Performance diff: J1800 vs J1900 vs N3050 vs N3150 vs 3205U vs 3755U on Dual LAN NIC boxes?

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xbliss

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As follow up to:
Low cost Tiny Box/ Mini ITX Mobo + CPU/ SoC choices: Sophos 9.x UTM Home & its Updates for 2/3 yrs

Performance diff: J1800 vs J1900 vs N3050 vs N3150 vs 3205U vs 3755U on Dual LAN NIC boxes?

PS: Usage 1-3 VMs running Firewall/ UTM / Some Small utilities in VM - More inclined towards a ready Mini Box v/s the ITX Mobo

How/ do they/ would they compare? I did google and see some CPU benchmarking sites and the gap doesnt seem much - from what I can understand.

Is there something I am not seeing?

Also, would the RAM memory from one work on the other? forward or reverse compatibility? - if the Hz are take care of .. posted/ asked here?
DDR3: 1333 vs 1600 vs 1866 vs 2133

(Would voltage be an issue?)
 
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Keljian

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Question I have is how much you're running on them, then N3050 and N3150 wouldn't be my choice for this use, the J1900 should be the fastest of the low end. The 3xxx are in another league.
 

xbliss

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Question I have is how much you're running on them, then N3050 and N3150 wouldn't be my choice for this use, the J1900 should be the fastest of the low end. The 3xxx are in another league.
I am confused.. J1900 vs the quad N3xxxx which is better? Which is in a better league?
 

xbliss

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3xxxU should be "in another league"
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I understand the phrase.. the question is which is better/ faster? As when I looked up only CPU comparatives they are kind of shoulder to shoulder.
 

Keljian

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Single threaded performance of the 3xxxU series will be faster because it's based on the faster architecture (higher power/faster execution). Question is - as mentioned - what are you intending on running?
 

xbliss

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Single threaded performance of the 3xxxU series will be faster because it's based on the faster architecture (higher power/faster execution). Question is - as mentioned - what are you intending on running?
What about Multi threading? Dont the 3xxx series also have Dual Core & Quad core like the 1800/1900 series?
PS: Intend to run (preferably in VM) Sophos/ Untangle + A Radius Manager to handle Wireless (usually part of tiny Router OS etc)
Dual NIC
 

Keljian

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In terms of passmark, here are some stats:
1,884 - J1900
1,702- 3755u

If you divide it up by 4 and 2 to get single core results, respectively you get
471 -J1900 (in practice more like 530 due to turbo)
851 - 3755u (in practice it is more like 930 due to turbo)

Therefore, the 3755u is nearly 50% faster in single threaded apps while consuming roughly the same power.

Which is better depends on how multithreaded the software you're planning on running is. If it's highly multithreaded, like the linux kernel, then the J1900 will be better suited, if it is poorly mulithreaded, like snort or openSSL then you're better off with the 3755u.

Personally I'd prefer an i3 over either of these. An i3-6320 will be approximately 4x as fast as either of them at peak, and not consume much more power as it will be idling most of the time.
 
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xbliss

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In terms of passmark, here are some stats:
1,884 - J1900
1,702- 3755u

If you divide it up by 4 and 2 to get single core results, respectively you get
471 -J1900 (in practice more like 530 due to turbo)
851 - 3755u (in practice it is more like 930 due to turbo)

Therefore, the 3755u is nearly 50% faster in single threaded apps while consuming roughly the same power.

Which is better depends on how multithreaded the software you're planning on running is. If it's highly multithreaded, like the linux kernel, then the J1900 will be better suited, if it is poorly mulithreaded, like snort or openSSL then you're better off with the 3755u.

Personally I'd prefer an i3 over either of these. An i3-6320 will be approximately 4x as fast as either of them at peak, and not consume much more power as it will be idling most of the time.
Since I was looking for small Mini PC Barebone Boxes with 2 x GigaLAN, there were 2 good options I found:
Chinese AliExpress box: J1900 - Kind of older and going away?.. - Intend to order one of these as well.
A Zotac Nano box: N3150 - Newer boxes are showing up with this instead of J1900 - I ordered one of these. Just got it.
(How would these 2 compare?)

