Questions re: Norco RPC-2212

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cpotter638

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Dec 6, 2011
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Building my 1st NAS. Planned equipment & software:

  • FreeNAS 0.8 with ZFS
  • Supermicro X9SCM-F
  • Intel Xeon E3-1230
  • 8 Gb ECC Ram (research incomplete)
  • 6x Seagate Barracute Green 2.0Tb hard drives

Case:
Was planning on the Norco 2212. Reasons:
  • Cost
  • Hot swap x12. Initial build = 6 hard drives. Want ability to expand to 12 hard drives.
  • Sata3 (6.0) support. Not planning on needing this currently, but instead for future.

Other options for case:
  • 4U Norco case
  • Lian Li PC-A70F
  • Fractal Design XL

Quesions re: Norco 2212:
  • Is mounting with "new" RL-26 rails a problem? Apparently this has been an issue in the past (http://forums.servethehome.com/showthread.php?276-Racking-a-Norco-4220/page3) Tun, can you provide an update after you receive the 2212? I have 2x Raxxess KAR-40-28 (http://www.wayfair.com/Raxxess-KAR-enclosed-Rack-KAR-RX1010.html). Don't have accurate dimensions of my rack, but will measure when I get back home.
  • Racks and potentially 2212 will be located in unfinished part of basement. This is adjacent to our home theater (which has Batt insulation for sound). I realize the 2212 will be loud, but I don't think this will be an issue given location (and can swap out for quieter fans if need be). Anyone own the 2212 and can comment on noise level?
  • Fractal design & Lian Li cases have dust filters. This is lacking with the 2212. Main concern with case is protecting hard drives. 2nd concern is ease of drive replacement. Will lack of dust filters on 2212 be detrimental to hard drives?
  • On another forum, I read about possible problems given 2U size of case. Apparently "full height" add-on boards will not fit in a 2U case. I don't know what card needs I will have in the future. Supermicro has 6x onboard SATA, so this will support my current 6 hard drives. If I upgrade to 12 total hard drives, I will need more SATA ports. I assume this can be addressed with a card that will fit in a 2U case? Something like the LSI SAS 9211? Will this fit in a 2U case?

Thanks in advance for all the help.
 

Tun

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Nov 20, 2011
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Hi cpotter638,

I'll return with this info as soon as I get the 4postrack25 and the 2212, your rack should be ok as long as it follows the eia-rs-310c/d standard.

Noise shouldn't be a problem, the 2U size psu has large enough fans to not generate high pitch noise and the chassis fans you can replace if needed.
I can comment on the real noise level of the psu fans and chassis fans when I get it.
For the cpu you can take a look at these two alternatives? (I couldn't find the first one here in Norway so I went with the second one, on an Intel Core i7 2600).
http://akasa.co.uk/update.php?tpl=p...lers&type_sub=Low Profile&model=AK-CC7118HP01
http://akasa.co.uk/update.php?tpl=p...lers&type_sub=Low Profile&model=AK-CCE-7106HP

Hard drives are closed so I wouldn't be too concerned with dust as long as you have side/top/bottom/front panels on your rack.
The psu/cpu and the other fan motors are less protected against dust and should be a higher concern then the hdd, in my opinion.

You'll either need a riser card and a different backplate (allowing for horizontal mounted full height cards), the 2212 has two options.
Or look around for low profile cards (you'll get both nic's, gfx cards and the LSI SAS 9211 as low profile cards).
I'm going to use all these products as low profile cards in my chassis.
MD2 low-profile form-factor design is the clue to look for.

Hopes this helps, and I'll be back with more info as soon as I get the rack and chassis.
And I'll try to answer any questions you've got.
 

cpotter638

New Member
Dec 6, 2011
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Hi cpotter638,

I'll return with this info as soon as I get the 4postrack25 and the 2212, your rack should be ok as long as it follows the eia-rs-310c/d standard.
Verified with manual. Rack is EIA compliant. Based on what you've read, think I'm OK to order the Norco 2122? Or better to wait until you get yours?


Noise shouldn't be a problem, the 2U size psu has large enough fans to not generate high pitch noise and the chassis fans you can replace if needed.
I can comment on the real noise level of the psu fans and chassis fans when I get it.
You have suggestions for a 2U PSU? What did you end up getting?

