9CFM. Yes, each of those 40mm fans is rated for 30.3CFM free air.)
If you want to quiet down these units, the BIGGEST change you can make is to remove the stamped grill with a Dremel. It's all sharp edges, and significantly blocks the hub as well. Turbulence from things like grills are what generate serious noise. If you still need protection, tack on a wire grill on the OUTSIDE of the chassis. HOWEVER, this will result in slightly reduced cooling to the front right corner. I won't bother going into my unobtanium choice, because unless you're ready to order at least 250 of them, you can't buy them.

So here's some fans you can buy that I'd recommend.
  • Delta EFB0412VHD-F00 - $12.40/ea @ Digikey
    There's a REASON Delta's a top pick for ODM and OEM. 40x40x20mm, 10.1CFM, 0.416in H2O (which is insane,) 32.5dBA @ 1m, rated for 70k hours at 50C. Make sure it's THAT part number and not the Rev C, which is a vastly inferior part.
  • Comair Rotron "Gryphon" GDA4028-12BB - discontinued, alas
    If you can find these? BUY THESE. 40x40x28mm, but 11CFM, 0.34in H2O, 8800RPM, but just 31.4dBA! I am still mad they discontinued them. No, I am not selling any of my spares.
  • Mechatronics MR4020E12B1-RSR - $7.50 @ Digikey (when in stock)
    READ THE PAGE. These are non-stocked currently! However these offer excellent balance between flow and noise. 40x40x20mm, 15.8CFM, 0.45in H2O, and 39dBA @ 1m at 11000RPM. (Yes, it's about the quietest 11k fan ever made.) You need the E12B1 though - NOT the B2. The B1 has a tach, the B2 is a rotor lock wire.
  • Mechatronics MR4020H12B1-RSR - about $8
    The 'slightly slower' version pushing 13.6CFM at just 35.1dBA. Note that you cannot use the B1+6 that DigiKey stocks. The B1+6 is a 4-wire PWM, and the ICX's 12V control will burn up the motor.
  • Mechatronics MH4028L12B1-RSR - PLEASE TELL US ALL IF YOU FIND A SOURCE!
    These. Are. GLORIOUS. 40x40x28mm, 12.81CFM, 0.37in H2O, 39dBA, I just LOVE these fans. But nobody stocks the low speed version. And the next step up (the M) is already over 45dBA. But they have amazing harmonics due to the 4028L being less than half the speed the frame was designed for (Max 16,500RPM!)
  • NMB-MAT 1608VL-04W-B69-B00 - $10.47 @ Digikey
    These are an excellent 'middle of the middle' choice. 40x40x20mm, 11.3CFM, 0.399in H2O, 34.6dBA @ 1m at 9500RPM, and 40k hour lifetime. They're also generally stocked by multiple vendors. Really great fans for general use, but believe me, that 40k hour lifetime is near spot on - expect to replace every 3 years or so.
  • Sunon PSD1204PHB1-A(2).Z.F.PWM.GN "Tiny Terror" - also currently unobtainable
    These are new design MagLev parts, and really impressive. 40x40x15mm (so the thinnest here,) but 14CFM, 0.63in H2O, and 44.2dBA @ 1m at 12,000RPM. They're also a LOT easier than the Mechatronics; Sunon MOQ is just 30 for a non-custom part, expect around $10-12/ea. These are awesome fans if you can get your hands on them and can stand the noise.
And while we're here, let's talk about the Sunon KDE MagLevs. Which will be a very short talk: KDE MagLevs are terrible for this application. They're cheap, plentiful, and useless. They are NOT designed for applications like this. The KDE1204PKVX that you can find anywhere and everywhere? It is objectively the worst. 10.8CFM, 27.5dBA, sounds great, right? It also has a static pressure of 0.27in H2O. These were designed for very free flow applications. The ICX chassis grills are the opposite.
I also don't recommend SanAce because the PSUs you all complain about on the 6610's? Those are SanAce fans. SanAces have a very distinct harmonic that everyone hates. That harmonic is also why SanAces perform the way they do. You can't have one without the other. If you think those 6610's are bad, at least there is much, much worse.

