EU ASRock Rack B450D4U-V1LQ5 mATX AM4

[dbram]

3000 Series you can only buy on Aliexpress and similar, they are not being Manufactured anymore.

I’ve been looking at 2nd hand market lately. Got some 3700x between 58,- and 68,- eur a piece. That’s about half the price of 5700x, but of course doesn’t have the ipc that the 5000 series has. Roi wise good enough for my needs. 2nd hand 5000 series are not worth it, with tray versions of 5600x and 5700x being close to new prices, Reichelt has some good deals.

strange how these prices evolved.
A while ago, when the gigabyte MC12-LE0 was on sale , i ordered 2x 5600x boxed at
98, eur each new on amazon.

 

[chlastakov]

I’ve been looking at 2nd hand market lately. Got some 3700x between 58,- and 68,- eur a piece. That’s about half the price of 5700x, but of course doesn’t have the ipc that the 5000 series has. Roi wise good enough for my needs. 2nd hand 5000 series are not worth it, with tray versions of 5600x and 5700x being close to new prices, Reichelt has some good deals.

strange how these prices evolved.
A while ago, when the gigabyte MC12-LE0 was on sale , i ordered 2x 5600x boxed at
98, eur each new on amazon.

You are right. I also ordered tha 5700X new. Do you know about more 3700X deals?

 

[luckylinux]

You are right. I also ordered tha 5700X new. Do you know about more 3700X deals?

100 EUR used on eBay. I'll pass ... Maybe locally / Kleinanzeigen.

Locally I can see one 3700X for 60 EUR here in Denmark. And another 3700X at 80 EUR.

 

[luckylinux]

I’ve been looking at 2nd hand market lately. Got some 3700x between 58,- and 68,- eur a piece. That’s about half the price of 5700x, but of course doesn’t have the ipc that the 5000 series has. Roi wise good enough for my needs. 2nd hand 5000 series are not worth it, with tray versions of 5600x and 5700x being close to new prices, Reichelt has some good deals.

strange how these prices evolved.
A while ago, when the gigabyte MC12-LE0 was on sale , i ordered 2x 5600x boxed at
98, eur each new on amazon.

I ordered my 2 x 5700X used on Aliexpress, it really was NOT a huge savings though. But Free Shipping at least .

 

[chlastakov]

Locally I can see one 3700X for 60 EUR here in Denmark. And another 3700X at 80 EUR.

60 EUR is nice price.

 

[luckylinux]

60 EUR is nice price.

Plus Shipping and Fraud Protection through the Website ... so maybe 65 EUR overall and some Negotiation .

I'm still not sure if it's better to use a 3700X over a 5700X though.

Approx. 15% Slower if you trust this Score:

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X vs Ryzen 7 5700X [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software

Also not sure if there are major Idle Power Consumption Differences between the two (with the 5700X probably doing better, since more Recent).

 

[chlastakov]

Plus Shipping and Fraud Protection through the Website ... so maybe 65 EUR overall and some Negotiation .

I'm still not sure if it's better to use a 3700X over a 5700X though.

Approx. 15% Slower if you trust this Score:

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X vs Ryzen 7 5700X [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software

Also not sure if there are major Idle Power Consumption Differences between the two (with the 5700X probably doing better, since more Recent).

It's almost half the price of 5700X and everything is working with 3000 series. I also see all temperatures that won't show using 5700X.

 

[luckylinux]

It's almost half the price of 5700X and everything is working with 3000 series. I also see all temperatures that won't show using 5700X.

What do you mean "All Temperatures" ? In lm-sensors ? I thought all Ryzen CPUs only show their CCD (Module) Temperature, NOT their individual Core Temperature. I only owned AMD Ryzen 5950X before the 5700X, so I have no Experience with the previous Zen Iterations.

 

[chlastakov]

What do you mean "All Temperatures" ? In lm-sensors ? I thought all Ryzen CPUs only show their CCD (Module) Temperature, NOT their individual Core Temperature. I only owned AMD Ryzen 5950X before the 5700X, so I have no Experience with the previous Zen Iterations.

