Ruckus Wireless as an Unifi alternative?

[ms264556]

So i was dead set on R650 but i there is a few people claiming that R730 with the R850 firmware perform much better than R650?

I wouldn't say it's much better. The R650 has a different shaped coverage area from the R730. In my case (2 storey wooden house with drywall everywhere) the R730 had a stronger signal directly below than the R650. For a 1 storey house, this extra vertical reach is not necessarily an advantage.

Also, the R650 will be supported for several more years with new software releases. The R730 is a dead product which doesn't have any further software releases expected past ZoneDirector 10.5.1, Smartzone 6.1.0 or Unleashed 200.14.

For me, I have no particular qualms about running old software forever: Ruckus security vulnerabilities are probably going to involve authenticated administrators and almost definitely going to require the attacker to already be on my network.

There are R730s for $75 on eBay, which tilts the balance for me towards "buy obsolete stuff and throw it away when it stops working". If R730s were closer to R650 prices then I wouldn't be interested in them at all.

 

[Vesalius]

RUCKUS Unleashed 200.15.6.112.52 minor version release for those Apple users still on 200.14 due to the regression in the initial 200.15.6.12.304 release.

new feature : add R350e AP support
resolved: HomePod Minis are unable to connect to the Unleashed network after upgrading to Unleashed 200.15. [ER-13309]

also impacted applewatchs, gen2 homepods which all use similar SOC. now working so far in my home.

 

[hmw]

Downgraded to 200.14.6.1.179 from 200.15.6.112.52 - everything was good except my iPhone 15 just wouldn't stay connected to the WiFi - tried WPA2 and WPA2/WPA3 mixed, tried rebooting the iphone - for whatever reason it would get a self assigned IP after it had done a screen lock and wake up cycle

Pity - 200.15 seemed quite good

UPDATE: Rolled back to 200.14.6.1.179 - now all my iPhone 15 devices are working fine

 

[mattlach]

Hmm.

Do I have to use the unleashed firmware to manage it directly from the device? or can a mere mortal home user without access to an enterprise purchasing department (or enterprise licensing budget) use a central on premises (I don't want cloud) management server?

And what form does that server take? Could I install it in a VM/Container? I am trying to make sense out of their webpage, but not understanding the Ruckus brand names for things makes it difficult. Is "Flexmaster" what I want?

I can't seem to find a "download" link on their webpage, which suggests to me it is probably a special licensed product that is not free for use once you buy the hardware

(The enterprise products always get you with the stupid licenses)

I'm thinking two AP's, (R650's?) with three SSID's on separate VLAN's. (Main LAN, Untrusted IoT & Guest)

I want to get rid of Unifi. I tried Mikrotik, but their AP's appear to be a shit show, so I am leaning toward returning them. I'm hoping Ruckus will do the trick.

Appreciate any input.

 

[kpfleming]

Hmm.

Do I have to use the unleashed firmware to manage it directly from the device? or can a mere mortal home user without access to an enterprise purchasing department (or enterprise licensing budget) use a central on premises (I don't want cloud) management server?

And what form does that server take? Could I install it in a VM/Container?

I'm thinking two AP's, (R650's?) with three SSID's on separate VLAN's. (Main LAN, Untrusted IoT & Guest)

I want to get rid of Unifi. I tried Mikrotik, but their AP's appear to be a shit show, so I am leaning toward returning them. I'm hoping Ruckus will do the trick.

Appreciate any input.

It is possible to use Zone Director one of the other 'centralized' management solutions, some of them can be found used on eBay which makes them less expensive than purchasing new.

What is your concern with using Unleashed? It's roughly equivalent to the other 'controller-less' enterprise solutions, a single management interface for a network of devices.

 

[mattlach]

What is your concern with using Unleashed? It's roughly equivalent to the other 'controller-less' enterprise solutions, a single management interface for a network of devices.

The asymmetrical decentralized nature of it kind of bothers me. That, and I imagine the management features use up memory and CPU cycles on one of the little device that might compromise its overall performance.

I also hate all things with dynamic handoffs. I feel like I lose control over them. I want to be able to set up something static and centralized without the device making any decisions on my behalf about what is managing what.

It is possible to use Zone Director one of the other 'centralized' management solutions, some of them can be found used on eBay which makes them less expensive than purchasing new.