For the cpu you can take a look at these two alternatives? (I couldn't find the first one here in Norway so I went with the second one, on an Intel Core i7 2600).
http://akasa.co.uk/update.php?tpl=p...lers&type_sub=Low Profile&model=AK-CC7118HP01
http://akasa.co.uk/update.php?tpl=p...lers&type_sub=Low Profile&model=AK-CCE-7106HP
Currently, I'm favoring the Supermicro X9SCM-F MOBO. From what I've read, Supermicro boards just work well. Main advantages of X9SCM-F is ability to use ECC Ram & IPMI 2.0 support. ECC RAM may not be that advantageous given this is just a home NAS; however, it surely doesn't hurt and cost is not terrible. Biggest problem - in order to take full advantage of ECC RAM, I have to jump to a Xeon processor which is more processor than I need, comes at a cost of $239, and has increased energy consumption (max TDP of 80W). If I can live without the benefits of ECC RAM, I could scale down the processor (to a Celeron for example) and drop the CPU cost to around $60. I'm torn with this decision. I guess it all comes down to - how much benefit is ECC RAM for my setup? Thanks for the advice re: CPU fan.


Hard drives are closed so I wouldn't be too concerned with dust as long as you have side/top/bottom/front panels on your rack.
The psu/cpu and the other fan motors are less protected against dust and should be a higher concern then the hdd, in my opinion.
Rack is somewhat "open". No front or back panel. Given this, is dust going to be a major problem with the RPC-2212? Enough of a problem to switch to Lian Li or Fractal XL case? I would guess I'm probably still OK with the RPC-2212, but dont' know for sure.

You'll either need a riser card and a different backplate (allowing for horizontal mounted full height cards), the 2212 has two options.
Or look around for low profile cards (you'll get both nic's, gfx cards and the LSI SAS 9211 as low profile cards).
I'm going to use all these products as low profile cards in my chassis.
MD2 low-profile form-factor design is the clue to look for.
You relieved a lot of my concerns with the RPC-2212 with your comments re: riser card and / or low profile cards. For my setup, MOBO has dual intel NIC onboard. MOBO also has onboard video. Won't need the LSI card to start as MOBO has 4x Sata2 & 2x Sata3. Would only be needed if/when I upgrade to 12 total hard drives.

Hopes this helps, and I'll be back with more info as soon as I get the rack and chassis.
And I'll try to answer any questions you've got.
Your comments helped a lot. Thanks!
 

Tun

New Member
Nov 20, 2011
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I can't tell you what to do, but I can provide you with all the information that I got so that you'll be able to take your own choices.
Today the tracking of my norco-rpc2212 from the norco European distributor (ri-vier.nl) was sent back from customs in northern Germany, to ri-vier as far as I can tell from the tracking link (destination changed from NO to NL and the gods is going the same route back as it took to Flensburg in northern Germany).
Sorry to say but that just p. me off and I don't know when I'll be able to get the norco rpc-2212 chassis.

EDIT
I got a reply this morning stating that I should get the 2212 in about 5 business days.
So I figure I'll get it around the 16.december.
(end of edit)

On my request when in doubt about the fitting of the chassis in a standard rack, ri-vier gave me this answer.
I can't see a firm belief on this answer but I took the chance and ordered it.

Reaction of Norco USA:
====
Our cases are not too wide. They are standard size that can fit in
standard 19 inch rack.

Some customers's rack cabinets are not standard size (The width between
two posts is less than 17.75 inch), and some rack are old style rack (have
screw hole on the post, don't use cage nut for mounting, cause less
tolerance)
=====

If all tru, we can conclude:
The case should fit on a standard rack with cage nut for mounting.
That last part there, "if all tru" is from ri-vier.nl

The other vital part for me beeing able to test and report back to you about how this all would fit, is the 4postrack25, also ordered from the Netherlands.
This time from compatible.eu, the european distributor of startech.
Since Norway is not a member of the EU the order must be manually handled, and thing seems to take weeks for them to get things done.
I had high hopes that this would be here over this weekend, but yesterday I got this from them:

Sorry for delay. I just got news from warehouse there was delay in processing orders.
I’ll update you shortly.
All I can say now is that I'm waiting, and waiting, and as soon as I get everything I'll post back with information about how well things fit together.