Yes, they still have only CCD temp for CPU, but board started to show other temperatures. Before that, I saw nothing. Will give you output when I start the system.

 

[luckylinux]

Yes, they still have only CCD temp for CPU, but board started to show other temperatures. Before that, I saw nothing. Will give you output when I start the system.

Uhm OK. In BIOS I felt they always worked (also Fan Speeds), but in OS it seems broken. But maybe I'm remembering incorrectly ...

 

[dbram]

You are right. I also ordered tha 5700X new. Do you know about more 3700X deals?

the 3700x (local) market seems to have dried up ;-) cheapest in Belgium is now 75,- €
there is a 3800x for 70,- € on tweakers.net (Holland)

 

[luckylinux]

And the Guy in Denmark rejected my offer at 47 EUR plus approx. 15 EUR extra between Shipping & Insurance & Co.

 

[luckylinux]

It's almost half the price of 5700X and everything is working with 3000 series. I also see all temperatures that won't show using 5700X.

I got a Deal at 50 EUR with one Seller in Denmark. The other one arrogant ****** kept rejecting and then contacted me "I sold it at listed Price". Replied just with "Good for you ...".

Anyways, I got today my 25 AM4 Gelid 1U Coolers. No Time for Testing, but one Thing caught my Eye: the Thermal paste area is quite small IMHO. It covers the 2 Heatpipes so in Theory it *should* be good, but did you try to apply some Noctua NT-H1 / Arctic MX-4 or similar and spread it by your Fingertip (GROUND yourself by touching a EARTHED Metallic Object to make sure you don't hold a dangerous Static Charge) across ALL CPU Heat-spreader ?

 

[luckylinux]

I received the 3700X a few Days ago but unfortunately it's not even sure it will work . It was sold as untested and had some Thermal Paste on the underside (where the Pins are). Soaked in Isopropyl Alcohol for a couple Days but that didn't remove almost anything unfortunately. I think I'll try to just plug it in the Socket, as attempting to clean it with e.g. Toothbrush will likely just do more Damage . The Seller told me it was some Arctic Cooling MX-4 so at least it's not electrically conductive (but can be electrically capacitive).

For the other CPUs I still need (19-20 depending on how you count), I still need to see what to do.
Between private Sellers ******* in Denmark that don't budge a single 1% of Discount and the same with Companies (probably in Germany as well for new Products), I'm not really sure what to do ...



There are some Deals on either ComputerUniverse (50 EUR Shipping but NO VAT adjustment to Denmark since I guess they do NOT sell many Products in Denmark) or Reichelt (10-15 EUR Shipping but WITH VAT Adjustment to 25%).

CPU	Architecture	ECC	Core Config	Cores	Threads	PCIe Version	PCIe # Lanes	Box / Tray	Shop	Benchmark Score	Price [EUR]	Score / Price [EUR]
AMD Ryzen 7 5700	Cezanne	YES	1x8	8	16	3	20	Box	Computer Universe	24237	135	179.5
AMD Ryzen 7 5700X	Vermeer		1x8	8	16	4	20	Tray	Reichelt Computer Universe	26627	122.8 116.9	216.8 227.8
AMD Ryzen 5 5600X	Vermeer		1x6	6	12	4	20	Tray	Reichelt	21866	100.7	217.1
AMD Ryzen 5 5600	Vermeer		1x6	6	12	4	24	Tray	Reichelt Computer Universe	21557	90.2 85.9	239.0 250.9
AMD Ryzen 5 5500	Cezanne		1x6	6	12	3	24	Tray	Reichelt Computer Universe	19346	69.2 65.9	279.6 293.6
AMD Ryzen 5 4500	Renoir		2x3	6	12	3	16	Box	Reichelt	16119	55.6	289.9
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X	Matisse	YES	2x4	8	16	4	16			22482
AMD Ryzen 5 3600X	Matisse		2x3	6	12	4	16			18167
AMD Ryzen 5 3500X	Matisse		2x3	6	6	4	24		Proshop	13165	40	329
AMD Ryzen 5 3600	Matisse		2x3	6	12	4	16	Box	Computer Universe	17711	72.9	242.9
AMD Ryzen 5 3500	???????		2x3	6	6	?	?	Tray	Computer Universe	12799	41.9	305.5
AMD Ryzen 3 3100	Matisse	NO	2x3	4	8	4	16	Tray	Computer Universe	11564	30.9	374.2