I wouldn't be interested in buying a specialized hardware controller. I'm a little bit allergic to the "hardware appliance product" mindset many in Enterprise IT have. Whenever possible I want to run as much as possible in a VM or container on my custom built x86 server. I try to avoid hardware routers/firewalls (use pfSense or OPN Sense on custom built server instead) hardware storage appliances (instead of something like Synology, I'd go with OpenZFS on a custom server 100 times out of 100) etc. etc.

I have a virtualization host server for stuff like this, and if possible I'd like to use it, just like I did with the Linux Unifi server with my Unifi AP's. It sounds like that might not be an option though, which is a pity.

That said,m since I am done with Ubiquiti, and Mikrotik and their RouterOS seem to be a shit show beggars can't be choosers.

If I were to pickup one of these Zone directors, can I use them 100% locally? Do they require any license, or is it just plug in, and set up? (I'm generally allergic to licenses too)

 

[ms264556]

Hmm.

Do I have to use the unleashed firmware to manage it directly from the device? or can a mere mortal home user without access to an enterprise purchasing department (or enterprise licensing budget) use a central on premises (I don't want cloud) management server?

And what form does that server take? Could I install it in a VM/Container?

I'm thinking two AP's, (R650's?) with three SSID's on separate VLAN's. (Main LAN, Untrusted IoT & Guest)

I want to get rid of Unifi. I tried Mikrotik, but their AP's appear to be a shit show, so I am leaning toward returning them. I'm hoping Ruckus will do the trick.

Appreciate any input.

I think Unleashed is better than you think - Ruckus have included the ZoneDirector controller software on every AP & then implemented a distributed database with an election mechanism to pick the master which performs controller functions.

Every Ruckus AP you can buy has plenty of CPU power to run the controller functionality for even a very busy home network.

 

[kpfleming]

I wouldn't be interested in buying a specialized hardware controller.

The asymmetrical decentralized nature of it kind of bothers me. That, and I imagine the management features use up memory and CPU cycles on one of the little device that might compromise its overall performance.

I have a virtualization host server for stuff like this, and if possible I'd like to use it, just like I did with the Linux Unifi server with my Unifi AP's. It sounds like that might not be an option though, which is a pity.

I have only ever used Unleashed (as have friends I've convinced to switched to Ruckus APs, and many people on this thread), and the AP performance has never been visibly affected by running in Unleashed 'master' mode. With that said, if you are concerned about that there are at least two options to avoid mixing 'control' and 'data' planes: purchase a low-cost AP to be the Unleashed 'master' (allowing one of the others to be a backup if that one fails, or during firmware upgrades), and turn off its radios; alternatively, purchase one of the newer units which can be run in 'dedicated master' mode which does pretty much the same thing but is more expensive

R510s can run the current version of Unleashed and are available for under $50, that would be a fine radios-off master device if you wanted to go that route. It's also a good AP, I have one in my garage (and it's the Unleashed master for my network).

 

[mattlach]

I have only ever used Unleashed (as have friends I've convinced to switched to Ruckus APs, and many people on this thread), and the AP performance has never been visibly affected by running in Unleashed 'master' mode. With that said, if you are concerned about that there are at least two options to avoid mixing 'control' and 'data' planes: purchase a low-cost AP to be the Unleashed 'master' (allowing one of the others to be a backup if that one fails, or during firmware upgrades), and turn off its radios; alternatively, purchase one of the newer units which can be run in 'dedicated master' mode which does pretty much the same thing but is more expensive

R510s can run the current version of Unleashed and are available for under $50, that would be a fine radios-off master device if you wanted to go that route. It's also a good AP, I have one in my garage (and it's the Unleashed master for my network).

Appreciate the advice.

I edited and rephrased my answer a few times, adding more info and questions I didn't think of the first time around. hoping I'd ninja edit it before getting a response, but you were faster

If I were to go the zone director route (like with a ZD1100 or ZD1200) does anyone know if they require any kind of license? Or is it just a matter of plugging them in, setting them up and using them?

 

[ms264556]

The asymmetrical decentralized nature of it kind of bothers me. That, and I imagine the management features use up memory and CPU cycles on one of the little device that might compromise its overall performance.

I also hate all things with dynamic handoffs. I feel like I lose control over them. I want to be able to set up something static and centralized without the device making any decisions on my behalf about what is managing what.

The management features use up next to no CPU in a home network. And you can assign a preferred master so that controller is fixed, and a management IP so even if your preferred master goes offline you still have the same management IP. For the management web you can hit any of the AP IPs and they'll redirect you to the current master.

