Recommendations for Retrofitted U2 hotswap bays

[UnknownPommes]

So whats your thought on U2 hotswap bays that can fit in 5.25" slots?
The only ones i found in the western markets where the ones from icy dock for over 400€ for 4x 2.5" U2 which is crazy expensive.

After i bit of looking around those on aliexpress
88.24US $ |Zhenloong 4 Bay U.2 Nvme Ssd Hot Swap Storage 3.5 &

Zhenloong 4 Bay U.2 Ssd Hot Swap Storage 3.5"/2.5" Hard Disk Drive Cage Sas Sata3 Module 5.25 Inch Optical Drive Position Con - Buy Hard Disk Drive Cage,4 Bay Hot Swap Module,U.2 Ssd Hot Swap Module Product on Alibaba.com

Zhenloong 4 Bay U.2 Ssd Hot Swap Storage 3.5"/2.5" Hard Disk Drive Cage Sas Sata3 Module 5.25 Inch Optical Drive Position Con - Buy Hard Disk Drive Cage,4 Bay Hot Swap Module,U.2 Ssd Hot Swap Module Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

With around 80€ + shipping they seem to be quite affordable for u2 hotswap bays, the only downside they are 3.5" instead of 2.5" and therefore take up 3 entire 5.25" slots which is obviously a waste of space when they could easily fit into 1 like the ones from icy docks.
Are there actually u2 drives that are 3.5"? or are they just reusing existing moldings from their sata / sas bays? (identical unit available for SAS)
On the other hand i can also get a sas one for the other side of my server that it looks nicely symmetrical.

Other option would be to get a salvaged 8x 2.5" U2 bay from HP G10 Servers, they seem to fit exactly in 2x 5.25" bays, are around 160€ only, would be actually double the bays for future upgrades and they are using standard SFF-8654-8i connectors for data. The only problem is the proprietary 6pin connector for power, but i could just make an adapter to molex or sth.
Also i am kinda trusting the manufacturing of hp more than some random chinese shop (dont want my stuff to burn up like some other people had with cheap injection molded sata connectors)... On the other hand it seems that the same company is also contracted to supply parts to Intertech...

Or would you do sth totally different? (i want to keep it front accessible so no direct pcie to u2 adapters)
Let me know your thoughts

 

[newabc]

For the tradition of alibaba.com, usually the importer/distributor is responsible to product warranty.
But aliexpress.com is a retailer platform like ebay.
Probably that's why the shipping fee of its aliexpress store is so high.

 

[hmw]

Other option would be to get a salvaged 8x 2.5" U2 bay from HP G10 Servers, they seem to fit exactly in 2x 5.25" bays, are around 160€ only, would be actually double the bays for future upgrades and they are using standard SFF-8654-8i connectors for data

That is interesting - do you have part numbers for these?

 

[gb00s]

I know this is not a perfect 'hotswap' solution, but I've reused a Supermicro CSE-M28SAB, took off the backplane and just connected 8x U.2 NVMe's with SFF-8639 coming from 2x PCIe adapter cards. These take 2x 5.25 slots in use. It's not ideal solution, but cheap and it works. I bought mine at ~50EUR on eBay at the time. They are rare and also cost used > 100US$ now. Maybe check if you can find them cheaper.

 

[UnknownPommes]

That is interesting - do you have part numbers for these?

i think it is 867116-001 872199-001 or 826572-001 872971-00, they are listed with different part numbers on different sites
here is a link, actually got 20€ cheaper since i posted

Serverschmiede.com GmbH

Vertrieb & Konzeption von refurbished Enterprise Server & Storagelösungen im Business Umfeld - maßgeschneiderte, wiederaufgearbeitete Server & mehr

www.serverschmiede.com

 

[UnknownPommes]

I know this is not a perfect 'hotswap' solution, but I've reused a Supermicro CSE-M28SAB, took off the backplane and just connected 8x U.2 NVMe's with SFF-8639 coming from 2x PCIe adapter cards. These take 2x 5.25 slots in use. It's not ideal solution, but cheap and it works. I bought mine at ~50EUR on eBay at the time. They are rare and also cost used > 100US$ now. Maybe check if you can find them cheaper.

jup thanks,
the main reason i am actually trying to go with backplanes instead of cable is due to the injection molded connectors like on

bc as far as i was able to find out they are susceptible to the same burning as molex to sata cables, bc they use the same cheap injection molded sata / sata style power connectors (and acutally twice per cable)

(for anyone never heard of it, looks like this)

 

[hmw]

i think it is 867116-001 872199-001 or 826572-001 872971-00, they are listed with different part numbers on different sites
here is a link, actually got 20€ cheaper since i posted

Serverschmiede.com GmbH

Vertrieb & Konzeption von refurbished Enterprise Server & Storagelösungen im Business Umfeld - maßgeschneiderte, wiederaufgearbeitete Server & mehr

www.serverschmiede.com

Is the 826689-B21 the same ? Or is it different somehow?