EDIT 1: So yeah, not sure what exactly to do . It depends how much CPU Power vs RAM I need for each Node. Even the Ryzen 3 3100 blasts the Hell out of Intel Xeon E3 12XX v3/v5/v6 at more than TWICE the Performance.

Without compromising Performance too much, I'd say the AMD Ryzen 5 5500 looks like a good Bargain (27% lower Performance at 46% lower Cost). Maybe also quite a bit easier to cool down.

Thoughts ?

EDIT 2: I wonder where all the CPUs that were used by Hetzner etc went though. There is not much going on on the 2nd Hand Market . It's even more expensive than buying new .

EDIT 3: Updated table to show Cores/Threads Numbers and added also 3600X/3700X even though NOT available on the New Market.

EDIT: added AMD Ryzen 5 3500X which is available in Denmark at 300 DKK (40 EUR) or Germany 35-38 EUR

EDIT 4: Added PCIe Version / # Lanes

EDIT 5: Added Architecture Name

EDIT 6: Added Core Configuration

EDIT 7: Added ECC Information. @chlastakov observed that the 3100 did NOT support ECC Memory (System will NOT boot !)

 

[dbram]

Without compromising Performance too much, I'd say the AMD Ryzen 5 5500 looks like a good Bargain (27% lower Performance at 46% lower Cost). Maybe also quite a bit easier to cool down.

I thought the 5500 is PCIE 3.0, thus 20 pcie 3.0 lanes to use. not a big deal and not relevant if all the pcie cards are 2.0 and 3.0, but important for nvme storage and possible for > 10gbit (dual) NIC's.

Missing, my favorite, the 3700x in the table too, albeit only in 2nd hand availability.
Possibly also the 3800x. I've seen and old YT video comparing 3700x and 3800x, very similar only the TDP seems different. Hear say states that this is mostly the binning differences, and the real power usages (idle, average and peak) should look very similar. OC in these B450 is not my primary goal anyhow.

Your calculations are very similar to what I drew up a couple of weeks ago.

The 3100 in second hand really is a bargain price /performance ratio. you can find these <= 20,- EUR nowadays.
4 cores 'only', but still SMT capable, a bit lower cache, but goog enough for an always on node.
I could even power it (quite decently) with a pico psu and 75Watt Leicke power supply, leading to <20 watt idle power usage.

For my six B450 nodes, I'm now at: 5x 3700x, 1x 3600
and I also went for a few GB of unbuffered ECC ram mentionned in this thread. thanks for the hint.

Including a new table that was compiled by a gpt mainly for the used market cpu's because I didn't save my excel at the time