 

[ms264556]

Appreciate the advice.

I edited and rephrased my answer a few times, adding more info and questions I didn't think of the first time around. hoping I'd ninja edit it before getting a response, but you were faster

If I were to go the zone director route (like with a ZD1100 or ZD1200) does anyone know if they require any kind of license? Or is it just a matter of plugging them in, setting them up and using them?

The ZD1200 has minimum 5 AP licenses. And you can contact me privately if you buy one and need to enable upgrade entitlement. ZD1100 doesn't support modern APs, so don't buy one.

But as someone who runs ZoneDirector, Unleashed & SmartZone... I wouldn't bother buying a ZD because the R650 is PLENTY powerful enough to run an Unleashed controller at the same time as doing normal radio duties.

 

[Gerhen]

Decided to try the latest 200.15 and everything is working.

For reference, we mainly have Apple devices and have 3 R710 APs set up around the home per BW’s guide.

 

[fohdeesha]

Appreciate the advice.

I edited and rephrased my answer a few times, adding more info and questions I didn't think of the first time around. hoping I'd ninja edit it before getting a response, but you were faster

If I were to go the zone director route (like with a ZD1100 or ZD1200) does anyone know if they require any kind of license? Or is it just a matter of plugging them in, setting them up and using them?

these are enterprise/commercial APs designed to run hundreds and hundreds of clients each - unleashed will be absolutely bored running on an AP used in a home

 

[mattlach]

It is possible to use Zone Director one of the other 'centralized' management solutions, some of them can be found used on eBay which makes them less expensive than purchasing new.

What is your concern with using Unleashed? It's roughly equivalent to the other 'controller-less' enterprise solutions, a single management interface for a network of devices.

I have only ever used Unleashed (as have friends I've convinced to switched to Ruckus APs, and many people on this thread), and the AP performance has never been visibly affected by running in Unleashed 'master' mode. With that said, if you are concerned about that there are at least two options to avoid mixing 'control' and 'data' planes: purchase a low-cost AP to be the Unleashed 'master' (allowing one of the others to be a backup if that one fails, or during firmware upgrades), and turn off its radios; alternatively, purchase one of the newer units which can be run in 'dedicated master' mode which does pretty much the same thing but is more expensive

R510s can run the current version of Unleashed and are available for under $50, that would be a fine radios-off master device if you wanted to go that route. It's also a good AP, I have one in my garage (and it's the Unleashed master for my network).

The management features use up next to no CPU in a home network. And you can assign a preferred master so that controller is fixed, and a management IP so even if your preferred master goes offline you still have the same management IP. For the management web you can hit any of the AP IPs and they'll redirect you to the current master.

The ZD1200 has minimum 5 AP licenses. And you can contact me privately if you buy one and need to enable upgrade entitlement. ZD1100 doesn't support modern APs, so don't buy one.

But as someone who runs ZoneDirector, Unleashed & SmartZone... I wouldn't bother buying a ZD because the R650 is PLENTY powerful enough to run an Unleashed controller at the same time as doing normal radio duties.

Appreciate all of your input.

I think I might be grabbing a couple of R650's.

Quick question. Since I have very little experience with anything newer than 802.11ac...

I've noticed that the Ruckus R650 has a 2.5Gbit PoE port.

Also, I will need to purchase PoE injectors that are compatible with this. Most of the PoE injectors I have used in the past have been of the dumb passive variety, usually 24v. I have read through the datasheets but cannot find the voltage used, just that it uses 802.3af and 802.3at

Questions:

1.) Should I expect the R650 to be blocked by an upstream gigabit wired connection? In other words, do I really want to make sure I feed the R650 2.5gbit to get the most performance out of it?

2.) Is there any way to feed this passive PoE power and have it work, or do I need a fancier PoE injector?

3.) Does anyone know of a compatible 802.3af or 802.3at 2.5Gbit PoE injector that will take a 24vdc input and pull it up to the voltage it needs? One of the locations these are going already has a custom DC->DC UPS, so anyhting that requires line power won't work.

Appreciate any input on this.

 

[ms264556]

Appreciate all of your input.

I think I might be grabbing a couple of R650's.

Quick question. Since I have very little experience with anything newer than 802.11ac...

I've noticed that the Ruckus R650 has a 2.5Gbit PoE port.

