Onboard LSI3008 -- External HBA -- Storage on 2 Systems?

CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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ASRock D-1541_2T8R, wish it was 208R.

Have an optiplex sff i5-11500.

I wish to eventually have 2x Rosewill 4500U 15 bay 4u rackmount chassis.
I wish for the i5-11500 to be transcoding the plex pool in it's rosewill chassis.

My asrock D-1541 has onboard LSI3008, do I just need like an HP 24 port SAS HBA Controller like the HP 468406-B21 HP 3GB 24BAY SAS EXPANDER CARD

Or will those 2 miniSAS from LSI3008 not give me the full bandwidth?
Would it be better to get a LSI9308-16I ? and have it connected to the HBA on the i5-11500?

Or will my LSI3008 suffice for up to 15 drives in a rosewill4500, but if I am going to have 2x Rosewill 4500, might as well use the LSI9308-16I to make full use of ports on the plex pool and then use the onboard LSI3008 with same case drives?

I am hoping I can use the PCIE4.0X16or 3.0x16 onboard the optiplex 7090 sff for the 24 port HBA for now, but eventually grab a better board for a workstation/server so I can add 10gb etc

If there are more cost effective way to do this if it is even possible please advise!!

Thanks for read and help!
 

CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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What? It comes with 15 drive bays. What are you talking about ?
????
??????
Are you referring to USB bandwidth and shared with harddrives sata/sas??

Are you possibly thinking about the Optiplex? Forget that motherboard insert X motherboard upgrade that works.


I have also considered maybe just one 4500 case or possibly another 2 desktop cases all together. Let's pretend its a "X CASE with support for 12 3.5" HDDS" x2, in that case, how I do this, I have never done anything with LSI,HBA,ETC and I would really hope to avoid buying things and returning them because noone is willing to provide info I would happily pay it forward to 10 other people...
How do I go about this working?
 

bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
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What? It comes with 15 drive bays. What are you talking about ?
????
??????
Are you referring to USB bandwidth and shared with harddrives sata/sas??

Are you possibly thinking about the Optiplex? Forget that motherboard insert X motherboard upgrade that works.


I have also considered maybe just one 4500 case or possibly another 2 desktop cases all together. Let's pretend its a "X CASE with support for 12 3.5" HDDS" x2, in that case, how I do this, I have never done anything with LSI,HBA,ETC and I would really hope to avoid buying things and returning them because noone is willing to provide info I would happily pay it forward to 10 other people...
How do I go about this working?
when i looked up the rosewell on my phone it brought me to some external enclosure. sorry about that .

you can do 8 drives with no expander using 2 of these. https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Internal-SFF-8643-Breakout/dp/B01BW1U2L2
or these
https://www.amazon.com/AdcAudx-SFF-8643-SFF-8482-Mini-Adapter/dp/B09ZLGHZ5S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=D0B1SST6ITDJ&keywords=Mini+SAS+HD+to+sas&qid=1655663098&s=electronics&sprefix=mini+sas+hd+to+sas,electronics,72&sr=1-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUFVCNjVLRVhFMFRZJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzc2NDE2MjRRSFdLVFJQQUlHQyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDkzMTUzMzlVOUtGSkhRNk1ORiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

or you could get an expander card, but those are not cheap so might be best to just get a 2nd 3008 HBA like this https://www.amazon.com/LSI-Broadcom-9300-8i-PCI-Express-Profile/dp/B00DSURZYS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1K4FCMJLZE3ZY&keywords=sas+expander&qid=1655662600&s=electronics&sprefix=sas+expander,electronics,64&sr=1-5

so with your onboard and added hba you could do 16 drives using 4 of the cables i posted above.

if you are set on an expander you could use the card you listed above or use this 12 gig adapter Adaptec AEC-82885T LENOVO 00LF095 36port 12Gbps SAS Expander SAS/SAT Card 760884157350 | eBay with this card you dont need change cables

if you use the hp expander you will lower the bus from 12 gig per port to 6gbs and will need this cable to connect your 3008 to the expander cable (
SFF-8643 to Mini SAS 36Pin SFF-8087
)
. https://www.amazon.com/CableDeconn-3-3FT-SFF-8643-SFF-8087-Internal/dp/B00XDRV0OM/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3OSAH5J2ZCDQS&keywords=hd+sas+to+sas&qid=1655662887&sprefix=hd+sas+to+sas,aps,74&sr=8-3

then these to go from expander to your drives



if using hdd's the 6gb wont be a slowdown for you, but if you ever go to sas ssd's you will want 12gbs
 
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bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
51
12
8
ASRock D-1541_2T8R, wish it was 208R.

Have an optiplex sff i5-11500.