Regarding noise and the 2U PSU, at the moment I'll just use the one provided with the norco rpc-2212.
It was a Seasonic EPS SS-520H (520W) modular.

The dust problem is hard to comment on since I don't know how harsh the environment is where you'll be placing the rack.
At least, don't put the chassis in the bottom of the rack.
And look after it to see how things end up, if you see too much dust inside I would relocate the rack to another place.

I'll be back with an update on the norco chassis and the 4postrack25 as soon as I get feedback from the two companies I've ordered them from.
 
Last edited:

cpotter638

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Dec 6, 2011
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Sorry for all your troubles obtaining the rack & RPC-2212.


On my request when in doubt about the fitting of the chassis in a standard rack, ri-vier gave me this answer.
I can't see a firm belief on this answer but I took the chance and ordered it.
I agree. From what I've read, the RL-26 rails "should" work. Worse case scenario - I mount on a fixed shelf in the rack.

Regarding noise and the 2U PSU, at the moment I'll just use the one provided with the norco rpc-2212.
It was a Seasonic EPS SS-520H (520W) modular.
Unless I'm looking at things wrong, everyplace I've found to order the RPC-2212 - the 2212 comes WITHOUT a PSU (at least in the U.S.)

As such, I'd have to find a compatible PSU. I haven't searched extensively yet; however, the 2212 only takes 2U PSU (not standard PSU). This significantly limits options. So much so, I'm contemplating moving to a Norco 4U case (which takes a standard PSU).

Have any suggestions for a 2U PSU? I know very little re: PSU's. From what little I've read, I was thinking about something energy effecient without breaking the bank (perhaps "gold rated"). I'll do some research, but at this point, don't even know what wattage I need. I'm fine finding a PSU that can handle the 6 current drives and upgrading if/when I bump up to 12 drives.

Thanks again for all the help.
 

cpotter638

New Member
Dec 6, 2011
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Planned equipment:
  • Case: Norco RPC-2212 case
  • MOBO: Supermicro X9SCM-F
  • CPU: Intel E3-1230
  • Memory: 2x Crucial 4Gb DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered
  • Hard drives:
Initial setup - 6x Seagate 2.0Tb Barracuda Green
Potential expansion - Add 6x additional Tb drives​



I saw 2U PSU options previously on Newegg. However:
  • I am not familiar with server brands
  • I don't know suggested PSU size. For what its worth, I tried the "online calculators". These were all over the map. One estimated 500W and the other estimated 250W. Both estimates include only 6 hard drives.
  • There is very little feedback for Newegg server PSU.

Assuming I go with the RPC-2212 case, does anyone:
  • Have a recommended 2U PSU wattage?
  • Have a specific recommendation on a PSU that will work with the RPC-2212?
Thanks again for the help.
 

Tun

New Member
Nov 20, 2011
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Thanks, It's on its way again now and I should have it by friday.
I ordered some cables from LSI, friday evening from San Jose, CA and last night they were in Norway (I should have them by the end of the day). That's how things are supposed to work!
No words yet on the 4postrack25 other than I should have it before christmas.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the chassis came with the PSU pre-mounted, it was an option on the webshop to include the Seasonic PSU (one of two options) when I bought it.

When choosing a PSU you'll most likely want to check that it can be used with your motherboard.
Besides that it fits the chassis you'll want it to fit the powersockets on the motherboard (20 or 24 pins) and also if it has the right number of pins for the CPU power pins (EPS 12v).
I think this is 8 pins in most cases, and the PSU needs one for each CPU.

Also, in a 4U, not all ATX PSU's are recomended due to the fact that the fan points in the wrong direction.
You'll want one that push the air out of the chassis on the back, and not one which blows over the motherboard, or stright into the chassis side wall.

I'm not sure how large your PSU should be, but you can't go wrong with too much power. It will only use how much the components needs.
The Seasonic EPS SS-520H (520W) modular, that I'm getting should be enough for your setup, given that it has the right pins for your motherboard (you'll have to check the usermanual for you motherboard).
I'm using this link to calculate what PSU I need, with your PCU and 6 drives I ended up below 400W.
http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/Power
 

Tun

New Member
Nov 20, 2011
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I know you went with the 4U chassis, but if anyone searches for the answer I thought I'll paste my last reply to this here as well.

