Wake on LAN isn't OS-independant?

[hunterjwizzard]

This may be a dumb question; but my understanding of the Wake on LAN protocol was that it's OS-independent and hardware-based. It should be able to remotely turn on a computer even if it has no hard disk/SSD/boot drive of any kind attached. This is how I recall being told it worked and how I recall using it 15 odd years ago.

I recently wanted to configure WoL and started reading up on it, but am finding all kinds of windows settings. I find this really confusing since if a machine is "off" it shouldn't matter how the software is configured. What's changed or what am I missing?

 

[klui]

There's definitely an OS dependency. People, including myself, have experienced systems running Windows 10 will not wake up from a magic packet if fast boot was enabled. Linux might play nicer but if you have a system that last used Windows 10 and it had the default settings WoL may not work. Driver and BIOS settings all look good. Latest driver installed as well.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Yeah I've checked all the bios settings twice. If there are windows settings that can impact it, I officially give up on using WoL. Do not want to have to troubleshoot the system after every windows update. I used to do RDP on all my systems, gave up and went with a KVM after the 6th time windows update broke it.

Are there any other solutions for remote power on/off that really are OS-independent? My workstation has BMC, which is wonderful for it but doesn't help me so much for the other machines that I actually do need to turn on. I've also looked into using a PDU but that doesn't get the systems to boot. My next ridiculous brainstorm was to do something insane with a raspberry pi, but that seems to involve making changes to the PSU motherboard cable and I really don't like to trust my own soldering in any scenario that could result in a fire.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Also, am I crazy, or has it always been this way? I swear I used to wake up boards with no OS...

 

[nickf1227]

It's not an OS thing: its a BIOS/UEFI thing.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

But then how are settings in windows breaking it?

 

[nickf1227]

It's not. Someone above just stated that Fast Boot being enabled was causing the problem.

Secure Boot may also be a factor.

These are both UEFI features.

 

[klui]

The particular motherboard was in legacy mode, secure boot not active.

In Windows 7 you can go into the NIC's driver settings and turn off WoL features. Shut down and the system won't wake up if sent a magic packet. OS definitely has an affect on WoL.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

I've personally tried just about every bios and windows setting I can find with no luck. I know it DOES work because I've seen it used(and used it myself) but I cannot seem to make it work. I'm currently searching for some kind of out of band management solution for desktop PCs, but such things do not seem to exist. My next brilliant(read: "stupid") idea is tto try extending the power button over cat5.

 

[klui]

A lot of Intel desktops these days have Intel AMT/ME. You can enable it and power up your system that way.

 

[EffrafaxOfWug]

On windows at the very least you'll need hardware that supports being put in a WoL state, a driver that supports the hardware being put in a WoL-enabled state, plus a BIOS that's capable of bringing up the system when it gets a signal from a WoL-enabled NIC. Usually none of these options will be enabled by default since they result in higher power consumption when the machine is turned off, and there's no unified interface for turning them on.

I seem to remember some bizarre problems with this under windows in the past (NetBIOS being one of them) and there were certainly a load of crappy NIC vendors whose drivers didn't support WoL under windows at all (and quite possible drivers for a NIC under Windows X might support WoL but the drivers for Windows X+1 might not).

WoL in linux is somewhat simpler in that the method for enabling WoL is universal and almost all of the NIC drivers support it, but you can still run in to issues with BIOS support.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned and should work if you know when the machine is to be powered up next is to set an RTC wake alarm before you shut the computer down. IIRC if you set a "wake the computer to perform this task" you'll set an RTC wake in the BIOS and the machine will hopefully fire up and the correct time.

TLDR: WoL is dependent on hardware and software and depending on your env can be a PITA to get working. There's a reason why people prefer BMCs or baby-BMCs like AMT for remote power-on.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

A lot of Intel desktops these days have Intel AMT/ME. You can enable it and power up your system that way.

I have heard of that but can't seem to locate any free software for managing it. All I find are about 9 million different WoL programs none of which work.

On windows at the very least you'll need hardware that supports being put in a WoL state, a driver that supports the hardware being put in a WoL-enabled state, plus a BIOS that's capable of bringing up the system when it gets a signal from a WoL-enabled NIC. Usually none of these options will be enabled by default since they result in higher power consumption when the machine is turned off, and there's no unified interface for turning them on.

I seem to remember some bizarre problems with this under windows in the past (NetBIOS being one of them) and there were certainly a load of crappy NIC vendors whose drivers didn't support WoL under windows at all (and quite possible drivers for a NIC under Windows X might support WoL but the drivers for Windows X+1 might not).