As far as selecting fans? The closer to stock flow, the better, however you achieve it. Installing 10CFM peak fans in an ICX6450-48 or 48P is a net cooling reduction of over 70%! So, you know, don't do that unless you want to run very hot or are not using POE! This is why I make angry noises at people who think they can just swap fans around in equipment like this. For the love of god people, the ICX6610 fan modules? 2x Delta FFB0412UHN's per module, that's over 50CFM per module, over 100CFM excluding the power supplies! Nobody puts that kind of brute force in unless they NEED it. Especially as those FFBs are close to $20/each at quantity.
But as I said: how you get there doesn't matter as long as you get there or accept the trade-off. Ducting a pair of 45CFM 120mm fans on the side of your 6450-48P? That'd work too. No, seriously! (Won't work on the exhaust side because you just don't have enough opening and it's too much pressure loss.) Add more, quieter fans? Also valid. Strap tiny quiet fans to the heatsinks? Absolutely will help. Only care about performance at all costs? Throw in some contra-rotating fans! Want to get stock cooling performance out of a 6450-48? Cut out 2 more fan holes, drop in 3 x 9CFM, dead silent and ready to rock.
FYSA, the Comair's are available at

12V .20A 2.4W Gryphon Series DC Fan w/Tachometer Comair Rotron GDA4028-12BB

my order just shipped.
 
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jbrukardt

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Is there something weird about the POE on Brocade switches? Grabbed a 6450-48P and it wont seem to deliver power to any of my POE splitters that I used to power things throughout the house. The straight POE items work fine (unifi APs, Amcrest Cameras), but the switch wont seem to negotiate with the splitter.

This is the splitter in question: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CNKX14C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Used it for years with my Avaya 4548gt-PWR to power low-power USB devices (way way sub 2.4A stuff). Never had an issue

The brocade wont recognize it at all, wont even negotiate with it. Im wondering if its because i dont use the data link portion?

heres my "show inline power"


Should be showing up on port 41 (although ive tried it on many different ports, same result), but just no registration at all.

Also... you'll note i turned POE off on port 24.... because it was detected the standard ethernet port of a motherboard as a 802.11af device and sending 400mw to it... not cool.
 

fohdeesha

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Is there something weird about the POE on Brocade switches? Grabbed a 6450-48P and it wont seem to deliver power to any of my POE splitters that I used to power things throughout the house. The straight POE items work fine (unifi APs, Amcrest Cameras), but the switch wont seem to negotiate with the splitter.

This is the splitter in question: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CNKX14C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Used it for years with my Avaya 4548gt-PWR to power low-power USB devices (way way sub 2.4A stuff). Never had an issue

The brocade wont recognize it at all, wont even negotiate with it. Im wondering if its because i dont use the data link portion?

heres my "show inline power"


Should be showing up on port 41 (although ive tried it on many different ports, same result), but just no registration at all.

Also... you'll note i turned POE off on port 24.... because it was detected the standard ethernet port of a motherboard as a 802.11af device and sending 400mw to it... not cool.
if it negotiated 11af ethernet on a non-PoE device, among other things, the poe board might be bad
 

daleq

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Mar 11, 2015
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Many thanks @fohdeesha for all that you've done to help others configure/maintain these switches. This is an amazing gift!

Like @sdyoung, I have a switch (ICX 6450-48P) with an old bootloader. I followed Fohdeesha's advice to work-around this initial hiccup.

Then, using pointers from @sdyoung and @Lone Wolf, I was able to get access to the web GUI using the following;
Code:
>enable
#configure terminal
(config)#ip address 10.1.1.3/24
(config)#username root password MyRootPassword
(config)#username dale privilege 0 password MyPassword
(config)#aaa authentication login default enable local
(config)#aaa authentication web-server default local
(config)#write memory
(I created the non-root user because I could not get 'root' to login on the Web GUI)
Then, rebooting the switch by unplugging and plugging back in.

My understanding from Lone Wolf's post is that I need to update the primary image via the Web GUI.
I successfully
- logged into the Web GUI as the 'dale' user
- scrolled down the left-menu to TFTP configuration
- set TFTP Server: 10.1.1.2 (my computer with TFTPd64 running)
- set Configuration File Name: ICX64xx/ICX64R08030u.bin (from Fohdeesha's instructions)

I have also temporarily disabled my Win10 firewall.

When I click 'Copy from Server to Flash' button in Web GUI, I'm seeing
- the progress bar start on the web gui
- tftpd64 shows bits being transferred for about 5 seconds (500,000-ish bytes)

Then I get an error on the page
Status : TFTP out of buffer space error.