Merry Christmas.

Just a short note to confirm that the Norco RPC-2212 with the new RL-26 rails fits the StarTech 4POSTRACK25.

It was confusing when the rails didn't look at all like the rest of the RL-26 seen on the web.
And the little knob to press to release is lokated (and designed) in another way, just look carefully and you'll find it.
Tip: Slide the rails all the way out and you'll see it in the middle of the inner part.
Also, mount the end bracket of the rails flat on the inside of the rack, not overlapping anything (or else it will be too narrow to slide in the chassis).

Pictures can be taken later if you want to see the new rails and how they are mounted to fit the rack.

Not easy to do this with only two hands, I'll advice anyone to get some help.
Or best of all, any clue on what "snap on" rails that would fit the norco chassis?
 

cpotter638

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Dec 6, 2011
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Tun,

Glad to hear you were able to rack mount the RPC-2212. Initially, I wanted to go with the 2212; however, I think I read too many posts. In general, people were complaning about the noise with the Norco units (even being able to hear them on the main floor with unit mounted in the basement). As such, several people have chnaged the 80mm fans to 120mm fans. This is not possible (to my knowledge) on the 2212 due to 2U size. As such, I went with the 4220. I built my NAS this weekend. I'm impressed with the Norco 4220. The noise is no where near what I expected. I probably would have been fine with the 2212.


I put racking on the back burner. Wanted to hear your experience. I communicated some with Norco via email, but it was difficult to get detailed answers to my questions. Here are my questions re: racking:
  • My rack meets EIA standards. Per rack company, usable depth is 25.5". As such, Norco said the RL-26 rails would be too long. They recommended going with the RL-20 rails. I measured the "usable depth". This looks to be almost exactly 26". So I think the RL-26 should work. I'll have to make some rack adjustments prior to purchase to 100% verify the 26" usable depth. Do you have an EXACT measurement for the length of the RL-26 rails you received? I assume it is 26", but want to verify.
  • Where did you order your rails from? Norco? Or somewhere else. If you ordered from somewhere else, where did the rails orginate? Are they made by Norco? Are they ball-bearing rails or just 2 pieces of metal with lots of grease (as some have suggested)?
  • Once you racked your chassis, how far can you pull it out? All the way out? Or only 2/3 like was previously discussed?
  • How are rails mounted? I assume via screws as well as tab near front of chassis. Some have complained that rails have no support at front of chassis (some chassis do not have this tab that fits into rack). My chassis does have this tab.

Would love to see photos demonstrating your racking when you have time. Thanks again for all of the valuable info.

Chad
 

Tun

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Nov 20, 2011
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Noise:
The PSU is a bit high pitched noise from and no fan controll to adjust it.
The CPU fan is at level 4 in the bios at default (from 1 to 9, where 9 is full speed).
This makes it not audible against the PSU fan, and keeps the CPU temp at 33 when idle.
The 4 chassis fans makes "wosh" sounds if that makes any sense?
Default there's no fan control for these either, but, the socket on the fan printboard they're attached to is a 3 pin fan connector.
I guess I can buy a cable to connect them to the motherboard to spin them down a bit.

Anyway, I put the lid on and put it away in my "server room" in the open rack.
It's 1 meter from the door.
With me sitting another 5 meters away, and not able to hear it at all. (And my hearing is very good).
If I stand next to the door, and listen for it, I can hear it, but it will never bother me.
I would have no trouble sleeping in the room next to the one I keep the server in.
It's a normal door, no soundproofing.

That said, this would be a no go if I had to work with it in the same room, so there IS enough noise from it to be bothered if you use it that way.

There's no room for 120mm fans in the chassis. And I've not looked for replacement of the four chassis fans either, but looks like it's posible.
If there were any component that I would have done something to, it would be the fan in the PSU.

Moving on to the racking questions.
I'm going to move it to another level, and then I'll be able to take some usable pictures.
But I can give you some numbers.

The front opening of the rack is 45cm (17.7inches).
To be able to slide in the 2212 I had to mount the rails precisely or else it wouldn't slide in.