PS: How would I upgrade to an i3 - Arent all of the above SoCs? Also, most places I researched I was told a J1900 has been more than sufficient.. and I figure N3150 is a "newer" version of the same?
 

Keljian

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If all you are doing is routing, the J1900/N3150 would be sufficient. I run suricata and pfblocker as well as a 30-40Mbit VPN and a few other things. I wouldn't want one of those boxes for this use
 

xbliss

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If all you are doing is routing, the J1900/N3150 would be sufficient. I run suricata and pfblocker as well as a 30-40Mbit VPN and a few other things. I wouldn't want one of those boxes for this use
Interesting. I'm sure the more CPU intensive stuff we run, the more we need.

Lately, I've found some of these 4 / Quad LAN boxes:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019Z8T9J0/
Fanless 4 Lan Mini Pc Q310G4 Specification:
Dimension:187*115*52mm(L*H*W) ( Reference )
Weight:2Kg ( Reference )
Power Consumption:TDP 15W
Onboard CPU:Intel Celeron Processor 3215U (2M Cache, 1.70 GHz, Broadwell)
I'd love to hear more on how/ why & in what SCENARIOs/ Application USAGE the J1900/N3150's would be BETTER / WORSE than the U series ones? PS: You did mention single vs multi threading, but I'm wondering when it comes to a Tiny Network box, where or in what applications would they perform better/ worse?
 

Keljian

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Ok. One key thing that comes to mind is Snort.

Snort is single threaded, thus the faster your snort thread can go, the faster throughput you will be able to achieve.

The N/J series chips will be slower for this than the U chips.
 

wiretap

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Although the chinese mini-pc's are enticing, I would spend a few extra bucks and go with something like a Jetway board that has Intel NIC's. The chinese boards usually have Realtek or something else inferior. If you're going to be running something like a firewall or network monitoring, you'll want a good quality NIC with drivers that are compatible with many distro's of linux right out of the box. Also, if you are looking for VPN use with multiple users, make sure the processor (or integrated one) you choose supports AES-NI for accelerated encryption. Example: NF531 :: JNF531 :: Intel Celeron Braswell N3150 3.5" SBC :: JETWAY COMPUTER CORP.
 
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xbliss

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Although the chinese mini-pc's are enticing, I would spend a few extra bucks and go with something like a Jetway board that has Intel NIC's. The chinese boards usually have Realtek or something else inferior. If you're going to be running something like a firewall or network monitoring, you'll want a good quality NIC with drivers that are compatible with many distro's of linux right out of the box. Also, if you are looking for VPN use with multiple users, make sure the processor (or integrated one) you choose supports AES-NI for accelerated encryption. Example: NF531 :: JNF531 :: Intel Celeron Braswell N3150 3.5" SBC :: JETWAY COMPUTER CORP.
Jetways are too expensive. I just got a zotac nano C1323 for 150/160 all in box with 2 x LAN, WiFi and N3150 with a nice lovely compact box.

Thanks for the insight on the Intel vs Realtek - So far, I've been able to find that the Distros I want to use are supported, and also, I intend to run it under a light weight bare metal VM - Hyper V or similar.

So, which of the listed (in title) SoC's support AES-NI and how can I check for it for SoCs or other processors?
 

wiretap

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You can look on the Intel spec page for each processor to see if it has the AES-NI support. I know the N3150 does.
 

xbliss

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You can look on the Intel spec page for each processor to see if it has the AES-NI support. I know the N3150 does.
Thanks. I still havent been able to get a good comparative between these different Non iCore low cost CPUs/ SoCs :) As they are being chosen on lots of Mini PC boxes for Router/ Firewall/ Appliance OSes/ applications.
 

Cheddoleum

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Jetways are too expensive. I just got a zotac nano C1323 for 150/160 all in box with 2 x LAN, WiFi and N3150 with a nice lovely compact box.
Sorry to ressurrect this older thread but can you possibly clear something up? There's a claim, so far unchallenged by anyone, that the CI323 doesn't support dual-channel despite having dual slots. If true this would be a significant design blunder on Zotac's part, but it wouldn't be the first time. I've written to Zotac to confirm/deny but no response in a week.