This error shows in the console too
Code:
ICX6450-48P Switch#!!! Flash Task Got unblocked without cause, fd 13, ffp
stack: 015aacc0 015a626c 01777e34

TFTP out of buffer space error.
I don't know if the problem is with TFTPD64 on my windows box or with the config on the switch. Or, maybe I need to figure out why I can't login as root on Web Gui. Any suggestions to troubleshoot and resolve?

Many many thanks to Fohdeesha and all who have contributed on this thread to get me this far. I greatly appreciate it.
 

fohdeesha

Kaini Industries
Nov 20, 2016
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Many thanks @fohdeesha for all that you've done to help others configure/maintain these switches. This is an amazing gift!

Like @sdyoung, I have a switch (ICX 6450-48P) with an old bootloader. I followed Fohdeesha's advice to work-around this initial hiccup.

Then, using pointers from @sdyoung and @Lone Wolf, I was able to get access to the web GUI using the following;
Code:
>enable
#configure terminal
(config)#ip address 10.1.1.3/24
(config)#username root password MyRootPassword
(config)#username dale privilege 0 password MyPassword
(config)#aaa authentication login default enable local
(config)#aaa authentication web-server default local
(config)#write memory
(I created the non-root user because I could not get 'root' to login on the Web GUI)
Then, rebooting the switch by unplugging and plugging back in.

My understanding from Lone Wolf's post is that I need to update the primary image via the Web GUI.
I successfully
- logged into the Web GUI as the 'dale' user
- scrolled down the left-menu to TFTP configuration
- set TFTP Server: 10.1.1.2 (my computer with TFTPd64 running)
- set Configuration File Name: ICX64xx/ICX64R08030u.bin (from Fohdeesha's instructions)

I have also temporarily disabled my Win10 firewall.

When I click 'Copy from Server to Flash' button in Web GUI, I'm seeing
- the progress bar start on the web gui
- tftpd64 shows bits being transferred for about 5 seconds (500,000-ish bytes)

Then I get an error on the page
Status : TFTP out of buffer space error.

This error shows in the console too
Code:
ICX6450-48P Switch#!!! Flash Task Got unblocked without cause, fd 13, ffp
stack: 015aacc0 015a626c 01777e34

TFTP out of buffer space error.
I don't know if the problem is with TFTPD64 on my windows box or with the config on the switch. Or, maybe I need to figure out why I can't login as root on Web Gui. Any suggestions to troubleshoot and resolve?

Many many thanks to Fohdeesha and all who have contributed on this thread to get me this far. I greatly appreciate it.
glad to help - is there any reason you didn't continue following the guide and instead started trying to boot into the included L2 only firmware and use the web UI? the web UI is super buggy and I would not attempt firmware upgrades from it, especially with tftp file paths including slashes. I would go back and follow the guide from the beginning, I've also added a sub-note right in the guide on how to fix the old bootloader/missing factory command issue: ICX6450 - Fohdeesha Docs
 
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Lone Wolf

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Apr 3, 2022
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glad to help - is there any reason you didn't continue following the guide and instead started trying to boot into the included L2 only firmware and use the web UI? the web UI is super buggy and I would not attempt firmware upgrades from it, especially with tftp file paths including slashes. I would go back and follow the guide from the beginning, I've also added a sub-note right in the guide on how to fix the old bootloader/missing factory command issue: ICX6450 - Fohdeesha Docs
I checked out the updated guide and I am assuming you are referring to the sub-note " If you get "factory set-default is not a valid command" ". If so, that won't work on an older firmware, or at least it wouldn't work on mine that had a v7 firmware. Your sub-note assumes we can update the uboot through the cli, which in my case I couldn't. I was unable to update the primary, secondary or uboot through cli. I HAD to go into the webui and update the Primary. Once I did that and rebooted I was able to follow your guide exactly. If daleq has an older v7 firmware and bootloader like I did, he will be unable to update the uboot like me, leaving the webui the only option that I know of.

If the webui is having problems with the slash in the path, could daleq move ICX64R08030u.bin up a folder so that it's not in a sub-folder and then just specify the file name directly?
 

fohdeesha

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I checked out the updated guide and I am assuming you are referring to the sub-note " If you get "factory set-default is not a valid command" ". If so, that won't work on an older firmware, or at least it wouldn't work on mine that had a v7 firmware. Your sub-note assumes we can update the uboot through the cli, which in my case I couldn't. I was unable to update the primary, secondary or uboot through cli. I HAD to go into the webui and update the Primary. Once I did that and rebooted I was able to follow your guide exactly. If daleq has an older v7 firmware and bootloader like I did, he will be unable to update the uboot like me, leaving the webui the only option that I know of.

