WD DC HC530 4Kn not detected with LSI SAS2008 IT or LSI SAS3224 HBA

[Mat71]

Dear all,
What a great community !

I'm coming here seeking help to have my WD DC HC530 drives detected by the system.

The story : upgrading my NAS, I purchased 4x drives with this reference.
WD HGST HC530 WUH721414ALN600 14TB SATA 6Gb/s 512MB 4kn 3.5" HDD 0F31100
After unboxing, they are is pristine physical condition and are advertised with less than 500 power on hours.

The problem : none of the drive are detected by any SATA or SAS controller.
I tried multiple motherboards, cables, powersupplies. No luck.
Tried also LSI SAS2008 in IT mode, LSI SAS3224 HBA. No luck
In all combination, other SATA or SAS drives are detected.
I don't think this is a Power Disable (Pin3) issue since the drive spinup and are powered via a molex adapter.

The ebay seller told me those drives were tested successfully in a Supermicro server, one that has with a backplane.

So I am wondering if any of you have had such issue with drives that are SATA, still not visible to the system.
Best

 

[DavidWJohnston]

I believe the problem is those are AF Advanced Format 4kn (4K sector size) drives which are not compatible with older RAID cards. See this article:

Compatibility Pain Points: 4Kn Hard Drives and Backwards Compatibility with RAID Controllers

With the advances in hard drive technology, manufacturers have started taking advantage of higher hard drive density so that you, the consumer, can get the most bang for the buck. If you have ever heard the term “4Kn” in a hard drive’s specs – this is a relatively recent development in hard...

techmikeny.com

There is a special formatting called 512e that's supposed to be backward compatible with older RAID cards, and depending on the model it might be possible to switch your drives from 4Kn to 512e using some kind of tool or low-level ATA command and then they'd work. But I don't know... See this:

How to convert the Western Digital "Ultrastar® DC HC530 14TB HDD" from 512e to 4Kn sector size? (In Windows 10)

Background The Western Digital "Ultrastar® DC HC530 14TB HDD" (Model number: WUH721414ALE6L4)(SATA Interface) comes only in a 512e sector size by default. According to the 2 Western Digital

superuser.com

I guess you could also upgrade your RAID controller. Kind of a pain, I hope you get it sorted.

Maybe another user will have personal experience with this and can shed more light on it.

Good luck, and welcome!

 

[Mat71]

I believe the problem is those are AF Advanced Format 4kn (4K sector size) drives which are not compatible with older RAID cards. See this article:

Compatibility Pain Points: 4Kn Hard Drives and Backwards Compatibility with RAID Controllers

With the advances in hard drive technology, manufacturers have started taking advantage of higher hard drive density so that you, the consumer, can get the most bang for the buck. If you have ever heard the term “4Kn” in a hard drive’s specs – this is a relatively recent development in hard...

techmikeny.com

There is a special formatting called 512e that's supposed to be backward compatible with older RAID cards, and depending on the model it might be possible to switch your drives from 4Kn to 512e using some kind of tool or low-level ATA command and then they'd work. But I don't know... See this:

How to convert the Western Digital "Ultrastar® DC HC530 14TB HDD" from 512e to 4Kn sector size? (In Windows 10)

Background The Western Digital "Ultrastar® DC HC530 14TB HDD" (Model number: WUH721414ALE6L4)(SATA Interface) comes only in a 512e sector size by default. According to the 2 Western Digital

superuser.com

I guess you could also upgrade your RAID controller. Kind of a pain, I hope you get it sorted.

Maybe another user will have personal experience with this and can shed more light on it.

Good luck, and welcome!

Thanks David, I'll investigate the 4Kn incompatibility. Maybe an incompatibility between the drive and the SAS3224 / LSI SAS9305-16i controller

 

[oneplane]

If your controllers are in plain HBA mode (so no firmware interference) it should be less of an issue, so I'm wondering what's going on here considering you're mentioning IT mode and HBA models.

 

[mr44er]

LSI SAS2008 in IT-Mode has no limitations with sector size. I have 4kn drives hooked to a SAS2008.

If you say that even your test on native SATA port on a mainboard does not work, then it's something other.

Bad guess without knowing anything: maybe a new type of vendor lock to prevent shucking.

Edit:

powered via a molex adapter.

Try to avoid that adapter. Try native SATA power from your power adapter.
When you connect native SATA, do you have AHCI as mode for this port in BIOS activated?

Edit2:
My mentioned working 4kn drive is SAS. Maybe this limit only refers to SATA...can't confirm, as I don't have any 4kn SATA disk.
But if the drive isn't detected at all, even on native SATA port, then it should have nothing to do with the format.

 

[mach3.2]

Might be the cable?

Afaik later firmware versions on the SAS2008 controller should support 4Kn drives (SATA/SAS). The LSI SAS3224 controller should also support 4Kn drives.

Edit: The drive won't work with a plain SATA to SATA cable? In that case maybe send the drive back while you can.

 

[Mat71]

Dear all, thanks for suggesting investigation options.

As to SAS2008 in IT mode and SAS3224 HBA, tested both with SAS 4Kn drives and it works.
Tried powering the drives via a molex adapter or a native SATA power connector, drive spins up but is not detected.
Tried AHCI and RAID modes when both options are available, no luck, not detected.
Tried and purchased new SATA cables, no luck.

I was wondering if the Instant Secure Erase would prevent the drive to be detect; I refer to the "N" in ALN model number.