I wish to eventually have 2x Rosewill 4500U 15 bay 4u rackmount chassis.
I wish for the i5-11500 to be transcoding the plex pool in it's rosewill chassis.

My asrock D-1541 has onboard LSI3008, do I just need like an HP 24 port SAS HBA Controller like the HP 468406-B21 HP 3GB 24BAY SAS EXPANDER CARD

Or will those 2 miniSAS from LSI3008 not give me the full bandwidth?
Would it be better to get a LSI9308-16I ? and have it connected to the HBA on the i5-11500?

Or will my LSI3008 suffice for up to 15 drives in a rosewill4500, but if I am going to have 2x Rosewill 4500, might as well use the LSI9308-16I to make full use of ports on the plex pool and then use the onboard LSI3008 with same case drives?

I am hoping I can use the PCIE4.0X16or 3.0x16 onboard the optiplex 7090 sff for the 24 port HBA for now, but eventually grab a better board for a workstation/server so I can add 10gb etc

If there are more cost effective way to do this if it is even possible please advise!!

Thanks for read and help!
the 3008 will handle hard drives just fine.

using an expander card you are effectivly splitting 4x12(1 hdsas cable) =48 Gb/s divided by 15 drives = 3.2 Gb/s per drive (if using 12Gb expander)

plenty fast. for your needs. say a drive is tranfering at 150 MB/s thats effectively 1.2Gb/s

so as you can see with 15 drives u have 3.2Gb avaiable bandwidth but they only really need around 1.5 Gb/s per drive

if using the 6Gb sas expander you effectively drop total bandwidth in half.

The sas expander card I shared allows for up to 4 inputs so if you used 2 hdsas cables to the expander from your 3008 then that would double the 48Gb/s making this box future proof if you ever went to ssds
 
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CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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@bandit8623 Thank you, very very very much ffor your response. I gained exactly what I wanted from it.

I really like the other options you presented as well thank you and thank you for making it work with my specs.

I like this because I kept reading about older than 3008, and was reading that the onboard 3008 COULD potentially handle faster drives /ssds as you mention which I like to have that extra buffer///availability for the future...

I think I am going to rethink how I want to achieve my build but with the LSI-9300-8I (2nd 3008) and then thanks again for that point, i do not want to go from 12gb/s to 6gb/s so I will grab that 12gb expander.

I suppose that technically the 12gb expander could do alot more bare bones mechanical HDDs, in theory right, at least more than 15.. I just need to have a case where I can put a motherboard to which factor I have not determined... (Z490 , Z590 , also Supermicro X12SCA-5 is very interesting, I LOVE my supermicro pfsense board, wish the asrock was supermicro but hey it was cheap and good deal, and would love a board that supports intel 11th gen, and 10th celeron,pentium,i3,i5,i7,i9 w-1200, w-1300) ... that would pootentially allow me to upgrade to a refurb or used W-1200 or W-1300 with an igpu as my plex transcoder in the future when the prices come down...

I dont really think there is a perfect solution right now though. The way intel has laid their products out. 12th gen too bleeding edge, but ECC desirable, DDR5 prices no... 11th gen iGPU very powerful, very powerful transcodes... but hot as a MF. I just happen to have easy access to either an Optiplex SFF 7090 i5-11500 or an Optiplex 5090 i5-11500T.... I am wondering if the T would be worth me looking into if one of my largest goals is to minimize power uue.. .I understand the TDP isnt a gauage 1:1 for that ... and its more complicated... however, at some point that lower clock sped has got to come into factor or does it really just even out at the end?

THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR RESPONSE!!

I am contemplating ways to implement this!!
I am even looking into the possibility of a dual system build such as a Phanteks Enthoo Primo.
I only have a 2 1u network switches and a 1 u pfsense box right now... I dont have to go rack mount, but I do have a ridiculous tool storage thing in my living room I should throw out and put a 15U full frame rolling open rackl next to my desk... The Rosewill 4500 seem so spacy and so many options and nice amount of drives...
I could go with one of their 2U cases as well as the 4U 4500U, with 15 HDD array.
Now though with this new information, I will have maybe need for 4-6 drives with the NAS board, as oppsoed to it being with all thbe transcoding board's case...Ill have both of my onboard sas and using a pcie slot to send a total of 4 mini SAS to the mentioned expander..This leaves room for me to use both of my onboard M.2 NVME slot
As as well as the 2nd pcie 3.0 x 8 for a SSD/SLOG (after I get my last pair of 2x32GB DDR4 2400MHz ECC RDIMM)... So maybe I do something like Rosewill RDV-4000U & RDV-4500U...
thanks again
 
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CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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Now is there a way to Have ASROck TrueNAS + Plex Transcoding System + Pure Storage JBOD Rackmount? This would be desirable as I could have all my 3.5" HDDs in a narrower case... maybe even 450mm deep and I can get a wall mount rack and have fully enclosed and actual temp control etc...I may be mistaken but I may have seen some 4u that may be this short?