Model	Cores	Threads	Base Clock (GHz)	Boost Clock (GHz)	TDP (W)	CPUMark Score	Used Price (€)	Perf per €	Perf per W	New Price	Perf per € new
Ryzen 3 3100	4​	8​	3,6​	3,9​	65​	11000​	25​	440​	169​	-	-
Ryzen 5 3600	6​	12​	3,6​	4,2​	65​	17800​	45​	396​	274​	-	-
Ryzen 5 3600X	6​	12​	3,8​	4,4​	95​	18000​	45​	400​	189​	-	-
Ryzen 7 3700X	8​	16​	3,6​	4,4​	65​	22500​	60​	375​	346​	-	-
Ryzen 7 3800X	8​	16​	3,9​	4,5​	105​	23500​	80​	294​	224​	-	-
Ryzen 9 3900X	12​	24​	3,8​	4,6​	105​	32000​	120​	267​	305​	-	-
Ryzen 9 3950X	16​	32​	3,5​	4,7​	105​	38000​	170​	224​	362​	-	-
Ryzen 5 5600X	6​	12​	3,7​	4,6​	65​	22000​	100​	220​	338​	97,51​	226​
Ryzen 7 5700X	8​	16​	3,4​	4,6​	65​	27000​	140​	193​	415​	118,86​	227​
Ryzen 7 5800X	8​	16​	3,8​	4,7​	105​	28500​	150​	190​	271​	162,59​	175​
Ryzen 9 5900X	12​	24​	3,7​	4,8​	105​	35000​	200​	175​	333​	258,78​	135​
Ryzen 9 5950X	16​	32​	3,4​	4,9​	105​	40000​	280​	143​	381​	338,55​	118​

 

[luckylinux]

I thought the 5500 is PCIE 3.0, thus 20 pcie 3.0 lanes to use. not a big deal and not relevant if all the pcie cards are 2.0 and 3.0, but important for nvme storage and possible for > 10gbit (dual) NIC's.

Good Point. I didn't realize that the X was for the PCIe 4.0 Capability (amongst possibly other Things). I thought it had a slightly higher Operating Frequency, but indeed the AMD Ryzen 5 5500 is PCIe 3.0 only .

Do you know of other Differences between the X series and the non-X Series ?

Missing, my favorite, the 3700x in the table too, albeit only in 2nd hand availability.

I'd say that unless you count Local (IF at all) or Aliexpress, then eBay is far too expensive to be worth it. You can get a new AMD Ryzen 5 5500 or better for those "Used" Price.

Possibly also the 3800x. I've seen and old YT video comparing 3700x and 3800x, very similar only the TDP seems different. Hear say states that this is mostly the binning differences, and the real power usages (idle, average and peak) should look very similar. OC in these B450 is not my primary goal anyhow.

Well, I'd like to Enable the Overclock Menu Page in the BIOS (probably NOT needed for the 3000 Series as you already stated e.g. for ECC Configuration), to be able to REDUCE the Power Setting from 95W to 65W so I have a Chance of cooling this Thing. Possibly also UNDERVOLT a bit .

Your calculations are very similar to what I drew up a couple of weeks ago.

Good to Hear that I'm not completely Off . That of course assumes the (Multicore) Score to be legit. Probably it is, but I didn't go down that Rabbit Hole [yet] .

The 3100 in second hand really is a bargain price /performance ratio. you can find these <= 20,- EUR nowadays.

I didn't check 2nd Hand. 31 EUR new is also a Bargain I'd say. Especially if at 20 EUR you have to add 10 EUR Shipping every Time, it comes out to be even cheaper to buy new. Current eBay cheapest is at 29 EUR plus Shipping (excluding running Auctions).

4 cores 'only', but still SMT capable, a bit lower cache, but goog enough for an always on node.
I could even power it (quite decently) with a pico psu and 75Watt Leicke power supply, leading to <20 watt idle power usage.

It's definitively not too shabby for an entry Level CPU I'd say. Especially if you need more RAM than CPU, that could be a good Solution to save some Money .

For my six B450 nodes, I'm now at: 5x 3700x, 1x 3600

I don't see a lot / any decent Deal on the 2nd Hand Market to be honest right now .

and I also went for a few GB of unbuffered ECC ram mentionned in this thread. thanks for the hint.

I have a ****** of 16GB unbuffered ECC DIMMs but lack the CPUs for now. Only got 2 x 5700X from Aliexpress.

Plus this 3700X I got 2nd Hand with Thermal Paste under the CPU, I assume I need to install it as it is, since after 2 Nights in Isopropyl Alcohol it didn't come off at all .

