what are the most cost effective v3 and v4 cpu right now?

wildpig1234

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Just want to get everyone's opinion on what is the most cost effective e5-26xx v3 and v4 cpu right now. I am sure most people know what I mean by most cost effective. Btw, please only look at price for oem/retail ver, not ES or QS

seems like e5-2670 is the most cost effective right now for the v1 followed by 2680?

for v3 I was just checking around seems like e5-2683 v3 is the most cost effective? e5-2683 v3 | eBay

I find it interesting that even though 2683 v3 is significantly lower clocked than 2670 v1, the single and quad core bench are pretty much similar. and obviously in multi core bench the 2683 kills the 2670 with like 70-80% higher mark.

what about for v4?

tempted to put together a new 2011 v3 system. seems like the 2011 2x e5-2670 I put together recently already too slow .... lol
 
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Patrick

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Intel does a (very) good job of pricing chips for specific workloads/ market. What are you thinking workload wise?

But yes, the used E5-2683 V3 deals are all over right now.
 

wildpig1234

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Intel does a (very) good job of pricing chips for specific workloads/ market. What are you thinking workload wise?

But yes, the used E5-2683 V3 deals are all over right now.
Multicore computational. boinc. I guess I could use as many core/ghz as I can affordably get. I don't have a huge funding so I really like a good value and stress more on that rather than just raw faster speed at insanely more expensive diminished return.

so you see anything better valuewise at this time than e5-2683 for the v3? guess v4 is still too recent to be cheaper? how much better valuewise do you see of e5-2683 v3 over e5-2670 after figuring in also the mb and ram cost?

obviously, I am talking about dual cpu configuration right now..... not talking about single core b/c that's not an effective use for xeon and quad cpu is just too expensive.
 

T_Minus

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You can use as many cores/ghz, curious if you don't mind... what are you doing?
 

fractal

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Strangely enough I still find the dual LGA1366 systems competitive for Boinc. Of course it depends on the project. There are some that are so memory bound that they don't make efficient use of high core processors. I have been pricing dual 2011 crunch boxes's for a while now and even with the very attractive price on the 2670's, a dual 5670/5675 still wins the cobbles/day/dollar due to motherboard prices.

The million dollar question is how they compare on the cobbles/day/watt since operating costs will dominate the cost of your hobby after a couple of years.

BOINC. It's not just a hobby. It is an addiction. And I'm hooked too :(
 

wildpig1234

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So I m guessing that a dual 2683 v3 would probably be about 80% faster than my current dual 2670 v1 for heavily threaded apps and about the same speed for single core or 4 core apps? Seems like the cost of would be about 1200$ for 2x cpu, mb, and 128gb rams?

As far as ram goes it still not as good of a deal as non ecc ddr3 compared to the hugely cheaper ecc ddr3. Sigh... wonder when is the next server recycling fire sale from big data companies
 

RobertFontaine

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You can put together a pretty darn nice v1 2670 dual cpu node for about $500 with junk.

Pricing out a v3/v4 node with ddr4 and cpu I would guess the price is closer to $1500.
There are lots of reasons why a v3/4 cpu might make more sense but value is a tough one if you can scale across nodes.

Each generation is about 6 or 7% better than the previous and the v1 is 3 generations behind the v3. I don't see how you get 80% out of that no matter how you do math.

Don't get me wrong I'd like the bestest, fastest, biggest and baddest but at $500 per dual cpu node w/ 128gb of ram I don't see much value in ddr4+v3/v4.

I personally want one of those nice 4u xeon phi knl boxes preconfigured and delivered to my door ;)
 

T_Minus

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"As you can see, if you are still utilizing a 2010 vintage Westmere-EP server, you get about 35% more IPC from Broadwell. If you want evidence of this, you can see our Intel Xeon D-1528 benchmarks where we compared a Broadwell 6C/ 12T Xeon D to a Westmere EP 6C/ 12T part, and the Broadwell was much faster. On the other hand, for 5-6% performance gain in single threaded IPC improvements, the upgrade from Haswell looks less tantalizing. Sandy Bridge-EP had a maximum of 8 cores / 16 threads so moving to the top end of Broadwell-EP now gives you 275% the core count and over 20% IPC gains per core which is very compelling."

Source: Intel Xeon E5-2600 V4 "Broadwell-EP" Launched - First Benchmarks

It's not 80% but it's a big jump from 1366/Westmere-EP -- add in that you're going from 12 to 14C total to 14C on a SINGLE CPU with an E5-2683 V3 and the % improvement is rather a HUGE jump :) not to mention it will be cooler, and suck less electric while providing more... If you keep your systems for 5+ years there's NO WAY I'd consider 1366, and maybe 2670 depending on current/projected usage.
 

wildpig1234

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"As you can see, if you are still utilizing a 2010 vintage Westmere-EP server, you get about 35% more IPC from Broadwell. If you want evidence of this, you can see our Intel Xeon D-1528 benchmarks where we compared a Broadwell 6C/ 12T Xeon D to a Westmere EP 6C/ 12T part, and the Broadwell was much faster. On the other hand, for 5-6% performance gain in single threaded IPC improvements, the upgrade from Haswell looks less tantalizing. Sandy Bridge-EP had a maximum of 8 cores / 16 threads so moving to the top end of Broadwell-EP now gives you 275% the core count and over 20% IPC gains per core which is very compelling."