I mounted the side arms to the rack so that my usable depth is 80.8cm (31.8 inches).
The RL-26 I got had no problem with that, and would also be ok if I extended the sidearms all the way to get the racks max depth. (a couple more inches at most)
How "small" I can make the RL-26 I will have to meassure when I move it in a day or two.
If I have to guess based on how precise I'm able to measure it as it stands, I'll say that the RL-26 at the shortest would be 65cm (25.5inches)
Please, don't trust that number until I can verify it for you!
I guess that Norco is right, but the RL-20 is not supposed to keep a 4U in place?

I ordered from Norco in The Netherlands (ri-vier.nl)
Got very good service from Richard there.
The rails is supposed to be from Norco, not ball-bearing but with grease and in four parts.
One part to mount on the chassis, two parts that slides into eachother with the part on the chassis.
And the last part is the back bracket which is loos so the rails would fit the prefered mounting depth of the rack.
I can take pictures and precise measures of the rails once I move it in a day or two.

I'm not sure if third party rails would fit (mounting holes would fit I guess, but the width of the chassis and so on... I'm not sure).
Would love to be able to use tool-less rails, maybe the supermicro ones will fit?
I have a pair of HP tool less rails here, will try to see if they will fit.

I'm not able to extend the chassis all the way out without removing it from the rails completely.
So for service inside the chassis you'll have to pull it out of the rack.
It's not screwed to the rails so you'll be able to slide it as far out as you please, but it will not support it all the way out so that you can open the chassis.

A picture is worth a tousand words, so I'll come back with pictures for you regarding the rail mountings.
But to give you a clue, look at this picture of the right part of the rack.
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/buynowall_assets/large_images/3397050-3.jpg
The rails are mounted flat to the backside of the holes in the background in the picture.
On this side of the same holes I put the square hole bracked that was with the rails, and two screws to hold it in place.
The chassis is then screwed with 1 screw in the middle hole at the frontmost holes in the picture.
The rails have 3 holes, so if your rack only has one set of mounting holes you can use the middle hole in the rails to fasten the chassis.

Sorry for not having the photos ready yet, I'll see what I can do tomorrow.
But I have to move it (bad planning from my side) so pictures are coming, and better measures of everything.

Sorry for any bad english in the middle of the night here.
 

Patrick

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 21, 2010
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I just ordered 3x RL-26's today. Hoping to get the ball bearing versions but will let you know.
 

cpotter638

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Dec 6, 2011
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See below comments in red.

Noise:
The PSU is a bit high pitched noise from and no fan controll to adjust it.
The CPU fan is at level 4 in the bios at default (from 1 to 9, where 9 is full speed).
This makes it not audible against the PSU fan, and keeps the CPU temp at 33 when idle.
The 4 chassis fans makes "wosh" sounds if that makes any sense?
Default there's no fan control for these either, but, the socket on the fan printboard they're attached to is a 3 pin fan connector.
I guess I can buy a cable to connect them to the motherboard to spin them down a bit.

Anyway, I put the lid on and put it away in my "server room" in the open rack.
It's 1 meter from the door.
With me sitting another 5 meters away, and not able to hear it at all. (And my hearing is very good).
If I stand next to the door, and listen for it, I can hear it, but it will never bother me.
I would have no trouble sleeping in the room next to the one I keep the server in.
It's a normal door, no soundproofing.

That said, this would be a no go if I had to work with it in the same room, so there IS enough noise from it to be bothered if you use it that way.

There's no room for 120mm fans in the chassis. And I've not looked for replacement of the four chassis fans either, but looks like it's posible.
If there were any component that I would have done something to, it would be the fan in the PSU.

Moving on to the racking questions.
I'm going to move it to another level, and then I'll be able to take some usable pictures.
But I can give you some numbers.

The front opening of the rack is 45cm (17.7inches).
To be able to slide in the 2212 I had to mount the rails precisely or else it wouldn't slide in.

I mounted the side arms to the rack so that my usable depth is 80.8cm (31.8 inches).
The RL-26 I got had no problem with that, and would also be ok if I extended the sidearms all the way to get the racks max depth. (a couple more inches at most)
How "small" I can make the RL-26 I will have to meassure when I move it in a day or two.
If I have to guess based on how precise I'm able to measure it as it stands, I'll say that the RL-26 at the shortest would be 65cm (25.5inches)
Please, don't trust that number until I can verify it for you!
Thanks for the verification when you have time.