 

[UnknownPommes]

Is the 826689-B21 the same ? Or is it different somehow?

i dont know, i am still thinking about buying and dont have any yet

 

[hmw]

i dont know, i am still thinking about buying and dont have any yet

The main problem is the power connector pinout - I am trying to search and see anyone who got these things working. Also the NVMe power connector has to do 200W (each NVMe drive can take up to 25W)

But if it does - this is great because I have a Rosewill 4U server and can easily fit one of these NVMe cages. And HP must have a similar 8 SFF SAS/SATA cage as well - great way to add 8x SAS/SATA and 8x NVMe to the case.

EDIT: found it - appears to be 826690-B21 - 8 x SAS/SATA or 6 x SAS/SATA + 2 x NVMe. There's also a 826691-B21 which is 8 x SAS/SATA

 

[UnknownPommes]

apparently others already had that idea and got it working, just found this.

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/adapt-a-hp-dl380-gen10-nvme-backplane-to-a-standard-atx-power-supply.38552/

 

[hmw]

apparently others already had that idea and got it working, just found this.

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/adapt-a-hp-dl380-gen10-nvme-backplane-to-a-standard-atx-power-supply.38552/

I ordered a 826689-B21. Will post pics when it gets here, hopefully it comes with the power cable. The power cable connecters appear to be 1x5 MicroFit to 2x3 MicroFit. Given that the MicroFit connectors have a current rating of 5A per contact, with two 12V leads, we're still talking 12x5 + 12x5 = 120 watts. I don't see how HP can allow 8 x 25W drives in this

 

[hmw]

Got my drive cage (It was actually quite cheap at $115). Here's the little connector pinout for the 6 pin connector that supplies power to the cage



and the corresponding 5 pin connector that connects to some terminal on a DL380 Gen10 chassis




according to https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...a-standard-atx-power-supply.38552/post-375482 the pinout for the 5 PIN is

12V - GND - 3.3V - GND - 12V

I have no idea if this is accurate but the person did mention that they got it working. The 6-pin and 5-pin connectors are MicroFit 3.0. They will NOT fit the usual PSU connectors or plugs since these are Molex MiniFit etc. I've ordered some cable + MicroFit connectors to make my own plugs that can plug directly into a PSU side PCIe connector

At least for the Rosewill L4000 case, the drive cage is less narrow than a 5.25" bay but it is 2mm wider than the 4x3.5 bay. Will have to see how to shoehorn this thing into the case. Or then will need to figure out a 2U chassis that can fit two of these cages side by side.

 

[nexox]

bc as far as i was able to find out they are susceptible to the same burning as molex to sata cables, bc they use the same cheap injection molded sata / sata style power connectors (and acutally twice per cable)

I was worried about this myself, so I cut into an Amphenol branded connector that I accidentally snapped and found that they're made pretty well.

They're crimped and/or soldered, then it looks like the outside boot is filled with the clear compound and slid over, then the clear part cures to hold it all together.

They're still kinda fragile and rather difficult to organize in a dense install, but I don't think they're going to short out.

 

[UnknownPommes]

They're still kinda fragile and rather difficult to organize in a dense install, but I don't think they're going to short out.

Thanks for the image, yeah i also disassembled one but of the ones that are used for normal sas / sata and it looked ok,
anyway i ended up going with a direct pcb based solution due to cost and to avoid signal integrity problems and also to safe space in the front.
Got one from 10Gtek for 75€ incl shipping https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CHRLZSTJ/ looks decent quality and only had good experience with 10gtek stuff, only negative i couldnt find the 4x u2 bay edition anywhere in the eu so had to order from amazon us which is going to take two weeks....

 

[hmw]

Got both the 826689-B21 NVMe cage and the 826691-B21 SAS/SATA cage





They both use the same exact type of power cable. Will wire these up over the holidays with custom Molex MiniFit/MicroFit connectors and test

 

[hmw]

BTW - for the HP drive cages - the HP PSU backplane connector is a 5-pin MicroFit 3.0 1x5 connector part 0436450500

The connector that goes to the drive cage is a 6-pin MicroFit 3.0 2x3 connector part 0430250600

Molex rates these for 8.5A per connection and HP is using 16AWG wires for the connections - all the MicroFit assemblies I have seen so far are 18AWG but you do get 16AWG wire in a smaller outer diameter. With this power cable design, I have no doubt the HP drive cage can do 24W per drive - or 12V @ 17A through that cable

 

[hmw]

Ordered both a 826691-B21 and a 826689-B21 cage - both were $100ea so quite a good deal. They don't come with caddies because the caddies are 'smart' and have chips. It seems the caddies are not sold separately but always as part of a HP branded SSD or disk.