Source: Intel Xeon E5-2600 V4 "Broadwell-EP" Launched - First Benchmarks

It's not 80% but it's a big jump from 1366/Westmere-EP -- add in that you're going from 12 to 14C total to 14C on a SINGLE CPU with an E5-2683 V3 and the % improvement is rather a HUGE jump :) not to mention it will be cooler, and suck less electric while providing more... If you keep your systems for 5+ years there's NO WAY I'd consider 1366, and maybe 2670 depending on current/projected usage.
ok not 80% but more like 60%. Here's a comparison between e5-2670 v1 vs e5-2683 v3. single cpu vs single cpu:

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Xeon-E5-2683-v3-vs-Intel-Xeon-E5-2670/m83844vsm18501

single and quad core are comparable even though the e5-2683 v3 is significantly lower in clockspeed. while there is no contest when it comes to heavily threaded multicore.

I am not comparing 8 core vs 8 core between v1 and v3. I am comparing best value of v1 vs best value of v3 if that makes sense.....

Here's x5650 vs e5-2683 v3: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Xeon-E5-2683-v3-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5650/m83844vsm355

very obvious that for single and quad core, the x5650 is still very relevant but once you get to heavily threaded apps, of course there is no more comparison.
 

T_Minus

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@wildpig1234 I'm a bit confused about your reply so I'm thinking my reply must have come off wrong... I'm agreeing with you that they're way more powerful, more energy efficient, run cooler, and if you can afford it the way to go. You don't need heavily threaded apps to take advantage of the increased cores of v3 or v4 you could run some form of virtualization as well. DDR3 is dead so investing in it is useless for the future too, take that into account... unless you have other systems you plan to keep in use that need DDR3.

I personally use an E5-2670 V3 in my home all-in-one, v1 in around a dozen systems and around a half dozen E5-2683 V3 so I'm rather familiar with the CPU you're looking at ;) I used to run the x5650/60/70 for a brief time at home and even longer in the data-center, and even for things as simple as a web-server upgrading from an x5650 to Ivy generation was noticeable on the avg. server load. so much that I haven't touched my Ivy or Sandy systems in the datacenter yet... I'm really considering 2017 as the year to replace them :)
 

wildpig1234

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I was actually meant to quote Robert :).

e5-2670 v3 doesn't quite make any sense: Intel Xeon E5-2670 v3 12-Core 2.3GHz SR1XS Haswell-EP LGA2011-3 CPU Processor

compared to e5-2683 v3 : Intel Xeon E5-2683 v3 OEM/Retail SR1XH LGA2011-3 Compatible X99 i7-5960X

much cheaper price. you give up .3 ghz for 2 more cores. Benchmark shows e5-2670 v3 is barely any faster than 2683 v3 at single and quad and is definitely slower at multicore. so for the prices there, e5-2683 v3 wins hand down. and this is exactly what I mean best value for the money.

See benchmark:

e5-2670 v3: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/26886/IntelR-XeonR-CPU-E5-2670-v3---230GHz
e5-2683 v3: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/83844/IntelR-XeonR-CPU-E5-2683-v3---200GHz

so as far as v3 goes. does anyone has any other suggestion that has more value and I repeat the word value , than e5-2683 v3?

if anyone knows of a good combo deal, let me know too. :)
 

wildpig1234

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is this the cheapest dual cpu 2011 v3 board? was hoping to find one in eeb format. this atx format one is compact but it render that top 8x pcie slot useless almost.
 

wildpig1234

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seems like the e5-2686 v3 pretty good but I can't find much of that around anymore....
 

T_Minus

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@wildpig1234 keep in mind that losing 2 cores or gaining 4 cores, etc... is only relevant if you're going on "set" prices. This is ebay we're talking about here ;) ;) if you have time be patient and wait for a "deal". Obviously have a list of CPUs you want but if you could pickup one with a couple less cores for 150-200$ less seems like a pretty good value to me :)

It's hard to talk 'concrete value' when you're talking about auctions and ebay deals :)

I try to keep an open mind when looking for deals as often I can find "even better" SSD, CPU, etc... for LESS than the average sale price of lower-end parts.... so even if a part is say $800 and you only want to pay $500 no biggy!!!! put that on your saved search on ebay, and keep an eye on it... ideally if you want to find the BEST deals you need to manually search ebay a few times per-day! Don't be afraid to low-ball for 1 item, and then when the seller counters low-ball again but go up to 2 items, etc... lots of little strategies :) Most sellers I've purchased 2+ items from ask to be contacted direct for even better deals if you're comfortable with that, and I"ve done repeat business with many sellers this way over the last few years.