And would doing it like I mention above simply mean to have the SAS Expander with the Plex Transcoder have farther reaching connections (down to the next chassis below) ? Is it that simple per say?
 

bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
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im not following your question fully, but this is what i use to do all my loads. SC826BE1C-R920LPB | 2U | Chassis | Products | Super Micro Computer, Inc.
plex
emby
data store

i use hyper-v but any virt works. i personally use a 3108 raid card and have raid 6 arrays. for the os/hypervisor i have that loaded on the 2 - 2.5 inch drives in the back in a raid 1.

1 system so less power usage and less noise.

your proc should be plenty to do everythign you need. PassMark - Intel Core i5-11500 @ 2.70GHz - Price performance comparison

passmark over 17k which means you can transcode a 4k movie down if needed.
most peopel though get 4k in hvec so the file is small enough where you dont need to transcode.
your other option is to get a nvidia gpu to do the transcoding.

also keep in mind that 2u chassis are louder than 4u typically. my supermicro does drop the fans down alot so its not bad. I keep mine in the basement though. if it was in my office it would be too much.
 
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CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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I appear to have been airing some ideas lol.
So I currently have a System on Chip Intel Xeon D-1541 8C/16T 2.3/2.7 (i believe those spec numbers for speed) ASRock D1541DU_2T8R.
I also had access to either i5-11500 or i5-11500T. I really like the ASRock board I feel it is an ideal storage board the amount of things on the darn thing: 2x 10gbe intel x540-t2, 6 sata 3, 2x mini sas LSI3008, 2x m.2,2 x PCIE 3.0 X 8 and one is mechanically 3.0 x 16, ipmi w/ kvm.
but I do not like the idea of all that cpu potentially going to waste on plex. That's why I thought I ought to have an SAS Expander on that system so it could transcode, and possibly even use an i5-11500T rather as it will only be transcoding,,, actually, I will likely use it as my workstation for now, so Ill leave the i5-11500, and get at least 32GB Ram. I just really liked the idea of plex heavy duty offload to an iGPU processor so that the D-1541 can be my truenas host as well as run a couple vms and other services I have been dying to deploy in my home environment.

I like that 2u chassis you linked. I would consider something similiar to that.
 

CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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I am trying to decide on a motherboard for the i5, what is the interface for the 12gb/s sas expander
 

bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
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I appear to have been airing some ideas lol.
So I currently have a System on Chip Intel Xeon D-1541 8C/16T 2.3/2.7 (i believe those spec numbers for speed) ASRock D1541DU_2T8R.
I also had access to either i5-11500 or i5-11500T. I really like the ASRock board I feel it is an ideal storage board the amount of things on the darn thing: 2x 10gbe intel x540-t2, 6 sata 3, 2x mini sas LSI3008, 2x m.2,2 x PCIE 3.0 X 8 and one is mechanically 3.0 x 16, ipmi w/ kvm.
but I do not like the idea of all that cpu potentially going to waste on plex. That's why I thought I ought to have an SAS Expander on that system so it could transcode, and possibly even use an i5-11500T rather as it will only be transcoding,,, actually, I will likely use it as my workstation for now, so Ill leave the i5-11500, and get at least 32GB Ram. I just really liked the idea of plex heavy duty offload to an iGPU processor so that the D-1541 can be my truenas host as well as run a couple vms and other services I have been dying to deploy in my home environment.

I like that 2u chassis you linked. I would consider something similiar to that.
yeah that chassis has the expander built into the drive cage. so that part makes it simple.
 

CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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again thanks for your help...

now would a SAS 9300-16e be able to handle the Adaptec Lenovo 36port 12gb/s SAS Expander Card?
Just want to confirm I am starting to conceptually grasp this LSI stuff.
It says the 9300-16E (e for external so the ports are facing outside of my case so I can route to the other case) , is 12Gb/s SAS 3.0 Compliant having 16 external port and SFF8644 Four (x4) mini SAS.

I found one of these for just under a hundred bucks and thought it was a good deal. I figure that along with the 12gb/s 36 port expander in another system//case, I can have the capacity for a massive amount of drives, leaving the onbord LSI3008 and my onboard 6 Sata3 to make a completely separate storage pool that is non-plex-media in it's own case (the NAS host case)
 

bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
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again thanks for your help...

now would a SAS 9300-16e be able to handle the Adaptec Lenovo 36port 12gb/s SAS Expander Card?
Just want to confirm I am starting to conceptually grasp this LSI stuff.
It says the 9300-16E (e for external so the ports are facing outside of my case so I can route to the other case) , is 12Gb/s SAS 3.0 Compliant having 16 external port and SFF8644 Four (x4) mini SAS.