I've managed to create a custom MicroFit to Seasonic PSU cable and test the 826691-B21 SAS/SATA bay (thanks to @chrisx for the power supply pinout) I've connected the cable to GND and +12V, even though on one of the TrueNas forums folks mentioned that there's 3.3V power as well and that one of the ICs (shown below) takes 3.3V



That IC appears to be a IR3895 PMIC which is a 16A DC-DC power regulator, probably for supplying the drives with 12V - I don't really see why the 3.3V line would connect to that PMIC since its output range is 5V - 12V

Building the custom cable was easy because I chose to get pre-crimped 18AWG/16AWG Molex leads from Digikey for both the MicroFit and the MiniFit Jr sockets. I chose to build a Seasonic specific cable that could plug into the EPS 12V/PCIe modular inputs for Seasonic because I can use more than a single 12V pin - if you want the cable to supply 200W, you would need at least 2 pins at 12V/8.5A

The Seasonic modular PSU pinout is simple



Note the CPU/GPU PSU side - it's a 8 pin PCIe plug, NOT a Molex MiniFit Jr but actually something called JMT 8pin PCIe female connector



It does use the same pins/terminals as a Molex MiniFit Jr but the keying is different and won't fit. (Digikey doesn't stock this but any PCIe 8pin extension will use the same plug, and they're readily available on Amazon). Obviously if you will create a custom cable to attach to your specific PSU, the pinout and connector will be different. This won't work for any Corsair PSU for example. Also keep in mind that if you connected to the Molex or SATA modular outputs in a Seasonic PSU, you have just a single 12V pin - at the 8.5A limit you won't be able to use all 8 drive bays at 25W each

The part numbers for pre-crimped leads are

214760 for MicroFit leads

215340 for MiniFit Jr leads

For the actual plugs, refer to the post above.

Molex does not do MicroFit to MiniFit ends so I used splice connectors that crimp - these are insanely strong and tough. Here's the 16AWG/18AWG pre-crimped leads - with the splice connector crimped with 16AWG wire for comparison (I tried to pull it apart but couldn't)



Here's the spliced 16 to 18AWG leads before applying heatshrink tubing and sleeving



And here's the completed cable



Tested it out with the SAS/SATA drive cage connected to both ports of an LSI 2308 card - the cable was able to power the bay and drives. Ran tests with both a SAS SSD and a SATA SSD and they worked fine. One thing to note is that you need to use BOTH the cage's ports if you want to use all 8 bays. This is different from a Supermicro backplane that just needs one SAS port connected for the entire backplane

Will test the NVMe cage next since I unfortunately need to order SlimSAS 8i to SlimSAS 8i cables and figure out how to test this.

Something that's a bit of a show stopper is that you don't have ANY LEDs or lights or any indication that the drives are working. When the host PC boots up, the cage lights up I.e. the caddies have fancy LEDs that light up - but after that the caddies never turn on at all.

Anyone have any ideas on how to get the caddy lights working or even if there's LED indicators on the cage itself?

 

[josh]

Isn't the limiting factor for U2 density the heat? The chassis cages don't worry about that due to the airplane fans driving air through but pretty sure if you're planning to pack 5.25" slots with it you'll have to solve the big cooling problem at the same time.

 

[hmw]

Isn't the limiting factor for U2 density the heat? The chassis cages don't worry about that due to the airplane fans driving air through but pretty sure if you're planning to pack 5.25" slots with it you'll have to solve the big cooling problem at the same time.

The Rosewill has a fan wall with 3 x 120mm fans behind the front bays

 

[hmw]

I have connected the 826689-B21 NVMe drive cage to both a c-Payne NVMe redriver and a Broadcom P411W-32P NVMe switch - neither option worked (and NVMe drives directly connected to the retimer or the Brocade switch worked just fine) so I must conclude that either HPE has some proprietary stuff going on with the NVMe cage or then the NVMe cage requires more than the 12v + GND power pins

If anyone has knowledge of the HPE NVMe subsystem especially the B826689-B21 drive cage - or even if you have access to an HPE server and can measure the voltages on these things - that would be greatly appreciated !