Also, I will need to purchase PoE injectors that are compatible with this. Most of the PoE injectors I have used in the past have been of the dumb passive variety, usually 24v. I have read through the datasheets but cannot find the voltage used, just that it uses 802.3af and 802.3at

Questions:

1.) Should I expect the R650 to be blocked by an upstream gigabit wired connection? In other words, do I really want to make sure I feed the R650 2.5gbit to get the most performance out of it?

2.) Is there any way to feed this passive PoE power and have it work, or do I need a fancier PoE injector?

3.) Does anyone know of a compatible 802.3af or 802.3at 2.5Gbit PoE injector that will take a 24vdc input and pull it up to the voltage it needs? One of the locations these are going already has a custom DC->DC UPS, so anyhting that requires line power won't work.

Appreciate any input on this.

1) The R650's maximum throughput is quite a bit higher than 1Gbps, but there are very few current client devices which will connect at >1200Mbps & it's unusual to have several devices pushing 1Gb of traffic simultaneously at home, so gigabit is unlikely to cramp your style much.

2) If the passive injector is 802.3at or 802.3af compatible, but is just missing the handshake, then you might be ok if it can provide 21.59W (or at least close to this). If the injector is just firing 12V/24V down the wire then the AP either won't work or could be damaged.

3) If you jump onto AliExpress you'll find 802.3at injectors which can be powered off 24V DC, e.g.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EzmSU39
Your R650's spec is 21.59W though, so I'd want the 24V DC supply to be at least 1A.

Incidentally, PoE switches have come down in price a bunch. Have a look at the 2.5Gb switch guide - it might be good to upgrade this at the same time. I pulled out my 1Gb managed switch and collection of DC UPSs and put in a 4x2.5Gb+2x10Gb PoE managed switch on an ordinary online UPS for $200 total cost.

 

[mattlach]

1) The R650's maximum throughput is quite a bit higher than 1Gbps, but there are very few current client devices which will connect at >1200Mbps & it's unusual to have several devices pushing 1Gb of traffic simultaneously at home, so gigabit is unlikely to cramp your style much.

2) If the passive injector is 802.3at or 802.3af compatible, but is just missing the handshake, then you might be ok if it can provide 21.59W (or at least close to this). If the injector is just firing 12V/24V down the wire then the AP either won't work or could be damaged.

3) If you jump onto AliExpress you'll find 802.3at injectors which can be powered off 24V DC, e.g.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EzmSU39
Your R650's spec is 21.59W though, so I'd want the 24V DC supply to be at least 1A.

Yep, I understand how DC works. I built a custom DC->DC UPS using one of those Mini-BOX DC-DC Open UPS boards, an ammmo box, and a 12v 10AH battery, and the uptime is insane compared to commercially available UPS:es! (~11.5 hours from a single 12v 10AH battery)

It should be able to supply about 9amps if push comes to shove (though I will need to upgrade the power brick to support that). 1 amp should be no problem. Right now I can handle up to 6 amps, and the other device pulling power on it maxes out at 0.8a at 24v, so I have plenty of leeway.

I did a little writeup on this UPS build here if curious.

Incidentally, PoE switches have come down in price a bunch. Have a look at the 2.5Gb switch guide - it might be good to upgrade this at the same time. I pulled out my 1Gb managed switch and collection of DC UPSs and put in a 4x2.5Gb+2x10Gb PoE managed switch on an ordinary online UPS for $200 total cost.

Wow. Those switches are quite amazing at that price. I have some pretty serious trust issues about letting anything designed in China and sold on AliExpress anywhere near my network though.

Right now each of the two locations where the AP's need to go have a Mikrotik CSS326-14G-2S+RM. One of the SFP+ ports on each is a 10gig fiber uplink. I figured if I need 2.5gig to the R650's, I could use one of the 10/5/2.5 copper SFP+ adapters I have kicking around, but I'd need to find a compatible DC->DC PoE injector for that.

In my googling I can find:
- 802.11af and 802.11at injectors listed as 2.5Gbit, but with direct AC inputs.
- 802.11af and 802.11at injectors listed as Gigabit, but with the DC inputs I am looking for.

I just cant seem to find both DC input AND 2.5gbit...

Also, from what I am reading, injectors reading "gigabit" might just work with multibit, as they arent exactly active in the data path. As long as the signal is sufficient, older gigabit injectors might just work at 2.5gbit... It just won't be "supported". Such is the deal - I understand - wuthg the Ubiquti PoE+ injector. Officially Gigabit, but works at 2.5gig. At least according to this thread on Reddit.