 

[luckylinux]

Including a new table that was compiled by a gpt mainly for the used market cpu's because I didn't save my excel at the time

Model	Cores	Threads	Base Clock (GHz)	Boost Clock (GHz)	TDP (W)	CPUMark Score	Used Price (€)	Perf per €	Perf per W	New Price	Perf per € new
Ryzen 3 3100	4​	8​	3,6​	3,9​	65​	11000​	25​	440​	169​	-	-
Ryzen 5 3600	6​	12​	3,6​	4,2​	65​	17800​	45​	396​	274​	-	-
Ryzen 5 3600X	6​	12​	3,8​	4,4​	95​	18000​	45​	400​	189​	-	-
Ryzen 7 3700X	8​	16​	3,6​	4,4​	65​	22500​	60​	375​	346​	-	-
Ryzen 7 3800X	8​	16​	3,9​	4,5​	105​	23500​	80​	294​	224​	-	-
Ryzen 9 3900X	12​	24​	3,8​	4,6​	105​	32000​	120​	267​	305​	-	-
Ryzen 9 3950X	16​	32​	3,5​	4,7​	105​	38000​	170​	224​	362​	-	-
Ryzen 5 5600X	6​	12​	3,7​	4,6​	65​	22000​	100​	220​	338​	97,51​	226​
Ryzen 7 5700X	8​	16​	3,4​	4,6​	65​	27000​	140​	193​	415​	118,86​	227​
Ryzen 7 5800X	8​	16​	3,8​	4,7​	105​	28500​	150​	190​	271​	162,59​	175​
Ryzen 9 5900X	12​	24​	3,7​	4,8​	105​	35000​	200​	175​	333​	258,78​	135​
Ryzen 9 5950X	16​	32​	3,4​	4,9​	105​	40000​	280​	143​	381​	338,55​	118​

Does it also tell you where to go buy them ?

 

[luckylinux]

@dbram: what about the AMD Ryzen 5 3500X ? At 40 EUR new that also seems quite the Bargain but I cannot find that Model on AMD Official Page.

Being an X Type I believe that might also support PCIe 4.0, or ?

EDIT 1: according to Techpowerup at least it seems to support it

AMD Ryzen 5 3500X Specs

Matisse, 6 Cores, 6 Threads, 3.6 GHz, 65 W

www.techpowerup.com

 

[dbram]

@dbram: what about the AMD Ryzen 5 3500X ?
Being an X Type I believe that might also support PCIe 4.0, or ?

PCIE 4.0 yes, SMT unfortunately not, tweakers.net has a nice 'pricewatch' page, with detailed specs listed.

 

[luckylinux]

PCIE 4.0 yes, SMT unfortunately not, tweakers.net has a nice 'pricewatch' page, with detailed specs listed.

If you want PCIe 4.0 then the next step up is more than double the Price of the 3500X according to that Website:

https://tweakers.net/processors/ver...HDD_A6O7o8KgKzjY8tQ1O8nMKH0nmYiHSar3bnZ0daq1f

EDIT 1: I'm getting more and more confused by AMD Naming Scheme. The AMD Ryzen 5 3600 DOES support PCIe 4.0 but only 16 Lanes:

https://www.amd.com/en/support/downloads/drivers.html/processors/ryzen/ryzen-3000-series/amd-ryzen-5-3600.html

Heck even the AMD Ryzen 3 3100 DOES support PCIe 4.0 according to AMD own Website

https://www.amd.com/en/support/downloads/drivers.html/processors/ryzen/ryzen-3000-series/amd-ryzen-3-3100.html

And somewhat confirmed by TechPowerup (PCIe 4.0 with 16 Lanes):

AMD Ryzen 3 3100 Specs

Matisse, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.6 GHz, 65 W

www.techpowerup.com

EDIT 1: updated my Table adding Architecture and PCIe Version / # Lanes

EDIT 2: did somebody ever test if Cezanne is supported (AMD Ryzen 5 5500 / AMD Ryzen 5 5700) ? Funnily enough AMD Ryzen 5 5600 is listed as Vermeer