I like the Zotac but if it won't do dual channel I might as well spend an additional 60 bucks or so on a Jetway N3160 with its single SODIMM slot and get dual Intel i211 NICs instead of the Realteks. Appreciate it if you can help.
 
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mstone

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Which is better depends on how multithreaded the software you're planning on running is. If it's highly multithreaded, like the linux kernel, then the J1900 will be better suited, if it is poorly mulithreaded, like snort or openSSL then you're better off with the 3755u.
If you're usin openssl for crypto stuff you're probably better off with the N3150 because it's the only one of the three which supports AES-NI.

Personally I'd prefer an i3 over either of these. An i3-6320 will be approximately 4x as fast as either of them at peak, and not consume much more power as it will be idling most of the time.
But the peak TDP is so much higher that it's less comfortable to run it in a mini server. If you don't really need the peak cpu power, there's no point having to build around the cooling requirements of the peak cpu power. The U series skylakes are a better target for this application, IMO, and the i3-6100u would probably be the sweet spot except that I've never seen one on a board as opposed to a prebuilt system like a NUC.

I'd love to hear more on how/ why & in what SCENARIOs/ Application USAGE the J1900/N3150's would be BETTER / WORSE than the U series ones? PS: You did mention single vs multi threading, but I'm wondering when it comes to a Tiny Network box, where or in what applications would they perform better/ worse?
For network stuff I'd probably go with the N3150. If you're doing VPN it's the only one of that bunch to even consider. If you're doing virtualization, the 3755U does vt-d and the others don't, and it does 16G vs 8G RAM. I don't see a reason to get a 3755U at this point over a 3855U except for availability (the 3855U has AES-NI, 32G rather than 16G, and basically the same performance & price as the 3755U).

So, which of the listed (in title) SoC's support AES-NI and how can I check for it for SoCs or other processors?
just google "[model id] ark" to get intel's ARK page for that cpu. AES-NI is one of the features they list.

I like the Zotac but if it won't do dual channel I might as well spend an additional 60 bucks or so on a Jetway N3160 with its single SODIMM slot and get dual Intel i211 NICs instead of the Realteks.
Realtek vs intel really doesn't matter for gigabit ethernet for the kind of systems we're talking about in 2016 (almost 2017).
 
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Cheddoleum

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Realtek vs intel really doesn't matter for gigabit ethernet for the kind of systems we're talking about in 2016 (almost 2017).
It would be easy to rathole on that assertion with duelling anecdata, and that in itself is part of the problem: AFAIK serious solutions providers don't ever specify Realtek, so the quality of information available about them on which to base real-world expectations isn't even comparable. So when the price difference is a few tens of dollars, it's a no-brainer: use the known-good one.
 
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epicurean

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If you're usin openssl for crypto stuff you're probably better off with the N3150 because it's the only one of the three which supports AES-NI.



But the peak TDP is so much higher that it's less comfortable to run it in a mini server. If you don't really need the peak cpu power, there's no point having to build around the cooling requirements of the peak cpu power. The U series skylakes are a better target for this application, IMO, and the i3-6100u would probably be the sweet spot except that I've never seen one on a board as opposed to a prebuilt system like a NUC.



For network stuff I'd probably go with the N3150. If you're doing VPN it's the only one of that bunch to even consider. If you're doing virtualization, the 3755U does vt-d and the others don't, and it does 16G vs 8G RAM. I don't see a reason to get a 3755U at this point over a 3855U except for availability (the 3855U has AES-NI, 32G rather than 16G, and basically the same performance & price as the 3755U).



just google "[model id] ark" to get intel's ARK page for that cpu. AES-NI is one of the features they list.



Realtek vs intel really doesn't matter for gigabit ethernet for the kind of systems we're talking about in 2016 (almost 2017).
Sorry to be a little off topic here, but how important will AES-NI be if there is only only to be 1 VPN to be used once or twice a day between 2 sites?