I could always start with gigabit, maybe it will connect at 2.5, maybe not. if not I can keep looking and decide if 2.5gb is worth it later. To your point there isn't going to be much (or anything in my house) that is going to tax them above the gigabit level.

Most they are going to see is a couple of old laptops with Intel 7260-AC WLAN cards, one newer laptop with some sort of ax capability, a couple of recent Pixel phones with ax, one recent iPhone with ax (I think) an older iPad (probably ac) and a couple of b/g/n "smart" thermostats (which will be isolated on their own VLAN)

I have 10gig SFP+ fiber throughout the house (and a couple of limited 40gig QSFP+ runs) but nothing wireless is likely to do a lot of internal traffic. Most of the devices on wireless are likely going to be predominantly accessing the WAN, and that is limited to gigabit anyway...

So your point is taken. I may not need anyhting beyond gigabit on the Ruckus devices.

I'm a little bit allergic to upstream blocking configurations though. (at least except for the wan interface )

 

[ms264556]

Yep, I understand how DC works.

Sorry. Too much time spent replying to Reddit questions.

I had mini DC UPSs on everything because I get frequent 5 or 10 minute power cuts, so a small online UPS has been a good replacement.

Regarding the 1Gb vs multigig injectors, I had good luck running 2.5Gb through a variety of 1Gb injectors to an R650. Definitely not guaranteed though: my current R730 is very fussy and trains down to 1Gb after a few minutes.

Nothing important on my network is running unencrypted traffic anymore, so I'll live with the theoretical chance that someone in China is using my $30 switch to spy on me. I'm still using a bunch of Google services and social media apps, so the privacy ship has well and truly sailed already.

 

[mattlach]

3.) Does anyone know of a compatible 802.3af or 802.3at 2.5Gbit PoE injector that will take a 24vdc input and pull it up to the voltage it needs? One of the locations these are going already has a custom DC->DC UPS, so anything that requires line power won't work.

1) The R650's maximum throughput is quite a bit higher than 1Gbps, but there are very few current client devices which will connect at >1200Mbps & it's unusual to have several devices pushing 1Gb of traffic simultaneously at home, so gigabit is unlikely to cramp your style much.

In my googling I can find:
- 802.11af and 802.11at injectors listed as 2.5Gbit, but with direct AC inputs.
- 802.11af and 802.11at injectors listed as Gigabit, but with the DC inputs I am looking for.

I just cant seem to find both DC input AND 2.5gbit...

Also, from what I am reading, injectors reading "gigabit" might just work with multibit, as they arent exactly active in the data path. As long as the signal is sufficient, older gigabit injectors might just work at 2.5gbit... It just won't be "supported". Such is the deal - I understand - wuthg the Ubiquti PoE+ injector. Officially Gigabit, but works at 2.5gig. At least according to this thread on Reddit.

I could always start with gigabit, maybe it will connect at 2.5, maybe not. if not I can keep looking and decide if 2.5gb is worth it later. To your point there isn't going to be much (or anything in my house) that is going to tax them above the gigabit level.

Regarding the 1Gb vs multigig injectors, I had good luck running 2.5Gb through a variety of 1Gb injectors to an R650. Definitely not guaranteed though: my current R730 is very fussy and trains down to 1Gb after a few minutes.

After manually going through every single PoE injector on Amazon and Newegg I landed on these intended for industrial applications.

They are a little pricy, but there is a $20 coupon, and that price is well worth it if they work for my application (DC 24v input -> 802.3at PoE output.)

I will report back if the Ruckus R650's can actually negotiate 2.5Gbig through them despite them being validated at Gigabit, in case anyone else needs to know.

 

[hmw]

nm - didn't read your post properly - good find on that PoE adapter

 

[hmw]

Re: 200.15.6.12.304 Apple devices connectivity issues

Hi Everyone, We were able to reproduce the Roaming issue and the we have fixed it, we have a QA build available which is tested and production capable. will it be fine if you can you help us to load the image and check if is working for you? This will help us to get the confirmation from the...

community.ruckuswireless.com

200.15 - problems with iOS devices & roaming/deep sleep/general connectivity. I don’t know why it doesn’t affect everyone- I have three R750s and a H550 and I’m affected. There’s other folks affected as well but Ruckus QA is having difficulty reproducing the wake from deep sleep issue. They managed to reproduce the roaming issue but the version they say fixes it … doesn’t