So I pulled the trigger and bought barebone J6413 from CWWK (barebone N5105 was sold out). ETA December, 2. Now time to decide on RAM, Disk, switch and AP 
Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report
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I think that since the WAN and LAN port are constantly communicating to something, even at idle, it should keep ASPM from kicking into any deep sleep state at least.
Found this post about C-state latency and intel servers, and it shows the exit latency for C3 as 70µs. I used to disable all C-states on my desktop because I wanted the lowest latency possible, but I enabled C3 a while ago and haven't noticed any difference in real-world performance, so hopefully the same is true for OPNsense. If it does cause any issues, you could also try enabling low power C-states for only 3 of the 4 cores, so one is always instantly available.
Just as another update : With the basic FQ-CoDel bandwidth limiter and AdGuard running, idle power is now 7W from the wall.
Regarding only the latency, the conclusion from your link is:
"In this article we have seen that processor power management has significant effect on response times with Hasura. Using the performance governor and disabling idle states improves the average latency by almost 50%."
From what I fast read, looks like C-states adds a few ms latency in their server.
I'll try to look into this when I receive my box.
The system was spending 90% of the time in C7, so deeper sleep. It doesn't look like they tested with the limit at C3.
I just set the cores to C1 and idle only increased 1W. Might as well just use stock settings at this point. lol
I guess because I added a couple extras (FQ-CoDel + AdGuard), the CPU is staying more active and not benefitting as much from C3.
Also tested C2 and the power draw is the same as C3, so there's that. Testing lower power C-states, down to C10, I saw no real difference in power draw.
EDIT : Looks like PowerD isn't doing anything either... Enabled or disabled, power draw is the same. With C2 enabled, CPU idles at 800MHz and boosts to 2.8GHz, with or without PowerD.
With C1 set, it idles around 2.3Ghz and boosts to 2.8
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I also wanted (encrypted) DNS server, NTP server, IP (blacklists) blocking and suricata/snort.
Sorry for the repeated questions regarding BIOS settings. Is it here where you enable/choose the C states of the system?
I didn't change the C-state settings in BIOS, those were left to defaults. I only modified the C-states under "Tuneables" in opnsense.
Well I thought the fake "Delta" PSU would be more crusty than it is. It seems reasonably well constructed and all components look new. If anything, it's overspec'd for a "4A" rating.
Also tried an OEM 12V 3A adapter that came with a hard drive enclosure. It has a "Level VI" efficiency rating, but idle power draw is exactly the same as the knockoff Delta.
I ordered a genuine Delta 3A PSU anyway, but I don't expect much improvement in idle power at this point.
Also tried an OEM 12V 3A adapter that came with a hard drive enclosure. It has a "Level VI" efficiency rating, but idle power draw is exactly the same as the knockoff Delta.
I ordered a genuine Delta 3A PSU anyway, but I don't expect much improvement in idle power at this point.
Hi All,
First post here and a lot of pages on these little devices. Looking to replace my current ubiquiti edge router with one of these for additional security and functionality provided via opnsense.
Seems like these suckers get a little hotter than expected but I will be aiming for the lower CPU models like the celeron or something (heck I'll take an atom since they are more than enough for routing and firewall).
If I get a topton/kingway/what ever other name these devices go by, how do I know I will be getting the latest revision? Other than applying new thermal paste to the copper plate, any other things I should be doing?
Consensus seems to be I should source my own hardware for this and potentially get the 40mm fan? Still don't know how affective it will be.
Thanks all
First post here and a lot of pages on these little devices. Looking to replace my current ubiquiti edge router with one of these for additional security and functionality provided via opnsense.
Seems like these suckers get a little hotter than expected but I will be aiming for the lower CPU models like the celeron or something (heck I'll take an atom since they are more than enough for routing and firewall).
If I get a topton/kingway/what ever other name these devices go by, how do I know I will be getting the latest revision? Other than applying new thermal paste to the copper plate, any other things I should be doing?
Consensus seems to be I should source my own hardware for this and potentially get the 40mm fan? Still don't know how affective it will be.
Thanks all
Get direct from Changwang, probably the best source and you can be shure you get the latest version. v5 is the latest. My v4 took about 14 days for shipping to Europe, shipping was done just the day after I orderd.
topton, king novy are all the same reseller, my personal experience with them was not the best...