Sorry for the long 'deal' post but if you can wait you can find pretty much what you want for what you want to pay ;)
Sometimes when I look at "SOLD" Listings I think I could do EVEN BETTER!!! @Marsh is the king of Auction Style listings and if that's doable for you, then play the auction game for even better listings!! I always lose out on the last 5 minutes as I don't have any snipe-programs, etc... maybe I should !! HAHA
 

fractal

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@wildpig1234 I personally use an E5-2670 V3 in my home all-in-one, v1 in around a dozen systems and around a half dozen E5-2683 V3 so I'm rather familiar with the CPU you're looking at ;) I used to run the x5650/60/70 for a brief time at home and even longer in the data-center, and even for things as simple as a web-server upgrading from an x5650 to Ivy generation was noticeable on the avg. server load. so much that I haven't touched my Ivy or Sandy systems in the datacenter yet... I'm really considering 2017 as the year to replace them :)
Did I misread the OP who said he wanted number crunchers for BOINC? If so, avg. server load for a web server might be interesting but not overly applicable.

Different projects emphasis different aspects of computing. That's one of the things that interest me about it. Some let you dive into GPU processing. Others stress the multi threading of your gear. A few care about how much cache you have. Others are pure number crunching. And, a small number care about memory bandwidth.

I point to Top hosts for those who care. It changes with time so what you read tomorrow may not match what I am seeing today.

It shows my dual 5670 and dual 5675 boxes beating dual 2670 boxes by a noticeably margin. Heck, my single processor 4790K is holding its own against a the dual E5 boxes. You won't see that happen in a data center or in a on a benchmark site. Ok, ok, that 4790 isn't exactly stock, but ;)

Don't get me wrong. I would not deploy lga1366 in a data center. I won't use any of my LGA1366 boards for home servers. The chipsets draw too much power. I dropped 100 watts from my file server in progress by yanking a LGA1366 board and replacing it with an LGA1155 board. And yes, I realize that servers are the specialty of this forum. But for a BOINC box? Ok, ok, I am a BOINC junkie as well as a computer nerd who likes to play with servers on the side.

If I was in a data centre and I had a service contract and watts meant something and.... ;)
3 2670 nodes vs 1 v3 node is the actual comparison dollar for dollar however.
1 V3 node, 3 2670 nodes or 6 X5675 nodes. Your electric bill will prefer the 1 v3 node. Your boinc ranking, on the other hand...
 

wildpig1234

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I am talking about total effective computation heavily thread power bang for buck. so if you do lose a few tenth of ghz but gain a couple of cores, depending how much lost ghz and gained core, your total effective computation power might actually increase.

As far as cost effectiveness, I would argue that for heavily thread apps, 2x e5-2670 is probably more cost effective than 2x x56xx for how much you are paying for the cost of cpu, rams, MB, esp with deals from natex.... I haven't seen any good deal for v3 yet but if anyone know one please let us know ;)
 

wildpig1234

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e5-2686 v3 seems like a very interesting nice one with a huge numbers of cores and not too bad clockspeed. but they seem so rare ;(.. you can't even find it on intel site ??!!
 

fractal

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I am talking about total effective computation heavily thread power bang for buck. so if you do lose a few tenth of ghz but gain a couple of cores, depending how much lost ghz and gained core, your total effective computation power might actually increase.
So, we are back to what Patrick and T_Minus asked. Doing what?

A million HP motor on a scooter is gonna be slower than a 200 HP motor in a sports car. Multiplying cores * threads * ghz is clearly one metric of performance but does not reflect the real world until you factor in things like memory bandwidth.
As far as cost effectiveness, I would argue that for heavily thread apps, 2x e5-2670 is probably more cost effective than 2x x56xx for how much you are paying for the cost of cpu, rams, MB, esp with deals from natex....
Not really. A pair of dual 2650's in boxes are a grand at Natex. A pair of dual 2670's on motherboard with memory is the same thousand dollars without a case. Four x5675's are under 400 that can go in a 300 dollar fat twin. And, as I showed earlier, it would take three of the dual e5 boxes to get close to the delivered computational capability of two of the dual x5670's running that one sample BOINC project.

Which brings us back to ... Doing what?

Or is this a mental exercise to maximize cores * ghz?

If so, then yeah the dual e5-2670's at 16*2.6=41.6 is bigger than the x5675's at 12*3.06=36.7 even though the x5675 does more than 1.5 times the work.

You did say BOINC, right? If so, what handle do you crunch under. I don't see anything under wildpig.

If not, I'll shut up ..
 

T_Minus

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It's rather difficult to discuss "value" and "deals" for items and exclude power ;) at-least for me it is.

All I'm trying to say is the IPC from 1366 to 2011-v3 is drastic, and when you account for the reduced power (rather significant imho) there's a much stronger case to spend more for v3, especially for longevity and reusable parts (ddr4) for future builds. Now factor in the increased cores with the increased IPC and the case is even stronger.

1- 2x E5-2670, 128GB, Motherboard ~$500 (16 Cores)
2- 2x E5-2683, 128GB, Motherboard ~$1500 (28 Cores)

There's so many variables for "value" it's really hard to talk on that point without getting specifically exactly your budget, what your usage is, etc... :)