If the webui is having problems with the slash in the path, could daleq move ICX64R08030u.bin up a folder so that it's not in a sub-folder and then just specify the file name directly?
Woah, there's 6450 bootloaders that don't even have update_uboot? I've never seen those, I wonder if I can try to dig one out of old v7 zips and test here. do you happen to remember the version of that bootloader? v7 would have been the OS firmware train, not bootloader
 

fohdeesha

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OK, the oldest fastiron release I could find that supports the ICX64xx is 7.4, which has kxz07401 for the bootloader, and it has both update_uboot and update_primary - are you sure you didn't have one of those weird dev bootloaders? did this switch have a black and white QR code sticker on it by chance
 

fohdeesha

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OK yeah going back through your original post you definitely had some pre-production/unreleased bootloader not based on u-boot, as you said the "setenv" commands wouldn't even take - if it was the production u-boot loader (even the oldest one they've published), setenv would have worked at a minimum as that's baked into the base u-boot code
 
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Lone Wolf

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OK yeah going back through your original post you definitely had some pre-production/unreleased bootloader not based on u-boot, as you said the "setenv" commands wouldn't even take - if it was the production u-boot loader (even the oldest one they've published), setenv would have worked at a minimum as that's baked into the base u-boot code
Ahh okay. I got the switch at the beginning of the year, and I don't know what version of the firmware and bootloader it came with, other than that the firmware was v7.something. I don't have a black and white QR code sticker on it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't removed at some point in the past.

As you saw in my post I was unable to update primary, secondary or uboot through cli. I was able to update the primary through the webui tho, at which point I could follow your guide and successfully update everything through the cli. I wonder if daleq is having this issue as well? If he can update his uboot through the cli then he should be golden, if he can't then going through the webui to update the primary might be his only option.
 
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kimbo

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Jun 15, 2022
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I have two 6450s connected via Brocade branded SFP+ modules. Can I use optical monitoring to check signal strength?
 

daleq

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Mar 11, 2015
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Thanks @fohdeesha and @Lone Wolf.

I apologize, but I won't be able to investigate further until Monday.

FYI - Here is a photo showing a sticker on the back of the units. This is in addition to the silver sticker with the regulatory marks.
IMG_4749.jpg

And, here is what I see on the console during boot.

Bootloader Version: 07.4.01T310 (Jun 29 2012 - 11:04:25)
Model ID: 1.0.0.1.1.0
SW: Version 07.4.00bT311
Boot-Monitor Image: Version:07.4.01T310 (kxz07401)

Code:
Bootloader Version: 07.4.01T310 (Jun 29 2012 - 11:04:25)


Model ID: 1.0.0.1.1.0

Enter 'b' to stop at boot monitor:  0
bootdelay: ===
Booting image from Primary
## Booting image at 00007fc0 ...
   Created:      2012-10-03  15:43:34 UTC
   Data Size:    10371200 Bytes =  9.9 MB
   Load Address: 00008000
   Entry Point:  00008000
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
OK

Starting kernel in BE mode ...
Uncompressing Image <snip> done, booting the kernel.
Config partition mounted.
*** Crash dump information is available, please collect it using "supportsave" C            LI ***
Starting the FastIron.
OS>Starting Main Task .CPSS DxCh Version: cpss3.4p1 release
        mem_size = 6400 mem_size = 6400Pre Parsing Config Data ...

Parsing Config Data ...
Invalid input -> LINX, LINX
Type ? for a list

  Copyright (c) 1996-2012 Brocade Communications Systems, Inc. All rights reserv                               ed.
    UNIT 1: compiled on Oct  3 2012 at 08:42:29 labeled as ICX64S07400b
                (10371776 bytes) from Primary ICX64S07400b.bin
        SW: Version 07.4.00bT311
  Boot-Monitor Image size = 776680, Version:07.4.01T310 (kxz07401)
  HW: Stackable ICX6450-48-HPOE
==========================================================================
UNIT 1: SL 1: ICX6450-48p POE 48-port Management Module
         Serial  #: BZT3233K04Y
         License: BASE_SOFT_PACKAGE   (LID: dbvIHIImFJa)
         P-ENGINE  0: type DEF0, rev 01
         P-ENGINE  1: type DEF0, rev 01
==========================================================================
UNIT 1: SL 2: ICX6450-SFP-Plus 4port 40G Module
==========================================================================
  800 MHz ARM processor ARMv5TE, 400 MHz bus
65536 KB flash memory
  512 MB DRAM
STACKID 1  system uptime is 16 seconds
The system : started=cold start