I polished both sides of the cooper plate. Make sure there is no gap between cpu and cooper plate.
I tried with a 40mm noctua fan, other than noise i could not see any big differenc (maybe 1 or 2° C). with my Changwang v4 I got a 80x80x10mm fan, tuned a bit the pwm settings for silence, its about 5-10° C cooler (low rpm). You can ask changwang if they will add a fan for you.
That doesn't look too bad. Input filtering seems decent, common mode choke, capacitors and probably even a MOV in the bottom part for inrush limiting. I'd have preferred to see a 400V bulk capacitor in there, at 240V mains it'll get charged to 340V dc and it's way too high for my comfort zone on a 350V cap. The output part looks nice, it would be interesting to see how much ripple gets through the inductors and caps.
I'll take apart mine once I get a single psu for the whole rack, I suspect the build quality might be rather similar (same rating, similar label and different branding).
I'll add something besides what @Mike9474593 has already written.
The heatsink themselves, if left horizontally, have really bad thermal performance as there's no chimney effect created by the rising air inside the fins. Therefore, at idle or low loads you won't notice it, as there's a lot of thermal mass to soak heat. Once you start doing some more intensive stuff (as example suricata / intrusion detection), this issue becomes significantly more noticeable. My box runs a pentium 7505, with optimizations applied on the hypervisor side (proxmox 7.2). OPNsense VM running on 2 threads, Suricata full on on a ~200mbit line got me up to 65°C and 20-23W power draw. The ssd (sata) was running at 70-ish which is a bit too much for me.
A very simple solution, used by several users around here, is to attach a 120mm fan on an USB port and stick it on top of the unit. Some of us 3d printed an adapter, but also any other mounting systems will suffice. The fan will run at extermely low RPM at 5V and will be almost inaudible. My temps this way are Idle (10W) at 26-28°C, while full load (25-30W) is still below 50.
Which shipping method did you choose for Europe? Which EU country? I noticed CWWK doesn't offer DHL - and I'm a bit nervous with AliExpress Standard Shipping . . . Did you have to pay customs as well?
I've ordered mine from the "Topton Official store". Used seller's shipping method. I placed the order on october 15 (a Saturday), on Monday they shipped. Got the mini pc by regular mail on the 28th and no taxes required. Not even two weeks. I live in Italy, and my post system is know to be a bit slow at times.
Not EU but Switzerland. We have post paid taxes.
Shipping method was Singapore post, and I had to pay taxes (7.7% VAT and some fees) because the real value was declared (they said they can only declare the original value because of reasons). It is only tax free if value and shipping is under 65 US $.
Topton did only declare under 65$ when sellers shipping method was used, with DHL they declared about 67 US $ although thy confirmed me differently.
Yep, it does have an MOV on the input. Good point about the 240V mains, definitely cutting it too close to the cap rating.
I'll see if I can dig up a high power resistor to use as a load, and put it on the scope.
Fair warning, the PSU case is glued / welded together, fortunately this one was relatively easy to rip the bottom cover off without breaking anything. YMMV.
I am looking for the 6port variation and it doesn't seem like v5 is in that flavour I am looking for. What did they change with the 5th version?
What did you polish with? Usually with CPU's I remove paste with rubbing alcohol and apply one that does the job more efficiently.
Really? Noctua fans are usually really good but I guess 40mm wouldn't cut it. Would be nice if there was a method to mount a larger fan inside the chasis for better cooling but then again it would defeat the purpose of the small footprint. How do you ask Changwang to do this? Send an email?
Also, should one be worrying about BIOS updates for something like this?
Usually CPU coolers came with a good finish, but is not the case here
use some sandpaper with increasing grit for a nice polish. 600-800 grit should be enough..but with some extra couple passes over a 1000grit you can get a mirror-ish look
you need to do that as the copper surface is not finished well ....has machine markings on it ...and in my case it was not plane.
if you do that and reduce the gap between the cpu and copper, a fan is no longer necessary unless you run a really fast ssd and you hammer it .... other wise in normal firewall use is fine ..... but better get a lower speed SSD with a bigger cap then a fast one, and you will not feel the speed difference.