I found one of these for just under a hundred bucks and thought it was a good deal. I figure that along with the 12gb/s 36 port expander in another system//case, I can have the capacity for a massive amount of drives, leaving the onbord LSI3008 and my onboard 6 Sata3 to make a completely separate storage pool that is non-plex-media in it's own case (the NAS host case)
9300-16e has the external sas connectors. you want a 8i or 16i card if you want that 9300 to connect internally. if you want to route outside the case then back to inside another case you will need adapters to go back to SFF-8643 from SFF-8644

if you want external i feel the 16e is overkill unless you really need that many lanes.
go with the 9300-8e i think its quite a bit cheaper. that gives you 2 x4 connectors.

you may want to look at an expansion unit with a built in expander. example

HP 3PAR StoreServ M6720

this would save you so much headache. there are newer enclosures but they jump in price
 

CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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ok im thrown off again slighly, aplogies.
i want to use the Adaptec Expander bcause I want a different system then my TrueNAS host to be transcoding. So I would put the above ADAPTEC 12GB/S 36 PORT SAS EXPANDER IN THE SYSTEM WITH THE TRANSCODING CPU.

Then, would I NOT want an "E" card such as LSI 9300-8E as I am connecting to the transcoding box?
Also, noticed you linked $200 amazon for this card, is it bad idea to look at ebay?

oh and could I fit a motherboard and system in the HP 3PAR STONESERV M6720?
I cant seem to find a picture

thanks
 

bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
51
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ok im thrown off again slighly, aplogies.
i want to use the Adaptec Expander bcause I want a different system then my TrueNAS host to be transcoding. So I would put the above ADAPTEC 12GB/S 36 PORT SAS EXPANDER IN THE SYSTEM WITH THE TRANSCODING CPU.

Then, would I NOT want an "E" card such as LSI 9300-8E as I am connecting to the transcoding box?
Also, noticed you linked $200 amazon for this card, is it bad idea to look at ebay?

oh and could I fit a motherboard and system in the HP 3PAR STONESERV M6720?
I cant seem to find a picture

thanks
the in ports on the adaptec card are internal ports. i dont believe you can use the external port on that card. (i could be wrong)

so you could run a long internal cable and bring through a pci open slot and connect internally. but those cables are limted in length.

i am still a bit confused on your planned setup so i apologize.

ebay is just fine. i was just using amazon because i found the pn i wanted
 

CHANABRA

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Dec 26, 2021
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system a true nas
system b cpu that offloads plex transcoding

i wish to have my "media" pool showe up natively on a second system, but still be apart of the main nas.
it was to my knowledge you use a sas expander on the host and a HBA on the system you wish to add the storage to.

so in my case asrock xeon d-1541 ---- w/ sas expander - this is my truenas host and has 2 pools, the 15 possible drives available in the case for the non media pool as well as the all the drives below
second system below on rack w/ i5-11500 w/ 12G/BS HBA --- this is my plex transcode and offload so my D-1541 can do truenas and host other services i have wished to have for a long time. its my understandign it is possible for the "media pool" on this system to show natively on both systems, allowing the i5-11500 to transcode the media for the Plex Player's request as well as "update library when a change is detected which you cannot do when storage is networked".
 

bandit8623

Member
May 25, 2021
51
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system a true nas
system b cpu that offloads plex transcoding

i wish to have my "media" pool showe up natively on a second system, but still be apart of the main nas.
it was to my knowledge you use a sas expander on the host and a HBA on the system you wish to add the storage to.

so in my case asrock xeon d-1541 ---- w/ sas expander - this is my truenas host and has 2 pools, the 15 possible drives available in the case for the non media pool as well as the all the drives below
second system below on rack w/ i5-11500 w/ 12G/BS HBA --- this is my plex transcode and offload so my D-1541 can do truenas and host other services i have wished to have for a long time. its my understandign it is possible for the "media pool" on this system to show natively on both systems, allowing the i5-11500 to transcode the media for the Plex Player's request as well as "update library when a change is detected which you cannot do when storage is networked".
i guess i dont understand why you would want to have 2 systems when 1 can do it all. your i5-11500 is powerful enough to do both. the onboard gpu can transcode and the cpu part can handle the rest.

if you want to seperate things .virtualize.

"update library when a change is detected which you cannot do when storage is networked". <-- not sure what you mean here. a network share will update just like a local hard would.

example my system has a folder i share with correct permission. plex has constant access to that folder and updates it. it can be over the network or on the system itself. the only time there may be a negetive with over the network is speed (1GBE vs 10gbe) but nic cards are reasonable now. unless you are taking a large iso file and going from 1 system to the other 1GBE works for 99% of things just takes a tad longer
 
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