..PoD: No license present for port 1/2/2
..PoD: No license present for port 1/2/4
ICX6450-48P Switch>
Stack unit 1 PS 1, Internal Power supply detected and up.
PoE: Stack unit 1 Power supply 1 with 740000 mwatts capacity is up
PoE Info: Adding new 54V capacity of 740000 mW, total capacity is 740000, total                                free capacity is 740000
PoE Info: PoE module detected. Initializing....
PoE Info: PoE module 1 of Unit 1 initialization is done.
Unless someone suggests otherwise, I'll plan to move the .bin file up a directory and try to flash the primary with the web gui.
 

fohdeesha

Kaini Industries
Nov 20, 2016
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Thanks @fohdeesha and @Lone Wolf.

I apologize, but I won't be able to investigate further until Monday.

FYI - Here is a photo showing a sticker on the back of the units. This is in addition to the silver sticker with the regulatory marks.
View attachment 23843

And, here is what I see on the console during boot.

Bootloader Version: 07.4.01T310 (Jun 29 2012 - 11:04:25)
Model ID: 1.0.0.1.1.0
SW: Version 07.4.00bT311
Boot-Monitor Image: Version:07.4.01T310 (kxz07401)

Code:
Bootloader Version: 07.4.01T310 (Jun 29 2012 - 11:04:25)


Model ID: 1.0.0.1.1.0

Enter 'b' to stop at boot monitor:  0
bootdelay: ===
Booting image from Primary
## Booting image at 00007fc0 ...
   Created:      2012-10-03  15:43:34 UTC
   Data Size:    10371200 Bytes =  9.9 MB
   Load Address: 00008000
   Entry Point:  00008000
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
OK

Starting kernel in BE mode ...
Uncompressing Image <snip> done, booting the kernel.
Config partition mounted.
*** Crash dump information is available, please collect it using "supportsave" C            LI ***
Starting the FastIron.
OS>Starting Main Task .CPSS DxCh Version: cpss3.4p1 release
        mem_size = 6400 mem_size = 6400Pre Parsing Config Data ...

Parsing Config Data ...
Invalid input -> LINX, LINX
Type ? for a list

  Copyright (c) 1996-2012 Brocade Communications Systems, Inc. All rights reserv                               ed.
    UNIT 1: compiled on Oct  3 2012 at 08:42:29 labeled as ICX64S07400b
                (10371776 bytes) from Primary ICX64S07400b.bin
        SW: Version 07.4.00bT311
  Boot-Monitor Image size = 776680, Version:07.4.01T310 (kxz07401)
  HW: Stackable ICX6450-48-HPOE
==========================================================================
UNIT 1: SL 1: ICX6450-48p POE 48-port Management Module
         Serial  #: BZT3233K04Y
         License: BASE_SOFT_PACKAGE   (LID: dbvIHIImFJa)
         P-ENGINE  0: type DEF0, rev 01
         P-ENGINE  1: type DEF0, rev 01
==========================================================================
UNIT 1: SL 2: ICX6450-SFP-Plus 4port 40G Module
==========================================================================
  800 MHz ARM processor ARMv5TE, 400 MHz bus
65536 KB flash memory
  512 MB DRAM
STACKID 1  system uptime is 16 seconds
The system : started=cold start

..PoD: No license present for port 1/2/2
..PoD: No license present for port 1/2/4
ICX6450-48P Switch>
Stack unit 1 PS 1, Internal Power supply detected and up.
PoE: Stack unit 1 Power supply 1 with 740000 mwatts capacity is up
PoE Info: Adding new 54V capacity of 740000 mW, total capacity is 740000, total                                free capacity is 740000
PoE Info: PoE module detected. Initializing....
PoE Info: PoE module 1 of Unit 1 initialization is done.
Unless someone suggests otherwise, I'll plan to move the .bin file up a directory and try to flash the primary with the web gui.
yeah you have the standard (but old) bootloader, I highly recommend following the actual guide, it's been adjusted to account for these older loaders: ICX6450 - Fohdeesha Docs