SAS SSD or Nmve SSD

jei · Nov 25, 2023

I had a problem with Micron 7450 Pro + AOC-SLG3-4E4T + Icy Dock MB699VP-B V3 combo. After changing to AOC-SLG4-4E4T everything works well now. Updated from 8x8TB Samsung PM983 to 4x16TB Microns. Microns run cooler than Samsung. That is to be expected because of the pretty big integrated heat sink.

sko · Nov 25, 2023

Tech Junky said:
@studiox

I tried the micron 7450 and ended up sending them back because they lost their partition table. One lasted a few hours and the other less than a week. I switched to Kioxia and it's been flawless for a couple of months now. Someone else I was talking to though put a couple in his system and they haven't been an issue though.

Also, the Kioxia run cooler.

we run micron 7400 and 7450s everywhere and they run fine.
"loosing a partition table" also doesn't sound like a typical hard drive error... was this by any chance with some (pseudo) hw-raid that does some proprietary on-disk-format?

Tech Junky · Nov 25, 2023

sko said:
we run micron 7400 and 7450s everywhere and they run fine.
"loosing a partition table" also doesn't sound like a typical hard drive error... was this by any chance with some (pseudo) hw-raid that does some proprietary on-disk-format?

No raid involved just the disk running as a single disk. Tried two drives from two vendors and same result. I found it odd and had a flashback to how USB flash would do it towards end of life.

CyklonDX · Nov 25, 2023

The ssd's end of endurance result into slow down into crawl (into floppy speeds).
(if it supports trim - its worth running it in some cases they will loose space - you won't loose data already written though.)

The issue with corrupted partition table is related to failing hardware (cpu, memory), power loss, and/or too much power going into the cells.
SAS3 SSDs are better in terms of endurance vs nvme/u.2. Devices directly on pcie are more prone to memory, and cpu issues if there are no ecc memory in the system.

Tech Junky · Nov 25, 2023

CyklonDX said:
The issue with corrupted partition table is related to failing hardware (cpu, memory), power loss, and/or too much power going into the cells.

Well, none of that seems to apply in my case. I would go to access data and it just wouldn't allow it. Reboot and then the drive partitions were gone. I could still see the drive in lspci but couldn't manage it or run commands against it. Very odd and something I hadn't seen in the decades I've been working with tech. The machine was Intel based on 24/7 and I switched to AMD after testing the Kioxia and seeing it not fail. The switch to AMD though was already planned for expanding storage options with bifurcation of slots.

jei · Nov 25, 2023

Tech Junky said:
Well, none of that seems to apply in my case. I would go to access data and it just wouldn't allow it. Reboot and then the drive partitions were gone. I could still see the drive in lspci but couldn't manage it or run commands against it. Very odd and something I hadn't seen in the decades I've been working with tech. The machine was Intel based on 24/7 and I switched to AMD after testing the Kioxia and seeing it not fail. The switch to AMD though was already planned for expanding storage options with bifurcation of slots.

Sounds more like an internal controller failure than "losing partition table." I lost one PM983 pretty much like this.

CyklonDX · Nov 25, 2023

Tech Junky said:
Well, none of that seems to apply in my case. I would go to access data and it just wouldn't allow it. Reboot and then the drive partitions were gone. I could still see the drive in lspci but couldn't manage it or run commands against it. Very odd and something I hadn't seen in the decades I've been working with tech. The machine was Intel based on 24/7 and I switched to AMD after testing the Kioxia and seeing it not fail. The switch to AMD though was already planned for expanding storage options with bifurcation of slots.

Is it a u.2/nvme? or sas/sata ssd (if those controller? Some older dell controllers weren't pushing TRIM command)
Depending on model, and conditions it ran as mentioned by jei above could be some controller failure, but most likely failure is on solder balls - the non-lead solder used on chips really kills them easily if you have large temp variations (heavy load/temps for an hour, then nothing for an hour and such).

mr44er · Nov 27, 2023

Tech Junky said:
One lasted a few hours and the other less than a week.

That's sad.

2x Micron 7400 here, running since 4 months, 2x Micron 7450 ~2 months. No problems, everything smooth but my first job was flashing last firmware and I gave them active cooling.

sko · Nov 27, 2023

mr44er said:
That's sad.

2x Micron 7400 here, running since 4 months, 2x Micron 7450 ~2 months. No problems, everything smooth but my first job was flashing last firmware and I gave them active cooling.

enterprise SSD/NVMe without cooling is bound to end in (very) early failures just like it always was with most (especially high-rpm) server HDDs.
if you need something for passive cooling, go for low-power desktop-/laptop drives, e.g. WD blue will run at very low temperatures. of course you won't get the throughput or endruance ratings from such drives, that's why those are desktop/laptop products. server products need proper cooling, period. you can't cheat physics...

Tech Junky · Nov 27, 2023

@mr44er @sko

I flashed the firmware on the second one and it didn't make a difference in the end result.

As for cooling all 3 drives were / are in the same configuration for cooling and the Kioxia is showing temps @ 40C so, cooling doesn't seem to be an issue. Though my buddy using the Micron's had to put more direct cooling into play with them and is still having higher temps. Since the drives didn't last veery long I wasn't laser focused on the drive temp on the Micron's. Considering the temp of the Kioxia though I would figure the others would have been in the same realm in the same position.

The point is 2 drive from 2 vendors = same result. I wasn't going to push my luck with a 3rd and deal with more shuffling of drives or the potential for a 3rd failure outside of a return window and have to deal with an RMA situation om top of it all. Micron's are enticing though for the price they're going for and was the initial draw for getting one. Of course they work for some and this is just my experience with them and YMMV.

jei · Nov 27, 2023

Kioxia ja Micron have about the same typical power consumption so I wouldn't expect a big difference there.

I have 7450's in a basic IcyDock tray, stock coolers changed to noctua lower RPM ones, in 27C ambient and they idle at 41~42C.

986box · Nov 27, 2023

jei said:
I have 7450's in a basic IcyDock tray, stock coolers changed to noctua lower RPM ones, in 27C ambient and they idle at 41~42C.

Is the IcyDock tray spec for SAS3 12Gbps? Which model? Athena BP-SAC1425AVL12 is cheapest found. About $80.

jei · Nov 27, 2023

986box said:
Is the IcyDock tray spec for SAS3 12Gbps? Which model? Athena BP-SAC1425AVL12 is cheapest found. About $80.

ToughArmor MB699VP-B V3. Micron 7450 is NVMe PCIe Gen4.

bwahaha · Nov 27, 2023

that site said:
*Note - The MB699VP-B V3 only supports NVMe SSD when connecting to a Tri-Mode controller. It does not support SAS/SATA SSD/HDD.

Bummer.

CyklonDX · Nov 27, 2023

I do have MB998IP-B (around 280 usd with 2x mini-sas connectors) with 8x sas3 hgst 800GB SAS SSD's with lsi 9300-16i (not the cheapest option) with intel workstation case, it keeps disks around 6'C over ambient under full load. (topping out at around 7.4GB/s r/w)

clash · Nov 29, 2023

Here are mine $0.05 for SAS PM1643a's in IcyDock MB508SP-B of this build, room temperature is about 25° C

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SAS SSD or Nmve SSD

jei

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CyklonDX

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jei

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