retrofit Sans Digital TR4M boxes for SAS?

[dianedebuda]

Not sure where to post this, so sorry if wrong.

Have 6 active TR4M with WD 2TB greens that are giving me a lot of trouble. For details, I've posted a longer version over at overclockers.net: Alternatives for problem San Digital TR4M + WD 2TB green

After reading External JBOD Chassis articles, I wonder if this retrofit should theoretically work:

-computer is AMD A10-6800K based Asus A88X-Pro with Win7/Win10
-add LSI SAS 9650SE-24M8 or some other LSI adapter that can support 24 sata drives
For each TR4M box:
-8088 to sata adapter (I think this is a forward splitter) Oodelay SFF 8088 Minisas Host to x4 SAS SATA 7pin Device SAS Adapter St 164RM | eBay
-sata data & power cables for drives in box
-3ft SFF-8087 (8088?) cables

If there's a better solution, I'm all ears.

Edit: I'm completely new to SAS...

 

[audio catalyst]

better off replacing those greens, or making sure no head parking takes place

 

[smithse79]

I just replaced a TR4M with 3 WD20EARS drives that I'd been running for ~4 years. I was able to run WDIDLE on those drives and stop them from going to sleep, but before them I was having the issues in the linked post. Recently, the PSU in my TR4M failed and as a last resort until I could replace the unit, I used an old ATX PSU that I jump-started to power the drives. This worked fine for a couple of weeks. When my PSU died, I found out that this is the weak point of that unit, the PSU. Apparently it is a VERY common failure and an expensive part to replace.

Theoretically what you are talking about should work, but you're going to have cables everywhere for little gain. It'd be better IMHO to get a single larger dedicated JBOD that is already SAS.

 

[dianedebuda]

Looked at the WDIDLE, but my drives are not having that problem directly. They're not spinning down all that fast. It just takes a long time for some of them to spin up when I'm copying large files to each of the drives and the "next" drive has been inactive >5 min.

As for cables, doesn't look like much change to me from what I have now.

Suggestions on LSI adapter? Could I use 2 LSI smaller (port-wise) adapters at the same time? Some vendors' cards won't allow duplicates. Thinking about the fact that there's 3 cables from the 24 port puppy and I want to go to 6 boxes.

Replacing 24 drives in the active TR4M plus another 30 in other TR4Ms is not an cheap option. If they were giving me problems outside the TR4Ms, it'd be one thing, but they're not... at least yet.

Thanks for replies.

 

[cesmith9999]

Rather than try to fix those enclosures, I would do one of 2 things

buy 2 cheap 3u rackables enclosures (~$150-200 shipped each) and buy a LSI SAS card to drive them.

Buy a 4U server chassis with 24 drives in the face and transplant your MB into it. you will get a lot more reliability.

Chris

 

[dianedebuda]

Interesting alternatives, but don't think these 2 options will work for me. Part of the reason is the physical size, but the primary problem is that my drives are truly used 1 at a time but powered up in groups of 4 so I don't have to keep getting up to flip switches. I rarely do 8 at a time and I really do not want all drives up at the same time. This is part of an editing setup, not a server. Weird, I know.

One of the few advantages of considering retrofit of the TR4Ms is the individual power switches for a 4-group. Of course, if the p/s actually are wonky, I would never consider getting replacements from Sans Digital - even though a couple of these boxes are still under warranty. I guess I could set up a separate atx p/s and deal with adding switches per unit. Probably more trouble than it's worth. Sad, but most of these boxes worked so well until a year or so ago.

I guess I really do need to test one of these critters using the native port multiplier for the data but using an external p/s for the drives. Lately I've just been using the TR4Ms as unpowered storage racks, grabbing the drives & sticking them in docks.

The other option I'm testing is using a power+usb 3.0 to 21 pin sata adapter, but that means I have to replug each drive for each use (yuck) and I need a 21 pin sata extension to prevent wearing out drive's connector. If this ends up being is my route, I'd buy 3 more adapters for my 4-group. I just don't like the prospect of the constant replugging.

Anyhow, I do appreciate the thoughts. I'm definitely not set on retrofit of the TR4Ms - it's just an option I'm considering. Keeping an open mind.

 

[cesmith9999]

you are basically trying to convert them to TR4X.

what application are you running? rotating backup?

maybe what you really need is to get 24 * USB 3.0 external enclosures and smart powerstrip where you can turn the ports on and off as needed.

Chris

 

[dianedebuda]

As far as functionality, yes, I guess I am trying for a TR4X. But my Sans Digital experiences plus what I've read over the years prevents me from going for "real" there. I'd looked at other boxes last year when I started having problems, but there just really wasn't anything else that I thought was any better in the SATA arena. Until yesterday, never knew a single thing about SAS, so this is all new territory for me.

The application using these drives is simple video editing: trim & patch defects. These "active" drives are dups of the orig captures plus post-edit, "library" videos. The orig captures are on a separate rotating set of 2TB drives. The "library" videos are copied as they are created to a temp drive. The content of that temp drive is copied periodically to the server (6TB drives) and later to the archives (yet another set of 2TB drives in TR4M, but archives are only written to every couple of months, so replug is not that big of an issue with those). Strictly an in-house hobby. More than you wanted to know, yes?

The TR4Ms are on power strips with per outlet switches now, so it was real easy. I've got 1 TR4M with usb 3.0, but it's a problem child too. The TR4M are good fits "space-wise" for me; 24 individual external enclosures - not so much. I'd be better off replacing with 6 TB drives in the usb 3.0. That's probably what's going to happen long-term. In the meantime, reading, thinking, reading, thinking.

I would really like to know if it's possible to run 2 LSI adapters in the same computer. The sample 24 port one that I looked at has 3 external ports, so I'm assuming that each port is for 8 drives. If that's so, is it even possible to split for 4+4? That's why I'm wondering about running 2 cards with 12/16 ports each. If someone knows a site for intro or "SAS for dummies"... I truly may be chasing the wild goose here, but it is interesting.

Edit: Oh, and the other problem with using 24 usb 3.0 thingys is that most of them don't like being on a hub - at least that's what I've found so far. So that'd mean I couldn't avoid the replugs.
Edit2: Well, let me backup here. Found that hub limitation to be true for native, usb-powered small drives like WD Elements. May not be true here. Gotta check this out.

 

[Jeggs101]

I'd ditch the box. You are likely to spend so much time troubleshooting that this will not be worth it.

 

[dianedebuda]

For 1 or 2 boxes, you're absolutely correct. But right now, I've already spent so much time over the last 18 mos, that this side trip is a pittance.

Rigging up an ATX supply now. Inquiring minds have GOT to know.