WoL in linux is somewhat simpler in that the method for enabling WoL is universal and almost all of the NIC drivers support it, but you can still run in to issues with BIOS support.

This would all seem to indicate that, no, WoL is not OS-independent. I've already wasted enough time trying to make it work that I really don't want to bother with it; it seems to be way too finicky in the desktop market(and servers have BMC).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned and should work if you know when the machine is to be powered up next is to set an RTC wake alarm before you shut the computer down. IIRC if you set a "wake the computer to perform this task" you'll set an RTC wake in the BIOS and the machine will hopefully fire up and the correct time.

TLDR: WoL is dependent on hardware and software and depending on your env can be a PITA to get working. There's a reason why people prefer BMCs or baby-BMCs like AMT for remote power-on.

Unfortunately I don't have any kind of set schedule. In case you're curious, what I'm doing is I have a pair of gaming machines I use to multi-box on an MMO. I only get to use them sporadically a couple of times a week at very odd intervals. I used to just leave them on full-time, but that was eating up a lot of power; plus the room I run them in has no airconditioning and it's now summer.

Obviously its not a *huge* imposition to get up, walk into the other room, and hit a power button; but I'd really prefer to be able to turn them on and off remotely.

I'll start looking more into AMT.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Well, that was a wash. Per intel's site:

Remote Power Management of Intel® AMT Devices with InstantGo
InstantGo*, also known as Connected Standby*, creates a low OS power state that must be handled differently from how remote power management was handled in the past. This article provides information on how to support the InstantGo feature.

AMT isn't remote power-on, its "let's not really turn the machine off"

Its starting to look like this is an impossible dream.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Well I did a little more digging and discovered there exist "remote power switches", essentially third-party BMCs that do little more than control power and reset switches. This is actually all I need... but the technology hasn't actually gotten anywhere useful yet. They come in 2 flavors; one uses a fob(meaning you have to be in the same room as the computer); the other uses a smartphone app for a brand of phone I don't have.

Why is it whenever people are building these stupid IoT things, they think "oh, only people with smartphones will want to use this product!" It cannot possibly take that much extra effort to make a desktop "app" that does the same bloody thing.

 

[klui]

I don't use AMT/ME but here's a screenshot from Intel vPro: Three Generations Of Remote Management from around 10 years ago. There are many versions and it is important to know what version is on your system.

"Cycle power off and on" is what I would try.

The other option involves additional hardware. You can always get a switched PDU and set in the BIOS to save power state to last state. It would mean you need to reboot your system and shut power using the PDU instead of the normal procedure. Next time you power on the outlet it should turn on.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Yeah the AMT unfortunately doesn't allow power on from actual powered-off state and is just as tricky to implement as WoL(at least as my cursory searching indicates).

Have contemplated the PDU route as well. Remote PDUs can be had for about $40 on ebay, but I'm concerned that there's a reason WHY they are only $40 and that that reason is because they're terrible.

 

[klui]

Remote PDUs can be had for about $40 on ebay, but I'm concerned that there's a reason WHY they are only $40 and that that reason is because they're terrible.

Good
Cheap
Fast

Choose any 2.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

So I stumbled across this thing on the internet:

WiFi Relay Switch Module WiFi eWelink APP Remote Controlled Timer Switch Card for Turn On/Off Computer PC Starting Up Card Software, Compatible with Alexa Echo Google Home: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

WiFi Relay Switch Module WiFi eWelink APP Remote Controlled Timer Switch Card for Turn On/Off Computer PC Starting Up Card Software, Compatible with Alexa Echo Google Home: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

smile.amazon.com

Basically a poor-man's BMC; all it can do is control power and reset switches, but that's all I need. Supposedly according to the manufacturer I can control it from my desktop using something called " IFTTT".

But, if I'm being honest... I'll probably just end up using the alexa functionality.

 

[nasi]

Do you have a BIOS setting that will turn the PC automatically on if power returns? Then you could use any controllable power socket.

I'm using Homematic switches and OpenHAB for power control. Via webcontrol in any Browser or dedicated remote control. I even have one Homematic Switch with Power Meter - so I can make nice charts with InfluxDB and Grafana to see how much power my server draws.
OpenHAB can run on a RasPi or in a VM, supports a huge number of different hardware and is Open Source. Plus: no security or privacy concerns attached.

But any cheap remote controlled power socket you can buy in hardware store would do the job.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

I've got a network of smartplugs to control lights and monitors.

Problem I have is they default to "on" and I live in an area with a spotty power grid. I actually discovered the "automatic power on when power returns function" when a 1 am power outage switched my PC on.

Are the Homematic plugs "smart" enough to stay off if mains power goes out and comes back on? I know my TPlinks aren't