I guess that Norco is right, but the RL-20 is not supposed to keep a 4U in place?
Supposedly, per Norco.

I ordered from Norco in The Netherlands (ri-vier.nl)
Got very good service from Richard there.
The rails is supposed to be from Norco, not ball-bearing but with grease and in four parts.
One part to mount on the chassis, two parts that slides into eachother with the part on the chassis.
And the last part is the back bracket which is loos so the rails would fit the prefered mounting depth of the rack.
I can take pictures and precise measures of the rails once I move it in a day or two.
Thanks.

I'm not sure if third party rails would fit (mounting holes would fit I guess, but the width of the chassis and so on... I'm not sure).
Would love to be able to use tool-less rails, maybe the supermicro ones will fit?
I haven't looked at these. I'll have to do a search.
I have a pair of HP tool less rails here, will try to see if they will fit.

I'm not able to extend the chassis all the way out without removing it from the rails completely.
So for service inside the chassis you'll have to pull it out of the rack.
It's not screwed to the rails so you'll be able to slide it as far out as you please, but it will not support it all the way out so that you can open the chassis.
That is a bummer. To me - this is the main purpose of the rails. From what I've read, the ball bearing rails allow you to pull the chassis out all the way. However, the ball bearing rails may or may not fit.

A picture is worth a tousand words, so I'll come back with pictures for you regarding the rail mountings.Thanks.
But to give you a clue, look at this picture of the right part of the rack.
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/buynowall_assets/large_images/3397050-3.jpg
The rails are mounted flat to the backside of the holes in the background in the picture.
On this side of the same holes I put the square hole bracked that was with the rails, and two screws to hold it in place.
The chassis is then screwed with 1 screw in the middle hole at the frontmost holes in the picture.
The rails have 3 holes, so if your rack only has one set of mounting holes you can use the middle hole in the rails to fasten the chassis.

Sorry for not having the photos ready yet, I'll see what I can do tomorrow.
But I have to move it (bad planning from my side) so pictures are coming, and better measures of everything.

Sorry for any bad english in the middle of the night here.
No problem. Appreciate the help.
 

cpotter638

New Member
Dec 6, 2011
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I just ordered 3x RL-26's today. Hoping to get the ball bearing versions but will let you know.
Too bad that websites can't actually give you appropriate info. Would be nice to know which rails your getting BEFORE they arrive. Seems like others have had similar problems. I'm curious to know whether or not you are shipped ball bearing rails and if they then fit in a standard rack.
 

Patrick

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Staff member
Dec 21, 2010
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I got the ones that specifically said RL-26 Ball Bearing. They came in and were certainly the ball bearing version. Had no problem at all installing them on the RPC-4220. I haven't tried the other chassis yet. Re-doing all of the floors in the new house over the next 3 days so this is a bit on hold.
 

cpotter638

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Dec 6, 2011
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Patrick - a couple of questions:

How did they mount to the RPC-4220 at the front of the unit? At the front, there is no screw hole, just a tab. Does the tab insert into a slot in the rails you got from Amazon?

Did you then mount the RPC-4220 and rails into your rack (did it fit in your rack)? I have yet to find anyone who has successfully mounted the RPC-4220 with the ball bearing rails. Some have mounted the 4020 successfully as it's a little smaller in width.

If you've successfully mounted the RPC-4220, how far can you pull it out? Far enough to work inside the box reasonably well?

Thanks for the help.
 

Patrick

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 21, 2010
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Basically the installation process of the RPC-4220 was something like (doing this from memory):
1. Take rails apart
2. Screw the chassis side of the rail into the chassis on each side
3. Mount the rail's front and rear by extending the center section to the appropriate length then sandwiching the two plates that came with the rails to the rack posts
4. Make sure everything was aligned/ correct
5. Pick up RPC-4220 and mate ends of rails
6. Push RPC-4220 back into the rack, making sure rails click into place joining them
7. Check everything works.

On how far it comes out, I would say it comes out far enough for most applications. Lifting the chassis isn't that bad though since it is not that heavy (for me) if it ever came to that. Not sure I tried pulling it out to get the rear fans and CPU heatsink so I do not know about this just yet.

I could probably measure this by Monday. Have not tried the RPC-4224 yet (still at old house)