That until I connected the drive to a Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H which has an Intel SATA controller.
Aha! The drive is detected ... as a 951GB drive, not a 14TB one. At least not totally a fail.
But that is the only mobo that detects it.

@mr44er indeed maybe a thing with 4Kn and SATA (not SAS)
Hope not a vendor lock-in!

 

[mr44er]

Afaik later firmware versions on the SAS2008 controller should support 4Kn drives (SATA/SAS).


mps0@pci0:4:0:0: class=0x010700 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00 vendor=0x1000 device=0x0072 subvendor=0x1028 subdevice=0x1f1c
vendor = 'Broadcom / LSI'
device = 'SAS2008 PCI-Express Fusion-MPT SAS-2 [Falcon]'
class = mass storage
subclass = SAS

mps0 Adapter:
Board Name: SAS9211-8i
Board Assembly:
Chip Name: LSISAS2008
Chip Revision: ALL
BIOS Revision: 0.00.00.00 <-- no BIOS intended
Firmware Revision: 20.00.07.00 <-- should be latest
Integrated RAID: no
SATA NCQ: ENABLED
PCIe Width/Speed: x8 (5.0 GB/sec)
IOC Speed: Full
Temperature: Unknown/Unsupported <- fun fact: on FreeBSD and with newer chips this works :)

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Vendor: HGST
Product: HUS726040AL4210
Revision: AD05
Compliance: SPC-4
User Capacity: 4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
Logical block size: 4096 bytes
LU is fully provisioned


The LSI SAS3224 controller should also support 4Kn

I don't know exactly this model, but if it's an abomination of these 1001 different versions of SAS3008, then yes and with generic LSI firmware:

mpr0 Adapter:
Board Name: SAS9300-8i
Board Assembly:
Chip Name: LSISAS3008
Chip Revision: ALL
BIOS Revision: 0.00.00.00
Firmware Revision: 16.00.12.00
Integrated RAID: no
SATA NCQ: ENABLED
PCIe Width/Speed: x4 (8.0 GB/sec)
IOC Speed: Full
Temperature: 97 C

Damn hot beast, this is with cooler!

 

[Mat71]

@mr44er I checked and have the latest firmware on both controllers.
The SAS9305-16i (SAS3224) is running hot doing nothing and was advised to have a good airflow in the case. I wonder if temperature could also be lower by replacing the thermal pad with thin layer of premium thermal paste. Will try that after I know the drives are working properly.

 

[mr44er]

is running hot doing nothing and was advised to have a good airflow in the case.

Yes, totally. Otherwise, they overheat instantly.

I wonder if temperature could also be lower by replacing the thermal pad with thin layer of premium thermal paste.

Also yes, I've done that. The original pad will mostly be dry if you bought the card second hand, but don't expect wonders with paste, maybe 4-5° C lower. The problem is that the chip is so fckn tiny...a Noctua NF-A4x10 or with enough space NF-A4x20 will help most and a bigger case...4HE or Tower.
Check this (answer from LSI): LSI MegaRAID Expected Chip Temperature?

Cooling LSI 2308 Onboard HBA

I had some heat issues with my LSI SAS controller and drives kept disappearing - it cost me a motherboard. So I thought I'd share a quick tutorial on adding cooling fans to my controllers (there are two, one that runs ports 0-3, and the second for ports 4-7). The heatsinks covering the LSI...

www.truenas.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/unRAID/comments/g8g429

Cooling Suggestions for LSI SAS card? (LSI 9207-8i)

I recently had an LSI 9211 SAS card die on me and i'm fairly sure it's because cooling was inadequate. Despite the whole internet telling me they need decent airflow, I decided to chance it in a tiny case (U-NAS NSC-800) with limited airflow. So while a replacement (LSI 9207-8i) is en route, i'm...

hardforum.com

Aha! The drive is detected ... as a 951GB drive, not a 14TB one. At least not totally a fail.

Good to know, this board would be a candidate for diag/flashing.
But I don't know how far you can/should go...if nothing helps and you want to return the disks...
I've seen some things, secure features of disks are nothing anymore what reflashing firmware could easily fix. Not impossible, but the locks are better.

 

[Mat71]

@mr44er what would you recommend to diag/flash the HGST drives ?

New tests and still failed. Unless I can diag someting, I'll raise a request for refund.

 

[mr44er]

Tricky...

After unboxing, they are is pristine physical condition and are advertised with less than 500 power on hours.

Made me think about: https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...30-14tb-at-too-good-to-be-true-pricing.29333/
Only 500hours and then selling them is suspicious. This is longer than a function check/health scan would need. Only good explanation would be that he needed big storage for short time temporary for copying.

Can you check if WUH721414ALN600 is correct and this is the same on the sticker? If these were stolen there was likely an attempt to manipulate the serial number, which is in the firmware and in reserved space. If this goes wrong, firmware gets corrupted and you have such effects.

If this is ok until here, you can check with the half-working mainboard and HDAT2: HDAT2 Download

Do only read commands, look for general info, make screenshots (bad from DOS, I know). Look for the serial, what is the firmware version? What do the VPD pages say? How many LBAs are shown? How much capacity does the disk show in HDAT? What does the DCO pages say? Any locking/SED?

 

[Mat71]

Latest update.
After so many attempts, and failures, I send the drivers back (from France to US) and got a refund.
don't know yet if seller tested the drives and if they work.